So they banned the two biggest benefits for the big bad deck, and then banned two cards to tone down the deck that would have risen up. I think I have to applaud WotC and their foresight.
Attune and Rogue I saw coming, but not the red ones, especially Ferocidon! I just opened one last night. Was it that overwhelming? As far as I know (haven't played Standard in the past month) it was a sideboard card.
Can't tell if half of these comments are sarcasm or not. Meta was stale, they made a choice that will hopefully benefit it. Everybody assumed Attune would get banned and everybody said RamRed needed a good hiding to keep it in line too. I personally expected Attune and Hazoret to get banned. Not that I play standard anymore anyway, this crap has been on repeat for years.
those mono red bans were a bit random imo, but attune and refiner getting banned is great news!
both those cards give just a bit too much value because of the energy stapled on. a 3 mana 3/2 that draws a card is a very good rate, but when you add energy on top of that rogue refiner is almost 2.5 cards for just one creature. similarly, attune is probably 1.5 cards for a card.
interested to see how energy evolves from here. it certainly isn't dead. back to the winding constrictor plan i suspect. black green may be da wae going forward.
i had been avoiding standard like the plague since playing against these two decks over and over is not super fun, but i will definitely be giving it a go once these bans are in effect.
another thing i find interesting is that ian duke wrote that article on the mothership site. didn't he head the design for kaladesh block? i have heard people calling for him to be fired based on the damage that block has done to standard. i don't think i want to see that exactly, but i wouldn't mind hearing something like 'yeah i headed kaladesh and i said okay to a lot of things that were ultimately bad for standard/the game'.
I mean these bannings are correct but Wizards really needs to fix whatever is going wrong behind the curtens, standard bannings used to happen maybe every 5 years, now they seem to be happening every 6 months
It seems silly to have come this far. People didn't like a combo on combo metagame, so everything better than Energy kept getting banned. Copycat, Emrakul, Marvel, Copter... and now a bunch of dorks that turn sideways and a card that fetches a land for G.
I mean, kudos to Wizards for aggressively using the ban-hammer to improve their game. That's cool. I drastically prefer this to printing weak, safe cards or issuing errata. Still, one has to wonder whether they would have been better served by letting a combo metagame exist rather than starting down this silly road.
Maybe I am getting old, but I remembered nothing getting banned like ever. Jace and SFM being the exception. Member Delver? Member Devotion?
I don't mind spending money on magic, even though I think they release way too much product nowadays. But i've gotten so many decks banned over the past few years that it's not spending money, it's wasting money now. Besides that, I liked playing alot of those decks.
I make oke'ish money, but to keep up with the crazy rollercoaster that is competitive magic 2k18 you have to sell your house
It's pretty crazy that Modern, not Standard is the format of stability these days.
I mean these bannings are correct but Wizards really needs to fix whatever is going wrong behind the curtens, standard bannings used to happen maybe every 5 years, now they seem to be happening every 6 months
Basically, what happened is their lead developer had an idea. They could make their themes work in sets if they would just stop printing answers to players doing cool things. So they spent years pushing threats and making answers weaker and weaker. They've started to reverse that philosophy now as it's really hit them hard but it will take a while before they realize answers need to be better than threats again. Their lead developer is a dumbass btw, he thought the answer to Affinity standard was that they should have removed Shatter from the format so that quirky artifact decks could rise up and fight it unopposed.
These bans will probably turn Temur Energy back into Gruul Pummeler but the loss of Ramunap Ruins isn't going to hinder that deck, other than necessitating a name change.
I mean these bannings are correct but Wizards really needs to fix whatever is going wrong behind the curtens, standard bannings used to happen maybe every 5 years, now they seem to be happening every 6 months
Basically, what happened is their lead developer had an idea. They could make their themes work in sets if they would just stop printing answers to players doing cool things. So they spent years pushing threats and making answers weaker and weaker. They've started to reverse that philosophy now as it's really hit them hard but it will take a while before they realize answers need to be better than threats again. Their lead developer is a dumbass btw, he thought the answer to Affinity standard was that they should have removed Shatter from the format so that quirky artifact decks could rise up and fight it unopposed.
While I want to distance myself from your tone a little bit, you're right in that the current issue is how horrid answers are.
Mind you, of course, that a few enablers have been depowered recently (mana dorks), and that our threats aren't near Titan levels. Titans were just at a time where answers were overpowered, too.
There should be some reasonable middle ground between Doom Blade and Murder, and there have been in the past. Very few threats are actually on Titan levels; they just need to find a good spot for answers too.
1) Banning Attune seems like it'd be enough to make energy "just another deck," given that their own data shows mainly 52-48 or worse matchups. They wanted to mostly get rid of a deck that people are pretty sick of.
2) Ferocidon is the most random ban in history. A 3-mana 3/3 that offers no value does not scream "BAN THIS RIGHT NOW!" Banning Ruins might have been enough, but I can understand those win percentages scaring them.
Oh my god, how many banned cards there in standard now? Haven't we broke a new record?
Nope. Back in original Mirrodin standard we got Ravager-Affinity banned for 8 cards, plus Skullclamp made the format a 9-banned-cards Standard
Don't know if Urza block beat that, wasn't playing at the time.
While I want to distance myself from your tone a little bit, you're right in that the current issue is how horrid answers are.
How are answers horrid? Unlicensed Disintegration destroys any creature except Hazoret or the random Rhonas that someone might be playing while Vraska's Contempt deals with anything that isn't hexproof--we might see some more Jade Guardians being played because of extra Merfolk support but there aren't many Carnage Tyrants running around. Some decks even have answers before the cards are even played--do you know how difficult it is for a God-Pharaoh's Gift deck to win after a turn 3 Dispossess has exiled all copies of the artifact? They might as well scoop.
Anyway...back to the ban announcement...Standard will become Pummeler and RDW, both of which can attain victory on turn 4 without answers in hand.
What strikes me as hilarious is the fact that they managed to outright ban 9 (nine) cards in Standard in just one year. In Modern they banned 8 (eight) cards in three years and people still think that THAT is a ban happy format.
The way I see it they chickened out. They should have had the stones to see how the new cards will influence the format first before they decided to go on a banning spree, and this is the SECOND time they did so. What's the point of hyping new sets if you're just going to ban cards the new set was supposed to outshine? What's done is done however, and we better pray to Finkel-All-Mighty they did this right, because if they didn't and then end up having to ban cards AGAIN they might as well put a fork in Standard as a format.
Long story short, this announcement stinks.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
In my dream, the world had suffered a terrible disaster. A black haze shut out the sun, and the darkness was alive with the moans and screams of wounded people. Suddenly, a small light glowed. A candle flickered into life, symbol of hope for millions. A single tiny candle, shining in the ugly dark. I laughed and blew it out.
Many thanks to HotP Studios. Special thanks to DNC for this great sig.
But, still, better this than they print blocks like Theros / Homelands / Masqueses / Kamigawa only so that they avoid having to ban anything. Risk taking is good for all eternal formats.
While I want to distance myself from your tone a little bit, you're right in that the current issue is how horrid answers are.
Mind you, of course, that a few enablers have been depowered recently (mana dorks), and that our threats aren't near Titan levels. Titans were just at a time where answers were overpowered, too.
There should be some reasonable middle ground between Doom Blade and Murder, and there have been in the past. Very few threats are actually on Titan levels; they just need to find a good spot for answers too.
I don't play Standard, but my understanding was that the energy burn spell was really strong. That's a good answer, but one answer doesn't make a format safe. To make a format safe you need various degrees of safety valves, and lots of good removal. Essentially, answers should consistently be better than threats. It's just going to take time for them to get back to the proper balance. They still seem to think 3 mana answers are appropriate, and they aren't.
I think the problem is that Wizards is scared to do this, as so many of the mechanics they've printed over the last couple years literally fall apart and are unplayable in the face of good removal.
Attune with Aether is banned.
Rogue Refiner is banned.
Rampaging Ferocidon is banned.
Ramunap Ruins is banned.
WBC Eldrazi & Taxes CBW
UR Keep on Cantripin' (UR Phoenix) RU
WU Surprise! It's not UW Control! (UW Midrange) UW
BG The Rock, Straight BG
U Mono-Blue Fish U
RBW Mardu Pyromancer BWR
RG Rabble! Rabble! (GR Blood Moon Aggro) GR
Legacy
W Death & Taxes W
Modern:R 8Whack R|W White Knights W
Scarab God mid-range/control wrecked my merfolk deck the other day, the deck seemed real good.
both those cards give just a bit too much value because of the energy stapled on. a 3 mana 3/2 that draws a card is a very good rate, but when you add energy on top of that rogue refiner is almost 2.5 cards for just one creature. similarly, attune is probably 1.5 cards for a card.
interested to see how energy evolves from here. it certainly isn't dead. back to the winding constrictor plan i suspect. black green may be da wae going forward.
i had been avoiding standard like the plague since playing against these two decks over and over is not super fun, but i will definitely be giving it a go once these bans are in effect.
another thing i find interesting is that ian duke wrote that article on the mothership site. didn't he head the design for kaladesh block? i have heard people calling for him to be fired based on the damage that block has done to standard. i don't think i want to see that exactly, but i wouldn't mind hearing something like 'yeah i headed kaladesh and i said okay to a lot of things that were ultimately bad for standard/the game'.
Blue black midrange? Or was there a third color? I'd love to hear about what that deck has...
At this point im brewing black white control... but I might have to go esper because scarab god is too good to ignore
I mean, kudos to Wizards for aggressively using the ban-hammer to improve their game. That's cool. I drastically prefer this to printing weak, safe cards or issuing errata. Still, one has to wonder whether they would have been better served by letting a combo metagame exist rather than starting down this silly road.
It's pretty crazy that Modern, not Standard is the format of stability these days.
Basically, what happened is their lead developer had an idea. They could make their themes work in sets if they would just stop printing answers to players doing cool things. So they spent years pushing threats and making answers weaker and weaker. They've started to reverse that philosophy now as it's really hit them hard but it will take a while before they realize answers need to be better than threats again. Their lead developer is a dumbass btw, he thought the answer to Affinity standard was that they should have removed Shatter from the format so that quirky artifact decks could rise up and fight it unopposed.
Seven. Aetherworks Marvel, Smuggler's Copter, and Felidar Guardian in addition to the four listed today.
These bans will probably turn Temur Energy back into Gruul Pummeler but the loss of Ramunap Ruins isn't going to hinder that deck, other than necessitating a name change.
While I want to distance myself from your tone a little bit, you're right in that the current issue is how horrid answers are.
Mind you, of course, that a few enablers have been depowered recently (mana dorks), and that our threats aren't near Titan levels. Titans were just at a time where answers were overpowered, too.
There should be some reasonable middle ground between Doom Blade and Murder, and there have been in the past. Very few threats are actually on Titan levels; they just need to find a good spot for answers too.
2) Ferocidon is the most random ban in history. A 3-mana 3/3 that offers no value does not scream "BAN THIS RIGHT NOW!" Banning Ruins might have been enough, but I can understand those win percentages scaring them.
3) Control will be very, very good.
Hopefully Dominaria recovers, as this is the first set with Play Design input.
Nope. Back in original Mirrodin standard we got Ravager-Affinity banned for 8 cards, plus Skullclamp made the format a 9-banned-cards Standard
Don't know if Urza block beat that, wasn't playing at the time.
How are answers horrid? Unlicensed Disintegration destroys any creature except Hazoret or the random Rhonas that someone might be playing while Vraska's Contempt deals with anything that isn't hexproof--we might see some more Jade Guardians being played because of extra Merfolk support but there aren't many Carnage Tyrants running around. Some decks even have answers before the cards are even played--do you know how difficult it is for a God-Pharaoh's Gift deck to win after a turn 3 Dispossess has exiled all copies of the artifact? They might as well scoop.
Anyway...back to the ban announcement...Standard will become Pummeler and RDW, both of which can attain victory on turn 4 without answers in hand.
The way I see it they chickened out. They should have had the stones to see how the new cards will influence the format first before they decided to go on a banning spree, and this is the SECOND time they did so. What's the point of hyping new sets if you're just going to ban cards the new set was supposed to outshine? What's done is done however, and we better pray to Finkel-All-Mighty they did this right, because if they didn't and then end up having to ban cards AGAIN they might as well put a fork in Standard as a format.
Long story short, this announcement stinks.
Many thanks to HotP Studios. Special thanks to DNC for this great sig.
But, still, better this than they print blocks like Theros / Homelands / Masqueses / Kamigawa only so that they avoid having to ban anything. Risk taking is good for all eternal formats.
I don't play Standard, but my understanding was that the energy burn spell was really strong. That's a good answer, but one answer doesn't make a format safe. To make a format safe you need various degrees of safety valves, and lots of good removal. Essentially, answers should consistently be better than threats. It's just going to take time for them to get back to the proper balance. They still seem to think 3 mana answers are appropriate, and they aren't.
I think the problem is that Wizards is scared to do this, as so many of the mechanics they've printed over the last couple years literally fall apart and are unplayable in the face of good removal.