There's a slight hitch in the ruling being 1:1 with the other 'enters the battlefield' rulings. They don't:
If Scorched Ruins would enter the battlefield, sacrifice two untapped lands instead. If you do, put Scorched Ruins onto the battlefield. If you don't, put it into its owner's graveyard.
4/1/2008: If you don't sacrifice the lands, Scorched Ruins never enters the battlefield — it goes directly to your graveyard.
Which makes it more like an additional casting cost than an ETB trigger, or an ETB replacement. Both cards have this errata and ruling.
So this rule's changing. Now, to determine what replacement effects will apply to a permanent entering the battlefield, you look at continuous effects that modify that permanent's characteristics coming from the permanent itself along with those that already exist and will affect that permanent. Dimir Aqueduct enters the battlefield untapped under Blood Moon. Humility causes creatures with modular to enter without their +1/+1 counters. Metallic Mimic can distribute +1/+1 counters happily to your army of Ferrets under Arcane Adaptation.
...
Todetermine which replacement effects apply and how they apply, check the characteristics of the permanent as it would exist on the battlefield, taking into account replacement effects that have already modified how it enters the battlefield (see rule 616.1), continuous effects from the permanent’s own static abilities that would apply to it once it’s on the battlefield, and continuous effects that already exist and would apply to the permanent
Its my understanding that the Ixalan rules change means that indeed, the replacement effect won't send lotus value / scorched ruins to the graveyard instead of the battlefield if Blood Sun would apply to them, because it now 'looks forwards' to what replacement effects would affect them on the battlefield. Which is quite a doozy
There's a slight hitch in the ruling being 1:1 with the other 'enters the battlefield' rulings. They don't:
If Scorched Ruins would enter the battlefield, sacrifice two untapped lands instead. If you do, put Scorched Ruins onto the battlefield. If you don't, put it into its owner's graveyard.
4/1/2008: If you don't sacrifice the lands, Scorched Ruins never enters the battlefield — it goes directly to your graveyard.
Which makes it more like an additional casting cost than an ETB trigger, or an ETB replacement. Both cards have this errata and ruling.
And the ruling of September 2017, which made these cards' abilities get lost before they even get to the point of doing that replacement, now renders the prior ruling from 2008 moot.
Eli Shiffrin specifically addressed this in a tweet on Nov 10, 2017.
Peter asks: Does C.R. 614.12, at time of writing, apply to the form "If ... would enter the battlefield"?
Eli answers: Those are replacement effects so yes
How would this apply to cycling on a land, such as Lonely Sandbar?
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The "Crazy One", playing casual magic and occasionally dipping his toes into regular play since 1994.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
How would this apply to cycling on a land, such as Lonely Sandbar?
Effectively, not at all (well, not the cycling part; it would clobber the entering-tapped part). This affects land permanents that are on and entering the battlefield. It doesn't affect land cards in other zones.
Looks like they tried to make a budget option for Blood Moon, but also one that does something a little different that might end up being not far off Moon's power level. This card is definitely nice.
Oh no, it's way weaker than Blood Moon. I can tell you right away that I wouldn't mind seeing this enchantment on the other side of the table in Modern, since I run a three-color (sans red) deck. Blood Sun hoses fetches, sure, but so does Blood Moon -- which also hoses duals and Tron lands. There are a ton of decks in Modern where if Blood Moon comes down turn 2 or 3, you effectively win the game. Most decks won't care about this unless they have a hand full of fetches. In fact, opponents get to play their shocks and (if they got em) Ravnica bounce lands untapped and without any drawbacks with this out.
There are decks in Legacy that this is perfectly fine. If you are on the play, and open with City of Traitors/Ancient Tomb + Simian Spirit Guide, this effectively becomes Blood Moon 5-8 for some decks. Modern and Legacy are far too dependent on fetches to fix their mana issues. This will slow that down a bit.
This probably won't slow down modern much being a three cost enchantment. If it were a two cost enchantment then definitely.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
If this card does nothing else, it will have a lot of people referencing the rules documents!
At first I was thinking this would be great with the Ravnica bounce lands, but Amulet of Vigor is still far superior since there would be no bouncing either with Blood Sun...
Wait wait wait wait. WAIT! Could the mere existence of this card signal an imminent ban of Blood Moon?! I don't normally proffer pseudo conspiracy theories like this, but...it seems possible. Of course, it's probably just a safety valve against the possibility of these transform lands from taking over standard. I need to calm down.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Wait wait wait wait. WAIT! Could the mere existence of this card signal an imminent ban of Blood Moon?! I don't normally proffer pseudo conspiracy theories like this, but...it seems possible. Of course, it's probably just a safety valve against the possibility of these transform lands from taking over standard. I need to calm down.
That would be really bad, take away one of the best cards against Tron in favor of a card Tron will probably run? Wizards will never, ever ban Blood Moon
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Project Booster Fun makes it less fun to open a booster.
Wait wait wait wait. WAIT! Could the mere existence of this card signal an imminent ban of Blood Moon?! I don't normally proffer pseudo conspiracy theories like this, but...it seems possible. Of course, it's probably just a safety valve against the possibility of these transform lands from taking over standard. I need to calm down.
For one I don't think Wizards thinks that way, they don't print a new "fixed" card so that they can ban another version. This was printed because it was something Standard wanted, a decent hoser to hit Deserts and some Fliplands.
For two this really doesn't work to replace Blood Moon in Modern at all, it basically does nothing in that format unless your planning to use it to unlock your own lands.
Wait wait wait wait. WAIT! Could the mere existence of this card signal an imminent ban of Blood Moon?! I don't normally proffer pseudo conspiracy theories like this, but...it seems possible. Of course, it's probably just a safety valve against the possibility of these transform lands from taking over standard. I need to calm down.
That would be really bad, take away one of the best cards against Tron in favor of a card Tron will probably run? Wizards will never, ever ban Blood Moon
Blood Moon ia actuallynot that great against Tron. They can get there anyway, and Oblivion Stone usually removes the Moon. It's more of a speedbump for them than anything else.
(Blood Moon plus a decent clock is effective, but as a control player who tried Blood Moon against Tron, I can confirm it doesn't really work as expected. :eek:)
This probably won't slow down modern much being a three cost enchantment.
...but the most played enchantment in modern right now has the exact same cost and does a lot of the same things...
They are not anywhere near the same. Blood Moon retroactively turns all non-basic lands in play into mountains, which stops existing fetches on the field (unless they use them in response), and stops dual lands from working. This newer card stops the utility lands abilities from functioning, but wont stop dual lands, so it doesn't hose decks anywhere near as hard as the former does.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Hits Dark Depths combo, so what? It doesn't hit ABUR Duals or my other green or white fixers. Let them play it so I can drop DD counters free, then slap my opponent with Krosan Grip. Or better yet, tease out another spell with a simple Disenchant for the first Blood so I can find the other one they probably have.
Saves me the trouble of having to sift through my deck in a hurry for a Forest or Plains.
It's a Blood Moon variant. Though it seems like it would be blue these days, there is precedent, plus the name.
(As an aside, I would love if red had more nonbasic hate, just for the "It's your own damned fault I can Stone Rain you to hell and back." factor.)
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
This is weird as it’s both hate and anti-drawback. Dual lands come into play untapped, Bouncelands don’t require you to bounce anything, City of traitors doesn’t require any sacrifices, Lotus Vale becomes literal Black Lotus.
I think Lotus Vale will still need you to sack something, since its replacing its own entrance. It's not on the board to be scrubbed by blood sun.
This is weird as it’s both hate and anti-drawback. Dual lands come into play untapped, Bouncelands don’t require you to bounce anything, City of traitors doesn’t require any sacrifices, Lotus Vale becomes literal Black Lotus.
I think Lotus Vale will still need you to sack something, since its replacing its own entrance. It's not on the board to be scrubbed by blood sun.
no, it doesn't. I recommend you spend 5 minutes going back 2 pages and read the rules.
I think most folks are looking at this card wrong. This isn't something you'd play to hurt your opponent, it's a card that helps you do silly things on your end. Plus it cantrips which makes it better than blood moon in multiples.
Wow, I have to say this card is going to affect all formats. The card interacts with so many others. Bravo wizards.
I'm not quite sure it will have as big an impact outside of Standard some are saying. Honestly, I don't know how much Blood Moon is played globally.
In my local meta, Blood Moon isn't a torrential force or anything. But a fair number of decks, like Lands or Tron, are sensitive to it. When I see Blood Sun, I think it actually makes it easier on decks like Land. It's another justification for anti-enchantment cards not to mention it does look easier to continue operating under Sun since it's not a complete shutdown like Moon can be.
Point I'm trying to make is, if decks in a meta are already well prepared for or against Blood Moon, they're already prepared for, or just don't care, about Blood Sun.
I actually like this card and I'm very eager to see if a Lotus Vale-esque deck will be born that can march alongside Tron and Post decks.
From the september rules update, its now handled by 614.12, 614.16d;
https://magic.wizards.com/en/game-info/gameplay/rules-and-formats/rules
Its my understanding that the Ixalan rules change means that indeed, the replacement effect won't send lotus value / scorched ruins to the graveyard instead of the battlefield if Blood Sun would apply to them, because it now 'looks forwards' to what replacement effects would affect them on the battlefield. Which is quite a doozy
And the ruling of September 2017, which made these cards' abilities get lost before they even get to the point of doing that replacement, now renders the prior ruling from 2008 moot.
Eli Shiffrin specifically addressed this in a tweet on Nov 10, 2017.
Peter asks: Does C.R. 614.12, at time of writing, apply to the form "If ... would enter the battlefield"?
Eli answers: Those are replacement effects so yes
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
He was asked:
does blood sun stop lotus vale/scorched ruins from having to sac lands?
And he answered:
Yes, it does. This changed back with Ixalan (see Blood Moon's rulings), so some people still haven't caught up.
Effectively, not at all (well, not the cycling part; it would clobber the entering-tapped part). This affects land permanents that are on and entering the battlefield. It doesn't affect land cards in other zones.
There are decks in Legacy that this is perfectly fine. If you are on the play, and open with City of Traitors/Ancient Tomb + Simian Spirit Guide, this effectively becomes Blood Moon 5-8 for some decks. Modern and Legacy are far too dependent on fetches to fix their mana issues. This will slow that down a bit.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
My 720 Peasant Cube
...but the most played enchantment in modern right now has the exact same cost and does a lot of the same things...
At first I was thinking this would be great with the Ravnica bounce lands, but Amulet of Vigor is still far superior since there would be no bouncing either with Blood Sun...
My 720 Peasant Cube
There's a reason the person they chose to publish this spoiler is the Rules Manager.
My playgroup used to give me ***** about running both of those cards-
well who's laughing now?!
MWAHAHAHAHA!!!
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
That would be really bad, take away one of the best cards against Tron in favor of a card Tron will probably run? Wizards will never, ever ban Blood Moon
For one I don't think Wizards thinks that way, they don't print a new "fixed" card so that they can ban another version. This was printed because it was something Standard wanted, a decent hoser to hit Deserts and some Fliplands.
For two this really doesn't work to replace Blood Moon in Modern at all, it basically does nothing in that format unless your planning to use it to unlock your own lands.
It's actually an elegant solution...
Blood Moon ia actuallynot that great against Tron. They can get there anyway, and Oblivion Stone usually removes the Moon. It's more of a speedbump for them than anything else.
(Blood Moon plus a decent clock is effective, but as a control player who tried Blood Moon against Tron, I can confirm it doesn't really work as expected. :eek:)
They are not anywhere near the same. Blood Moon retroactively turns all non-basic lands in play into mountains, which stops existing fetches on the field (unless they use them in response), and stops dual lands from working. This newer card stops the utility lands abilities from functioning, but wont stop dual lands, so it doesn't hose decks anywhere near as hard as the former does.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Saves me the trouble of having to sift through my deck in a hurry for a Forest or Plains.
It's a Blood Moon variant. Though it seems like it would be blue these days, there is precedent, plus the name.
(As an aside, I would love if red had more nonbasic hate, just for the "It's your own damned fault I can Stone Rain you to hell and back." factor.)
On phasing:
no, it doesn't. I recommend you spend 5 minutes going back 2 pages and read the rules.
I think most folks are looking at this card wrong. This isn't something you'd play to hurt your opponent, it's a card that helps you do silly things on your end. Plus it cantrips which makes it better than blood moon in multiples.
This card is super sweet.
I'm not quite sure it will have as big an impact outside of Standard some are saying. Honestly, I don't know how much Blood Moon is played globally.
In my local meta, Blood Moon isn't a torrential force or anything. But a fair number of decks, like Lands or Tron, are sensitive to it. When I see Blood Sun, I think it actually makes it easier on decks like Land. It's another justification for anti-enchantment cards not to mention it does look easier to continue operating under Sun since it's not a complete shutdown like Moon can be.
Point I'm trying to make is, if decks in a meta are already well prepared for or against Blood Moon, they're already prepared for, or just don't care, about Blood Sun.
I actually like this card and I'm very eager to see if a Lotus Vale-esque deck will be born that can march alongside Tron and Post decks.