Being able to flip Azor's Gateway too soon would all but ensure that the X it produced of any one color would be ridiculously high consistently in Standard.
Speaking of Standard, cards like Sanguine Sacrament kind of create a feedback loop with this land.
By the time a player has successfully met the requirements of Azor's Gateway in my EDH meta, somebody has already won. The chances of it happening in standard with Ram Red and Temur Energy stomping around are slim to none. It's flavourful, but it's a bad card.
Azor's Gateway has an amazing payoff, but it's painfully slow and telegraphed. In EDH, you'll activate it up to three or four time and it'll eat removal.
Maybe turn it into a Human and cast Moonmist? Would that work?
People shouldn't be viewing Azor's Gateway's ability as only a hoop to jump through to flip the land. It loots every turn for just 1. Kind of sucks that the cards pitched are exiled with no hope of bringing them back (I had initially thought when I read the front side that there was going to be some way to use those cards once the card flipped), but it still provides a valuable ability for a relatively low cost.
How does Azor’s gateway interact with split cards and aftermath cards? Does it interact favorably, like I think it would?
Also, to the guy saying that his games are won by the time this flips, I’ll counter with this will be flipped by the time it gets back to me in a 4-Player game. Seriously, Unwinding Clock or Clock of Omens like effects, very easy to flip IMO, as far as surviving long enough? It’ll need an answer or the game will end, quickly.
How does Azor’s gateway interact with split cards and aftermath cards? Does it interact favorably, like I think it would?
Unfortunately, when they made that rule change back in March or April or whenever last year, the CMC is the total of both parts of the card in all other zones but the stack. On the stack, the CMC is that of the card being cast at the time (For example, Commit // Memory would could as a CMC 10 for Azor's Gateway).
How does Azor’s gateway interact with split cards and aftermath cards? Does it interact favorably, like I think it would?
Also, to the guy saying that his games are won by the time this flips, I’ll counter with this will be flipped by the time it gets back to me in a 4-Player game. Seriously, Unwinding Clock or Clock of Omens like effects, very easy to flip IMO, as far as surviving long enough? It’ll need an answer or the game will end, quickly.
If i m not mistake, flip cards cmc is equal to the soom of part A and B ( CMC card A&B = CMC A + CMC B ) for aftermath i think it works as u choose what side u want.
isn't a 2+1 for a 'loot' effect (sans graveyard manipulation) really cheap? I mean its not like jalum tome was aggressively costed and can be used as any benchmark. Merfolk Looter in blue with summoning sickness and vulnerable to removal is more efficient, but the closest we've gotten is seeker of insight who is quite unreliable and conditional.
/e but naturally this is going to compete with search for azcanta in blue, which IS more efficient, so you'd have to basically rule it out for that slot, but in other colors...
/e2 oh right also treasure map. I guess its easy to tunnel vision on the immediate card selection, but when you're using scry 1 EoT its basically the same thing as draw-exile, so I think this is very similar to treasure map on the front side.
If you're treating Azor's Gateway as a dead card until it turns on, then its pure jank because the flip is insanely hard to bring about and ridiculously slow and won't occur in most games even when the path is clear, and even then its not necessarily game winning on its own. But if it sees big play as a crystal ball, that's something
isn't a 2+1 for a 'loot' effect (sans graveyard manipulation) really cheap? I mean its not like jalum tome was aggressively costed and can be used as any benchmark. Merfolk Looter in blue with summoning sickness and vulnerable to removal is more efficient, but the closest we've gotten is seeker of insight who is quite unreliable and conditional.
If you're treating Azor's Gateway as a dead card until it turns on, then its pure jank because the flip is insanely hard to bring about and ridiculously slow and won't occur in most games even when the path is clear, and even then its not necessarily game winning on its own. But if it sees big play as a crystal ball, that's something
Yeah, this is exactly what I was saying earlier and something that most people are missing. The front side isn't completely dead. It's actually very valuable to have repeatable looting for only a 2 upfront cost and 1 each activation. Of course the backside is bonkers and is what you should be going for, but this is anything but a do-nothing until it flips. Control decks WILL play this card in Standard.
Yeah, this is exactly what I was saying earlier and something that most people are missing. The front side isn't completely dead. It's actually very valuable to have repeatable looting for only a 2 upfront cost and 1 each activation. Of course the backside is bonkers and is what you should be going for, but this is anything but a do-nothing until it flips. Control decks WILL play this card in Standard.
I was thinking that but then treasure map is the direct competition isn't it? Map is easier to flip, but the exile-looting is marginally better than the scrying. Exile-looting triggers any relevant on-draw effects and can be paid up front on your turn when you're out of gas, giving you sorcery speed options, while scrying is stuck on your opponents end step without additional draw effects, but scrying is better when you're emptyhanded. But treasure map is far easier to flip, whereas this is liable to never flip at all. But the payoff for the flip is higher, heck it even untaps itself unlike map.
Arch of Orazca is the one I'm far more excited to see. It's so easy to achieve in Commander and I'm sure it'll see some small amount of play in Standard. I'd like to say it could be played in some Modern decks, but I can't be sure in what, if any. Tokens maybe? I guess then the player still needs to activate it, so maybe not Modern.
I was thinking that but then treasure map is the direct competition isn't it? Map is easier to flip, but the exile-looting is marginally better than the scrying. Exile-looting triggers any relevant on-draw effects and can be paid up front on your turn when you're out of gas, giving you sorcery speed options, while scrying is stuck on your opponents end step without additional draw effects, but scrying is better when you're emptyhanded. But treasure map is far easier to flip, whereas this is liable to never flip at all. But the payoff for the flip is higher, heck it even untaps itself unlike map.
Looting is markedly better than just a scry since you get the card in your hand right away, rather than having to wait until your draw step or finding some other way to draw it. Decks that may have a lot of extra lands or other dead cards sitting around (like control decks pre-board) would love the ability to loot repeatedly for only 1.
If this card does see serious Standard play, Pull from Tomorrow will certainly jump in price because it will be bananas to draw that many cards with the land (routinely 8-10+, if not more).
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Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
Speaking of Standard, cards like Sanguine Sacrament kind of create a feedback loop with this land.
Modern:R 8Whack R|W White Knights W
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
Maybe turn it into a Human and cast Moonmist? Would that work?
Also, to the guy saying that his games are won by the time this flips, I’ll counter with this will be flipped by the time it gets back to me in a 4-Player game. Seriously, Unwinding Clock or Clock of Omens like effects, very easy to flip IMO, as far as surviving long enough? It’ll need an answer or the game will end, quickly.
Unfortunately, when they made that rule change back in March or April or whenever last year, the CMC is the total of both parts of the card in all other zones but the stack. On the stack, the CMC is that of the card being cast at the time (For example, Commit // Memory would could as a CMC 10 for Azor's Gateway).
I initially had the same thought at first.
Well....it comes from a TENDERSHOOT Dryad ;-)
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
Totally worth it.
If i m not mistake, flip cards cmc is equal to the soom of part A and B ( CMC card A&B = CMC A + CMC B ) for aftermath i think it works as u choose what side u want.
/e but naturally this is going to compete with search for azcanta in blue, which IS more efficient, so you'd have to basically rule it out for that slot, but in other colors...
/e2 oh right also treasure map. I guess its easy to tunnel vision on the immediate card selection, but when you're using scry 1 EoT its basically the same thing as draw-exile, so I think this is very similar to treasure map on the front side.
If you're treating Azor's Gateway as a dead card until it turns on, then its pure jank because the flip is insanely hard to bring about and ridiculously slow and won't occur in most games even when the path is clear, and even then its not necessarily game winning on its own. But if it sees big play as a crystal ball, that's something
Yeah, this is exactly what I was saying earlier and something that most people are missing. The front side isn't completely dead. It's actually very valuable to have repeatable looting for only a 2 upfront cost and 1 each activation. Of course the backside is bonkers and is what you should be going for, but this is anything but a do-nothing until it flips. Control decks WILL play this card in Standard.
I was thinking that but then treasure map is the direct competition isn't it? Map is easier to flip, but the exile-looting is marginally better than the scrying. Exile-looting triggers any relevant on-draw effects and can be paid up front on your turn when you're out of gas, giving you sorcery speed options, while scrying is stuck on your opponents end step without additional draw effects, but scrying is better when you're emptyhanded. But treasure map is far easier to flip, whereas this is liable to never flip at all. But the payoff for the flip is higher, heck it even untaps itself unlike map.
Looting is markedly better than just a scry since you get the card in your hand right away, rather than having to wait until your draw step or finding some other way to draw it. Decks that may have a lot of extra lands or other dead cards sitting around (like control decks pre-board) would love the ability to loot repeatedly for only 1.
If this card does see serious Standard play, Pull from Tomorrow will certainly jump in price because it will be bananas to draw that many cards with the land (routinely 8-10+, if not more).