Angarth is not bad for a 1 of BR or Dega control in Modern.
>Uses "Dega" instead of "Mardu"
I haven't seen that in a while.
I suppose people who became used to it before KTK, hated KTK, or wanted that hipster "before it was cool" appeal haven't had many reasons to change their minds recently.
4 toughness for the sole reason to have 4 toughness to survive key removal spells is so terrible in your face "designed" that it hurts.
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Beside that, its pretty much junk and crap cards.
The planeswalker is especially disappointing, the version in the precon is overall a better fit for the set and even STRONGER in lots of cases.
The converted maancost 3 or less part is unnecessary and makes the card worse for simply no reason, other than making this card a lot more terrible than it needs to be (and the ultimate is boring too, for the reason that its overkill, as you win with the +1 effect anyway, if you can use that 4+ times in a row you really do not need the ultimate anyway).
Geez, I can't believe how many people are giving Angrath bad marks. That +1 is terrifying for any midrange or control deck to play against. And even if you're empty handed, you still shock each opponent. Yeah, it's bad in aggro decks because it doesn't kill your opponents as quickly as something like Glorybringer, but if Grixis or Mardu control is a thing next standard, this card will be in it, and in Grixis, Angrath alongside Nicol Bolas will be a nightmare for midrange and control decks.
Geez, I can't believe how many people are giving Angrath bad marks. That +1 is terrifying for any midrange or control deck to play against. And even if you're empty handed, you still shock each opponent. Yeah, it's bad in aggro decks because it doesn't kill your opponents as quickly as something like Glorybringer, but if Grixis or Mardu control is a thing next standard, this card will be in it, and in Grixis, Angrath alongside Nicol Bolas will be a nightmare for midrange and control decks.
I'm not saying I'm agreeing with the "Angrath is bad" train, but when we've been spoiled by this, this and this, I'm not surprised people are jumping down Angrath's throat.
I'm not saying I'm agreeing with the "Angrath is bad" train, but when we've been spoiled by this, this and this, I'm not surprised people are jumping down Angrath's throat.
Two of those three are not in Standard anymore.
Depending on any R and/or B ramp we get in Dominaria and/or M19 Angrath (and Nicol Bolas!) might be forces to be reckoned with. Don't discard ( ) it just yet.
'buster
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'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset. Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
Also, Angarth could be sideboard in Jund in Modern for the mirror (even though it isn't a massive showing in the format, but it is still good). Steals most of the creatures in Modern, so even if they play it you get to steal it then sac it. I'm not saying it is going to warp the format, but I think it will see as a one of or SB card.
I'm not saying I'm agreeing with the "Angrath is bad" train, but when we've been spoiled by this, this and this, I'm not surprised people are jumping down Angrath's throat.
Two of those three are not in Standard anymore.
I know, and you're missing the point. These walkers and others have set such a high bar for walkers in previous rotations that when we see a "fair" walker like Angrath, some of us are quick to dismiss him outside of maybe Commander.
Angrath seems ok to me but his numbers seems slightly off to me. Starting at 4 loyalty and having a +1 but trying to get to a -8 ultimate, He's probably never gonna get there. Furthermore his second ability is a -3 which means he can't activate it twice in a row even if you use his +1 first.
However while the loyalty numbers on his abilities line up poorly they aren't bad effects, mini-Blightning with EDH friendly wording is ok, I think people often underestimate the oppressive power of repeatable discard like this. Mini-Slave of Bolas seems very powerful, while I would rather always destroy the creature I can see the opinion that full Slave of Bolas as his minus ability might have been too good and as it stands this is still pretty good. As for the ult, well its an ult, will it kill some people, probably especially when you consider how well the plus ability works with it softening opponents up and putting more cards in their graveyard, also he starts at 4 and its a -8 which means Angrath works with Doubling Season which is ok, certain not an amazing ult to Doubling Season for.
New Dinosaur seems sweet, makes me think of Qasali Pridemage, 1 more mana but 1 less color and 1 more toughness, also exalted is arguably better than just +1/+1 since not only does it make Pridemage a functional 3/3 but it gives a portion of his stats haste and allows him to use them without the risk of attacking himself. However being a slightly worse Qasali Pridemage makes you a pretty good card
The other two are fine but nothing really special, Dinosaur decks will like the Druid, I don't think the merfolk is even worth thinking about outside of limited play
Repeated discard is powerful, but it's one card a turn starting on t5. The number of times this card is going to read 'Opponent discards 1 card, loses 2 life, and you gain 5-8 life' is too high for it to be great. The new Ajani is just miles ahead of this card in each level and in colors that good with it and it still sees zero play.
4 toughness for the sole reason to have 4 toughness to survive key removal spells is so terrible in your face "designed" that it hurts.
----
Beside that, its pretty much junk and crap cards.
The planeswalker is especially disappointing, the version in the precon is overall a better fit for the set and even STRONGER in lots of cases.
The converted maancost 3 or less part is unnecessary and makes the card worse for simply no reason, other than making this card a lot more terrible than it needs to be (and the ultimate is boring too, for the reason that its overkill, as you win with the +1 effect anyway, if you can use that 4+ times in a row you really do not need the ultimate anyway).
Pretty sure you aren't reading the card correctly. The 3cmc part makes this card better than it normally would be. Not sure why you'd think otherwise
Angrath seems aggressively mediocre. If there is a black and red aggressive midrange deck he'll fit in that once Glorybringer leaves but he isn't powerful enough to create an archetype on his own.
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That was pretty interesting. But dropping a warship on me is cheating. Take it back!
I'm actually totally OK with that. When I first learned about planeswalkers I thought they were flavourful but gimmicky. I honestly thought they were cards targetting the Johnny/Vorthos players and wouldn't see competitive play. But then they got pushed and now most decks need planeswalkers to be competitive and I hated that. (It's one of the reasons I quit playing for a few years - I got back in because SOI interested me)
So, yeah - I'd be totally fine if planeswalkers stop being the linchpin in decks and take a back-seat to the rest of the synergy in the deck itself.
...Ssssssooooooo... You want to neuter one of the premier and most popular card types because you misevaluated them some years ago?
The number of people who want to play Planeswalkers: The Gathering or Creatures: The Gathering is smaller than you would expect. Planeswalkers are popular with a certain type of player. They are unpopular with others. Gideon, Jace et al are hated by a large subsection of the community. At my local Legacy events I don't see many people hyped to play Planeswalkers. At my local Standard evens I don't see many players full stop.
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People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
I'm not saying I'm agreeing with the "Angrath is bad" train, but when we've been spoiled by this, this and this, I'm not surprised people are jumping down Angrath's throat.
Two of those three are not in Standard anymore.
I know, and you're missing the point. These walkers and others have set such a high bar for walkers in previous rotations that when we see a "fair" walker like Angrath, some of us are quick to dismiss him outside of maybe Commander.
I did not miss the point. We've had high bars for plenty of cards through the ages. And you're right it is overshadowed by previous cards however others shouldn't completely dismiss him especially since we don't know what sort of support we'll get in the first half of the year.
Comparing Angrath to Gideon and Liliana considering both not even in Standard, is rather stupid. If all three were in Standard, and even for Modern purposes, then the comparison would be applicable.
My enthusiasm level for Rivals of Ixalan was already declining. These don't do a thing to reverse that trend for me. And if the spoilers coming this week aren't any better I'll just save my $$$ up for Dominaria that has my interest level at a high point compared to this coming set. I have a feeling I'm not alone in this sentiment.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Angrath's +/-/loyalty numbers are just brutally bad. He's a 5 drop who can come down with 1 loyalty if he wants to protect himself and 4 turns before he can do it again, or 5 loyalty with 4 turns to go before ultimating on turn 9. It just doesn't give you much room to play around with his options. And faltering against big threats when he himself is a big card is especially problematic. At 5+ cmc, full blown 3-for-1's like confiscation coup kick in, in blue, and that's just more efficient than either a threaten and/or sac, and your ability to get value out of discarding from a 1 loyalty walker on turn 6+ is uh... doubtful
Angrath could be good in discard based EDH. Could be solid value but doesn't read overly exciting.
The dinosaur looks really good. It's a naturalize on a decent body.
The merfolk is boring. Might be okay filler in limited, so it really is the epitome of boring.
I think the three mana mana dork is too slow for that role and might be a regrowth with upside. Not really exciting as that either. Okay day, especially since these seem to be leaks so they weren't supposed to hype me up, but hardly a hype garnerer for rivals.
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EDH Decks UWB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic's spring of life RUG Animar, Soul of the Elements and friends... lots of them WBG Karador king of two worlds (value and attrition) WRKalemne's Angels BRUG Yidris's Wild Party UWBR Breya's Terrifying Tinker Toys UBRThe Pretender
I'm excited to test Angrath in Rakdos Control in modern. Seems like a really good top-end in a creatureless/superfriends style build. His primary competition for that slot is Chandra, Flamecaller, and I think he stacks up favorably there.
Not sure Angrath has a home right now, but he's still great. Just another card that won't have a chance because of energy. Like Huatli, I'm going to keep my eye on him for post rotation...in 10 months....
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If MTG is a part of your life, the formats are like relationships:
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
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This is the first ever planeswalker that can be put in any rakdos color involved edh deck. Which involves dealing tons of damage to your opponents
So 1# commander home for this walker would be Rakdos, Lord of Riots reducing the cost of spells by 6 sounds wonderful.
I suppose people who became used to it before KTK, hated KTK, or wanted that hipster "before it was cool" appeal haven't had many reasons to change their minds recently.
4 toughness for the sole reason to have 4 toughness to survive key removal spells is so terrible in your face "designed" that it hurts.
----
Beside that, its pretty much junk and crap cards.
The planeswalker is especially disappointing, the version in the precon is overall a better fit for the set and even STRONGER in lots of cases.
The converted maancost 3 or less part is unnecessary and makes the card worse for simply no reason, other than making this card a lot more terrible than it needs to be (and the ultimate is boring too, for the reason that its overkill, as you win with the +1 effect anyway, if you can use that 4+ times in a row you really do not need the ultimate anyway).
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
I'm not saying I'm agreeing with the "Angrath is bad" train, but when we've been spoiled by this, this and this, I'm not surprised people are jumping down Angrath's throat.
Two of those three are not in Standard anymore.
Depending on any R and/or B ramp we get in Dominaria and/or M19 Angrath (and Nicol Bolas!) might be forces to be reckoned with. Don't discard ( ) it just yet.
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
I know, and you're missing the point. These walkers and others have set such a high bar for walkers in previous rotations that when we see a "fair" walker like Angrath, some of us are quick to dismiss him outside of maybe Commander.
However while the loyalty numbers on his abilities line up poorly they aren't bad effects, mini-Blightning with EDH friendly wording is ok, I think people often underestimate the oppressive power of repeatable discard like this. Mini-Slave of Bolas seems very powerful, while I would rather always destroy the creature I can see the opinion that full Slave of Bolas as his minus ability might have been too good and as it stands this is still pretty good. As for the ult, well its an ult, will it kill some people, probably especially when you consider how well the plus ability works with it softening opponents up and putting more cards in their graveyard, also he starts at 4 and its a -8 which means Angrath works with Doubling Season which is ok, certain not an amazing ult to Doubling Season for.
New Dinosaur seems sweet, makes me think of Qasali Pridemage, 1 more mana but 1 less color and 1 more toughness, also exalted is arguably better than just +1/+1 since not only does it make Pridemage a functional 3/3 but it gives a portion of his stats haste and allows him to use them without the risk of attacking himself. However being a slightly worse Qasali Pridemage makes you a pretty good card
The other two are fine but nothing really special, Dinosaur decks will like the Druid, I don't think the merfolk is even worth thinking about outside of limited play
Pretty sure you aren't reading the card correctly. The 3cmc part makes this card better than it normally would be. Not sure why you'd think otherwise
The number of people who want to play Planeswalkers: The Gathering or Creatures: The Gathering is smaller than you would expect. Planeswalkers are popular with a certain type of player. They are unpopular with others. Gideon, Jace et al are hated by a large subsection of the community. At my local Legacy events I don't see many people hyped to play Planeswalkers. At my local Standard evens I don't see many players full stop.
The problem is it's not great against more aggressive decks and it doesn't really have a home in any existing decks in Standard.
Standard: BG Golgari Midrange
Modern: U Merfolk GWUBR 5 Color Humans UBW Esper Gifts GW Bogles
I did not miss the point. We've had high bars for plenty of cards through the ages. And you're right it is overshadowed by previous cards however others shouldn't completely dismiss him especially since we don't know what sort of support we'll get in the first half of the year.
Comparing Angrath to Gideon and Liliana considering both not even in Standard, is rather stupid. If all three were in Standard, and even for Modern purposes, then the comparison would be applicable.
Case in point: give the 'taur a chance folks!
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Greatly appreciated! The attachments here aren’t so mobile friendly.
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
The dinosaur looks really good. It's a naturalize on a decent body.
The merfolk is boring. Might be okay filler in limited, so it really is the epitome of boring.
I think the three mana mana dork is too slow for that role and might be a regrowth with upside. Not really exciting as that either. Okay day, especially since these seem to be leaks so they weren't supposed to hype me up, but hardly a hype garnerer for rivals.
EDH Decks
UWB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic's spring of life
RUG Animar, Soul of the Elements and friends... lots of them
WBG Karador king of two worlds (value and attrition)
WRKalemne's Angels
BRUG Yidris's Wild Party
UWBR Breya's Terrifying Tinker Toys
UBR The Pretender
Legacy - WRG Lands, WR Shortcake, RR Burn, UBRG Delver
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring