Wizard's certainly knew that a set that returned to Dominaria was going to have immense expectations, and between Jaya, Jhoira, and Teferi, they are seriously delivering. Let's just hope the cards measure up to the hype.
Why exactly? Even if you aren't into old-school MTG, all 3 of these guys appeared in the game from Time Spiral onwards, all 3 have had their shot in the limelight in Commander, and Karn here is likely getting a new PW card.
I remember Karn and Teferi from Mirage and the Weatherlight. But Jhoira's contribution to old-school mtg seems to be all of Jhoira's Toolbox?
Card-wise? Definitely Tinker She is also on Slow Motion.
She was the best friend of Karn, and the explosion of Tolarian time machine (Sunder) basically happened only because she was killed by Phyrexian agents along with Barrin and Teferi, and Urza, who came too late, overloaded the machine to send Karn sufficiently back and rescue her. All three were alive in the new timeline, but everyone else except some forty-five academy staff rescued by Urza and Karn dies. Well, Urza again best in his "saving" anything...
Later, she was the first ever captain of the Weatherlight. Even later, she, as a native Ghitu from Shiv, went back home and ran the Mana Rig to produce Thran metal.
She kinda WRECKED things in Time Streams, given she and her stupid hormones gave Kerrick access to the school.
I suppose she made up for it by being stuck on a time-warped death island for twenty years, being the only survivor, and figuring out a way to pull Teferi out of his own time bubble.
Wasnt the entire point of vensers sacrifice to purge karn of the phyrexian corruption, which would include the oil
I think Venser just purged the Phyrexian corruption that Karn had suffered while on Mirrodin, but the Phyrexia Oil that was part of Karn was something else, Its a still a part of Karn but its no longer a threat to him since he has a spark again, the danger from it was caused because when Karn lost his spark after Timespiral he wasn't immune to the corruption of his own Phyrexian power source, with Karn as a planeswalker there is no worry of him spreading corruption
And was Lily and Ajani ever confirmed for Dominaria?
Neither was officially confirmed to get a card there, but Ajani went there to get allies against Bolas and those leaked booster mock-ups of Amonkhet and Ixalan way back when had Ajani on one of them, which implies that he's getting something in the near future.
I can see Liliana being on Dominaria if for no other reason than it's her home plane, and she needs to re-evaluate her life choices.
So, basically, neither has been confirmed in the slightest, and people are just projecting.
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
And was Lily and Ajani ever confirmed for Dominaria?
Neither was officially confirmed to get a card there, but Ajani went there to get allies against Bolas and those leaked booster mock-ups of Amonkhet and Ixalan way back when had Ajani on one of them, which implies that he's getting something in the near future.
I can see Liliana being on Dominaria if for no other reason than it's her home plane, and she needs to re-evaluate her life choices.
So, basically, neither has been confirmed in the slightest, and people are just projecting.
Do you really want to make a similar mistake to what you did with Liliana on Innistrad?
Ajani being on Dominaria is something that's very likely to the point that it'd be surprising if he's not there.
I'm not an "old school" player by any means (IMO an old school player is someone who was around in beta), but i remember characters like Teferi and Jhoira very well, i don't remember a lot about Karn (the last thing i remember about him is that he was in exile or something along those lines, because of the oil inside of him), but anyway, the reason why this art hasn't convinced me is simply because i like to thing about the present and the future, Jaya showing up it's pretty interesting given how old she is now, which for people who played around Time Spiral will be amazing to see that a character they liked, has actually aged (and most likely evolved with the times), but when i see Jhoira and Teferi, people who age extremely slow, instead of thinking "damm this guys are looking badass, i bet they're super powerful and/or wise now" i just think "aren't those the planeswalkers who lost their spark a few decades ago ? they look young".
As for Karn, i'm actually excited, i hope he is on Dominaria to warn them about the New Phyrexia.
Any way, i know this is A LOT of bias, but just wanted to share my opinion with you guys, on a side note, back when Amonkhet/Ixalan boosters where "leaked" there was a booster with the title "Conquest for Power(?)" and Ajani was in the "cover" given that it was a new and very well made Ajani art, i believe he is going to be on Dominaria, he said he was going to search for allier against Bolas, and then would rendezvous in Dominaria, it's been a few months since then, so maybe he found some allies?
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Art student, EDH lover and a strong believer that Delver has the best design in all of MTG.
And was Lily and Ajani ever confirmed for Dominaria?
Neither was officially confirmed to get a card there, but Ajani went there to get allies against Bolas and those leaked booster mock-ups of Amonkhet and Ixalan way back when had Ajani on one of them, which implies that he's getting something in the near future.
I can see Liliana being on Dominaria if for no other reason than it's her home plane, and she needs to re-evaluate her life choices.
So, basically, neither has been confirmed in the slightest, and people are just projecting.
Do you really want to make a similar mistake to what you did with Liliana on Innistrad?
Ajani being on Dominaria is something that's very likely to the point that it'd be surprising if he's not there.
I am still of the opinion that Lily didn't make sense on Innistrad. She quite literally had just killed half of Thraben and then some. Sorin should have been out for her blood, and not in the vampiric hunger sense.
But yes, until we have confirmation that Ajani and Lily are in Dominaria, we should assume they are not. Particularly considering that we have two confirmed returning planeswalkers already: Jaya and Karn.
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
Remember - they have said that they will be printing fewer GateWatch characters going forward. They recognize they have been flooding Standard with the GateWatch and that people are getting sick of seeing them. I wouldn't be surprised if neither Liliana nor Ajani get a new card until after their existing ones rotate out.
The planeswalker decks are likely to be Johira (U/R) and Tefiri (W/U) - which will be nice considering those are two colours we don't currently have planeswalker decks for.
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Remember - they have said that they will be printing fewer GateWatch characters going forward. They recognize they have been flooding Standard with the GateWatch and that people are getting sick of seeing them. I wouldn't be surprised if neither Liliana nor Ajani get a new card until after their existing ones rotate out.
The planeswalker decks are likely to be Johira (U/R) and Tefiri (W/U) - which will be nice considering those are two colours we don't currently have planeswalker decks for.
Jhoira isn't a PW she is "simply" ageless, the PW will probably be Karn (c) Teferi (U or UW) and Jaya (R) while Jhoira will be the long awaited UR artificer Legend imho
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"The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes again"
Thanks for the correction on Jhoira. I honestly don't know anything about her (other than she makes a nasty commander) despite having followed Magic since Mirage. The fact that she's a Legendary Creature would normally be a givaway except we can say the same thing about Jaya - although I know enough about her lore to know she actually is a planeswalker despite having a creature card.
Is there anything about Jaya that suggests she's blue? I would have pegged her as RW (like chandra's decks) and that overlaps with the obvious WU deck for Teferi (or could he be another combination? They have yet to go more than 6 months without making a UG deck...) Also making Jaya UR means that would overlap with Teferi too. I'm not seeing that (the planeswalker decks for every set have had non-overlapping colours)
I'm doubtful we'll see a Karn deck. One of the key features of these decks is the inclusion of the dual coloured taplands in them. That said there's nothing preventing them from making his deck dual coloured. Blue+something maybe? But that would overlap with the proposed Jaya as RU and Teferi as Ux
I guess the rundown of this is that the most likely decks are now Jaya RW and Karn UB (because he doesn't fit Green) unless we either see a member of the Gatewatch or a villain deck. I suppose Lilliana in her traditional BG would allow for either Jaya (White or Blue) and Teferi. Liliana in a BR deck (because the story has her flying off into a rage for some reason) would also work for either a Teferi or Karn WU deck.
A lot of this is assuming that we only get one Dominaria set (which I believe is the most likely scenario - unless they make Dominaria the new Core World, replacing Shandalar, which is what I hope they are intending. That would allow them to keep Painlands in Standard, as those are inextricably tied to Dominaria.)
I recognize I'm over analyzing this - but that is my nature.
EDIT: My bad - rereading your post I realise you weren't talking about decks - I completely misread it. Yes, the PWs will be as you said - and you said that Jhoira will be the UR Artificer Legend (for some reason I thought you were suggesting that Jaya's deck would be UR)
Given that large sets usually only contain 3 walkers - it is unlikely we will see a member of the gatewatch, which is in keeping with what MaRo said about not puting the GateWatch in every set, because people are starting to get sick of them. Since the decks are always made from PWs in the block - this means that the only reasonable conclusion is that the two decks will be Rx Jaya (likely W) and Ux Karn (unless Jaya is G or B for some reason - then that opens the door for Teferi WU)
I guess RW Jaya and UG Teferi are a remote possibility too. That seems to be their go-to deck combinations, although G is a stretch for Teferi. That said UG and UB are similarly stretches for Karn's deck.
This is really making me think we'll see Lilianna. IT's the only obvious way to make the PW decks work (other than having overlapping white for Jaya and Teferi)
Or.. maybe Jaya goes RB for her deck. Is the there a possibility she winds up being an antagonist? I know nothing of her story other than she is quoted on a ton of Ice Age cards. That would make WU Teferi easy, and is also the only way they could do an antagonist PW given that we know who all 3 of the walkers are.
As far as my "StoryLine Knowledge" goes...I don't think that Teferi is going to be a PlanesWalker. The "Spark" is a piece of the Æther that is imbued upon the Soul of a sentient being at birth. During the Time Spiral Trilogy, it took the immense power of the PlanesWalker Spark to seal the Time Rifts on Dominaria. Teferi was the first to do this, and he barely survived. Freyalise, and Lord WindGrace DIED performing the ritual. Karn survived by sacrificing the Spark he gained from Urza, but him being an artificial being, it didn't kill him...He gained Venser's Spark during the events of New Phyrexia when Venser used his magic to transfer his heart and soul into Karn to rid him of the effects of the Phyrexian Oil/Madness.
Unless the the Story-Line comes up with a "New Way" that PlanesWalkers can gain a spark, Teferi is just going to be a regular Legendary.
Hrm. Didn't Time Spiral happen hundreds of years ago? Shouldn't Teferi have died of old age if he's not a planeswalker? He should look at least as old as Jaya if that were the case.
I think it would be incredibly disappointing if Teferi is not a 'walker (he's the only 'walker I was looking forward to), but it does open the door for Liliana or a villain planeswalker, which would basically negate everything I said above (which pretty much assumed Teferi would get one of the decks)
Since Dominaria was home to Wibbly Wobbly Timey-Wimey Stuff, there's probably a plausible lore reason why Teferi isn't dead. Time magic is complicated stuff - practically anything can happen when you start mucking around with it.
Hrm. Didn't Time Spiral happen hundreds of years ago? Shouldn't Teferi have died of old age if he's not a planeswalker? He should look at least as old as Jaya if that were the case.
**DISCLAIMER: I MAY BE WRONG**...but I believe that Teferi learned how to manipulate Time for himself. I haven't read the Time Spiral Trilogy in years, but I think it was his understanding of Time Magic that led him to understanding about the Rifts. Also, when he phased out the Isle of Shiv, he essentially "Stopped" the progression of time for himself and the other inhabitants on the Continent. He may have also become ageless when he entered the Rift to perform the Mending Ritual.
Hrm. Didn't Time Spiral happen hundreds of years ago? Shouldn't Teferi have died of old age if he's not a planeswalker? He should look at least as old as Jaya if that were the case.
I think it would be incredibly disappointing if Teferi is not a 'walker (he's the only 'walker I was looking forward to), but it does open the door for Liliana or a villain planeswalker, which would basically negate everything I said above (which pretty much assumed Teferi would get one of the decks)
i think it was closer to 60 years ago, and despite having lost his spark they can easily explain away his age by saying he drank some of that handy dandy slow time water like jhoira
They could also make him be a "Transform" PlanesWalker...but again, they would have to come up with a way for him to re-gain his Spark.
That just made me tingle inside.
Well, it makes sense. The Tag-Line they gave us is "Gather Legends", and *Yes* PlanesWalkers are Legendary now, but the key art shows off Jhoira along side Karn and Teferi. Jhoira is a Legendary Creature and Karn is now a Legendary PlanesWalker. So, the final one of our Daring Trio has been both Creature: Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir and a PlanesWalker: Teferi, Temporal Archmage it makes sense that he will become a Transform PlanesWalker. It highlights all aspects of these three.
The tag is "Gather Legends" so does this mean that there will be a legendary theme given we already know that Jaya will be part of this set.
They won't do a legendary theme. Kamigawa tried, but since legends can't be common, you see where this is going.
A legendary sub-theme, maybe. There has been a bit of that before in sets that were "about" something else. (Theros, Invasion)
On the other question I see throughout this thread, Melira removed what corruption she could, but couldn't remove his heart (a.k.a. Xantcha's heart, a Phyrexian power stone). Yeah, it's kind of dramatic irony for us Xantcha fans that her heart is the only reason Phyrexia could come back. So Venser offered his heart. I'm not sure how that works, but just smile and nod.
If Karn's there, that tells me this'll be a continuation of SOM's storyline.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Hrm. Didn't Time Spiral happen hundreds of years ago? Shouldn't Teferi have died of old age if he's not a planeswalker? He should look at least as old as Jaya if that were the case.
I think it would be incredibly disappointing if Teferi is not a 'walker (he's the only 'walker I was looking forward to), but it does open the door for Liliana or a villain planeswalker, which would basically negate everything I said above (which pretty much assumed Teferi would get one of the decks)
i think it was closer to 60 years ago, and despite having lost his spark they can easily explain away his age by saying he drank some of that handy dandy slow time water like jhoira
Yes, they have stated that the Gatewatch traveled to Kaladesh roughly 60 years after the Mending/Time Spiral story happened. Or in other words, Teferi and company were sealing rifts around the same year Nissa was born.
And if you look at the image, its pretty clear that Teferi has actually aged, albeit more gracefully than Jaya. He didn't have a beard last time we saw him, and there are definitely white hairs in there. Also wrinkles where there weren't any before. Its hard to tell that he's aged mainly because he has (almost) no hair. I would bet that the writers will say the slow-time water was eliminated with the Tolarian rift, but Jhoira still benefits because she drank so much of it for so long whereas Teferi himself didn't bother drinking it because he was a planeswalker and therefore immortal.
It still would leave Venser's inability to age a mystery, though.
On the other question I see throughout this thread, Melira removed what corruption she could, but couldn't remove his heart (a.k.a. Xantcha's heart, a Phyrexian power stone). Yeah, it's kind of dramatic irony for us Xantcha fans that her heart is the only reason Phyrexia could come back. So Venser offered his heart. I'm not sure how that works, but just smile and nod.
If Karn's there, that tells me this'll be a continuation of SOM's storyline.
It could, or it could tie the New Phyrexia plot thread to the Gatewatch/Nichol Bolas plot thread. At the end of Time Spiral, Venser gave Jhoira a working Phyrexian artifact for making planar bridges. So both Ajani and Karn have good reasons for wanting to see her about that. Assuming Ajani shows up in this set.
Speculation: I bet that if Teferi gets his spark back, the Phyrexian gate artifact will be involved somehow. Or they might even turn Johira into a planeswalker!
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She kinda WRECKED things in Time Streams, given she and her stupid hormones gave Kerrick access to the school.
I suppose she made up for it by being stuck on a time-warped death island for twenty years, being the only survivor, and figuring out a way to pull Teferi out of his own time bubble.
I think Venser just purged the Phyrexian corruption that Karn had suffered while on Mirrodin, but the Phyrexia Oil that was part of Karn was something else, Its a still a part of Karn but its no longer a threat to him since he has a spark again, the danger from it was caused because when Karn lost his spark after Timespiral he wasn't immune to the corruption of his own Phyrexian power source, with Karn as a planeswalker there is no worry of him spreading corruption
So, basically, neither has been confirmed in the slightest, and people are just projecting.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
(W/U)(B/R)GForm of Progenitus, Shape of a Scrubland
BRGJund Tokens with Prossh, the Magic Dragon Foil
URGAnimar, the RUG CleanerFoil
RRRFeldon of the Third Path 2.0 Foil
BG(B/G)Not Another Meren DeckFoil
UR(U/R)Mizzix, Y Control and X Burn Spells
(W/U)(B/R)GHarold Ramos - The 35 Foot Long Twinkie (In +1/+1 counters)
UB(U/B)Dragonlord Silumgar
Atleast now we know who will play him in the movie
Glad to see that neither Teferi nor Jhoira got overrun by goblins off-screen.
Thanks to DarkNightCavalier from Heroes of the Plane Studios for this sick Signature.
The Victory, of course
Older Magic as a Board Game: Panglacial Wurm , Mill
Do you really want to make a similar mistake to what you did with Liliana on Innistrad?
Ajani being on Dominaria is something that's very likely to the point that it'd be surprising if he's not there.
As for Karn, i'm actually excited, i hope he is on Dominaria to warn them about the New Phyrexia.
Any way, i know this is A LOT of bias, but just wanted to share my opinion with you guys, on a side note, back when Amonkhet/Ixalan boosters where "leaked" there was a booster with the title "Conquest for Power(?)" and Ajani was in the "cover" given that it was a new and very well made Ajani art, i believe he is going to be on Dominaria, he said he was going to search for allier against Bolas, and then would rendezvous in Dominaria, it's been a few months since then, so maybe he found some allies?
Art student, EDH lover and a strong believer that Delver has the best design in all of MTG.
I am still of the opinion that Lily didn't make sense on Innistrad. She quite literally had just killed half of Thraben and then some. Sorin should have been out for her blood, and not in the vampiric hunger sense.
But yes, until we have confirmation that Ajani and Lily are in Dominaria, we should assume they are not. Particularly considering that we have two confirmed returning planeswalkers already: Jaya and Karn.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
The planeswalker decks are likely to be Johira (U/R) and Tefiri (W/U) - which will be nice considering those are two colours we don't currently have planeswalker decks for.
Jhoira isn't a PW she is "simply" ageless, the PW will probably be Karn (c) Teferi (U or UW) and Jaya (R) while Jhoira will be the long awaited UR artificer Legend imho
Is there anything about Jaya that suggests she's blue? I would have pegged her as RW (like chandra's decks) and that overlaps with the obvious WU deck for Teferi (or could he be another combination? They have yet to go more than 6 months without making a UG deck...) Also making Jaya UR means that would overlap with Teferi too. I'm not seeing that (the planeswalker decks for every set have had non-overlapping colours)
I'm doubtful we'll see a Karn deck. One of the key features of these decks is the inclusion of the dual coloured taplands in them. That said there's nothing preventing them from making his deck dual coloured. Blue+something maybe? But that would overlap with the proposed Jaya as RU and Teferi as Ux
I guess the rundown of this is that the most likely decks are now Jaya RW and Karn UB (because he doesn't fit Green) unless we either see a member of the Gatewatch or a villain deck. I suppose Lilliana in her traditional BG would allow for either Jaya (White or Blue) and Teferi. Liliana in a BR deck (because the story has her flying off into a rage for some reason) would also work for either a Teferi or Karn WU deck.
A lot of this is assuming that we only get one Dominaria set (which I believe is the most likely scenario - unless they make Dominaria the new Core World, replacing Shandalar, which is what I hope they are intending. That would allow them to keep Painlands in Standard, as those are inextricably tied to Dominaria.)
I recognize I'm over analyzing this - but that is my nature.
EDIT: My bad - rereading your post I realise you weren't talking about decks - I completely misread it. Yes, the PWs will be as you said - and you said that Jhoira will be the UR Artificer Legend (for some reason I thought you were suggesting that Jaya's deck would be UR)
Given that large sets usually only contain 3 walkers - it is unlikely we will see a member of the gatewatch, which is in keeping with what MaRo said about not puting the GateWatch in every set, because people are starting to get sick of them. Since the decks are always made from PWs in the block - this means that the only reasonable conclusion is that the two decks will be Rx Jaya (likely W) and Ux Karn (unless Jaya is G or B for some reason - then that opens the door for Teferi WU)
I guess RW Jaya and UG Teferi are a remote possibility too. That seems to be their go-to deck combinations, although G is a stretch for Teferi. That said UG and UB are similarly stretches for Karn's deck.
This is really making me think we'll see Lilianna. IT's the only obvious way to make the PW decks work (other than having overlapping white for Jaya and Teferi)
Or.. maybe Jaya goes RB for her deck. Is the there a possibility she winds up being an antagonist? I know nothing of her story other than she is quoted on a ton of Ice Age cards. That would make WU Teferi easy, and is also the only way they could do an antagonist PW given that we know who all 3 of the walkers are.
Unless the the Story-Line comes up with a "New Way" that PlanesWalkers can gain a spark, Teferi is just going to be a regular Legendary.
I think it would be incredibly disappointing if Teferi is not a 'walker (he's the only 'walker I was looking forward to), but it does open the door for Liliana or a villain planeswalker, which would basically negate everything I said above (which pretty much assumed Teferi would get one of the decks)
**DISCLAIMER: I MAY BE WRONG**...but I believe that Teferi learned how to manipulate Time for himself. I haven't read the Time Spiral Trilogy in years, but I think it was his understanding of Time Magic that led him to understanding about the Rifts. Also, when he phased out the Isle of Shiv, he essentially "Stopped" the progression of time for himself and the other inhabitants on the Continent. He may have also become ageless when he entered the Rift to perform the Mending Ritual.
i think it was closer to 60 years ago, and despite having lost his spark they can easily explain away his age by saying he drank some of that handy dandy slow time water like jhoira
That just made me tingle inside.
Well, it makes sense. The Tag-Line they gave us is "Gather Legends", and *Yes* PlanesWalkers are Legendary now, but the key art shows off Jhoira along side Karn and Teferi. Jhoira is a Legendary Creature and Karn is now a Legendary PlanesWalker. So, the final one of our Daring Trio has been both Creature: Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir and a PlanesWalker: Teferi, Temporal Archmage it makes sense that he will become a Transform PlanesWalker. It highlights all aspects of these three.
They won't do a legendary theme. Kamigawa tried, but since legends can't be common, you see where this is going.
A legendary sub-theme, maybe. There has been a bit of that before in sets that were "about" something else. (Theros, Invasion)
On the other question I see throughout this thread, Melira removed what corruption she could, but couldn't remove his heart (a.k.a. Xantcha's heart, a Phyrexian power stone). Yeah, it's kind of dramatic irony for us Xantcha fans that her heart is the only reason Phyrexia could come back. So Venser offered his heart. I'm not sure how that works, but just smile and nod.
If Karn's there, that tells me this'll be a continuation of SOM's storyline.
On phasing:
Yes, they have stated that the Gatewatch traveled to Kaladesh roughly 60 years after the Mending/Time Spiral story happened. Or in other words, Teferi and company were sealing rifts around the same year Nissa was born.
And if you look at the image, its pretty clear that Teferi has actually aged, albeit more gracefully than Jaya. He didn't have a beard last time we saw him, and there are definitely white hairs in there. Also wrinkles where there weren't any before. Its hard to tell that he's aged mainly because he has (almost) no hair. I would bet that the writers will say the slow-time water was eliminated with the Tolarian rift, but Jhoira still benefits because she drank so much of it for so long whereas Teferi himself didn't bother drinking it because he was a planeswalker and therefore immortal.
It still would leave Venser's inability to age a mystery, though.
It could, or it could tie the New Phyrexia plot thread to the Gatewatch/Nichol Bolas plot thread. At the end of Time Spiral, Venser gave Jhoira a working Phyrexian artifact for making planar bridges. So both Ajani and Karn have good reasons for wanting to see her about that. Assuming Ajani shows up in this set.
Speculation: I bet that if Teferi gets his spark back, the Phyrexian gate artifact will be involved somehow. Or they might even turn Johira into a planeswalker!