How cute, you copied everything I said but inserted the energy mechanic instead of city blessing. Ill play along with your blatant trolling that I am certainly going to report you for,
The inserted text was to prove a point. Etherium Sage gets it, see his post.
do you even play Standard?
Yes, for many years.
Or MtG?
That's flaming. See above answer.
THEY ARE TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT MECHANICS. They are functionally different, they have different pacing, require two different kinds of interaction to work together, and are just 100% not the same at all.
Wrong. Ascend is different than accruing energy and using it however it is an emblem that allows you extra benefits from cards. Longtusk Cub is a 2/2 for 1G, but with energy it's much more. Vona's Hunger is a sac one creature at instant. With Ascend it has much more potential.
Other than Solenmity you cannot interact with Energy. 'Until the end of the game' smacks of zero interaction. Liken it to Delerium with no cards that hate the GY if the stretch is too far for you.
Why do I even bother with this with you kids. Ugh.
That's meant to denigrate me and implies that young people are always unreasonable. That's also flaming, my age is irrelevant however I played MTG when it was first released.
If you don't agree with me great, but flaming and telling people you don't agree with to shut it aren't part of discussion.
I don't know about your area but Standard events fire twice each week at every store within a reasonably short drive of my house--I could easily hit an event four times each week at four different stores. There really aren't problems with Standard, only cards/mechanics which individual people don't like. Even before rotation and/or bannings there were *plenty* of answers to vehicles, cats, and legendary artifacts...if people would only play them.
Kinda veering off subject here but...
At my LGS around Tarkir time and leading to it we had 30 playing standard every FNM.
CoCo and the shorter card cycle flushed a bunch into Modern.
Aetherworks Marvel and infinite combo made it worse, boring and bad standard made it worse.
Now we have 30+ playing Modern and standard frequently doesn't fire.
Ascend (If you control ten or more permanents, you get the city's blessing for the rest of the game.)
The way this is presented, Ascend is defined by (x), usually inside the parenthesis the text is the same but the cost can be varied such as:
Embalm 5UU (5UU, Exile this card from your graveyard: Create a token that's a copy of it, except it's a white Zombie Sphinx with no mana cost. Embalm only as a sorcery.)
Embalm is the keyword described in () and the cost is included inside and outside.
Aside from all that 'for the rest of the game' is quite specific. There's nothing there that'd make me think someone can take an emblem from you which says on it 'Once you have achieved - blah blah - is yours to wield forever.'
It's a game state change that you either take advantage of by playing more cards with Ascend or not.
Kinda like playing cards that use energy or not.
Obviously there will be a lot more cards that use Ascend. We will see if any go too far or not, or if the combination of a bunch of them used together goes to far or not. From what we know (which yes, it's early) it looks like game state changes permanently for the 'ascended'... kinda like delirium with no GY hate.
Another uninteractive mechanic that my casual group who is struggling hard to keep the decks fair will have to face? After emblems and eminence? Thank you wotc...
Do you not interact with their permanents? I mean if it is such a big deal for you and your group, just ban the card from your play group. I actually like the card and look forward to both winning with and losing to it.
Another uninteractive mechanic that my casual group who is struggling hard to keep the decks fair will have to face? After emblems and eminence? Thank you wotc...
Do you not interact with their permanents? I mean if it is such a big deal for you and your group, just ban the card from your play group. I actually like the card and look forward to both winning with and losing to it.
Turn 3: Land, Beneath the Sands, fetch a basic. (4 lands) Turn 4: Desert, Hour of Promise, fetch two deserts, make two zombies. (7 lands, 2 creatures) Turn 5: Land, [Ascend Card] (8 lands, 2 creatures)
The only things you can interact with are the two zombies unless you are actually packing land destruction. If both zombies are destroyed, I am still 8/10 on ascending. Turn 5 could be anything that makes two permanents show up on the board. Most land destruction in standard 4+ mana with the only exception being Field of Ruin at 3 mana.
This is just in standard. Its easier to reach ascendancy out of standard at a sooner turn with just ramping. While there is more potent land destruction outside of standard, land destruction is usually frowned upon and discouraged. Effectively a Catch-22.
If you are going to let your opponent go off and do nothing those 4 turns, sure then yep, they will Ascend on turn 4 or 5. There are counter spells and removal that will deal with those play. I am also positive there will be more ways to Ascend than just this card, in fact I would say at least one per color as a cycle of Ascension makers. I would say this card was designed to deal with energy in some degree, if you want to keep your Whirling/Hydra, you are going to have to spend your energy to make some thopters to sacrifice.
When the "bread and butter" cards for decks are taken away from standard, that is why I have a gripe about it.
How long is eating bread and butter going to sustain fun? Not long. It's nice to have the game we love evolve over time so that we never feel like it's getting stale like constant bread and butter. The "this game used to be about spells not creatures" thing is an issue I don't really care about. I care about Magic. If I want to play only noncreature spells or only creature spells I can still do that. And so can others. I miss Rampant Growth but it's still out there in Magic. Standard is different. Good.
Bread and Butter is what make your decks function well. Its not always flashy but its whats necessary. if you actually cared about MTG like you say you do, you would understand that this an ongoing problem. You say difference is good but I don't believe you.
A solid foundation is needed to be there in order to make sets run more smoothly. The removal of the core set created more problems in Standard ever since Magic Origins rotated out. Core Sets are what kept standard mostly healthy and core sets are where many of these "boring but necessary" cards lived.
You want the junk food and lobster dinners? You got to eat the boring food as well as its good for you.
Haha remind me to never let you cook me a meal, or allow you to make any kind of design choice when it comes to games like magic :P.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
When the "bread and butter" cards for decks are taken away from standard, that is why I have a gripe about it.
How long is eating bread and butter going to sustain fun? Not long. It's nice to have the game we love evolve over time so that we never feel like it's getting stale like constant bread and butter. The "this game used to be about spells not creatures" thing is an issue I don't really care about. I care about Magic. If I want to play only noncreature spells or only creature spells I can still do that. And so can others. I miss Rampant Growth but it's still out there in Magic. Standard is different. Good.
Bread and Butter is what make your decks function well. Its not always flashy but its whats necessary. if you actually cared about MTG like you say you do, you would understand that this an ongoing problem. You say difference is good but I don't believe you.
A solid foundation is needed to be there in order to make sets run more smoothly. The removal of the core set created more problems in Standard ever since Magic Origins rotated out. Core Sets are what kept standard mostly healthy and core sets are where many of these "boring but necessary" cards lived.
You want the junk food and lobster dinners? You got to eat the boring food as well as its good for you.
Haha remind me to never let you cook me a meal, or allow you to make any kind of design choice when it comes to games like magic :P.
Why? Because what they are actually saying is factually wrong? That WOTC blundered so hard when it comes to design balance that forgetting some of the core cards for decks, which they have admitted to accidentally forgetting, that it has caused problems in standard? I'm going to be honest 31F has a point and is frankly correct on the manner.
Easy examples: In Kaladesh, red lacked instant speed removal and only with Abrade in Hour of Devastation was that remedied. In Eldritch Moon, there was no graveyard hate which led to several problems and only again in Amonkhet and Hour of Devastation was it remedied.
Standard suffered during Kaladesh/Aether Revolt and Shadows Over Innistrad/Eldritch Moon because of such mistakes made by the R&D teams. Even those two blocks had fundamental flaws that had become accentuated with the blocks that were later released. Such as Emrakul, the Promised End being cheated in with Aetherworks Marvel.
Are we really arguing about whether or not a mechanic that appears to do literally nothing and requires a threshold to be reached is broken purely because, based on one reminder text, we're assuming we know how it works?
Are we going to start arguing about whether or not the iPhone 20 sucks too?
Are we really arguing about whether or not a mechanic that appears to do literally nothing and requires a threshold to be reached is broken purely because, based on one reminder text, we're assuming we know how it works?
Are we going to start arguing about whether or not the iPhone 20 sucks too?
Isn't the reminder text literally there to "remind" you how it works? Yes, it would be prudent to have Wizards explain the mechanic in more detail to clear up any misconceptions that may arise, but "for the rest of the game" sounds pretty permanent to me.
Wonder if this means we will see a modern designed Ward of Bones.
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Isn't the reminder text literally there to "remind" you how it works? Yes, it would be prudent to have Wizards explain the mechanic in more detail to clear up any misconceptions that may arise, but "for the rest of the game" sounds pretty permanent to me.
The thing is... is being permanent really problematic?
In essence this is a threshold mechanic that appears on some cards and once you have reached the threshold you can't go back.
To put that in context let's look at some cards from back when threshold was the actual relevant threshold mechanic re-designed to work like ascend:
Toxic Stench
Instant
Descend (If you have seven or more cards in your graveyard, you gain the underworld's blessing for the rest of the game.)
Target nonblack creature gets -1/-1 until end of turn. If you have the underworld's blessing, instead destroy that creature. It can't be regenerated.
Kirtar's Wrath
Sorcery
Descend (If you have seven or more cards in your graveyard, you gain the underworld's blessing for the rest of the game.)
Destroy all creatures. They can't be regenerated. If you have the underworld's blessing, create two 1/1 white Spirit creature tokens with flying.
Now let's assume further that we will get something we still will get permanents that care on whether the mechanic is turned on, and we will see an interesting change:
Childhood Horror
Creature — Horror
Flying
As long as you have the underworld's blessing, ~ gets +2/+2 and can't block.
2/2
This could happen (in Rivals of Ixalan this could be a decent enough Vampire design). Now as a designer I understand why descend is a preferable mechanic to threshold. Threshold turning on or off in mid of combat -or worse: during the post-combat main phase with combat damage still marked on a creature- can be a problem, especially if it happens multiple times in a game. It is attractive to disable the back and forth between active and inactive. The fact that you have to toggle the state change with a spell also makes it a prominent event less likely to be missed and you can even have a physical token-like reminder that pronounces the new state.
There were quiet a few games where threshold was reached and never lost and those "reach threshold and forget about it" situations are preferable from a board complexity position. If threshold/underworld's blessing cannot be lost, then it is always "gain the blessing and forget about counting". The same is the situation with city's blessing.
Now that brings up the question: Is threshold better as an "interactive" mechanic that creates board complexity in exchange for depth or an "uninteractive" mechanic of "reach the threshold and forget about it" style? We have seen interactive thresholds of various types e. g. hellbent, delirium and metalcraft (this one a smaller type-specific relative to ascend). I think it's interesting to look at individual cases and see why there is a benefit to making them interactive e. g. I think hellbent is better interactive almost by coincidence because as a designer I care less about interactivity (e. g. an opponent deactivating hellbent with Vision Skeins) than I care about the individual player's effort to overcome the natural flow of the game that gives you a new card each turn to get rid of.
For delirium - as before with threshold/underworld's blessing - I have a harder time making a strict argument like that. Is the complexity of a negative synergy with flashback worth the added depth of interactivity here? The depth while non-zero is often rather shallow - and I feel the complexity is more relevant for a threshold ability depending on an interactive counter like permanents than a relatively uninteractive counter like cards in graveyard.
It seems interactivity was removed on purpose in a case of "make this threshold stick or don't make it at all" - custom card designers that actually playtest similar mechanics will bre able to tell you that similar mechanics often fail to be playable at all due to too much interactivity (when it's too easy for your opponent to turn of your eminent state).
And consider that the solution ascend provides does by no means remove all interactivity at the high level. It does something else instead: Front load interactivity. You are now forced to think about preventing your opponent from reaching the threshold even once and keep instant speed removal at the ready to cast in response to the spell that allows them to ascend. The mechanic adds this other facet to the game: You can have multiple new Childhood Horror-like cards (see above), but ascending/descending does not jut happen üassively by reaching a certain game state - you have to turn it on! You have to invest mana and a card in hand to do so (the current wording implies it's not a keyword action that could appear on a triggered/activated ability on a permanent unless I misread the card).
And that means you get limited opportunities - critical points of success or failure. Decks that can interact with permanents can prevent you from hitting ten, decks that can interact with spells/cards in hand can pluck your state changing spells/cards from you - but they have to be ready. Preplan.
But maybe a dumbed-down game where you can just sit on your board wipe and retroactively remove an opponent's eminent state because you misread their capability to go off before is what you really want.
For me personally things aren't so black-and-white. And the lack of interaction in energy decks seems more of an issue to me since energy is accumulating as well as unconditional: Repeatedly casting and resolving Attune with Aether gave you more energy - evetually resulting in more activations. And you can start gathering energy turn 1 with this mechanic and never fail to grow your capabilities.
The city's blessing both is conditional (on ten permanents), so you have to put work into it towards getting anything at all out of it, and has a low ceiling of one(!), so casting Vona's Hunger repeatedly won't escalate the game state. This suggests to me that from our current position we should consider the city's blessing a potential improvement over the overly pushed energy mechanic in a 1-on-1 comparisson.
It's always possible that a tool is used in an ill-advised fashion, but as far as tools go this is one I am optimistic for. Best-case it will fundamentally shape how we see threshold mechanics in the future. Worst-case... it's still not as inherently dangerou as energy.
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
I get the non-removable argument, but if this is really problematic depends too much on the possible payoff to call it broken already...
We should not forget that the ascend/blessing mechanic will be very parasitic since it's exclusive to rivals, one single small set.
I expect some ascend-cards like Vona's Hunger that could as well just read "do X, if you control 10 or more permanents, do X+ instead" and some minor blessing-dependent cards that won't be worth it to build a deck around (aside from limited).
Isn't the reminder text literally there to "remind" you how it works? Yes, it would be prudent to have Wizards explain the mechanic in more detail to clear up any misconceptions that may arise, but "for the rest of the game" sounds pretty permanent to me.
The thing is... is being permanent really problematic?
I wasn't saying it was a problem or not. I was just pointing out to the guy I was replying to that the reminder text is supposed to clue us in on how it works.
For me the reason is despite how amazing cards are In Certain standard/reprint sets I always end up hearing the same thing when the full set gets revealed and that's "this set sucks"
Most recent for this "iconic masters" very hard to not get a hit in a pack of this (most rares/mythic are value town.)
I 100% agree. The mods will give YOU trolling infractions on account of other users patronizing and belittling you by copying your posts word for word, then those users will complain about anything and everything when any new mechanic is released yet mods do nothing about obvious ***** complaint posting.
I am ******* DONE with this forum. It really is the ******* worst. So bad. Peace out, have fun crying about anything you KIDS can think of when you haven't even played the cards first. **** this.
Children throw temper tantrums, are you acting like a kid while calling others children? There is a great irony in that. Also you and Tekkactus committed a faux pas in that you both just blanketed the entire community composed of millions of members as an irredeemable entity. I'm not even trying to be antagonizing and feel you need a wake up call to realize.
One of the few cards from the most recent sets that will probably make it into my EDH decks. 10 permanents is easy to achieve and the deck I have in mind wants opponents to kill their creatures anyway.
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EDH BRGKresh the BloodbraidedBRG, A box of lands and ideas.
Modern: RG Titanshift. A deck made of cards too stupid for EDH.
Retired: Lots. More than I feel you should suffer through or I should type out.
Are we really arguing about whether or not a mechanic that appears to do literally nothing and requires a threshold to be reached is broken purely because, based on one reminder text, we're assuming we know how it works?
Are we going to start arguing about whether or not the iPhone 20 sucks too?
Isn't the reminder text literally there to "remind" you how it works? Yes, it would be prudent to have Wizards explain the mechanic in more detail to clear up any misconceptions that may arise, but "for the rest of the game" sounds pretty permanent to me.
But it doesn't do anything, for the rest of the game. The City's Blessing might as well say "Your maximum hand size is 7, unless another card changes it. For the rest of the game."
People are crying about the world ending over a do-nothing marker that, to our knowledge, makes an unplayable edict playable in Commander. Can we all calm down about it? If you think the sky is falling, buy an umbrella. If you hate energy, burn a box of Kaladesh. But don't complain about it in a thread about an unrelated mechanic in a set that doesn't likely have any energy cards.
Are we really arguing about whether or not a mechanic that appears to do literally nothing and requires a threshold to be reached is broken purely because, based on one reminder text, we're assuming we know how it works?
Are we going to start arguing about whether or not the iPhone 20 sucks too?
Isn't the reminder text literally there to "remind" you how it works? Yes, it would be prudent to have Wizards explain the mechanic in more detail to clear up any misconceptions that may arise, but "for the rest of the game" sounds pretty permanent to me.
But it doesn't do anything, for the rest of the game. The City's Blessing might as well say "Your maximum hand size is 7, unless another card changes it. For the rest of the game."
People are crying about the world ending over a do-nothing marker that, to our knowledge, makes an unplayable edict playable in Commander. Can we all calm down about it? If you think the sky is falling, buy an umbrella. If you hate energy, burn a box of Kaladesh. But don't complain about it in a thread about an unrelated mechanic in a set that doesn't likely have any energy cards.
Energy was a mechanic slated originally for Mirrodin 1.0, they decided against it and replaced Energy with Charge Counters. The problem was that Energy was not interactive back in 2003. Lo and behold, just 13 years later when they released energy, it still wasn't an interactive mechanic and caused problems in standard.
I can only imagine the Ascend was the exact same way where it was originally slated for a different block but was deemed counteractive.
The reason Energy is correlated to Ascend is how its a mechanic that is less interactive. Even the old school mechanic called Threshold has more interactivity to it and that was all about reaching 7+ cards in the yard AND that mechanic during its hay-day still had some attempts at graveyard hate towards it.
Are we really arguing about whether or not a mechanic that appears to do literally nothing and requires a threshold to be reached is broken purely because, based on one reminder text, we're assuming we know how it works?
Are we going to start arguing about whether or not the iPhone 20 sucks too?
Isn't the reminder text literally there to "remind" you how it works? Yes, it would be prudent to have Wizards explain the mechanic in more detail to clear up any misconceptions that may arise, but "for the rest of the game" sounds pretty permanent to me.
But it doesn't do anything, for the rest of the game. The City's Blessing might as well say "Your maximum hand size is 7, unless another card changes it. For the rest of the game."
People are crying about the world ending over a do-nothing marker that, to our knowledge, makes an unplayable edict playable in Commander. Can we all calm down about it? If you think the sky is falling, buy an umbrella. If you hate energy, burn a box of Kaladesh. But don't complain about it in a thread about an unrelated mechanic in a set that doesn't likely have any energy cards.
Energy was a mechanic slated originally for Mirrodin 1.0, they decided against it and replaced Energy with Charge Counters. The problem was that Energy was not interactive back in 2003. Lo and behold, just 13 years later when they released energy, it still wasn't an interactive mechanic and caused problems in standard.
This isn't energy. Not even close.
I can only imagine the Ascend was the exact same way where it was originally slated for a different block but was deemed counteractive.
MaRo has confirmed multiple times that it was designed for this block.
The reason Energy is correlated to Ascend is how its a mechanic that is less interactive. Even the old school mechanic called Threshold has more interactivity to it and that was all about reaching 7+ cards in the yard AND that mechanic during its hay-day still had some attempts at graveyard hate towards it.
How is it less interactive? Short of countering energy spells, you can't stop them from getting it. Ascend you can always keep them off of 10 permanents. Easier to do than hate on a graveyard.
Also, of note, Ascend can't scale. It is an on/ off switch that starts at off. The problems with energy aren't about it not being interactive. The spells just scale too well.
Again, if you want to cry about energy, stop wasting our time in a thread about a completely different mechanic in a completely different set.
As for the reminder text, remember, reminder text is shorthand. All creatures have "You control this creature for the rest of the game" implicitly, but they too can be taken away. Just a thought. We've been given incomplete reminder text a dozen times or more.
How is it less interactive? Short of countering energy spells, you can't stop them from getting it. Ascend you can always keep them off of 10 permanents. Easier to do than hate on a graveyard.
You can always counter the Aetherworks Marvel or the spell they cast off it...
You can always keep them from getting delirium...
You can always counter Saheeli Rai or Felidar Guardian...
Less interactive refers to both Ascend and Energy. If you'll recall, when delirium was a deal there was no way to interact with the graveyard. That was the problem.
No one is panicking, but experienced players are noticing that they're introducing another mechanic or in this case GAME STATE you cannot change. The recent past hasn't gone well. Why get all bunched about it? We all want the game to be better, it hasn't really lived up lately though has it?
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The inserted text was to prove a point. Etherium Sage gets it, see his post.
Yes, for many years.
That's flaming. See above answer.
Wrong. Ascend is different than accruing energy and using it however it is an emblem that allows you extra benefits from cards. Longtusk Cub is a 2/2 for 1G, but with energy it's much more. Vona's Hunger is a sac one creature at instant. With Ascend it has much more potential.
Other than Solenmity you cannot interact with Energy. 'Until the end of the game' smacks of zero interaction. Liken it to Delerium with no cards that hate the GY if the stretch is too far for you.
That's meant to denigrate me and implies that young people are always unreasonable. That's also flaming, my age is irrelevant however I played MTG when it was first released.
If you don't agree with me great, but flaming and telling people you don't agree with to shut it aren't part of discussion.
Kinda veering off subject here but...
At my LGS around Tarkir time and leading to it we had 30 playing standard every FNM.
CoCo and the shorter card cycle flushed a bunch into Modern.
Aetherworks Marvel and infinite combo made it worse, boring and bad standard made it worse.
Now we have 30+ playing Modern and standard frequently doesn't fire.
Ascend (If you control ten or more permanents, you get the city's blessing for the rest of the game.)
The way this is presented, Ascend is defined by (x), usually inside the parenthesis the text is the same but the cost can be varied such as:
Embalm 5UU (5UU, Exile this card from your graveyard: Create a token that's a copy of it, except it's a white Zombie Sphinx with no mana cost. Embalm only as a sorcery.)
Embalm is the keyword described in () and the cost is included inside and outside.
Aside from all that 'for the rest of the game' is quite specific. There's nothing there that'd make me think someone can take an emblem from you which says on it 'Once you have achieved - blah blah - is yours to wield forever.'
It's a game state change that you either take advantage of by playing more cards with Ascend or not.
Kinda like playing cards that use energy or not.
Obviously there will be a lot more cards that use Ascend. We will see if any go too far or not, or if the combination of a bunch of them used together goes to far or not. From what we know (which yes, it's early) it looks like game state changes permanently for the 'ascended'... kinda like delirium with no GY hate.
Players: *RIOT*
But in all seriousness, let's keep it civil, eh?
Do you not interact with their permanents? I mean if it is such a big deal for you and your group, just ban the card from your play group. I actually like the card and look forward to both winning with and losing to it.
Turn 4: Desert, Hour of Promise, fetch two deserts, make two zombies. (7 lands, 2 creatures)
Turn 5: Land, [Ascend Card] (8 lands, 2 creatures)
The only things you can interact with are the two zombies unless you are actually packing land destruction. If both zombies are destroyed, I am still 8/10 on ascending. Turn 5 could be anything that makes two permanents show up on the board. Most land destruction in standard 4+ mana with the only exception being Field of Ruin at 3 mana.
This is just in standard. Its easier to reach ascendancy out of standard at a sooner turn with just ramping. While there is more potent land destruction outside of standard, land destruction is usually frowned upon and discouraged. Effectively a Catch-22.
Haha remind me to never let you cook me a meal, or allow you to make any kind of design choice when it comes to games like magic :P.
Easy examples: In Kaladesh, red lacked instant speed removal and only with Abrade in Hour of Devastation was that remedied. In Eldritch Moon, there was no graveyard hate which led to several problems and only again in Amonkhet and Hour of Devastation was it remedied.
Standard suffered during Kaladesh/Aether Revolt and Shadows Over Innistrad/Eldritch Moon because of such mistakes made by the R&D teams. Even those two blocks had fundamental flaws that had become accentuated with the blocks that were later released. Such as Emrakul, the Promised End being cheated in with Aetherworks Marvel.
Are we going to start arguing about whether or not the iPhone 20 sucks too?
Fix'd
Isn't the reminder text literally there to "remind" you how it works? Yes, it would be prudent to have Wizards explain the mechanic in more detail to clear up any misconceptions that may arise, but "for the rest of the game" sounds pretty permanent to me.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
The thing is... is being permanent really problematic?
In essence this is a threshold mechanic that appears on some cards and once you have reached the threshold you can't go back.
To put that in context let's look at some cards from back when threshold was the actual relevant threshold mechanic re-designed to work like ascend:
Toxic Stench
Instant
Descend (If you have seven or more cards in your graveyard, you gain the underworld's blessing for the rest of the game.)
Target nonblack creature gets -1/-1 until end of turn. If you have the underworld's blessing, instead destroy that creature. It can't be regenerated.
Kirtar's Wrath
Sorcery
Descend (If you have seven or more cards in your graveyard, you gain the underworld's blessing for the rest of the game.)
Destroy all creatures. They can't be regenerated. If you have the underworld's blessing, create two 1/1 white Spirit creature tokens with flying.
Now let's assume further that we will get something we still will get permanents that care on whether the mechanic is turned on, and we will see an interesting change:
Childhood Horror
Creature — Horror
Flying
As long as you have the underworld's blessing, ~ gets +2/+2 and can't block.
2/2
This could happen (in Rivals of Ixalan this could be a decent enough Vampire design). Now as a designer I understand why descend is a preferable mechanic to threshold. Threshold turning on or off in mid of combat -or worse: during the post-combat main phase with combat damage still marked on a creature- can be a problem, especially if it happens multiple times in a game. It is attractive to disable the back and forth between active and inactive. The fact that you have to toggle the state change with a spell also makes it a prominent event less likely to be missed and you can even have a physical token-like reminder that pronounces the new state.
There were quiet a few games where threshold was reached and never lost and those "reach threshold and forget about it" situations are preferable from a board complexity position. If threshold/underworld's blessing cannot be lost, then it is always "gain the blessing and forget about counting". The same is the situation with city's blessing.
Now that brings up the question: Is threshold better as an "interactive" mechanic that creates board complexity in exchange for depth or an "uninteractive" mechanic of "reach the threshold and forget about it" style? We have seen interactive thresholds of various types e. g. hellbent, delirium and metalcraft (this one a smaller type-specific relative to ascend). I think it's interesting to look at individual cases and see why there is a benefit to making them interactive e. g. I think hellbent is better interactive almost by coincidence because as a designer I care less about interactivity (e. g. an opponent deactivating hellbent with Vision Skeins) than I care about the individual player's effort to overcome the natural flow of the game that gives you a new card each turn to get rid of.
For delirium - as before with threshold/underworld's blessing - I have a harder time making a strict argument like that. Is the complexity of a negative synergy with flashback worth the added depth of interactivity here? The depth while non-zero is often rather shallow - and I feel the complexity is more relevant for a threshold ability depending on an interactive counter like permanents than a relatively uninteractive counter like cards in graveyard.
It seems interactivity was removed on purpose in a case of "make this threshold stick or don't make it at all" - custom card designers that actually playtest similar mechanics will bre able to tell you that similar mechanics often fail to be playable at all due to too much interactivity (when it's too easy for your opponent to turn of your eminent state).
And consider that the solution ascend provides does by no means remove all interactivity at the high level. It does something else instead: Front load interactivity. You are now forced to think about preventing your opponent from reaching the threshold even once and keep instant speed removal at the ready to cast in response to the spell that allows them to ascend. The mechanic adds this other facet to the game: You can have multiple new Childhood Horror-like cards (see above), but ascending/descending does not jut happen üassively by reaching a certain game state - you have to turn it on! You have to invest mana and a card in hand to do so (the current wording implies it's not a keyword action that could appear on a triggered/activated ability on a permanent unless I misread the card).
And that means you get limited opportunities - critical points of success or failure. Decks that can interact with permanents can prevent you from hitting ten, decks that can interact with spells/cards in hand can pluck your state changing spells/cards from you - but they have to be ready. Preplan.
But maybe a dumbed-down game where you can just sit on your board wipe and retroactively remove an opponent's eminent state because you misread their capability to go off before is what you really want.
For me personally things aren't so black-and-white. And the lack of interaction in energy decks seems more of an issue to me since energy is accumulating as well as unconditional: Repeatedly casting and resolving Attune with Aether gave you more energy - evetually resulting in more activations. And you can start gathering energy turn 1 with this mechanic and never fail to grow your capabilities.
The city's blessing both is conditional (on ten permanents), so you have to put work into it towards getting anything at all out of it, and has a low ceiling of one(!), so casting Vona's Hunger repeatedly won't escalate the game state. This suggests to me that from our current position we should consider the city's blessing a potential improvement over the overly pushed energy mechanic in a 1-on-1 comparisson.
It's always possible that a tool is used in an ill-advised fashion, but as far as tools go this is one I am optimistic for. Best-case it will fundamentally shape how we see threshold mechanics in the future. Worst-case... it's still not as inherently dangerou as energy.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
Don't get me wrong, I'm ok with criticism, I'm just constantly amazed at how personal people get over it.
EDIT: Oh, and props to SecretInfiltrator above for the essay-like post. Interesting discussion of the pros and cons of interactivity. +1
We should not forget that the ascend/blessing mechanic will be very parasitic since it's exclusive to rivals, one single small set.
I expect some ascend-cards like Vona's Hunger that could as well just read "do X, if you control 10 or more permanents, do X+ instead" and some minor blessing-dependent cards that won't be worth it to build a deck around (aside from limited).
W(W/U)U Ephara - Flash & Taxes W(W/U)U || B(B/G)G Meren - Circle of Life B(B/G)G
RGW Marath - Ever shifting Wilds RGW || (U/R)C(W/B) Breya - Artificial Dominion (U/R)C(W/B)
UBR Becket Brass - take what you can, give nothing back UBR
I wasn't saying it was a problem or not. I was just pointing out to the guy I was replying to that the reminder text is supposed to clue us in on how it works.
Words of wisdom
For me the reason is despite how amazing cards are In Certain standard/reprint sets I always end up hearing the same thing when the full set gets revealed and that's "this set sucks"
Most recent for this "iconic masters" very hard to not get a hit in a pack of this (most rares/mythic are value town.)
BRGKresh the BloodbraidedBRG, A box of lands and ideas.
Modern:
RG Titanshift. A deck made of cards too stupid for EDH.
Retired: Lots. More than I feel you should suffer through or I should type out.
But it doesn't do anything, for the rest of the game. The City's Blessing might as well say "Your maximum hand size is 7, unless another card changes it. For the rest of the game."
People are crying about the world ending over a do-nothing marker that, to our knowledge, makes an unplayable edict playable in Commander. Can we all calm down about it? If you think the sky is falling, buy an umbrella. If you hate energy, burn a box of Kaladesh. But don't complain about it in a thread about an unrelated mechanic in a set that doesn't likely have any energy cards.
I can only imagine the Ascend was the exact same way where it was originally slated for a different block but was deemed counteractive.
The reason Energy is correlated to Ascend is how its a mechanic that is less interactive. Even the old school mechanic called Threshold has more interactivity to it and that was all about reaching 7+ cards in the yard AND that mechanic during its hay-day still had some attempts at graveyard hate towards it.
This isn't energy. Not even close.
MaRo has confirmed multiple times that it was designed for this block.
How is it less interactive? Short of countering energy spells, you can't stop them from getting it. Ascend you can always keep them off of 10 permanents. Easier to do than hate on a graveyard.
Also, of note, Ascend can't scale. It is an on/ off switch that starts at off. The problems with energy aren't about it not being interactive. The spells just scale too well.
Again, if you want to cry about energy, stop wasting our time in a thread about a completely different mechanic in a completely different set.
As for the reminder text, remember, reminder text is shorthand. All creatures have "You control this creature for the rest of the game" implicitly, but they too can be taken away. Just a thought. We've been given incomplete reminder text a dozen times or more.
You can always counter the Aetherworks Marvel or the spell they cast off it...
You can always keep them from getting delirium...
You can always counter Saheeli Rai or Felidar Guardian...
Less interactive refers to both Ascend and Energy. If you'll recall, when delirium was a deal there was no way to interact with the graveyard. That was the problem.
No one is panicking, but experienced players are noticing that they're introducing another mechanic or in this case GAME STATE you cannot change. The recent past hasn't gone well. Why get all bunched about it? We all want the game to be better, it hasn't really lived up lately though has it?