I'm not liking Ascend. In fact I'm hating all these strange uninteractive mechanics that's been popping up all over the place that leaves random emblems to play with. Can't we just go back to magic cards and tap 2 mana for a Grizzly Bear?
Preach it!
Also it reminds me a bit of the "Hexproof vs Shroud" arguments. As with hexproof, while it is interactive for the controller, its not for the opponent. Which creates snowball situations like Slippery Bogle if not immediately dealt with. While shroud prevented interacting with the creature in question for both players but it also had less of a chance of snowballing out of control.
I can see similar problems with this. As its not exactly hard to get 10 permanents in standard. Especially if G is in the mix as if you ramp up with stuff like Hour of Promise, you are already 7/10 permanents away from reaching the goal, 9/10 if you tutored up two deserts in order to make two zombies. Have like one other permanent or ramp spell and you have completed the requirement by turn 4-5 and reap the benefits on turn 5-6.
Which reminds me of the problems with Aetherworks Marvel as with it was a race to get powerful spells out sooner than expected.
I've been saying since Gideon, Ally of Zendikar came out that we would be getting some way to interact with emblems eventually, I am betting we see some sort of Emblem/Energy/Blessing of the City effect in the core set.
Really like this for EDH. *Each* opponent sacrifices a creature is already not bad for 2B, but with ascend it is just great.
I don't think ascend/city's blessing is uninteractive. An opponent can destroy your permanents to keep you further from ascending (or possibly even in response to an ascend spell). After you ascend, an opponent can play their own ascend spell.
Sure it's good in Yahenni, but think about it in Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest. If you pull it off it may end the game on the spot with a craterhoof-esque bonus to your whole team plus eliminating lots of potential blockers.
I think they’re running out of design space in this game...
Why do you say that? How would you design a mechanic? Way to add something to the discussion, really helps everyone out. Super positive contribution to just say "they're running out of design space". Ugh.
For like the 927372893847 time in every spoiler season, play with the actual cards before you kids start your complaints.
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I'm not liking Ascend. In fact I'm hating all these strange uninteractive mechanics that's been popping up all over the place that leaves random emblems to play with. Can't we just go back to magic cards and tap 2 mana for a Grizzly Bear?
I think they’re running out of design space in this game...
Every time there's a new mechanic some will call it boring, some will call it overly complicated, though I doubt MtG is at the end of its design space, consider how much restraint developers put on themselves for "balance" and "approachable"'s sake.
"You get the city's blessing for the rest of the game"... Reading this, there might be only 1 City's blessing to share. The text could totally mean that if you get the blessing, then your opponent plays an Ascend spell he will "get THE city's blessing for the rest of the game".
Remember how the monarch mechanic was supposed to be an iteration of that? You pass the monarch around, you might as well pass the city's blessing as well. That would make it a bit more interactive. Sure, as long as you have 10 permanents it doesn't matter, but if your opponent steals it and then kills some of your stuff you might not be able to ascend again.
"You get the city's blessing for the rest of the game"... Reading this, there might be only 1 City's blessing to share. The text could totally mean that if you get the blessing, then your opponent plays an Ascend spell he will "get THE city's blessing for the rest of the game".
Remember how the monarch mechanic was supposed to be an iteration of that? You pass the monarch around, you might as well pass the city's blessing as well. That would make it a bit more interactive. Sure, as long as you have 10 permanents it doesn't matter, but if your opponent steals it and then kills some of your stuff you might not be able to ascend again.
I would like to believe it, but it would need to read "you gain control of the city's blessing for the rest of the game."
The wording, at least to me, implies that both players can achieve the ascended state and have the blessing rather than being a tug of war game.
Do we know what "city's blessing" does yet? I assume it's like "Monarch," but....
It's not outlined yet but from the look of this card, if you've achieved the condition for Ascend, which gives you the blessing you get an extra or greater effect from certain spells.
It's likely that you and your opponent can have the blessing as it's an ability resulting from likely many cards with Ascend.
Do we know what "city's blessing" does yet? I assume it's like "Monarch," but....
It's not outlined yet but from the look of this card, if you've achieved the condition for Ascend, which gives you the blessing you get an extra or greater effect from certain spells.
It's likely that you and your opponent can have the blessing as it's an ability resulting from likely many cards with Ascend.
More swingy, non-interactive mechanics??
Thanks R&D for vindicating my decision to leave Standard behind forever!!
This seems frustratingly overpowered for multiplayer. I really wish they were more careful when they printed "Each Opponent". A 3 mana instant which in an EDH game is very commonly an immediate City's Blessing should not force a sacrifice of half the opponent's armies (rounded up!). This should have been Target Player or Target Opponent.
So not only will you receive the city's blessing (I presume they mean Orazca) for the rest of the game (upon resolution) but each opponent has to sacrifice half their creatures rounded up? At instant speed? For only 2B? Token decks just became more lethal--this was the kind of effect black/white Vampires was needing to put itself over the top.
Dangit. I basically just suggested someone to change one of their mechanics in a custom set to ascend... except it didn't count all permanent types. ^^
This definitely seems like a second choice to monarch. At least all players can ascend and don't have to race each other for it. Dragonball Z custom sets will get to use this.
When the "bread and butter" cards for decks are taken away from standard, that is why I have a gripe about it.
How long is eating bread and butter going to sustain fun? Not long. It's nice to have the game we love evolve over time so that we never feel like it's getting stale like constant bread and butter. The "this game used to be about spells not creatures" thing is an issue I don't really care about. I care about Magic. If I want to play only noncreature spells or only creature spells I can still do that. And so can others. I miss Rampant Growth but it's still out there in Magic. Standard is different. Good.
Bread and Butter is what make your decks function well. Its not always flashy but its whats necessary. if you actually cared about MTG like you say you do, you would understand that this an ongoing problem. You say difference is good but I don't believe you.
A solid foundation is needed to be there in order to make sets run more smoothly. The removal of the core set created more problems in Standard ever since Magic Origins rotated out. Core Sets are what kept standard mostly healthy and core sets are where many of these "boring but necessary" cards lived.
You want the junk food and lobster dinners? You got to eat the boring food as well as its good for you.
But it's not like your wheat bread and butter went away without replacement, you have rye bread and margarine now. To be honest the cards mentioned as "bread and butter" (e. g. Lightning Bolt) are actually quite more than that - it's candy. It's something you always want, but that you don't always get because it's not good for you if you have it all the time to the exclusion of other nourishment.
And they make candy products, too. They just decided to make the eternal formats the candy stores. Many people are really fine with that.
The fact that they got rid of Core Sets though is problematic. That's why they are coming back and you'll have a new
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
Okay stupid rules question, because I’m not sure if I got it right, if I cast this card while controlling ten or more permanents, I get the blessing and my opponents must sacrifice half their creatures, right? Or is it that this card only cares about the blessing that I have, before casting it?
There is an "if" clause in the text. If lose the City's Blessing before it resolves and you dont have 10 permanents its only 1 creature. But if you have lose the blessing while its on the stack but you have 10 permanents the first part of the card will give you the blessing again..
How do you lose The City's Blessing?
My bet is that someone else uses a card with Ascend and then they get the Blessing until they lose it, or it's possible that multiple people can have it.
Do we know what "city's blessing" does yet? I assume it's like "Monarch," but....
It's not outlined yet but from the look of this card, if you've achieved the condition for Ascend, which gives you the blessing you get an extra or greater effect from certain spells.
It's likely that you and your opponent can have the blessing as it's an ability resulting from likely many cards with Ascend.
More swingy, non-interactive mechanics??
Thanks R&D for vindicating my decision to leave Standard behind forever!!
You do realize that if Ascend ends up being any good, it may have a presence in other formats, right?
My bet is that someone else uses a card with Ascend and then they get the Blessing until they lose it, or it's possible that multiple people can have it.
The City's Blessing card literally says that the power is yours "forever", and the reminder text for Ascend also says something similar if you fulfill the 10+ permanent requirement. Unless it's lying or exaggerating, it means that you have the blessing as a virtual emblem for the rest of the game.
I'm not liking Ascend. In fact I'm hating all these strange uninteractive mechanics that's been popping up all over the place that leaves random emblems to play with. Can't we just go back to magic cards and tap 2 mana for a Grizzly Bear?
It's a way to do transform/modal/multi-use spells without making it feel like transform/modal/multi-use spells. They are constantly looking for new ways to create cards that:
1) provide as many options/choice as possible on the same card. *and at different stages of the game*
2) provide a way to break stalemates and push the game toward its conclusion.
#2 is increasingly important as the game becomes more and more mid-range slugfest over time. (It is.)
I don't disagree with you entirely but I think cards like this are where Magic is probably headed over time.
The biggest problem *I* have with designs like this is that teach new players a terrible lesson: Flood the board. Empty your hand. Overextend. Frankly, that is a very bad thing to teach them.
The only question I have is whether there can be two cities blessing (i.e. can both you and your opponent have it). Or is it just a race to see who gets it for the game.
Interesting for sure - especially ten permanents - makes treasure a lot more interesting and strategic about whether to burn it early.
Might also mean that there is a push away from aggro in limited if the set revolves around 10 permanents mattering it would be crazy if the limited format is the same speed as it is now - because 10 permanents are not happening much in my ixalan drafts
Do we know what "city's blessing" does yet? I assume it's like "Monarch," but....
It's not outlined yet but from the look of this card, if you've achieved the condition for Ascend, which gives you the blessing you get an extra or greater effect from certain spells.
It's likely that you and your opponent can have the blessing as it's an ability resulting from likely many cards with Ascend.
More swingy, non-interactive mechanics??
Thanks R&D for vindicating my decision to leave Standard behind forever!!
You do realize that if Ascend ends up being any good, it may have a presence in other formats, right?
My bet is that someone else uses a card with Ascend and then they get the Blessing until they lose it, or it's possible that multiple people can have it.
The City's Blessing card literally says that the power is yours "forever", and the reminder text for Ascend also says something similar if you fulfill the 10+ permanent requirement. Unless it's lying or exaggerating, it means that you have the blessing as a virtual emblem for the rest of the game.
They have to specify a duration and in this case it's indefinitely. That doesn't mean you can't lose it via someone else gaining it or another cards effect.
The other thing i realized is that there is no reason why each tribe couldn't have a different way of getting the city's blessing
Vampires - Ascend (need 10 permanents)
Dinosaurs - Stampede (need 10 toughness)
Pirates - Barter - (need a certain amount of treasure)
Merfolk - Evolve (need a certain amount of +1 counters)
just a thought.
no, this is it. If it were worded as an ability word you could have it like that but as a keyword, every card will be 10 permanents.
Now as for the cards impact on commander, yeah, it is decent but people already play Wrath, Doj, and Damnation in the same deck and by the time you have 10 permanents you can usually cast plague wind/in garruk's wake for a better effect.it's a nice card but I'd save the outrage for some other theoretical ascend card that is truly going to warp the format. I'm not really sure it would be a slam dunk in commander even if the ascend effect we're the only one. Yeah 50% for all opponent's at instant for 3 is spicy but in a lot of my experience, people often enough have huge token swarms or one super threatening creature. I'm not really sure its actually even an ideal card to run.
I seriously doubt it works like monarch. That was a specific mechanic for an offbeat draft set and had a reason to work like that to encourage attacking in multiplayer. Ascend working like that would fly in the face of the legend/walker change, lords/slivers and the printing of mostly beneficial effects outside of wraths.
You could have different named keywords to get the cities blessing. Different condition to get cities blessing - but I agree it seems like it would be unlikely and hard to remember.
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I've been saying since Gideon, Ally of Zendikar came out that we would be getting some way to interact with emblems eventually, I am betting we see some sort of Emblem/Energy/Blessing of the City effect in the core set.
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I don't think ascend/city's blessing is uninteractive. An opponent can destroy your permanents to keep you further from ascending (or possibly even in response to an ascend spell). After you ascend, an opponent can play their own ascend spell.
Sure it's good in Yahenni, but think about it in Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest. If you pull it off it may end the game on the spot with a craterhoof-esque bonus to your whole team plus eliminating lots of potential blockers.
Why do you say that? How would you design a mechanic? Way to add something to the discussion, really helps everyone out. Super positive contribution to just say "they're running out of design space". Ugh.
For like the 927372893847 time in every spoiler season, play with the actual cards before you kids start your complaints.
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Every time there's a new mechanic some will call it boring, some will call it overly complicated, though I doubt MtG is at the end of its design space, consider how much restraint developers put on themselves for "balance" and "approachable"'s sake.
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Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
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Remember how the monarch mechanic was supposed to be an iteration of that? You pass the monarch around, you might as well pass the city's blessing as well. That would make it a bit more interactive. Sure, as long as you have 10 permanents it doesn't matter, but if your opponent steals it and then kills some of your stuff you might not be able to ascend again.
The wording, at least to me, implies that both players can achieve the ascended state and have the blessing rather than being a tug of war game.
It's not outlined yet but from the look of this card, if you've achieved the condition for Ascend, which gives you the blessing you get an extra or greater effect from certain spells.
It's likely that you and your opponent can have the blessing as it's an ability resulting from likely many cards with Ascend.
More swingy, non-interactive mechanics??
Thanks R&D for vindicating my decision to leave Standard behind forever!!
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/just-ixalan-part-1-2017-09-04
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/card-preview/conquering-design-ixalan-2017-09-05
Edit: uploaded City's Blessing
Source: https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/rivals-ixalan-promos-packaging-and-more-2017-12-11
This definitely seems like a second choice to monarch. At least all players can ascend and don't have to race each other for it. Dragonball Z custom sets will get to use this.
But it's not like your wheat bread and butter went away without replacement, you have rye bread and margarine now. To be honest the cards mentioned as "bread and butter" (e. g. Lightning Bolt) are actually quite more than that - it's candy. It's something you always want, but that you don't always get because it's not good for you if you have it all the time to the exclusion of other nourishment.
And they make candy products, too. They just decided to make the eternal formats the candy stores. Many people are really fine with that.
The fact that they got rid of Core Sets though is problematic. That's why they are coming back and you'll have a new
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My bet is that someone else uses a card with Ascend and then they get the Blessing until they lose it, or it's possible that multiple people can have it.
You do realize that if Ascend ends up being any good, it may have a presence in other formats, right?
The City's Blessing card literally says that the power is yours "forever", and the reminder text for Ascend also says something similar if you fulfill the 10+ permanent requirement. Unless it's lying or exaggerating, it means that you have the blessing as a virtual emblem for the rest of the game.
It's a way to do transform/modal/multi-use spells without making it feel like transform/modal/multi-use spells. They are constantly looking for new ways to create cards that:
1) provide as many options/choice as possible on the same card. *and at different stages of the game*
2) provide a way to break stalemates and push the game toward its conclusion.
#2 is increasingly important as the game becomes more and more mid-range slugfest over time. (It is.)
I don't disagree with you entirely but I think cards like this are where Magic is probably headed over time.
The biggest problem *I* have with designs like this is that teach new players a terrible lesson: Flood the board. Empty your hand. Overextend. Frankly, that is a very bad thing to teach them.
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Interesting for sure - especially ten permanents - makes treasure a lot more interesting and strategic about whether to burn it early.
Might also mean that there is a push away from aggro in limited if the set revolves around 10 permanents mattering it would be crazy if the limited format is the same speed as it is now - because 10 permanents are not happening much in my ixalan drafts
Vampires - Ascend (need 10 permanents)
Dinosaurs - Stampede (need 10 toughness)
Pirates - Barter - (need a certain amount of treasure)
Merfolk - Evolve (need a certain amount of +1 counters)
just a thought.
They have to specify a duration and in this case it's indefinitely. That doesn't mean you can't lose it via someone else gaining it or another cards effect.
Now as for the cards impact on commander, yeah, it is decent but people already play Wrath, Doj, and Damnation in the same deck and by the time you have 10 permanents you can usually cast plague wind/in garruk's wake for a better effect.it's a nice card but I'd save the outrage for some other theoretical ascend card that is truly going to warp the format. I'm not really sure it would be a slam dunk in commander even if the ascend effect we're the only one. Yeah 50% for all opponent's at instant for 3 is spicy but in a lot of my experience, people often enough have huge token swarms or one super threatening creature. I'm not really sure its actually even an ideal card to run.
I seriously doubt it works like monarch. That was a specific mechanic for an offbeat draft set and had a reason to work like that to encourage attacking in multiplayer. Ascend working like that would fly in the face of the legend/walker change, lords/slivers and the printing of mostly beneficial effects outside of wraths.