[quote]How is it less interactive? Short of countering energy spells, you can't stop them from getting it. Ascend you can always keep them off of 10 permanents. Easier to do than hate on a graveyard.
You can always counter the Aetherworks Marvel or the spell they cast off it...
You can always keep them from getting delirium...
You can always counter Saheeli Rai or Felidar Guardian...
I mentioned that countering was harder than keeping them off ten permanents, and you go off on a sarcastic tangent about... What exactly?
Less interactive refers to both Ascend and Energy. If you'll recall, when delirium was a deal there was no way to interact with the graveyard. That was the problem.
Less interactive than what? Energy isn't an issue because it isn't interactive. It just scales too well. And Ascend "not being interactive" makes no sense. By the same logic, Nimbus Wings isn't interactive, because without destroying permanent, it will work. The interaction is there. You can do any number of things to keep an opponents permanent count low without usually adding specific hate to your deck.
No one is panicking, but experienced players are noticing that they're introducing another mechanic or in this case GAME STATE you cannot change. The recent past hasn't gone well. Why get all bunched about it? We all want the game to be better, it hasn't really lived up lately though has it?
So far you've whined about Energy, from two blocks ago, Delirium, which isn't even in standard anymore, and Ascend, a mechanic you don't know anything about. All because you apparently seem to think they're the same. Or similar. They're not.
The fact that you can't think of ways to interact with the number of permanents your opponent controls, or think that a small upgrade to a few cards is going to continue a negative trend you seem to believe in doesn't really make me think that you are using the word "experienced" correctly.
Anyways, this, again, is not the thread for you to cry about every mechanic in the last 4 years that you dislike, nor is it the correct place for crying about standard. Tissue?
Less interactive than what? Energy isn't an issue because it isn't interactive. It just scales too well.
So far you've whined about Energy
and you whine about whiners. Tragic/comedic irony.
from two blocks ago, Delirium, which isn't even in standard anymore
So because its not in standard, its someone elses problem, right?
and Ascend, a mechanic you don't know anything about.
1) Ten permanents to reach condition
2) Multiple players can Ascend and don't need to fight over it based on wording.
3) The blessing is permanent like an emblem.
4) Cards get improved benefits if you have ascended.
All because you apparently seem to think they're the same. Or similar. They're not.
The energy card itself does nothing just like the blessing card. However the owners cards can be affected by both.
The fact that you can't think of ways to interact with the number of permanents your opponent controls, or think that a small upgrade to a few cards is going to continue a negative trend you seem to believe in doesn't really make me think that you are using the word "experienced" correctly.
Ah yes oh great sultan of wisdom, dispense onto us your vast knowledge for you obviously understand the mechanic perfectly and we do not.
Anyways, this, again, is not the thread for you to cry about every mechanic in the last 4 years that you dislike
And this is not the correct thread for you to be crying.
nor is it the correct place for crying about standard.
Funny, as this is rumor mill where people tend to share there thoughts about all formats and the given uses of a card. Like in standard. What a shock right?
Tissue?
Yeah I have a box of them for you as you're going to need them.
Energy was a mechanic slated originally for Mirrodin 1.0, they decided against it and replaced Energy with Charge Counters. The problem was that Energy was not interactive back in 2003. Lo and behold, just 13 years later when they released energy, it still wasn't an interactive mechanic and caused problems in standard.
Quote from Kaladesh Ingredients, Part 1 | MAGIC: THE GATHERING »
Bill liked the design but felt it had too much going on. Something had to be pulled. Energy took up a lot of space and Bill liked other mechanics more, so he told me to remove it. I put up a fight, as I liked energy, but I realized he was right that the set was overstuffed and energy was less intertwined than other mechanics, meaning it would be easier to take out.[...]
I knew energy was a good mechanic, so I kept a lookout for where we could use it. It actually got into the design of Shards of Alara for a little while (part of Esper if I remember correctly), but it wasn't a perfect fit, and it wanted to use more space than the set allowed, so once again the mechanic was pulled.
"The problem" was twice space reasons as far as I can tell. Unless you use the phrase "the problem" differently than I do and/or use another source to support your statement about the mechanics history. In which case that would be good to know.
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
Less interactive than what? Energy isn't an issue because it isn't interactive. It just scales too well.
Awww it's okay. You don't need to explain. Even if you could.
So far you've whined about Energy
and you whine about whiners. Tragic/comedic irony.
Source?
from two blocks ago, Delirium, which isn't even in standard anymore
So because its not in standard, its someone elses problem, right?
It definitely makes it feels much less relevant.
and Ascend, a mechanic you don't know anything about.
1) Ten permanents to reach condition
Upon resolution? ETB? Activation?
2) Multiple players can Ascend and don't need to fight over it based on wording.
Because reminder text matters. See Trample, Deathtouch, Protection, Just a second, etc.
3) The blessing is permanent like an emblem.
Source?
4) Cards get improved benefits if you have ascended.
You mean card, right?
All because you apparently seem to think they're the same. Or similar. They're not.
The energy card itself does nothing just like the blessing card. However the owners cards can be affected by both.
Energy can be used to amplify effects on a scale, always a dangerous mechanical execution (see: Storm, Affinity, Modular, etc.) This is obviously an on/ off switch. I thought you knew about this mechanic, pro.
Again, please stay on topic. Or keep looking stupid. Your call I guess.
As for the card itself, it's obviously not broken. My Toshiro Umezawa Commander will enjoy it, but outside of there, it doesn't seem very strong.
It's frankly unbelievable that either side of this argument is getting so worked up over this.
Ascend has the potential to be busted like many other mechanics IMO, so we'll just have to see where they take it. On the other hand, they could treat it like Improvise (which had even greater potential to be ridiculous) and never push it that far.
Hey now, moldervine cloak might not work for the dredge deck but it's pretty sweet and my favorite dredge card. Of course haze Of rage is decent too. An extra power for your whole team for only 2 with storm AND buyback is quite good in limited. Now I can't say for sure there won't be an ascend card that's stupid enough to go crazy trying to set it off in constructed, but most things should be safe as long as you don't do a cheap tooth and nail or something crazy that's going to spawn a combo deck.
So I just realized something, is one faction going to get two ascend cards? As we already Black with Conquistadors. So if we assume something like Dinosaurs = Green, Pirates = Red, Merfolk = Blue. Then who would get the white card?
Well, Vampires did get twocards in a cycle in Ixalan...
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MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Of course it's a huge tempo swing later in the game. But in which shell ?
Control ? No Upside before T9/T8.
Aggro ? OK side card against midrange if the game stalls.
Midrange ? Same comment
Dedicated shell ? Heeeeeey ? Who knows ? Depends on other ascend cards.
Tokens pile cheap creatures on quickly
Artifact/treasure could pile creatures and treasure
Some people have shown ramp with Hour of Promise gets you there nicely.
Control with enchantments, cast out etc can get you there sooner than T9/10
We just have to see what else they created. Vona's itself seems to be a not good enough that could be annoying
The better comparison to Ascend is Delirium without GY hate. It becomes a game state that is irrevocable.
Energy: readily available turn 1 and on, often for zero mana. Abusers come early and often to abuse it.
Delirium: readily available turn 2, often for one or two mana. Abusers come down early, and often.
Ascend: Not happening turn one or two in any normal magic game. Even turns 3-5 are a stretch. After that, anything should be game.
Energy: readily available turn 1 and on, often for zero mana. Abusers come early and often to abuse it.
Delirium: readily available turn 2, often for one or two mana. Abusers come down early, and often.
Ascend: Not happening turn one or two in any normal magic game. Even turns 3-5 are a stretch. After that, anything should be game.
The comparison really isn't that close.
Turn 1: Forest, Burgeoning, play a forest during opponent's turn
Turn 2: Forest, Kodama's Reach, play forest during opponent's turn
Turn 3: Forest, Explosive Vegetation, play forest during opponent's turn.
Turn 4: Ascend
I'm not even doing a christmas land scenario. I can replace any of those cards, aside from the standard land for each turn, with others and still get it done within four turns of just mono green shenanigans. Pretty sure every color has a means to vomit permanents onto the battlefield.
Why are people saying this mechanic is uninteractive? Yes a player gets the blessing permanently and there is likely not going to be a way to remove the blessing but here's the thing, the blessing doesn't do anything by itself. It's a worse planeswalker emblem with cards that say "If you have this, my effect gets better." It doesn't give you a static effect that stays forever like actual emblems do.
You can interact with this the same way you can other cards, through counterspells and playing around them. You can also stop your opponent from getting to 10 permanents on board because every permanent type in the game sans land is open for destruction.
What really gets me is that the first and only card that we have seen with this mechanic IS interaction. Not only is it a card that disrupts your opponent's board, it's creature removal and half a one sided board wipe at instant speed. I thought more removal was what we wanted in what is apparently a midrange slugfest? The funniest part is that if you really don't want your opponent to be able to ascend, this will hamstring their chances of getting it through creatures. Is there something I'm not getting here?
Energy requires other cards to make it work and other than Solemnity cannot be interacted with. Look at Standard now.
This card says 'until the end of the game'.
Track record so far?
CoCo, Emrakul and uncounterable delerium, and Energy.
Planeswalker emblems are usually game ending and cannot be interacted with. I'm not saying this is game ending, however once you have it that's it. Magic is supposed to be interactive.
You have to at least see how people can be leery of things that cannot be interacted with once in the game?
Lets not forget lands are permanents.
Energy is not dependent an any other condition to gain it other than having it. Energy by and large works on the premise that once a card enters the battlefield, you get X energy. Energy does no require other card to make it work in a similar fashion to this. If you cast any card with energy onto an empty board, it has both a way to use and generate energy. If you drop this on an empty board it's going to only have it's first effect unless you for some reason only ramped up to ten lands to play an ascend card. Again I haven't seen anyone actually explain how uninteractive this is. It's a qualifier that turns kn effect into another effect. This card could be "~ deals 2 damage to target creature or player. ~ deals 3 damage to target creature or player instead if you have the city's blessing." for R and it would work on the same premise and I doubt we would have people crying about uninteractive mechanics.
If this was just a card that read "Each opponent sacrifices half of all creatures they control rounded up." for the same cost would we be complaining in the same way or is it just worse for the health of the game since it does a worse version of that effect unless you have a special qualifier?
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"Pop in, find a dragon, roast a dragon."
-Chandra Nalaar
Why are people saying this mechanic is uninteractive? Yes a player gets the blessing permanently and there is likely not going to be a way to remove the blessing but here's the thing, the blessing doesn't do anything by itself. It's a worse planeswalker emblem with cards that say "If you have this, my effect gets better." It doesn't give you a static effect that stays forever like actual emblems do.
You can interact with this the same way you can other cards, through counterspells and playing around them. You can also stop your opponent from getting to 10 permanents on board because every permanent type in the game sans land is open for destruction.
What really gets me is that the first and only card that we have seen with this mechanic IS interaction. Not only is it a card that disrupts your opponent's board, it's creature removal and half a one sided board wipe at instant speed. I thought more removal was what we wanted in what is apparently a midrange slugfest? The funniest part is that if you really don't want your opponent to be able to ascend, this will hamstring their chances of getting it through creatures. Is there something I'm not getting here?
Energy requires other cards to make it work and other than Solemnity cannot be interacted with. Look at Standard now.
This card says 'until the end of the game'.
Track record so far?
CoCo, Emrakul and uncounterable delerium, and Energy.
Planeswalker emblems are usually game ending and cannot be interacted with. I'm not saying this is game ending, however once you have it that's it. Magic is supposed to be interactive.
You have to at least see how people can be leery of things that cannot be interacted with once in the game?
Lets not forget lands are permanents.
Energy is not dependent an any other condition to gain it other than having it. Energy by and large works on the premise that once a card enters the battlefield, you get X energy. Energy does no require other card to make it work in a similar fashion to this. If you cast any card with energy onto an empty board, it has both a way to use and generate energy. If you drop this on an empty board it's going to only have it's first effect unless you for some reason only ramped up to ten lands to play an ascend card. Again I haven't seen anyone actually explain how uninteractive this is. It's a qualifier that turns kn effect into another effect. This card could be "~ deals 2 damage to target creature or player. ~ deals 3 damage to target creature or player instead if you have the city's blessing." for R and it would work on the same premise and I doubt we would have people crying about uninteractive mechanics.
If this was just a card that read "Each opponent sacrifices half of all creatures they control rounded up." for the same cost would we be complaining in the same way or is it just worse for the health of the game since it does a worse version of that effect unless you have a special qualifier?
Maybe they should have printed some energy hate cards? Its like lands except ethereal/untouchable.
Like here is what I brewed in 2 mins:
Energy Hog1R Creature - Gremlin (R)
Haste T: Remove up to three from target player. Then put a +1/+1 counter on Energy Hog for each removed this way. 1/1
Energy: readily available turn 1 and on, often for zero mana. Abusers come early and often to abuse it.
Delirium: readily available turn 2, often for one or two mana. Abusers come down early, and often.
Ascend: Not happening turn one or two in any normal magic game. Even turns 3-5 are a stretch. After that, anything should be game.
The comparison really isn't that close.
Turn 1: Forest, Burgeoning, play a forest during opponent's turn
Turn 2: Forest, Kodama's Reach, play forest during opponent's turn
Turn 3: Forest, Explosive Vegetation, play forest during opponent's turn.
Turn 4: Ascend
I'm not even doing a christmas land scenario. I can replace any of those cards, aside from the standard land for each turn, with others and still get it done within four turns of just mono green shenanigans. Pretty sure every color has a means to vomit permanents onto the battlefield.
"Not magical Xmas land"
Involves playing Burgeoning on turn 1, and playing both a land and a ramp spell 7 turns in a row.
Why are people saying this mechanic is uninteractive? Yes a player gets the blessing permanently and there is likely not going to be a way to remove the blessing but here's the thing, the blessing doesn't do anything by itself. It's a worse planeswalker emblem with cards that say "If you have this, my effect gets better." It doesn't give you a static effect that stays forever like actual emblems do.
You can interact with this the same way you can other cards, through counterspells and playing around them. You can also stop your opponent from getting to 10 permanents on board because every permanent type in the game sans land is open for destruction.
What really gets me is that the first and only card that we have seen with this mechanic IS interaction. Not only is it a card that disrupts your opponent's board, it's creature removal and half a one sided board wipe at instant speed. I thought more removal was what we wanted in what is apparently a midrange slugfest? The funniest part is that if you really don't want your opponent to be able to ascend, this will hamstring their chances of getting it through creatures. Is there something I'm not getting here?
Energy requires other cards to make it work and other than Solemnity cannot be interacted with. Look at Standard now.
This card says 'until the end of the game'.
Track record so far?
CoCo, Emrakul and uncounterable delerium, and Energy.
Planeswalker emblems are usually game ending and cannot be interacted with. I'm not saying this is game ending, however once you have it that's it. Magic is supposed to be interactive.
You have to at least see how people can be leery of things that cannot be interacted with once in the game?
Lets not forget lands are permanents.
Energy is not dependent an any other condition to gain it other than having it. Energy by and large works on the premise that once a card enters the battlefield, you get X energy. Energy does no require other card to make it work in a similar fashion to this. If you cast any card with energy onto an empty board, it has both a way to use and generate energy. If you drop this on an empty board it's going to only have it's first effect unless you for some reason only ramped up to ten lands to play an ascend card. Again I haven't seen anyone actually explain how uninteractive this is. It's a qualifier that turns kn effect into another effect. This card could be "~ deals 2 damage to target creature or player. ~ deals 3 damage to target creature or player instead if you have the city's blessing." for R and it would work on the same premise and I doubt we would have people crying about uninteractive mechanics.
If this was just a card that read "Each opponent sacrifices half of all creatures they control rounded up." for the same cost would we be complaining in the same way or is it just worse for the health of the game since it does a worse version of that effect unless you have a special qualifier?
Maybe they should have printed some energy hate cards? Its like lands except ethereal/untouchable.
Like here is what I brewed in 2 mins:
Energy Hog1R Creature - Gremlin (R)
Haste T: Remove up to three from target player. Then put a +1/+1 counter on Energy Hog for each removed this way. 1/1
So you think a parsititc mechanic should have had parasitic answers?
The problem was never the inability to remove/ punish opponents for gaining energy. The problem is and always has been the scaling on the cards with Energy. Everyone crying about interaction is just crying. Why aren't they crying that only Teferi interacted with Suspend? Or that Hellbent has no good answers? Why can't they interact with my Hexproof creatures? Why is the 3 card from the bottom of my library have no specific answers?
It's all a lot of bluster with no wind. It distracts from both actual discussion of the card spoiled, and the fact that these players have deep issues in their lives that are unresolved, and instead are being vented in the guise of complaints about a card game they don't fully understand. But really, is sacrificing half of my creatures that bad? It seems that for the same cost, I could just play Necropotence (cmc) and just win. Worst card ever.
Energy: readily available turn 1 and on, often for zero mana. Abusers come early and often to abuse it.
Delirium: readily available turn 2, often for one or two mana. Abusers come down early, and often.
Ascend: Not happening turn one or two in any normal magic game. Even turns 3-5 are a stretch. After that, anything should be game.
The comparison really isn't that close.
Turn 1: Forest, Burgeoning, play a forest during opponent's turn
Turn 2: Forest, Kodama's Reach, play forest during opponent's turn
Turn 3: Forest, Explosive Vegetation, play forest during opponent's turn.
Turn 4: Ascend
I'm not even doing a christmas land scenario. I can replace any of those cards, aside from the standard land for each turn, with others and still get it done within four turns of just mono green shenanigans. Pretty sure every color has a means to vomit permanents onto the battlefield.
I mean, you don't even need to go to the pre-modern well like you did here. It's quite doable in Standard.
That's already 8 permanents at the end of T2. Getting to 10 on T3 (when your land drop is #9) is near-trivial after that. Going pre-standard makes it even easier when other 1-mana-2-permanent cards can be considered (Thraben Inspector, Flayer Husk, Sarcomancy...)
Hey, another use for Mishra's Bauble and its older cousin... drop em early in your speedrush to ten permanents, then once you have the emblem, cash em in for card draw.
Maybe they should have printed some energy hate cards? Its like lands except ethereal/untouchable.
Like here is what I brewed in 2 mins:
Energy Hog1R Creature - Gremlin (R)
Haste T: Remove up to three from target player. Then put a +1/+1 counter on Energy Hog for each removed this way. 1/1
So you think a parsititc mechanic should have had parasitic answers?
The problem was never the inability to remove/ punish opponents for gaining energy.
Yes its a problem. All anyone did was race to the finish line to get enough energy to power up their Aetherworks Marvel.
The problem is and always has been the scaling on the cards with Energy.
So why not print answers to the questions that energy throws?
Everyone crying about interaction is just crying.
Said the boy who cried wolf.
Why aren't they crying that only Teferi interacted with Suspend?
Teferi didn't just interact with suspend.
Or that Hellbent has no good answers?
The easy way to counteract Hellbent is through allowing your opponent to draw a card. With a non-empty hand their spell gets weakened.
Why can't they interact with my Hexproof creatures?
Which is how some might be regarding you right now.
It distracts from both actual discussion of the card spoiled
Like the acrobatic leaps of logic you are going through?
and the fact that these players have deep issues in their lives that are unresolved
Now that is just petty from you.
and instead are being vented in the guise of complaints about a card game they don't fully understand.
Neither do you. As you apparently don't even have correct reading comprehension.
But really, is sacrificing half of my creatures that bad?
Depends on the board state. Tell you what kiddo, whip me up a magical christmas land scenario to prove your not just grasping at straws.
It seems that for the same cost, I could just play Necropotence (cmc) and just win. Worst card ever.
Not even the same category of card. Man you're bad at this game. Like you didn't even pick the easiest answer, Damnation. Necropotence doesn't win you the game, it digs for the win conditions you need.
Energy: readily available turn 1 and on, often for zero mana. Abusers come early and often to abuse it.
Delirium: readily available turn 2, often for one or two mana. Abusers come down early, and often.
Ascend: Not happening turn one or two in any normal magic game. Even turns 3-5 are a stretch. After that, anything should be game.
The comparison really isn't that close.
Turn 1: Forest, Burgeoning, play a forest during opponent's turn
Turn 2: Forest, Kodama's Reach, play forest during opponent's turn
Turn 3: Forest, Explosive Vegetation, play forest during opponent's turn.
Turn 4: Ascend
I'm not even doing a christmas land scenario. I can replace any of those cards, aside from the standard land for each turn, with others and still get it done within four turns of just mono green shenanigans. Pretty sure every color has a means to vomit permanents onto the battlefield.
I mean, you don't even need to go to the pre-modern well like you did here. It's quite doable in Standard.
That's already 8 permanents at the end of T2. Getting to 10 on T3 (when your land drop is #9) is near-trivial after that. Going pre-standard makes it even easier when other 1-mana-2-permanent cards can be considered (Thraben Inspector, Flayer Husk, Sarcomancy...)
Hey, another use for Mishra's Bauble and its older cousin... drop em early in your speedrush to ten permanents, then once you have the emblem, cash em in for card draw.
EXACTLY. Reaching ten permanents is honestly not a challenge.
Oh I got one: Spell Swindle a 5 mana spell. 5 lands + 5 treasures = Ascend Achieved.
There is also probably some other tricks that Kaladesh and/or Amonkhet block have to offer when it comes to reaching 10 permanents with the greatest of ease.
Why not just necro the Aetherworks Marvel thread if it has personally offended you so much?
Back to the card itself: Getting to ten permanents and having a tenable board state is a challenge worth an "emblem" Especially one that only works on some of the cards in a small set, and doesn't scale. If this is the kind of card we get, it seems like an okay mechanic.
Also note that having the city's blessing doesn't scale, and that this particular card would probably be fair if it just did it's ascend side for 1 more mana.
Lol I paraphrase all posts of yours and you call it petty and leaps of logic.
You mean them putting holes in you're defenses is leaps in logic? Pffft, I think a certain Bolas's buttons got pushed.
Sure pro. Cry on.
Is this your only retort? Pretty sure this is why you're a one-trick pony that keeps repeating it as if that is so supposed to make a dent. Man who would've thunk it, Nicol Bolas whose been corrupted by Phyrexians is this bad at mentally thinking up a comeback.
Tell me more about how much you hate sets from years ago.
I don't. There is flaws, but I don't hate it.
Why not just necro the Aetherworks Marvel thread if it has personally offended you so much?
Because that is a job for you and its something you would do.
Back to the card itself: Getting to ten permanents and having a tenable board state is a challenge worth an "emblem" Especially one that only works on some of the cards in a small set, and doesn't scale. If this is the kind of card we get, it seems like an okay mechanic.
I mentioned that countering was harder than keeping them off ten permanents, and you go off on a sarcastic tangent about... What exactly?
Less interactive than what? Energy isn't an issue because it isn't interactive. It just scales too well. And Ascend "not being interactive" makes no sense. By the same logic, Nimbus Wings isn't interactive, because without destroying permanent, it will work. The interaction is there. You can do any number of things to keep an opponents permanent count low without usually adding specific hate to your deck.
So far you've whined about Energy, from two blocks ago, Delirium, which isn't even in standard anymore, and Ascend, a mechanic you don't know anything about. All because you apparently seem to think they're the same. Or similar. They're not.
The fact that you can't think of ways to interact with the number of permanents your opponent controls, or think that a small upgrade to a few cards is going to continue a negative trend you seem to believe in doesn't really make me think that you are using the word "experienced" correctly.
Anyways, this, again, is not the thread for you to cry about every mechanic in the last 4 years that you dislike, nor is it the correct place for crying about standard. Tissue?
and you whine about whiners. Tragic/comedic irony.
So because its not in standard, its someone elses problem, right?
1) Ten permanents to reach condition
2) Multiple players can Ascend and don't need to fight over it based on wording.
3) The blessing is permanent like an emblem.
4) Cards get improved benefits if you have ascended.
The energy card itself does nothing just like the blessing card. However the owners cards can be affected by both.
Ah yes oh great sultan of wisdom, dispense onto us your vast knowledge for you obviously understand the mechanic perfectly and we do not.
And this is not the correct thread for you to be crying.
Funny, as this is rumor mill where people tend to share there thoughts about all formats and the given uses of a card. Like in standard. What a shock right?
Yeah I have a box of them for you as you're going to need them.
404: Quote not found.
Quote found instead:
"The problem" was twice space reasons as far as I can tell. Unless you use the phrase "the problem" differently than I do and/or use another source to support your statement about the mechanics history. In which case that would be good to know.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
Awww it's okay. You don't need to explain. Even if you could.
Source?
It definitely makes it feels much less relevant.
Energy can be used to amplify effects on a scale, always a dangerous mechanical execution (see: Storm, Affinity, Modular, etc.) This is obviously an on/ off switch. I thought you knew about this mechanic, pro.
Again, please stay on topic. Or keep looking stupid. Your call I guess.
As for the card itself, it's obviously not broken. My Toshiro Umezawa Commander will enjoy it, but outside of there, it doesn't seem very strong.
Ascend has the potential to be busted like many other mechanics IMO, so we'll just have to see where they take it. On the other hand, they could treat it like Improvise (which had even greater potential to be ridiculous) and never push it that far.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
Tokens pile cheap creatures on quickly
Artifact/treasure could pile creatures and treasure
Some people have shown ramp with Hour of Promise gets you there nicely.
Control with enchantments, cast out etc can get you there sooner than T9/10
We just have to see what else they created. Vona's itself seems to be a not good enough that could be annoying
The better comparison to Ascend is Delirium without GY hate. It becomes a game state that is irrevocable.
Delirium: readily available turn 2, often for one or two mana. Abusers come down early, and often.
Ascend: Not happening turn one or two in any normal magic game. Even turns 3-5 are a stretch. After that, anything should be game.
The comparison really isn't that close.
Turn 2: Forest, Kodama's Reach, play forest during opponent's turn
Turn 3: Forest, Explosive Vegetation, play forest during opponent's turn.
Turn 4: Ascend
I'm not even doing a christmas land scenario. I can replace any of those cards, aside from the standard land for each turn, with others and still get it done within four turns of just mono green shenanigans. Pretty sure every color has a means to vomit permanents onto the battlefield.
If this was just a card that read "Each opponent sacrifices half of all creatures they control rounded up." for the same cost would we be complaining in the same way or is it just worse for the health of the game since it does a worse version of that effect unless you have a special qualifier?
-Chandra Nalaar
Like here is what I brewed in 2 mins:
Creature - Gremlin (R)
Haste
T: Remove up to three from target player. Then put a +1/+1 counter on Energy Hog for each removed this way.
1/1
(note it says 'for the rest of the game')
If you can't, then it is not interactive.
It's like delirium with no GY hate. Once they have it, they get full benefit for the rest of the game and we know how that went.
"Not magical Xmas land"
Involves playing Burgeoning on turn 1, and playing both a land and a ramp spell 7 turns in a row.
You can interact with them getting the city's blessing in the first place. Not so much for energy or delirium.
Seriously, let it go bro.
So you think a parsititc mechanic should have had parasitic answers?
The problem was never the inability to remove/ punish opponents for gaining energy. The problem is and always has been the scaling on the cards with Energy. Everyone crying about interaction is just crying. Why aren't they crying that only Teferi interacted with Suspend? Or that Hellbent has no good answers? Why can't they interact with my Hexproof creatures? Why is the 3 card from the bottom of my library have no specific answers?
It's all a lot of bluster with no wind. It distracts from both actual discussion of the card spoiled, and the fact that these players have deep issues in their lives that are unresolved, and instead are being vented in the guise of complaints about a card game they don't fully understand. But really, is sacrificing half of my creatures that bad? It seems that for the same cost, I could just play Necropotence (cmc) and just win. Worst card ever.
I mean, you don't even need to go to the pre-modern well like you did here. It's quite doable in Standard.
1. Plains, Legion's Landing
2. Plains, Cartouche of Solidarity, Cartouche of Solidarity.
That's already 8 permanents at the end of T2. Getting to 10 on T3 (when your land drop is #9) is near-trivial after that. Going pre-standard makes it even easier when other 1-mana-2-permanent cards can be considered (Thraben Inspector, Flayer Husk, Sarcomancy...)
Hey, another use for Mishra's Bauble and its older cousin... drop em early in your speedrush to ten permanents, then once you have the emblem, cash em in for card draw.
So why not print answers to the questions that energy throws?
Said the boy who cried wolf.
Teferi didn't just interact with suspend.
The easy way to counteract Hellbent is through allowing your opponent to draw a card. With a non-empty hand their spell gets weakened.
Glaring Spotlight and Arcane Lighthouse. Sadistic Sacrament, Jester's Cap, etc.
Which is how some might be regarding you right now.
Like the acrobatic leaps of logic you are going through?
Now that is just petty from you.
Neither do you. As you apparently don't even have correct reading comprehension.
Depends on the board state. Tell you what kiddo, whip me up a magical christmas land scenario to prove your not just grasping at straws.
Not even the same category of card. Man you're bad at this game. Like you didn't even pick the easiest answer, Damnation. Necropotence doesn't win you the game, it digs for the win conditions you need.
Oh I got one: Spell Swindle a 5 mana spell. 5 lands + 5 treasures = Ascend Achieved.
There is also probably some other tricks that Kaladesh and/or Amonkhet block have to offer when it comes to reaching 10 permanents with the greatest of ease.
Back to the card itself: Getting to ten permanents and having a tenable board state is a challenge worth an "emblem" Especially one that only works on some of the cards in a small set, and doesn't scale. If this is the kind of card we get, it seems like an okay mechanic.
Also note that having the city's blessing doesn't scale, and that this particular card would probably be fair if it just did it's ascend side for 1 more mana.
Is this your only retort? Pretty sure this is why you're a one-trick pony that keeps repeating it as if that is so supposed to make a dent. Man who would've thunk it, Nicol Bolas whose been corrupted by Phyrexians is this bad at mentally thinking up a comeback.
I don't. There is flaws, but I don't hate it.
Because that is a job for you and its something you would do.
Not a challenge.