Super-Duper Death Ray 2R
Instant - U
Trample (This spell can deal excess damage to its target's controller.)
Super-Duper Death Ray deals 4 damage to target creature.
"Comin' through!"
Source: https://youtu.be/nRDXvAaYM7c (in Spanish).
See the image at 0:37
The guy in the video is a friend of mine in real life. Hi Oriol!
Trample is a static ability that modifies the rules for assigning an attacking creature's combat damage. The ability has no effect when a creature with trample is blocking or is dealing noncombat damage.
Excuse me, but this is definitely not how trample works.
Also,
This seems really nice.
Four damage for three mana at instant speed. And if you kill a small utility guy you get to deal the rest to your opponent. That just seems useful.
Love the name too. Just like, "Hey come over here and check out my Super-Duper Death Ray, it's a killer".
Since lifelink was given to spells before i imagine a couple of keywords would be given to them aswell like Trample. Deathtouch maybe but that could be abit too good, basically removal.
Since lifelink was given to spells before i imagine a couple of keywords would be given to them aswell like Trample. Deathtouch maybe but that could be abit too good, basically removal.
I wouldn't mind at all seeing deathtouch on some instants and sorceries.
Trample is a static ability that modifies the rules for assigning an attacking creature's combat damage. The ability has no effect when a creature with trample is blocking or is dealing noncombat damage.
Excuse me, but this is definitely not how trample works.
They have three options if they want to put this ability in black-border land:
a.) Give it a different keyword.
b.) Alter the rules regarding trample to account for spells that have it.
c.) Print out the entire effect that's in the reminder text.
Soulfire Grand Master (remember when people were freaking out about how awesome THAT was gonna be?) gave damage spells lifelink, this could be black border if they wanted to in the fiture, there is that precedent
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raptorchan: Well, that can only hit creatures. Something like Lightning Blast that can deal 4 damage directly to a player is, perhaps, 'better'. The Death Ray requires an opponent to have a creature to hit a player.
Also, if they wanted to blackborder this with a new keyword, I'm all in favor of 'pierce'. Make it a way to differentiate Lightning spells (that would get it) from Fire spells (that wouldn't).
What happens when you sacrifice the creature in response?
Does the spell fizzle because no legal targets or do all 4 damage "trample" over onto the controller of that creature?
The problem with defining this format by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
What happens when you sacrifice the creature in response?
Does the spell fizzle because no legal targets or do all 4 damage "trample" over onto the controller of that creature?
That's a good question, but I would assume that the spell would act in the same way a Trampling creature would: all damage goes to the player. Otherwise, why call it Trample?
Maro has said several times that he has tried to get a direct damage spell with trample, or a spell that is essentially that, into black border. Despite being intuitive in principle, attempts either end up being incredibly wordy, or they don't work within the rules at all.
Check the oracle-wording for Liquid Fire as an example in this space.
Maro has said several times that he has tried to get a direct damage spell with trample, or a spell that is essentially that, into black border. Despite being intuitive in principle, attempts either end up being incredibly wordy, or they don't work within the rules at all.
Check the oracle-wording for Liquid Fire as an example in this space.
What the point of such Oracle wording? It works perfect as printed, see Pyrotechnics.
Because damage to one target can be 0 and it was implied for Liquid Fire but not for Pyrotechnics?
What the point of such Oracle wording? It works perfect as printed, see Pyrotechnics.
Because damage to one target can be 0 and it was implied for Liquid Fire but not for Pyrotechnics?
Its all about the number of actual targets.
Pyrotechnics gives you 1 target for each point of damage you want to assign, so you have at least 1 target and 4 at the max.
Liquid Fire has only 1 target, the creature and you just choose how much damage that creature is dealt and how much that creatures controller.
----
It might feel similiar, but targets are important in magic, and a spell can only be played if you have targets it requires.
If a spell has no legal target anymore, it will "fizzle".
What happens when you sacrifice the creature in response?
Does the spell fizzle because no legal targets or do all 4 damage "trample" over onto the controller of that creature?
That's a good question, but I would assume that the spell would act in the same way a Trampling creature would: all damage goes to the player. Otherwise, why call it Trample?
Your assumption would be incorrect though.
This spell only has one target, the creature. So if that is gone by the time the spell goes to resolve, then the spell will fizzle for lack of legal targets. And do nothing.
What happens when you sacrifice the creature in response?
Does the spell fizzle because no legal targets or do all 4 damage "trample" over onto the controller of that creature?
That's a good question, but I would assume that the spell would act in the same way a Trampling creature would: all damage goes to the player. Otherwise, why call it Trample?
Your assumption would be incorrect though.
This spell only has one target, the creature. So if that is gone by the time the spell goes to resolve, then the spell will fizzle for lack of legal targets. And do nothing.
Assuming that the normal rules aren't subverted in this case, sure. My argument is that the normal rules are subverted, for the following reasons.
1) MaRo is insistent that same-name mechanics should work as consistently as possible.
2) This card was chosen to have the keyword Trample, and not a similar keyword or rules text.
3) We should therefore expect that this works in as close a manner to Trample (on a creature) as possible.
4) Whether you believe that this will work as I expect really hinges on what you think qualifies as 'as close a manner as possible' in 3) above.
5) The specific argument that 'this doesn't work under the rules of Magic' doesn't really hold in an Un-set. If you're going to cite that, you should also cite it for about half of the cards revealed so far in the set.
As a counterexample, by strict Magic rules (and not looking at the keyword itself), a Bestowed creature whose target is removed should die. However, the Bestow mechanic's text specifically says something different happens. We only have the reminder text of spell Trample, so we don't really know what precedent holds.
I've sent MaRo an Ask on blogatog about this. If he responds, I (or someone else) will let people know.
Creature
Trample
T: CARDNAME deals 3 damage to target creature.
Does this creature's ability now also trample?
That's the problem with overloading the trample keyword onto spells. In fact, instead of individual ability, a new keyword should modify the class of damage. like "Deal 3 overflow damage to target creature (damage over lethal damage to the creature is dealt to its controller.)" Now it works as expected for abilities, spells, and any other effect.
They have stuff like this in Elder Scrolls Legends, no problem. Magic is way too slow to adapt with their rules. "It doesn't work within the rules" - well then MAKE it work. Change the rules.
This spell is actually better than any comparable 4 damage red instant spell.
I love this card. It's a fantastic design I would love to see be given a black border. That said, I'd still take Char over it if we're debating "best ever". There's actually a lot of great options available if your're in the market for a 3 mana burn spell. Options include:
They have stuff like this in Elder Scrolls Legends, no problem. Magic is way too slow to adapt with their rules. "It doesn't work within the rules" - well then MAKE it work. Change the rules.
They have stuff like this in Elder Scrolls Legends, no problem. Magic is way too slow to adapt with their rules. "It doesn't work within the rules" - well then MAKE it work. Change the rules.
Silver border land already operates under its own rules, so the only real rules question is whether the spell fizzles or not.
For a black border version of this mechanic, it would have to receive a different name and its own rules. That's the easiest way to do it, and it certainly doesn't require the untangling of MTG's most outwardly simple and inwardly complex mechanic.
Also, Breakthrough and Trample are two totally different abilities that produce similar results. The entire point of trample's rules text is defining what "excess damage" is in this game.
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Instant - U
Trample (This spell can deal excess damage to its target's controller.)
Super-Duper Death Ray deals 4 damage to target creature.
"Comin' through!"
Source: https://youtu.be/nRDXvAaYM7c (in Spanish).
See the image at 0:37
The guy in the video is a friend of mine in real life. Hi Oriol!
Excuse me, but this is definitely not how trample works.
Also,
That goblin waiter brought Hot Soup, isn't he?
Four damage for three mana at instant speed. And if you kill a small utility guy you get to deal the rest to your opponent. That just seems useful.
Love the name too. Just like, "Hey come over here and check out my Super-Duper Death Ray, it's a killer".
I wouldn't mind at all seeing deathtouch on some instants and sorceries.
They have three options if they want to put this ability in black-border land:
a.) Give it a different keyword.
b.) Alter the rules regarding trample to account for spells that have it.
c.) Print out the entire effect that's in the reminder text.
probably with a new keyword or with the effect simply spelled out, though.
Also, if they wanted to blackborder this with a new keyword, I'm all in favor of 'pierce'. Make it a way to differentiate Lightning spells (that would get it) from Fire spells (that wouldn't).
Does the spell fizzle because no legal targets or do all 4 damage "trample" over onto the controller of that creature?
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That's a good question, but I would assume that the spell would act in the same way a Trampling creature would: all damage goes to the player. Otherwise, why call it Trample?
Check the oracle-wording for Liquid Fire as an example in this space.
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Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
What the point of such Oracle wording? It works perfect as printed, see Pyrotechnics.
Because damage to one target can be 0 and it was implied for Liquid Fire but not for Pyrotechnics?
Its all about the number of actual targets.
Pyrotechnics gives you 1 target for each point of damage you want to assign, so you have at least 1 target and 4 at the max.
Liquid Fire has only 1 target, the creature and you just choose how much damage that creature is dealt and how much that creatures controller.
----
It might feel similiar, but targets are important in magic, and a spell can only be played if you have targets it requires.
If a spell has no legal target anymore, it will "fizzle".
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Your assumption would be incorrect though.
This spell only has one target, the creature. So if that is gone by the time the spell goes to resolve, then the spell will fizzle for lack of legal targets. And do nothing.
Assuming that the normal rules aren't subverted in this case, sure. My argument is that the normal rules are subverted, for the following reasons.
1) MaRo is insistent that same-name mechanics should work as consistently as possible.
2) This card was chosen to have the keyword Trample, and not a similar keyword or rules text.
3) We should therefore expect that this works in as close a manner to Trample (on a creature) as possible.
4) Whether you believe that this will work as I expect really hinges on what you think qualifies as 'as close a manner as possible' in 3) above.
5) The specific argument that 'this doesn't work under the rules of Magic' doesn't really hold in an Un-set. If you're going to cite that, you should also cite it for about half of the cards revealed so far in the set.
As a counterexample, by strict Magic rules (and not looking at the keyword itself), a Bestowed creature whose target is removed should die. However, the Bestow mechanic's text specifically says something different happens. We only have the reminder text of spell Trample, so we don't really know what precedent holds.
I've sent MaRo an Ask on blogatog about this. If he responds, I (or someone else) will let people know.
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Commander: Allies & Adversaries
Creature
Trample
T: CARDNAME deals 3 damage to target creature.
Does this creature's ability now also trample?
That's the problem with overloading the trample keyword onto spells. In fact, instead of individual ability, a new keyword should modify the class of damage. like "Deal 3 overflow damage to target creature (damage over lethal damage to the creature is dealt to its controller.)" Now it works as expected for abilities, spells, and any other effect.
........................
Silver border land already operates under its own rules, so the only real rules question is whether the spell fizzles or not.
For a black border version of this mechanic, it would have to receive a different name and its own rules. That's the easiest way to do it, and it certainly doesn't require the untangling of MTG's most outwardly simple and inwardly complex mechanic.
Also, Breakthrough and Trample are two totally different abilities that produce similar results. The entire point of trample's rules text is defining what "excess damage" is in this game.