EDIT - I may have to revise that last statement. I could be wrong and technically ANY counter placed down is defined by the effect, but "put a +X/+X counter" could just be shorthand for "Put a counter on blah that increases its power and toughness both by X as long as it's there".
Not really -- if +1/+1 counters worked like you say, it would be an effect that hinges on a specific counter, and they don't do that. Counters are fungible. Even Obsidian Fireheart only cares about a presence of "a" blaze counter, not the specific one it creates.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
EDIT - I may have to revise that last statement. I could be wrong and technically ANY counter placed down is defined by the effect, but "put a +X/+X counter" could just be shorthand for "Put a counter on blah that increases its power and toughness both by X as long as it's there".
Not really -- if +1/+1 counters worked like you say, it would be an effect that hinges on a specific counter, and they don't do that. Counters are fungible. Even Obsidian Fireheart only cares about a presence of "a" blaze counter, not the specific one it creates.
I think it depends on the specific wording of the card. Obsidian Fireheart specifically says "as long as *that* land has a Blaze counter". So it doesn't care whether the blaze counter currently on that land came from Obsidian Fireheart, but it has to be the land that Obsidian Fireheart's ability originally targeted. That wording exists so that the land continues to hurt its controller even after Obsidian Fireheart dies. That Which Was Taken, by contrast, says "Each permanent with a divinity counter on it has indestructible". It doesn't care whether the divinity counter in question came from That Which Was Taken, or whether the permanent with a counter on it was targeted by That Which Was Taken - it's a static ability. But if you remove That Which Was Taken, the static ability goes away, and all those divinity counters no longer do anything. (This is fun with By Gnome Means, because now you can actually put a divinity counter That Which Was taken itself, and it will be much harder to remove)
I'm not a judge though, so if someone who is would like to confirm or deny with rules citations, I'll bow to that. I'm just going by the language as written on the cards.
My understanding is that any printed Magic card counter may be placed, it does not need to be referenced on cards on any player's side of the battlefield to be used. You can put ice counters on permanents before playing Rimefeather Owl so that the Owl is huge on arrival. Plus you can use +2/+2 counters on all your creatures, allowing you to slowly double all your creatures with +1/+1 counters (or make something like Exemplar of Strength really big!).
I really hope you don't have to "see" the counter to make it, since that's more restrictive and contrary to what the wording sounds like with "a printed card." If it was, it should have been "a card on the battlefield."
I think the only reason why this doesn't just end at "any kind of counter" is because they didn't want us inventing counters, even if they wouldn't have gameplay relevance. Because I, and those of my ilk, would be giving all my permanents the counters named after stuff from Urban Dictionary.
My understanding is that any printed Magic card counter may be placed, it does not need to be referenced on cards on any player's side of the battlefield to be used. You can put ice counters on permanents before playing Rimefeather Owl so that the Owl is huge on arrival. Plus you can use +2/+2 counters on all your creatures, allowing you to slowly double all your creatures with +1/+1 counters (or make something like Exemplar of Strength really big!).
I really hope you don't have to "see" the counter to make it, since that's more restrictive and contrary to what the wording sounds like with "a printed card." If it was, it should have been "a card on the battlefield."
I think the only reason why this doesn't just end at "any kind of counter" is because they didn't want us inventing counters, even if they wouldn't have gameplay relevance. Because I, and those of my ilk, would be giving all my permanents the counters named after stuff from Urban Dictionary.
After re-reading the card, that does make sense.
That would make this great for any Superfriends deck where silver border is okay
(and I have a feeling this set is going to expand that circle significantly).
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
The black-border version of Giant Fan, of course, being Power Conduit.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
The black-border version of Giant Fan, of course, being Power Conduit.
I was just about to say that this was "another version" of Giant Fan. But this one is more broken since it can make tokens. If By Gnome Means works how I think it works, it'll be broken with any deck that has unique counters on it or planeswalkers.
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I love how they future-proofed this in a way I assume is problematic for black-border, though I'm not sure why exactly... Maybe it's because they're worried that a future type of counter might cause a rules paradox? If you know the answer, send it to my web-zone and I'll email you a pizza roll.
The future-proofing has already yielded fruit: Tetzimoc, Primal Death (its name is only in Portuguese right now so sorry if the name ends up being wrong). Since normally the card needs to be in your hand to put prey counters on other creatures, there might be times where you'll wish you could put those prey counters on other creatures in case you draw or tutor for it later but can't (no cards in the game currently make prey counters). So By Gnome Means allows you to put a prey counter on each creature you want to in the early turns before you draw that Demonic Tutor with just 8 mana available, so Tetzimoc can do its Reiver Demon impresssion sooner rather than later.
I bet Dominaria gives us at least 1 new counter that By Gnome Means can interact with meaningfully.
Gnomes: The gifts that keep on giving. Also, can't gnomes make toys? If so, then The Grand Calcutron must have heard about how you like toys so they made toymakers that can make toymakers so you can build toys while you build toys.
If I put a fade counter or an age counter in a permanent without fading or cumulative upkeep, I imagine it doesn't do anything, right?
Can I put a CRANK! counter in a contraption or CRANK!counter are put only in sprockets (those aren't permanent, right)?
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Not really -- if +1/+1 counters worked like you say, it would be an effect that hinges on a specific counter, and they don't do that. Counters are fungible. Even Obsidian Fireheart only cares about a presence of "a" blaze counter, not the specific one it creates.
The enchantment doesn't specify where you put the counter, so you can put it where you want, so I'd place it on the 1.
Give Little Girl a Growth Counter and now you have a Big Girl.
Give Blind Seer an Eyeball Counter and now you have Urza.
Give Crumbling Colossus a Brick Counter so he won't crumble anymore.
Give any Druid a Blaze Counter and... well, y'know.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
I think it depends on the specific wording of the card. Obsidian Fireheart specifically says "as long as *that* land has a Blaze counter". So it doesn't care whether the blaze counter currently on that land came from Obsidian Fireheart, but it has to be the land that Obsidian Fireheart's ability originally targeted. That wording exists so that the land continues to hurt its controller even after Obsidian Fireheart dies. That Which Was Taken, by contrast, says "Each permanent with a divinity counter on it has indestructible". It doesn't care whether the divinity counter in question came from That Which Was Taken, or whether the permanent with a counter on it was targeted by That Which Was Taken - it's a static ability. But if you remove That Which Was Taken, the static ability goes away, and all those divinity counters no longer do anything. (This is fun with By Gnome Means, because now you can actually put a divinity counter That Which Was taken itself, and it will be much harder to remove)
I'm not a judge though, so if someone who is would like to confirm or deny with rules citations, I'll bow to that. I'm just going by the language as written on the cards.
I really hope you don't have to "see" the counter to make it, since that's more restrictive and contrary to what the wording sounds like with "a printed card." If it was, it should have been "a card on the battlefield."
I think the only reason why this doesn't just end at "any kind of counter" is because they didn't want us inventing counters, even if they wouldn't have gameplay relevance. Because I, and those of my ilk, would be giving all my permanents the counters named after stuff from Urban Dictionary.
After re-reading the card, that does make sense.
That would make this great for any Superfriends deck where silver border is okay
(and I have a feeling this set is going to expand that circle significantly).
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
C12, actually. This is like Ghave, Guru of Spores done Giant Fan-style.
The black-border version of Giant Fan, of course, being Power Conduit.
On phasing:
I was just about to say that this was "another version" of Giant Fan. But this one is more broken since it can make tokens. If By Gnome Means works how I think it works, it'll be broken with any deck that has unique counters on it or planeswalkers.
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
The future-proofing has already yielded fruit: Tetzimoc, Primal Death (its name is only in Portuguese right now so sorry if the name ends up being wrong). Since normally the card needs to be in your hand to put prey counters on other creatures, there might be times where you'll wish you could put those prey counters on other creatures in case you draw or tutor for it later but can't (no cards in the game currently make prey counters). So By Gnome Means allows you to put a prey counter on each creature you want to in the early turns before you draw that Demonic Tutor with just 8 mana available, so Tetzimoc can do its Reiver Demon impresssion sooner rather than later.
I bet Dominaria gives us at least 1 new counter that By Gnome Means can interact with meaningfully.
Gnomes: The gifts that keep on giving. Also, can't gnomes make toys? If so, then The Grand Calcutron must have heard about how you like toys so they made toymakers that can make toymakers so you can build toys while you build toys.
If I put a fade counter or an age counter in a permanent without fading or cumulative upkeep, I imagine it doesn't do anything, right?
Can I put a CRANK! counter in a contraption or CRANK!counter are put only in sprockets (those aren't permanent, right)?