Turn 1 : Ornithopter, land , drums, this
Turn 2 : land, equip to thopter, swing in for the flip.
requires a nut draw of Thoper, two lands, this and drums. But hardly not achievable.
I think you're still an Opal or a SSG short. This costs 2. Drum costs 1. After you tap your land to drop Drums, you can tap the thopter and the drum for one mana... but you still need another one.
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
The comments of how the recent sets are dedicating more and more slots to commander decks start to have basis in reality. This card is completely tailored for multiplayer commander. Sure, maybe someone can find a way to make this work in 1v1 constructed, but doesn't seem great giving your opponent two free blockers. And you would need the land for a ramp deck, but then you need a creature to attack with it, etc. In short, card is all over the place, but will be funny in commander.
As a sidenote, first wizards let pterodactyls slide as dinosaurs, now they're giving support to the pseudoscience of dowsing? tsk, tsk. Is WoTC trolling scientists? heh (though to be fair some people that 'defend' dowsing claim that it works with leylines, which is pure nonsense in the real world, but they do exist in Magic and... oh, leyline reprints incoming?)
This card will see play, in both standard and non-rotating formats. For a guy who complains as much as you do, I'd think you would be a bit more creative instead of writing off cards during spoiler season. 0/2 ground bodies mean absolutely nothing when they're staring down Tron-esque mana generation on turn 3.
There is absolutely no reason for this to not be flipped turn-2 with proper support. This isn't Sin Prodder level of support needed, and the payoff is quite powerful. It allows you to Cancel the next spell, I picture this slotting into UW control shell but with a higher creature count. Sticking this on Spiketail Hatchling for instance. It has serious potential.
Hah! Please tell me what deck from a non-rotating format wants this card? I see you mention an affinity-esque Shell. If you put this card in such shell, what is the extra mana for? And a control deck will play this? Lol. Nope. No way. A dead card on most situations. This card has a decent flavor and fun concept, but it is not competitive material.
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Ahahah, these flip cards are so absurd, I love them. Like even if they turn out to not live up to the hype, every time a new one is spoiled and I read it for the first time, my mind just goes "WHAT? No they didn't....".
Who cares for this Dagger if now I can play real Lotus Vale with moon without the drawback
Without the benefits either.
Plus lotus value errata was years ago and is not a enters the Battlefield effect anyway
Dammit, I missed that errata
The discussion is still relevant. In fact, it's only relevant for special discussion today because of that errata.
Before today's new-rule reveal, Blood Moon and Magus of the Moon prevented "When ~ enters the battlefield" triggers from occurring, but the Moon duo didn't affect "As ~ enters the battlefield", "~ enters the battlefield (with condition)", and "If ~ would enter the battlefield, do (something) instead (or something else happens)". As I covered earlier, before today, when a Khalni Garden was played while one of the Moonies was on the battlefield, it would still enter the battlefield tapped, but it would enter the battlefield as a tapped mountain and no Plant token would be created.
After today's rule reversal, if a Khalni Garden enters a Mooned battlefield , it enters as an untapped Mountain. It still doesn't make a Plant token, but it's not subject to its own "Enters the battlefield tapped" clause anymore. Basically, the game is making the Moon override even before it does replacement effects that would occur as a land enters or would enter the battlefield.
This is why Lotus Vale's behaviour changed today. If Lotus Vale was still a trigger (if it was played as-printed), today wouldn't have changed anything - the Moon effect was squishing all nonbasic lands' enters-the-battlefield triggers before, and it still is. But as the Lotus Vale *isn't* an ETB trigger anymore - it's a replacement effect that happens as LV would enter the battlefield - its behaviour was changed by today's rulechange.
Before today, if you played Lotus Vale with a Moon out, you still had to sacrifice two untapped lands or else replace putting it on the battlefield with putting it in the graveyard instead. All to get a land on the battlefield that would only be a mountain anyway. As of today (or whenever this ruling becomes official, unsure if there's a formal date for that), if you play a Lotus Vale with a Moon out, it becomes a Mountain before the game would try to handle its sacrifice clause, and so it would enter the battlefield without any sacrifice. It would still be a Mountain, of course, but if at some later time that Moon were to go away, you'd be left with a functioning Lotus Vale that you got into play without having to pay lands for.
And I'm guessing if Dark Depths came out with a Magus Of The Moon on the battlefield, than it would enter the battlefield as a mountain with no counters, and once the Moon leaves play you'd get Marit Lange for nothing, correct?
And I'm guessing if Dark Depths came out with a Magus Of The Moon on the battlefield, than it would enter the battlefield as a mountain with no counters, and once the Moon leaves play you'd get Marit Lange for nothing, correct?
Turn 1 : Ornithopter, land , drums, this
Turn 2 : land, equip to thopter, swing in for the flip.
requires a nut draw of Thoper, two lands, this and drums. But hardly not achievable.
I think you're still an Opal or a SSG short. This costs 2. Drum costs 1. After you tap your land to drop Drums, you can tap the thopter and the drum for one mana... but you still need another one.
The EtB trigger of giving an opponent tokens is cool and all for multiplayer politics and strategys, but isn't it already hard and expensive enough to get this to flip with the 2 mana cost and 2 mana equip cost?
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Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
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The comments of how the recent sets are dedicating more and more slots to commander decks start to have basis in reality. This card is completely tailored for multiplayer commander. Sure, maybe someone can find a way to make this work in 1v1 constructed, but doesn't seem great giving your opponent two free blockers. And you would need the land for a ramp deck, but then you need a creature to attack with it, etc. In short, card is all over the place, but will be funny in commander.
As a sidenote, first wizards let pterodactyls slide as dinosaurs, now they're giving support to the pseudoscience of dowsing? tsk, tsk. Is WoTC trolling scientists? heh (though to be fair some people that 'defend' dowsing claim that it works with leylines, which is pure nonsense in the real world, but they do exist in Magic and... oh, leyline reprints incoming?)
This card will see play, in both standard and non-rotating formats. For a guy who complains as much as you do, I'd think you would be a bit more creative instead of writing off cards during spoiler season. 0/2 ground bodies mean absolutely nothing when they're staring down Tron-esque mana generation on turn 3.
There is absolutely no reason for this to not be flipped turn-2 with proper support. This isn't Sin Prodder level of support needed, and the payoff is quite powerful. It allows you to Cancel the next spell, I picture this slotting into UW control shell but with a higher creature count. Sticking this on Spiketail Hatchling for instance. It has serious potential.
Hah! Please tell me what deck from a non-rotating format wants this card? I see you mention an affinity-esque Shell. If you put this card in such shell, what is the extra mana for? And a control deck will play this? Lol. Nope. No way. A dead card on most situations. This card has a decent flavor and fun concept, but it is not competitive material.
This is why folks here paint you as a "complainer", or more aptly, a negative Nancy. You don't know that anything you just said is certain, yet you parade your words and insight around as though it's fact. It's speculation, on both sides. However, those praising its capabilities rarely do so with your type of "bravado". "Card looks good, can't wait to try it out" "This could really work, can't wait to see" "I'll be trying this in X, Y, Z". Not "wow, you guys have no idea what your talking about, this card is going to set Vintage on fire! Breaks out dah ban hammah".
Like, I get it. It's easy to complain and be negative, it requires no work. We all know you won't be here to "eat crow" if this happens to star, so regardless of how intelligent you make yourself sound, your nothing more than a troll.
Also, if you'd like to be taken more seriously, or to not be constantly hated on, don't start your responses with "Ha!".
Cards like these can be backbones of soon-to-be tier 1 decks. Summer Bloom comes to mind, bet when that was applied you didn't say "This card will get banned".
Nice. As a similar and parallel exercise, I decided to take a peek into Ashiok's post history and see if he's always been like this. Didn't take me long to find the segment of his posting history when Magic Origins flip-walkers were just spoiled, and he was rather voraciously tearing down any other poster who dared suggest Jace, Vryn's Prodigy was a playable card, rather than his assertion that it was the garbagiest garbage to ever garbage. So, uh, take his vehement and aggressive criticism with that enormous grain of salt. (JVP dominated its standard, and still holds a $25 value even long after its rotation from Standard).
This is why folks here paint you as a "complainer", or more aptly, a negative Nancy. You don't know that anything you just said is certain, yet you parade your words and insight around as though it's fact. It's speculation, on both sides. However, those praising its capabilities rarely do so with your type of "bravado". "Card looks good, can't wait to try it out" "This could really work, can't wait to see" "I'll be trying this in X, Y, Z". Not "wow, you guys have no idea what your talking about, this card is going to set Vintage on fire! Breaks out dah ban hammah".
Like, I get it. It's easy to complain and be negative, it requires no work. We all know you won't be here to "eat crow" if this happens to star, so regardless of how intelligent you make yourself sound, your nothing more than a troll.
Also, if you'd like to be taken more seriously, or to not be constantly hated on, don't start your responses with "Ha!".
Cards like these can be backbones of soon-to-be tier 1 decks. Summer Bloom comes to mind, bet when that was applied you didn't say "This card will get banned".
So, in short, slow your roll there pal.
1)You know nothing about me, and the little you think you know is clearly wrong. I comment on many cards, some are obvious competitive material, some are in a grey area, some are clearly bad. Regardless, I also speak positive of many cards, including some that I don't think will be the most playable ones, just go to my post history and check if you want to actually have a baggage to talk about me.
2)I said this particular card is tailored for commander. How the heck is that complaining? I didn't say it was bad ot that it shouldn't be printed, I even said it might see play in standard! However, you, all high and mighty, thinks that is not good enough, and that THIS CARD will be playable in eternal formats. No, it won't. It has a clear design issue - its payoff (the land side) is for big mana decks, but to get such payoff you need to be playing cheap AND evasive creatures. What deck meets such requirements in eternal formats? None that I know of. I asked you if you knew of some, and you diverged to personal attacks, meaning you got nothing.
3) The problem with people like you is that if someone like me doesn't immediately jump on the hype train, or immediately tries to scramble for shells to play a new card, we are negative. Here is the cold harsh truth bud: MOST CARDS don't see constructive play. Including MANY RARE and INTERESTING cards. I'm sorry, that's just how it is. If someone can make a completely new eternal deck that will somehow break this card, then congratulations. If someone asked me before the printing of Nourishing Shoal if such a card would be playable I would say 'hell no', but the card found its shell in a bizarre griselbrand combo deck. So yeah, of course I might be wrong, but I'm giving you clear reasons as to why this card is not gonna see play and you answer me with 'all you can do is complain, bu-huh'. Pleas tell me, which one of us do you think sounds more reasonable?
EDIT: it is funny because I spent the last few days on the Modern Mefolk thread defending my position of how kumena speaker and merfolk branchwalker, new cards from Ixalan, might be a good addition for the deck. I was defending cards that are almost a natural fit to an alrady existing strategy and I was met with much more skepticism than you could possibly imagine. I wonder what it would happen if you showed up in some of the tier deck threads suggesting that they play dowsing dagger...
Would you like to read Commander stories? Check my latest stories, coming from Lorwyn and Innistrad: Ghoulcaller Gisa and Doran, The Siege Tower! If you like my writing, ask me to write something for your commander as well!
Nice. As a similar and parallel exercise, I decided to take a peek into Ashiok's post history and see if he's always been like this. Didn't take me long to find the segment of his posting history when Magic Origins flip-walkers were just spoiled, and he was rather voraciously tearing down any other poster who dared suggest Jace, Vryn's Prodigy was a playable card, rather than his assertion that it was the garbagiest garbage to ever garbage. So, uh, take his vehement and aggressive criticism with that enormous grain of salt. (JVP dominated its standard, and still holds a $25 value even long after its rotation from Standard).
Woww, you found a card where I was wrong about. Good job buddy. You wanna know another one? I tell you for free: Liliana, the Last Hope. I thought it was a terrible walker, and now it sees play in eternal formats. I will give you another one! I thought that the Dragon from Origins that makes you discard your hand would actually be a good curve-topper in an aggressive aggro deck. Nope, never happened.
However, no mention of the cards where I was right about huh? Of course not, why bother? Let's just cherrypick. Here, do the following: if you think Dowsing Dagger is gonna be such a roleplayer, and you know so much better than I do, buy some playsets. I mean, it is just free money right? You buy playsets of this obvious powerhouse then proceed to profit later. Excellent deal.
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Everyone's occasionally wrong. But as Buff above said, not everyone is so aggressive and confrontational about their own opinions. When you go as balls to the wall overboard piling on everyone who disagrees with you, it makes you look all the more the fool for having been so aggressive and confrontational in the first place. Most people would not care that much about their idle predictions being occasionally awry. The difference is, none of your predictions are idle. They're all loud and in your face and amped up. You convey that you can't be wrong and anyone whose opinion differs is an idiot. Most people don't do that.
I'm not certain this card will be good. You're not actually arguing against someone who has a strong stake in this card. You're arguing against people who think having a stance so strong and infallible to get as aggressive as you have been is ridiculous.
Everyone's occasionally wrong. But as Buff above said, not everyone is so aggressive and confrontational about their own opinions. When you go as balls to the wall overboard piling on everyone who disagrees with you, it makes you look all the more the fool for having been so aggressive and confrontational in the first place. Most people would not care that much about their idle predictions being occasionally awry. The difference is, none of your predictions are idle. They're all loud and in your face and amped up. You convey that you can't be wrong and anyone whose opinion differs is an idiot. Most people don't do that.
I'm not certain this card will be good. You're not actually arguing against someone who has a strong stake in this card. You're arguing against people who think having a stance so strong and infallible to get as aggressive as you have been is ridiculous.
Man, you are so wrong in so many levels regarding what happened here that I think you didn't even read the thread.
First, it was me who first said something about this card in the lines of 'funny in commander, maybe playable in standard, not good anywhere else because of design constrains'. That was all. Am I being unreasonable? Did I piled on someone? Did I go balls to the wall? I don't think so. Then along comes user Buffsam89 that answers me with:
1) I complain too much, despite my reasonable commentary on the card.
2) I'm not creative, because I'm saying a card with design constrains will not see play in highly selective competitive formats.
3) Says there is no reason for this card NOT TO BE FLIPPING ON TURN 2. Then says that he pictures this card in a u/w control shell with spiketail hatchling. WHAT? I mean... what? Am I suppose to take this seriously? This is kitchen-table level brewing right here.
So yeah, my second response was in sheer disbelief of the U/W control deck with cancel, spiketail hatchling and dowsing dagger that is gonna make waves in modern. I still think I was very measured in that response. I'm making an effort here to point out why the card is not playable. If anything, the only reason I can see people playing this card in a truly competitive shell is to take advantage of the fact that it puts creatures on your opponent's board for a cheap cost, and then you combo that with a defense of the heart or oath of druids type of card, and that is it. However, there is a better and cheaper way to do that in forbidden orchard, so yeah, rough times for the dagger. Maybe in nic fit planeswalkers? No clue, go ahead, test it, tell me how it goes, I'm pretty sure it is not gonna go well.
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Before today's new-rule reveal, Blood Moon and Magus of the Moon prevented "When ~ enters the battlefield" triggers from occurring, but the Moon duo didn't affect "As ~ enters the battlefield", "~ enters the battlefield (with condition)", and "If ~ would enter the battlefield, do (something) instead (or something else happens)". As I covered earlier, before today, when a Khalni Garden was played while one of the Moonies was on the battlefield, it would still enter the battlefield tapped, but it would enter the battlefield as a tapped mountain and no Plant token would be created.
I thought it was different because the other cards do say As it enters but Lotus Vale says If it would enter and I assumed it worked differently. Thanks for the detailed clarification.
This is why folks here paint you as a "complainer", or more aptly, a negative Nancy. You don't know that anything you just said is certain, yet you parade your words and insight around as though it's fact. It's speculation, on both sides. However, those praising its capabilities rarely do so with your type of "bravado". "Card looks good, can't wait to try it out" "This could really work, can't wait to see" "I'll be trying this in X, Y, Z". Not "wow, you guys have no idea what your talking about, this card is going to set Vintage on fire! Breaks out dah ban hammah".
Like, I get it. It's easy to complain and be negative, it requires no work. We all know you won't be here to "eat crow" if this happens to star, so regardless of how intelligent you make yourself sound, your nothing more than a troll.
Also, if you'd like to be taken more seriously, or to not be constantly hated on, don't start your responses with "Ha!".
Cards like these can be backbones of soon-to-be tier 1 decks. Summer Bloom comes to mind, bet when that was applied you didn't say "This card will get banned".
So, in short, slow your roll there pal.
1)You know nothing about me, and the little you think you know is clearly wrong. I comment on many cards, some are obvious competitive material, some are in a grey area, some are clearly bad. Regardless, I also speak positive of many cards, including some that I don't think will be the most playable ones, just go to my post history and check if you want to actually have a baggage to talk about me.
2)I said this particular card is tailored for commander. How the heck is that complaining? I didn't say it was bad ot that it shouldn't be printed, I even said it might see play in standard! However, you, all high and mighty, thinks that is not good enough, and that THIS CARD will be playable in eternal formats. No, it won't. It has a clear design issue - its payoff (the land side) is for big mana decks, but to get such payoff you need to be playing cheap AND evasive creatures. What deck meets such requirements in eternal formats? None that I know of. I asked you if you knew of some, and you diverged to personal attacks, meaning you got nothing.
3) The problem with people like you is that if someone like me doesn't immediately jump on the hype train, or immediately tries to scramble for shells to play a new card, we are negative. Here is the cold harsh truth bud: MOST CARDS don't see constructive play. Including MANY RARE and INTERESTING cards. I'm sorry, that's just how it is. If someone can make a completely new eternal deck that will somehow break this card, then congratulations. If someone asked me before the printing of Nourishing Shoal if such a card would be playable I would say 'hell no', but the card found its shell in a bizarre griselbrand combo deck. So yeah, of course I might be wrong, but I'm giving you clear reasons as to why this card is not gonna see play and you answer me with 'all you can do is complain, bu-huh'. Pleas tell me, which one of us do you think sounds more reasonable?
EDIT: it is funny because I spent the last few days on the Modern Mefolk thread defending my position of how kumena speaker and merfolk branchwalker, new cards from Ixalan, might be a good addition for the deck. I was defending cards that are almost a natural fit to an alrady existing strategy and I was met with much more skepticism than you could possibly imagine. I wonder what it would happen if you showed up in some of the tier deck threads suggesting that they play dowsing dagger...
This, right here. Exactly, you were in a forum dedicated to discussing the competetive nature of certain cards to build a competetive deck. That is not this place. Nobody, NOBODY, even you, can determine the playability of a card without playtesting. You are lying to yourself if you don't believe that statement. Furthermore, the whole damn set hasn't even been spoiled yet. How the hell do you know that more cards wouldn't be printed to create a deck where this will find a home and be a cog. You don't, and that's the most factual point in this whole entire thread, and it applies to every single one of us. We can speculate, and analyze. This thread has EDH folks, it has Modern Folks, Standard, Casual, Variant, etc. This card will find a home in a few of those formats, and in an even larger amount of decks. I mean, me, right here, I'll play this card. I have a modern burn deck, I don't play often but I can sweep some FNM's and my local shops league pretty easily, so, competetive. I've jund in some Jund, Birthing Pod decks, Amulet Bloom. That has never deterred me from being objective with my observations. Lots of cards are bad, true, but like I said, negativity is easy, complaining is easy. What's hard is seeing the good, because sometimes, you've got to dig really deep.
This, right here. Exactly, you were in a forum dedicated to discussing the competetive nature of certain cards to build a competetive deck. That is not this place. Nobody, NOBODY, even you, can determine the playability of a card without playtesting. You are lying to yourself if you don't believe that statement. Furthermore, the whole damn set hasn't even been spoiled yet. How the hell do you know that more cards wouldn't be printed to create a deck where this will find a home and be a cog. You don't, and that's the most factual point in this whole entire thread, and it applies to every single one of us. We can speculate, and analyze. This thread has EDH folks, it has Modern Folks, Standard, Casual, Variant, etc. This card will find a home in a few of those formats, and in an even larger amount of decks. I mean, me, right here, I'll play this card. I have a modern burn deck, I don't play often but I can sweep some FNM's and my local shops league pretty easily, so, competetive. I've jund in some Jund, Birthing Pod decks, Amulet Bloom. That has never deterred me from being objective with my observations. Lots of cards are bad, true, but like I said, negativity is easy, complaining is easy. What's hard is seeing the good, because sometimes, you've got to dig really deep.
Well said!
I just made a similar, less detailed comment in the thread for Spell Swindle—
In a vacuum, that card is not great, but it has all kinds of potential when you use it to support other strategies.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
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Sen Triplets
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Jeff Goldblum, is that you?
I think you're still an Opal or a SSG short. This costs 2. Drum costs 1. After you tap your land to drop Drums, you can tap the thopter and the drum for one mana... but you still need another one.
Blue is still the best.
On phasing:
Read my other stories as well (some ongoing):
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Seriously, if you can hit a flying one drop, or clear the way, this can flip turn 3 putting you at 7 on turn four. That's pretty crazy.
Dammit, I missed that errata
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The discussion is still relevant. In fact, it's only relevant for special discussion today because of that errata.
Before today's new-rule reveal, Blood Moon and Magus of the Moon prevented "When ~ enters the battlefield" triggers from occurring, but the Moon duo didn't affect "As ~ enters the battlefield", "~ enters the battlefield (with condition)", and "If ~ would enter the battlefield, do (something) instead (or something else happens)". As I covered earlier, before today, when a Khalni Garden was played while one of the Moonies was on the battlefield, it would still enter the battlefield tapped, but it would enter the battlefield as a tapped mountain and no Plant token would be created.
After today's rule reversal, if a Khalni Garden enters a Mooned battlefield , it enters as an untapped Mountain. It still doesn't make a Plant token, but it's not subject to its own "Enters the battlefield tapped" clause anymore. Basically, the game is making the Moon override even before it does replacement effects that would occur as a land enters or would enter the battlefield.
This is why Lotus Vale's behaviour changed today. If Lotus Vale was still a trigger (if it was played as-printed), today wouldn't have changed anything - the Moon effect was squishing all nonbasic lands' enters-the-battlefield triggers before, and it still is. But as the Lotus Vale *isn't* an ETB trigger anymore - it's a replacement effect that happens as LV would enter the battlefield - its behaviour was changed by today's rulechange.
Before today, if you played Lotus Vale with a Moon out, you still had to sacrifice two untapped lands or else replace putting it on the battlefield with putting it in the graveyard instead. All to get a land on the battlefield that would only be a mountain anyway. As of today (or whenever this ruling becomes official, unsure if there's a formal date for that), if you play a Lotus Vale with a Moon out, it becomes a Mountain before the game would try to handle its sacrifice clause, and so it would enter the battlefield without any sacrifice. It would still be a Mountain, of course, but if at some later time that Moon were to go away, you'd be left with a functioning Lotus Vale that you got into play without having to pay lands for.
Correct.
woops. Misread, thought it cost 1.
Modern:
UU TronU
URUR StormUR
RBWBurnRBW
EDH:
RBGProssh,skyraider of kherGBR
RKrenko,Mob BossR
URMelek,Izzet ParagonRU
RDaretti, Scrap savantR
WBTriad of fatesBW
Standard: BG Golgari Midrange
Modern: U Merfolk GWUBR 5 Color Humans UBW Esper Gifts GW Bogles
for a second before the rules unequip it.
Really great land, will def. try this in some EDH decks which already run Lotus Vale
(though Scorched Ruin is a bit more frequently used by me).
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
This is why folks here paint you as a "complainer", or more aptly, a negative Nancy. You don't know that anything you just said is certain, yet you parade your words and insight around as though it's fact. It's speculation, on both sides. However, those praising its capabilities rarely do so with your type of "bravado". "Card looks good, can't wait to try it out" "This could really work, can't wait to see" "I'll be trying this in X, Y, Z". Not "wow, you guys have no idea what your talking about, this card is going to set Vintage on fire! Breaks out dah ban hammah".
Like, I get it. It's easy to complain and be negative, it requires no work. We all know you won't be here to "eat crow" if this happens to star, so regardless of how intelligent you make yourself sound, your nothing more than a troll.
Also, if you'd like to be taken more seriously, or to not be constantly hated on, don't start your responses with "Ha!".
Cards like these can be backbones of soon-to-be tier 1 decks. Summer Bloom comes to mind, bet when that was applied you didn't say "This card will get banned".
So, in short, slow your roll there pal.
2)I said this particular card is tailored for commander. How the heck is that complaining? I didn't say it was bad ot that it shouldn't be printed, I even said it might see play in standard! However, you, all high and mighty, thinks that is not good enough, and that THIS CARD will be playable in eternal formats. No, it won't. It has a clear design issue - its payoff (the land side) is for big mana decks, but to get such payoff you need to be playing cheap AND evasive creatures. What deck meets such requirements in eternal formats? None that I know of. I asked you if you knew of some, and you diverged to personal attacks, meaning you got nothing.
3) The problem with people like you is that if someone like me doesn't immediately jump on the hype train, or immediately tries to scramble for shells to play a new card, we are negative. Here is the cold harsh truth bud: MOST CARDS don't see constructive play. Including MANY RARE and INTERESTING cards. I'm sorry, that's just how it is. If someone can make a completely new eternal deck that will somehow break this card, then congratulations. If someone asked me before the printing of Nourishing Shoal if such a card would be playable I would say 'hell no', but the card found its shell in a bizarre griselbrand combo deck. So yeah, of course I might be wrong, but I'm giving you clear reasons as to why this card is not gonna see play and you answer me with 'all you can do is complain, bu-huh'. Pleas tell me, which one of us do you think sounds more reasonable?
EDIT: it is funny because I spent the last few days on the Modern Mefolk thread defending my position of how kumena speaker and merfolk branchwalker, new cards from Ixalan, might be a good addition for the deck. I was defending cards that are almost a natural fit to an alrady existing strategy and I was met with much more skepticism than you could possibly imagine. I wonder what it would happen if you showed up in some of the tier deck threads suggesting that they play dowsing dagger...
Read my other stories as well (some ongoing):
Reaper King (a horror story), Kaalia of the Vast (an origin story), Sequels for Innistrad (Alternative sequels for Inn), Grey Areas (Odric's fanfic), Royal Succession (goblins),The Tracker's Message (eldrazi on Innistrad) and Ugin and his Eye (the end of OGW).
However, no mention of the cards where I was right about huh? Of course not, why bother? Let's just cherrypick. Here, do the following: if you think Dowsing Dagger is gonna be such a roleplayer, and you know so much better than I do, buy some playsets. I mean, it is just free money right? You buy playsets of this obvious powerhouse then proceed to profit later. Excellent deal.
Read my other stories as well (some ongoing):
Reaper King (a horror story), Kaalia of the Vast (an origin story), Sequels for Innistrad (Alternative sequels for Inn), Grey Areas (Odric's fanfic), Royal Succession (goblins),The Tracker's Message (eldrazi on Innistrad) and Ugin and his Eye (the end of OGW).
I'm not certain this card will be good. You're not actually arguing against someone who has a strong stake in this card. You're arguing against people who think having a stance so strong and infallible to get as aggressive as you have been is ridiculous.
First, it was me who first said something about this card in the lines of 'funny in commander, maybe playable in standard, not good anywhere else because of design constrains'. That was all. Am I being unreasonable? Did I piled on someone? Did I go balls to the wall? I don't think so. Then along comes user Buffsam89 that answers me with:
1) I complain too much, despite my reasonable commentary on the card.
2) I'm not creative, because I'm saying a card with design constrains will not see play in highly selective competitive formats.
3) Says there is no reason for this card NOT TO BE FLIPPING ON TURN 2. Then says that he pictures this card in a u/w control shell with spiketail hatchling. WHAT? I mean... what? Am I suppose to take this seriously? This is kitchen-table level brewing right here.
So yeah, my second response was in sheer disbelief of the U/W control deck with cancel, spiketail hatchling and dowsing dagger that is gonna make waves in modern. I still think I was very measured in that response. I'm making an effort here to point out why the card is not playable. If anything, the only reason I can see people playing this card in a truly competitive shell is to take advantage of the fact that it puts creatures on your opponent's board for a cheap cost, and then you combo that with a defense of the heart or oath of druids type of card, and that is it. However, there is a better and cheaper way to do that in forbidden orchard, so yeah, rough times for the dagger. Maybe in nic fit planeswalkers? No clue, go ahead, test it, tell me how it goes, I'm pretty sure it is not gonna go well.
Read my other stories as well (some ongoing):
Reaper King (a horror story), Kaalia of the Vast (an origin story), Sequels for Innistrad (Alternative sequels for Inn), Grey Areas (Odric's fanfic), Royal Succession (goblins),The Tracker's Message (eldrazi on Innistrad) and Ugin and his Eye (the end of OGW).
I thought it was different because the other cards do say As it enters but Lotus Vale says If it would enter and I assumed it worked differently. Thanks for the detailed clarification.
This, right here. Exactly, you were in a forum dedicated to discussing the competetive nature of certain cards to build a competetive deck. That is not this place. Nobody, NOBODY, even you, can determine the playability of a card without playtesting. You are lying to yourself if you don't believe that statement. Furthermore, the whole damn set hasn't even been spoiled yet. How the hell do you know that more cards wouldn't be printed to create a deck where this will find a home and be a cog. You don't, and that's the most factual point in this whole entire thread, and it applies to every single one of us. We can speculate, and analyze. This thread has EDH folks, it has Modern Folks, Standard, Casual, Variant, etc. This card will find a home in a few of those formats, and in an even larger amount of decks. I mean, me, right here, I'll play this card. I have a modern burn deck, I don't play often but I can sweep some FNM's and my local shops league pretty easily, so, competetive. I've jund in some Jund, Birthing Pod decks, Amulet Bloom. That has never deterred me from being objective with my observations. Lots of cards are bad, true, but like I said, negativity is easy, complaining is easy. What's hard is seeing the good, because sometimes, you've got to dig really deep.
Well said!
I just made a similar, less detailed comment in the thread for Spell Swindle—
In a vacuum, that card is not great, but it has all kinds of potential when you use it to support other strategies.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW