I was super impressed by Arena. If I can play real Standard and Draft (for free!), I'll be very, very pleased. I really hope physical packs will come with digital redemption codes like Pokemon CCG offers. That's my one big request not addressed by the demo.
From what I could gather from the stream's Q&A, that appears to be the intent in the future.
They hinted at it, but left it pretty vague. The potential excites me so much.
On another note, I wish other people were as hyped as I am for this game. I see little discussion and quite a few complaints.
There are always people who complain, WotC could put a hundred dollar bill in each booster and people would complain it was two-hundred. >.<
But let me tell you how excited I am for Arena. Not only did I sign up for the Beta, I actually logged into Duels, which I haven't played since SOI, dug out my Duels ID number, and connected my Duals account to my WotC account, just to increase the chance of getting into the Beta. That's how friggin' excited I am.
Speaking of which, they showed us the Ixalan board, and it seem pretty obvious by now that they intend to have different boards represent different planes. Personally I'd like it if you could select a "default" board to use when you duel, so if you have a favorite, that's the default for you. I would also like it if they released "plane packs" when the game is released that include older planes or planes we are not likely to visit, such as a "Rabiah" board, or an "Old Phyrexia" board, or even, gasp, an "Ulgrotha" board. It would be friggin' sweet.
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
WotC could put a hundred dollar bill in each booster and people would complain
Incorrect. A hundred dollars can be used for something and might still exist three years from now.
There should only be one official Magic The Gathering client. It could have a small stream of free product. It could have a single player Shandalar style campaign. There's no reason to fragment their product and player base like this. None.
All this because some guy in a suit saw the $ Blizzard was making with Hearthstone. Should've been a new game designed for the digital space. Should've been an investment into developing Wizards Digital's reputation and brand.
WotC could put a hundred dollar bill in each booster and people would complain
Incorrect. A hundred dollars can be used for something and might still exist three years from now.
There should only be one official Magic The Gathering client. It could have a small stream of free product. It could have a single player Shandalar style campaign. There's no reason to fragment their product and player base like this. None.
All this because some guy in a suit saw the $ Blizzard was making with Hearthstone. Should've been a new game designed for the digital space. Should've been an investment into developing Wizards Digital's reputation and brand.
If there is ever a single digital MTG client, it will be because they phase out MTGO, not because they stop making Duels/Arena. Duels has been too successful of a new player acquisition tool for them.
WotC could put a hundred dollar bill in each booster and people would complain
Incorrect. A hundred dollars can be used for something and might still exist three years from now.
There should only be one official Magic The Gathering client. It could have a small stream of free product. It could have a single player Shandalar style campaign. There's no reason to fragment their product and player base like this. None.
All this because some guy in a suit saw the $ Blizzard was making with Hearthstone. Should've been a new game designed for the digital space. Should've been an investment into developing Wizards Digital's reputation and brand.
Considering that Arena is going to be free, I don't understand your complaint, at all.
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
I really hope that there will be the chance of getting all the cards in a reasonable amount of time/play-time like in duels and that they won't just port the "want cards? destroy your old ones or pay us money hoping to get what you need" system from heartstone.
I enjoyed collecting cards in Duels because every pack meant that I was getting card I didn't have and not just getting tons of junk to destroy in order to create an actually useful card like Heartstone does.
There needs to be some overlap here. While it's harder to complete a collection in Hearthstone, it was harder to get individual cards for deck building in Duels (a problem that got infinitely worse for new players the longer the game was around). There are ways to cut down on duplicates in packs -- Hearthstone recently changed packs to prevent duplicate legendaries, and similar happened with all items in Overwatch loot boxes -- so it's not a problem strictly inherent to the overall system.
At the end of the day, getting some duplicates is a necessary evil that makes it easier for players to build the decks they want to build. As long as Arena can implement some amount of duplicate protection, make breakdown/crafting rates not absurd, and allow players to keep cards they pull in Draft or Sealed, the HS method is ultimately better for everybody than the packs-only-no-duplicates method from Duels.
I really hope that there will be the chance of getting all the cards in a reasonable amount of time/play-time like in duels and that they won't just port the "want cards? destroy your old ones or pay us money hoping to get what you need" system from heartstone.
I enjoyed collecting cards in Duels because every pack meant that I was getting card I didn't have and not just getting tons of junk to destroy in order to create an actually useful card like Heartstone does.
There needs to be some overlap here. While it's harder to complete a collection in Hearthstone, it was harder to get individual cards for deck building in Duels (a problem that got infinitely worse for new players the longer the game was around). There are ways to cut down on duplicates in packs -- Hearthstone recently changed packs to prevent duplicate legendaries, and similar happened with all items in Overwatch loot boxes -- so it's not a problem strictly inherent to the overall system.
At the end of the day, getting some duplicates is a necessary evil that makes it easier for players to build the decks they want to build. As long as Arena can implement some amount of duplicate protection, make breakdown/crafting rates not absurd, and allow players to keep cards they pull in Draft or Sealed, the HS method is ultimately better for everybody than the packs-only-no-duplicates method from Duels.
Speaking of this, one thing they need to implement in Arena is properly sized booster packs, this six cards to a pack crap needs to stop. Give me a proper booster with fifteen cards. I don't friggin' care if I only get one rare and three uncommon, just give me a properly sized booster.
And for sets that have smaller boosters (if they decide to eventually make old sets available in Arena), make them the size that the real boosters were/are.
Just this small change would be a major step up from Duels.
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
If there is ever a single digital MTG client, it will be because they phase out MTGO, not because they stop making Duels/Arena. Duels has been too successful of a new player acquisition tool for them.
Right. Duels should have been the new frontend in the first place. It's been so weird seeing them rebuild the wheel all from scratch over and over again over the decades.
Considering that Arena is going to be free, I don't understand your complaint, at all.
Nothing is free.
From the player's perspective, it's going to end up discontinued like Magic Duels. Some are fine with that kind of transience in their investment, some aren't.
From a developer's perspective, it's like watching a carpenter hammer nails into his hand all day.
There's a minor moral imperative to pause briefly and suggest "You uh, probably shouldn't do it like that" before passing on by.
This announcement is really stressing me out. I have a decent sized collection on MTGO (probably $500 ish?) and I keep going back and forth on whether I should just cash out, abandon ship and wait for the dust to settle or if I should keep my collection and just hope MTGO survives.
They claim they won't shut down MTGO, but that doesn't mean the online player base won't get split between MTGO and Arena, causing MTGO to slowly bleed to death. As the player base goes down for MTGO, so do the card values. Maybe it's best just to make a clean break right now?
This announcement is really stressing me out. I have a decent sized collection on MTGO (probably $500 ish?) and I keep going back and forth on whether I should just cash out, abandon ship and wait for the dust to settle or if I should keep my collection and just hope MTGO survives.
They claim they won't shut down MTGO, but that doesn't mean the online player base won't get split between MTGO and Arena, causing MTGO to slowly bleed to death. As the player base goes down for MTGO, so do the card values. Maybe it's best just to make a clean break right now?
I think this will definitely happen IF Arena really catches on. Eventually they'll put all of the older formats on there and move MOCs onto it along with the other big online tournaments. They want to be an e sport so they will move anything significant from mtgo to Arena as soon as it's viable. It will get to the point where there is just no reason to use MTGO.
If there is ever a single digital MTG client, it will be because they phase out MTGO, not because they stop making Duels/Arena. Duels has been too successful of a new player acquisition tool for them.
Right. Duels should have been the new frontend in the first place. It's been so weird seeing them rebuild the wheel all from scratch over and over again over the decades.
Considering that Arena is going to be free, I don't understand your complaint, at all.
Nothing is free.
From the player's perspective, it's going to end up discontinued like Magic Duels. Some are fine with that kind of transience in their investment, some aren't.
From a developer's perspective, it's like watching a carpenter hammer nails into his hand all day.
There's a minor moral imperative to pause briefly and suggest "You uh, probably shouldn't do it like that" before passing on by.
If you don't have to spend money on getting it, or in any part of it, then yes, it is by definition free.
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
I'd really hope that they would do what Pokemon do and reward you for buying physical product by giving you the digital product code with it but I can't see WOTC being so generous.
That would be absolutely awesome, and what's more, there's no reason that digital product from MTGO couldn't also do the same, in order to continue supporting Legacy formats that the Arena team doesn't have to worry about.
So, uh, how does one cash out on MTGO, exactly?
I played some years ago, but have no intention of ever going back.
I sold my online collection to a rl friend for $400 in the day. Just ask around your fellow newsgroups and friends, highlight the good stuff/avatars you have and go from there.
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The "Crazy One", playing casual magic and occasionally dipping his toes into regular play since 1994.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
This announcement is really stressing me out. I have a decent sized collection on MTGO (probably $500 ish?) and I keep going back and forth on whether I should just cash out, abandon ship and wait for the dust to settle or if I should keep my collection and just hope MTGO survives.
They claim they won't shut down MTGO, but that doesn't mean the online player base won't get split between MTGO and Arena, causing MTGO to slowly bleed to death. As the player base goes down for MTGO, so do the card values.
You don't have to worry. This isn't going to replace MODO. It'll be a miracle if it survives longer than 3 years.
You can worry that MODO will continue on the same trajectory it's currently on, since they've done nothing to change it. If the playerbase is going up, it'll continue to do so. If it's bleeding to death, it will continue to do so.
With the competition from Hearthstone, HEX: Shards of Fate, and tons elsewhere, it's only natural a game so old with such shoddy digital support would fall out of vogue eventually.
Quote from krishnath » »
If you don't have to spend money on getting it, or in any part of it, then yes, it is by definition free.
If the only thing you value is currency, yes you are right. If you value anything else, than, no.
[quote]
If the only thing you value is currency, yes you are right. If you value anything else, than, no.
How is playing one videogame any different than playing another in the measurement of time? Not at all. You play whatever game you find entertaining, be it MTG:Arena, Civilization 6, Pools of Radiance, WoW, or any other game. But unlike most other games, Arena won't cost you money if you don't want to spend money. Everything will be available to be achieved in game without spending a cent. Now whether or not you will be entertained by the game, that is entirely up to you, but simply dismissing it and being negative about it for no apparent reason doesn't paint you in a fair light. If you are going to be negative about something, at least explain your reasoning other than "It's not MODO therefore it sucks" or "It's a copy of Hearthstone, therefore it is bad". We know nearly nothing about the game, and pretty much all they have told and shown us are good things.
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
If there is ever a single digital MTG client, it will be because they phase out MTGO, not because they stop making Duels/Arena. Duels has been too successful of a new player acquisition tool for them.
Right. Duels should have been the new frontend in the first place. It's been so weird seeing them rebuild the wheel all from scratch over and over again over the decades.
Considering that Arena is going to be free, I don't understand your complaint, at all.
Nothing is free.
From the player's perspective, it's going to end up discontinued like Magic Duels. Some are fine with that kind of transience in their investment, some aren't.
From a developer's perspective, it's like watching a carpenter hammer nails into his hand all day.
There's a minor moral imperative to pause briefly and suggest "You uh, probably shouldn't do it like that" before passing on by.
If you don't have to spend money on getting it, or in any part of it, then yes, it is by definition free.
I suspect it will be like most other "free" games and have in app purchases of booster packs if you want to be really competitive. I'm completely fine if they want to eliminate the secondary market from Arena. It's amazing how fast an online market becomes degenerate and taken over by bots. D3 gold market was a prime example. Free to start but if you want to be competitive on it, I highly suspect you'll need to pay something.
"We want popular MTG Arena streams to consistently be among the most-viewed streams on Twitch. We want players to eagerly anticipate MTG Arena draft nights with their friends around the world. We want pro players' competitive ladder matches to be watched with the same fervor as a Grand Prix."
This is where the Frontier (or whatever it's called) starts to my eyes. Ixalan.
See you in three year time to check if I'm right or wrong
I said (essentially) the same thing in the "other" thread three days ago...
Quote from Jhyrryl »
Since MtGA will focus on Standard, and specifically it looks like they'll be starting with the Ixalan rotation...I'm making a bet that they are already planning a new Legacy format that only includes cards available in MtGA, so starting with Kaladesh.
I expect MtGO to continue as is, in order to be the place where Vintage, Legacy, Modern, Commander, Pauper, Cube, etc. are all played, except that Post-Modern "Arena" versions are inevitable, given enough demand. And the demand will most definitely be there.
If Arena is a success (bug-free/fun), MTGO is slowly going to die. Don't see how they can possibly coexist.
Arena is also a fantastic opportunity to tie-in "freebies/extras" to their paper product. Something Hearthstone can't do. And if anyone doesn't think MTG can work without an economy I direct you to the Hearthstone sales. Arena has the potential to be the best of both worlds by supplementing Paper (which Hasbro would double-dip from, lol) and being a unique game.
It's an instant speed 5/5 trampler for 4. Wtf do you people want seriously? It has applications in populate/ above the curve beats decks, or in Bant control/ flash. I seriously think anyone mad at this card for any reason other than losing an attacker to instant speed wurm, should go home and make their own awesome card game and leave the rest of us alone.
If Arena is a success (bug-free/fun), MTGO is slowly going to die. Don't see how they can possibly coexist.
Arena is also a fantastic opportunity to tie-in "freebies/extras" to their paper product. Something Hearthstone can't do. And if anyone doesn't think MTG can work without an economy I direct you to the Hearthstone sales. Arena has the potential to be the best of both worlds by supplementing Paper (which Hasbro would double-dip from, lol) and being a unique game.
MTGO will still exist for people that want to play Legacy and Vintage and stuff. If Arena eventually adds the Legacy card pool, there will be no reason to play MTGO anymore.
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The "Crazy One", playing casual magic and occasionally dipping his toes into regular play since 1994.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
My only fear with the "Arena for Standard, MTGO for everything else...." idea is what happens when the next Fatal Push is printed in a Standard set? Where does the volume of a Standard-card come from to deal with the demand fron Modern/Legacy players on MTGO?
If no one is opening packs/drafting Standard on MTGO; are we really going to have to crack packs until we get the one Modern-Legal card we want? Lord help us if we need a set...especially if it's mythic! Hopefully they will address this with enough player "communication".
I personally feel if they truly believe Arena is the best player experience there is...they should want to give that to all players (rather than fragment their digital products). It is possible they do; and the logistics are just a nightmare.
I do understand that this would likely take an exceedingly long time to develop...so I don't think it is 100% WOTC showing little care for non-Standard formats.
My only fear with the "Arena for Standard, MTGO for everything else...." idea is what happens when the next Fatal Push is printed in a Standard set? Where does the volume of a Standard-card come from to deal with the demand fron Modern/Legacy players on MTGO?
If no one is opening packs/drafting Standard on MTGO; are we really going to have to crack packs until we get the one Modern-Legal card we want? Lord help us if we need a set...especially if it's mythic! Hopefully they will address this with enough player "communication".
I personally feel if they truly believe Arena is the best player experience there is...they should want to give that to all players (rather than fragment their digital products). It is possible they do; and the logistics are just a nightmare.
I do understand that this would likely take an exceedingly long time to develop...so I don't think it is 100% WOTC showing little care for non-Standard formats.
That's my guess as well: they want to make arena the one stop shop for magic online, but a combination of logistics and programming stuff is making them use standard as a test case. If Arena is wildly successful, they'll start working (behind the scenes) to figure out how to port everything over properly and keep people happy. If Arena dies in flames, they'll likely move those resources back to MTGO, and go from there. Anything in between, they'll improvise.
Pretty clear they start with standard as importing ALL cards would simply be too much to start with (and you better sell a bunch of standard stuff, before you release older cards).
Wonderfull video about Magic Arena.
This guy have tried Arena and said they FINALLY have the perfect Magic digital game and rest of the video is pretty much a series of ironic examples of how Wizard can screw up their own game with:
- PC only
- English only
- Standard only
- High price booster
- No bridge between digital and paper game
- etc..
Video doesn´t work for me even if you delete the "=" at the beginning of the link.
Also, I´m pretty sure the beta is english only while the full game will be available in other languages of course
Wonderfull video about Magic Arena.
This guy have tried Arena and said they FINALLY have the perfect Magic digital game and rest of the video is pretty much a series of ironic examples of how Wizard can screw up their own game with:
- PC only
- English only
- Standard only
- High price booster
- No bridge between digital and paper game
- etc..
Video doesn´t work for me even if you delete the "=" at the beginning of the link.
Also, I´m pretty sure the beta is english only while the full game will be available in other languages of course
The actual link is missing the colon after the https and before the // for some reason. If you click on the link, then replace all the text before the // with https: the vid should load.
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There are always people who complain, WotC could put a hundred dollar bill in each booster and people would complain it was two-hundred. >.<
But let me tell you how excited I am for Arena. Not only did I sign up for the Beta, I actually logged into Duels, which I haven't played since SOI, dug out my Duels ID number, and connected my Duals account to my WotC account, just to increase the chance of getting into the Beta. That's how friggin' excited I am.
Speaking of which, they showed us the Ixalan board, and it seem pretty obvious by now that they intend to have different boards represent different planes. Personally I'd like it if you could select a "default" board to use when you duel, so if you have a favorite, that's the default for you. I would also like it if they released "plane packs" when the game is released that include older planes or planes we are not likely to visit, such as a "Rabiah" board, or an "Old Phyrexia" board, or even, gasp, an "Ulgrotha" board. It would be friggin' sweet.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
Incorrect. A hundred dollars can be used for something and might still exist three years from now.
There should only be one official Magic The Gathering client. It could have a small stream of free product. It could have a single player Shandalar style campaign. There's no reason to fragment their product and player base like this. None.
All this because some guy in a suit saw the $ Blizzard was making with Hearthstone. Should've been a new game designed for the digital space. Should've been an investment into developing Wizards Digital's reputation and brand.
If there is ever a single digital MTG client, it will be because they phase out MTGO, not because they stop making Duels/Arena. Duels has been too successful of a new player acquisition tool for them.
Considering that Arena is going to be free, I don't understand your complaint, at all.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
At the end of the day, getting some duplicates is a necessary evil that makes it easier for players to build the decks they want to build. As long as Arena can implement some amount of duplicate protection, make breakdown/crafting rates not absurd, and allow players to keep cards they pull in Draft or Sealed, the HS method is ultimately better for everybody than the packs-only-no-duplicates method from Duels.
Speaking of this, one thing they need to implement in Arena is properly sized booster packs, this six cards to a pack crap needs to stop. Give me a proper booster with fifteen cards. I don't friggin' care if I only get one rare and three uncommon, just give me a properly sized booster.
And for sets that have smaller boosters (if they decide to eventually make old sets available in Arena), make them the size that the real boosters were/are.
Just this small change would be a major step up from Duels.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
Right. Duels should have been the new frontend in the first place. It's been so weird seeing them rebuild the wheel all from scratch over and over again over the decades.
Nothing is free.
From the player's perspective, it's going to end up discontinued like Magic Duels. Some are fine with that kind of transience in their investment, some aren't.
From a developer's perspective, it's like watching a carpenter hammer nails into his hand all day.
There's a minor moral imperative to pause briefly and suggest "You uh, probably shouldn't do it like that" before passing on by.
They claim they won't shut down MTGO, but that doesn't mean the online player base won't get split between MTGO and Arena, causing MTGO to slowly bleed to death. As the player base goes down for MTGO, so do the card values. Maybe it's best just to make a clean break right now?
I think this will definitely happen IF Arena really catches on. Eventually they'll put all of the older formats on there and move MOCs onto it along with the other big online tournaments. They want to be an e sport so they will move anything significant from mtgo to Arena as soon as it's viable. It will get to the point where there is just no reason to use MTGO.
GW Tron list - http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/06-09-17-gw-tron/
Mono U Tron - http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/mono-u-tron-4/
If you don't have to spend money on getting it, or in any part of it, then yes, it is by definition free.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
I sold my online collection to a rl friend for $400 in the day. Just ask around your fellow newsgroups and friends, highlight the good stuff/avatars you have and go from there.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
GW Tron list - http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/06-09-17-gw-tron/
Mono U Tron - http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/mono-u-tron-4/
You don't have to worry. This isn't going to replace MODO. It'll be a miracle if it survives longer than 3 years.
You can worry that MODO will continue on the same trajectory it's currently on, since they've done nothing to change it. If the playerbase is going up, it'll continue to do so. If it's bleeding to death, it will continue to do so.
With the competition from Hearthstone, HEX: Shards of Fate, and tons elsewhere, it's only natural a game so old with such shoddy digital support would fall out of vogue eventually.
If the only thing you value is currency, yes you are right. If you value anything else, than, no.
How is playing one videogame any different than playing another in the measurement of time? Not at all. You play whatever game you find entertaining, be it MTG:Arena, Civilization 6, Pools of Radiance, WoW, or any other game. But unlike most other games, Arena won't cost you money if you don't want to spend money. Everything will be available to be achieved in game without spending a cent. Now whether or not you will be entertained by the game, that is entirely up to you, but simply dismissing it and being negative about it for no apparent reason doesn't paint you in a fair light. If you are going to be negative about something, at least explain your reasoning other than "It's not MODO therefore it sucks" or "It's a copy of Hearthstone, therefore it is bad". We know nearly nothing about the game, and pretty much all they have told and shown us are good things.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
I suspect it will be like most other "free" games and have in app purchases of booster packs if you want to be really competitive. I'm completely fine if they want to eliminate the secondary market from Arena. It's amazing how fast an online market becomes degenerate and taken over by bots. D3 gold market was a prime example. Free to start but if you want to be competitive on it, I highly suspect you'll need to pay something.
I expect MtGO to continue as is, in order to be the place where Vintage, Legacy, Modern, Commander, Pauper, Cube, etc. are all played, except that Post-Modern "Arena" versions are inevitable, given enough demand. And the demand will most definitely be there.
Arena is also a fantastic opportunity to tie-in "freebies/extras" to their paper product. Something Hearthstone can't do. And if anyone doesn't think MTG can work without an economy I direct you to the Hearthstone sales. Arena has the potential to be the best of both worlds by supplementing Paper (which Hasbro would double-dip from, lol) and being a unique game.
MTGO will still exist for people that want to play Legacy and Vintage and stuff. If Arena eventually adds the Legacy card pool, there will be no reason to play MTGO anymore.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
If no one is opening packs/drafting Standard on MTGO; are we really going to have to crack packs until we get the one Modern-Legal card we want? Lord help us if we need a set...especially if it's mythic! Hopefully they will address this with enough player "communication".
I personally feel if they truly believe Arena is the best player experience there is...they should want to give that to all players (rather than fragment their digital products). It is possible they do; and the logistics are just a nightmare.
I do understand that this would likely take an exceedingly long time to develop...so I don't think it is 100% WOTC showing little care for non-Standard formats.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
Video doesn´t work for me even if you delete the "=" at the beginning of the link.
Also, I´m pretty sure the beta is english only while the full game will be available in other languages of course
The actual link is missing the colon after the https and before the // for some reason. If you click on the link, then replace all the text before the // with https: the vid should load.