Excitement may be tempered by the simultaneous realization that its eventual ban is probably already written in ink.
They took down Ponder, Preordain, and Probe. I don't think they want people to be able to run multiple blue 1-cantrips. Either this or Serum Visions should start writing its will.
Given that this was just printed, RIP Serum Visions.
Super excited for Opt though! Also, I neither hate nor adore the Duress art, but I love its flavor text.
"It is better for all the world if, instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind. The principle that sustains compulsory vaccination is broad enough to cover cutting the Fallopian tubes... Three generations of imbeciles are enough."
--Buck v Bell, 1927. This case, regarding the compulsory sterilization of inmates at mental institutions, has -- somehow -- never been overturned. Just a wee PSA for ya.
The nonsense about Opt being banned in Mmodern is ridiculous. Some just seem to be reacting with the prospect of a ban as the starting point for their thinking without then considering why it will be banned. All we're seeing is the first stage of the process. Intuitions alone are not valid, nor intelligent regardless of whether they turn out to be correct.
If someone is so convinced, they should keep it quiet, test the card and figure out what's going to make it degenerate.
For the matter of Opt, I actually played with it in various formats over the last seventeen years. It's a fine card, but its not that good and if it does anything broken, it will probably be giving too much redundancy to a deck. Assuming that, the next question begged is whether it will be that broken and if one of the cards that are part of the combo that it assembles won't get banned instead.
From there, we're led back to the question of what's going to make it ban-worthy. Personally, I don't think it will push any existing Modern deck over the top. It is nice for Storm, but it won't be that good. One of the biggest potential winners are Ux decks because its less clunky than Serum Visions and yields more opportunities for getting value out of snapcasters. In general, unless a deck needs more cantrips or ones that are instant speed, Opt is unlikely to replace Serum Visions.
It drives me crazy how people will share their intuitions immediately, rather than asking themselves "why?" a few times and bringing something more useful/intelligent to the table.
The nonsense about Opt being banned in Mmodern is ridiculous. Some just seem to be reacting with the prospect of a ban as the starting point for their thinking without then considering why it will be banned. All we're seeing is the first stage of the process. Intuitions alone are not valid, nor intelligent regardless of whether they turn out to be correct.
If someone is so convinced, they should keep it quiet, test the card and figure out what's going to make it degenerate.
For the matter of Opt, I actually played with it in various formats over the last seventeen years. It's a fine card, but its not that good and if it does anything broken, it will probably be giving too much redundancy to a deck. Assuming that, the next question begged is whether it will be that broken and if one of the cards that are part of the combo that it assembles won't get banned instead.
From there, we're led back to the question of what's going to make it ban-worthy. Personally, I don't think it will push any existing Modern deck over the top. It is nice for Storm, but it won't be that good. One of the biggest potential winners are Ux decks because its less clunky than Serum Visions and yields more opportunities for getting value out of snapcasters. In general, unless a deck needs more cantrips or ones that are instant speed, Opt is unlikely to replace Serum Visions.
It drives me crazy how people will share their intuitions immediately, rather than asking themselves "why?" a few times and bringing something more useful/intelligent to the table.
Yea from my experience people are traditionally bad at judging cards. Theory crafting - I don't think opt will break anything. The decks that would often be "broken" by extra cantrips don't care about instant speed. Slight of Hand and serum visions all dig deeper.
I am most excited because this card solves alot of the clunkiness in current control builds. You want a good cantrip to smooth out early draws, but in modern the first few turns are critical. Tapping out for serum visions can set you way behind.
Intuitions alone are not valid, nor intelligent regardless of whether they turn out to be correct.
If someone is so convinced, they should keep it quiet, test the card and figure out what's going to make it degenerate.
...
It drives me crazy how people will share their intuitions immediately, rather than asking themselves "why?" a few times and bringing something more useful/intelligent to the table.
Wow, great debate technique, going straight for the "Because your initial reaction is different than mine, you're unintelligent" angle - multiple times, even!
My reasoning (and I am capable of reasoning, thankyouverymuch, can you please try to keep the future responses on the topic of THE TOPIC and not insulting the intelligence of people who dare disagree with you?) is that:
a) They don't seem to like allowing too many 1-cost cantrips in Modern. As a result, I think they will pare the field by one. It might be Opt, it might be Serum Visions, it might even be Sleight of Hand, but I don't think they will want all of them to exist at once.
and
b) They've stated repeatedly they test and release cards almost entirely for standard and limited, and they let bans take care of things that ruffle older formats. This was most recently demonstrated with Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time. As such I don't believe they'd necessarily be adverse to banning Opt even fresh off its printing.
We obviously disagree, and I really don't expect to change your mind. But I do expect the decorum of you to accept that others can have different opinions than you do, actually have done the reasoning behind their opinion, and deserve better discussion then "You didn't think, you have no intelligence!", which was the nuts and bolts of your reaction above. Good day.
Intuitions alone are not valid, nor intelligent regardless of whether they turn out to be correct.
If someone is so convinced, they should keep it quiet, test the card and figure out what's going to make it degenerate.
...
It drives me crazy how people will share their intuitions immediately, rather than asking themselves "why?" a few times and bringing something more useful/intelligent to the table.
Wow, great debate technique, going straight for the "Because your initial reaction is different than mine, you're unintelligent" angle - multiple times, even!
My reasoning (and I am capable of reasoning, thankyouverymuch, can you please try to keep the future responses on the topic of THE TOPIC and not insulting the intelligence of people who dare disagree with you?) is that:
a) They don't seem to like allowing too many 1-cost cantrips in Modern. As a result, I think they will pare the field by one. It might be Opt, it might be Serum Visions, it might even be Sleight of Hand, but I don't think they will want all of them to exist at once.
and
b) They've stated repeatedly they test and release cards almost entirely for standard and limited, and they let bans take care of things that ruffle older formats. This was most recently demonstrated with Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time. As such I don't believe they'd necessarily be adverse to banning Opt even fresh off its printing.
We obviously disagree, and I really don't expect to change your mind. But I do expect the decorum of you to accept that others can have different opinions than you do, actually have done the reasoning behind their opinion, and deserve better discussion then "You didn't think, you have no intelligence!", which was the nuts and bolts of your reaction above. Good day.
I don't think historically you can ever make the claim that "they don't like 1-mana cantrips in modern". With the exception of [card]Gitaxian Probe{/card] (which doesn't really count because it's free) all currently banned cantrips were banned near the start of modern to keep storm in check. Morever all of those banned cards are stronger than opt.
Lay bare is still good. It hits creatures. Tell me how thats not good.
Generally speaking, black decks can already handle creatures just fine with removal, which means the added flexibility is rarely worth the increase in CMC, so discarding noncreature cards is going to be the usual course of action even for Lay Bare the Heart. The ability to use the card on turn 1 or to only spend a single additional mana to pick off a removal or counter before playing a threat should not be underestimated by any means. There's a reason why nobody plays Distress in Modern.
Opt is in no way as broken as Treasure Cruise. The later could often be draw 3 for one blue depending on the build and even draw 3 for 3 is pretty nuts.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I doubt Opt will be banned immediately. It seems to be a pretty fair card, costed about right for its effect. I'd bet, however, that WotC is going to be keeping an eye on it in Modern, ready to pounce if someone DOES manage to break it. They do seem to be waiting a bit now, rahter than pre-emptively banning things. Whether they should wait a bit more and test is maybe up for discussion elsewhere, Dig Through Time was banned because it was likely to replace Treasure Cruise, not because it was proven to be a replacement.
Regardless, it's unlikely that we won't be able to play with this for at least a few months. Wizards likely knows all about the problems of Control in Modern and is seeing what they can get away with before Control swings to OP. The main problem with control is that you either have "enough," and then you can't lose, or "not enough" and you can't win. The balance between them is both very delicate and very prone to being shattered by the newest card interactions.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Cards are game pieces, and should be treated as such, easily replaceable.
Cards are not money, investments, or a retirement fund, and should never have been treated as such.
Wizards made a mistake caving to speculators once, and we still pay for that mistake 2 decades later.
"Entitled:" the entire ad hominem fallacy condensed into a single word. It doesn't strengthen your argument to attack motivations, it just makes you look like you don't understand the argument.
Well, if the whole pirate+dinosaur setting, plus vampire conquistadors,including mono-white Vampires, lest we forget, still seems ridiculous to me, I have to say the Opt reprint is very exciting news, it will see play in Standard and probably Modern too, what's not to like about a 1-mana instant cantrip that filters your draws. This reprint and Spell Pierce seem like a good idea.
Opt isn't even good in the formats that already could use it. Scry 2 is so much better than Scry 1 that Serum Visions is a common card in Cube, for instance, while Opt sits in the sidelines.
That said, Opt, Duress an Spell Pierce are the kinds of cards we need, and are pushing my hopes up for Standard for the first time since Khans.
Intuitions alone are not valid, nor intelligent regardless of whether they turn out to be correct.
If someone is so convinced, they should keep it quiet, test the card and figure out what's going to make it degenerate.
...
It drives me crazy how people will share their intuitions immediately, rather than asking themselves "why?" a few times and bringing something more useful/intelligent to the table.
Wow, great debate technique, going straight for the "Because your initial reaction is different than mine, you're unintelligent" angle - multiple times, even!
My reasoning (and I am capable of reasoning, thankyouverymuch, can you please try to keep the future responses on the topic of THE TOPIC and not insulting the intelligence of people who dare disagree with you?) is that:
a) They don't seem to like allowing too many 1-cost cantrips in Modern. As a result, I think they will pare the field by one. It might be Opt, it might be Serum Visions, it might even be Sleight of Hand, but I don't think they will want all of them to exist at once.
and
b) They've stated repeatedly they test and release cards almost entirely for standard and limited, and they let bans take care of things that ruffle older formats. This was most recently demonstrated with Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time. As such I don't believe they'd necessarily be adverse to banning Opt even fresh off its printing.
We obviously disagree, and I really don't expect to change your mind. But I do expect the decorum of you to accept that others can have different opinions than you do, actually have done the reasoning behind their opinion, and deserve better discussion then "You didn't think, you have no intelligence!", which was the nuts and bolts of your reaction above. Good day.
There's actually an argument in there that you are glossing-over. It was generally directed at comments that have been reactions where a ban is predicted without other substance, nor explanation. That is unintelligent and the people who waste space with those types of posts are probably unaware of this. Merely pointing something out is not an insult.
Second, what you omitted was highly relevant to your rebuttal and shows that you're talking past me, rather than being in discussion. You seem invested in an opinion, which is silly considering mtg is the topic, but you can't let that get in the way of understanding what others are saying: test Opt yourself and see if it actually is that good. Hell, you can get a free program to test in combo decks where you go-off. Are you trying to justify not testing it? Then make a point of actually saying so.
Gesturing to the R & D team's past statements is not substantiate a prediction because it still begs the obvious of question of what will necessitate the ban, which is why the part of my comment that you seem to ignore is what you should be replying to, since it is actually my opinion regarding Opt being banned that is your concern(?). Thus, we are led cull-circle; what's gonna break Opt or somehow necessitate its ban? There was something on the wotc site a while back about Modern becoming more of a consideration for new sets, so that's probably worth reading.
The nonsense about Opt being banned in Mmodern is ridiculous. Some just seem to be reacting with the prospect of a ban as the starting point for their thinking without then considering why it will be banned. All we're seeing is the first stage of the process. Intuitions alone are not valid, nor intelligent regardless of whether they turn out to be correct.
Indeed.
In fact, the silly levels of ban mania are all but a guarantee it won't get banned. It's pretty much never the cards that (before release) people worry about bans that actually end up getting banned. It's almost always the cards that were overlooked. For as format-dominating as they were, not that many people took Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time that seriously before their release, with fewer still thinking there was any chance of a ban. In contrast, there was a crazy uproar regarding Temporal Mastery and then the card was a total dud.
Given that this was just printed, RIP Serum Visions.
Super excited for Opt though! Also, I neither hate nor adore the Duress art, but I love its flavor text.
--Buck v Bell, 1927. This case, regarding the compulsory sterilization of inmates at mental institutions, has -- somehow -- never been overturned. Just a wee PSA for ya.
Selling some cards I don't want.
Generally less than tcg mid.
If someone is so convinced, they should keep it quiet, test the card and figure out what's going to make it degenerate.
For the matter of Opt, I actually played with it in various formats over the last seventeen years. It's a fine card, but its not that good and if it does anything broken, it will probably be giving too much redundancy to a deck. Assuming that, the next question begged is whether it will be that broken and if one of the cards that are part of the combo that it assembles won't get banned instead.
From there, we're led back to the question of what's going to make it ban-worthy. Personally, I don't think it will push any existing Modern deck over the top. It is nice for Storm, but it won't be that good. One of the biggest potential winners are Ux decks because its less clunky than Serum Visions and yields more opportunities for getting value out of snapcasters. In general, unless a deck needs more cantrips or ones that are instant speed, Opt is unlikely to replace Serum Visions.
It drives me crazy how people will share their intuitions immediately, rather than asking themselves "why?" a few times and bringing something more useful/intelligent to the table.
........................
Yea from my experience people are traditionally bad at judging cards. Theory crafting - I don't think opt will break anything. The decks that would often be "broken" by extra cantrips don't care about instant speed. Slight of Hand and serum visions all dig deeper.
I am most excited because this card solves alot of the clunkiness in current control builds. You want a good cantrip to smooth out early draws, but in modern the first few turns are critical. Tapping out for serum visions can set you way behind.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
Wow, great debate technique, going straight for the "Because your initial reaction is different than mine, you're unintelligent" angle - multiple times, even!
My reasoning (and I am capable of reasoning, thankyouverymuch, can you please try to keep the future responses on the topic of THE TOPIC and not insulting the intelligence of people who dare disagree with you?) is that:
a) They don't seem to like allowing too many 1-cost cantrips in Modern. As a result, I think they will pare the field by one. It might be Opt, it might be Serum Visions, it might even be Sleight of Hand, but I don't think they will want all of them to exist at once.
and
b) They've stated repeatedly they test and release cards almost entirely for standard and limited, and they let bans take care of things that ruffle older formats. This was most recently demonstrated with Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time. As such I don't believe they'd necessarily be adverse to banning Opt even fresh off its printing.
We obviously disagree, and I really don't expect to change your mind. But I do expect the decorum of you to accept that others can have different opinions than you do, actually have done the reasoning behind their opinion, and deserve better discussion then "You didn't think, you have no intelligence!", which was the nuts and bolts of your reaction above. Good day.
I don't think historically you can ever make the claim that "they don't like 1-mana cantrips in modern". With the exception of [card]Gitaxian Probe{/card] (which doesn't really count because it's free) all currently banned cantrips were banned near the start of modern to keep storm in check. Morever all of those banned cards are stronger than opt.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
Generally speaking, black decks can already handle creatures just fine with removal, which means the added flexibility is rarely worth the increase in CMC, so discarding noncreature cards is going to be the usual course of action even for Lay Bare the Heart. The ability to use the card on turn 1 or to only spend a single additional mana to pick off a removal or counter before playing a threat should not be underestimated by any means. There's a reason why nobody plays Distress in Modern.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Regardless, it's unlikely that we won't be able to play with this for at least a few months. Wizards likely knows all about the problems of Control in Modern and is seeing what they can get away with before Control swings to OP. The main problem with control is that you either have "enough," and then you can't lose, or "not enough" and you can't win. The balance between them is both very delicate and very prone to being shattered by the newest card interactions.
Cards are not money, investments, or a retirement fund, and should never have been treated as such.
Wizards made a mistake caving to speculators once, and we still pay for that mistake 2 decades later.
"Entitled:" the entire ad hominem fallacy condensed into a single word. It doesn't strengthen your argument to attack motivations, it just makes you look like you don't understand the argument.
That said, Opt, Duress an Spell Pierce are the kinds of cards we need, and are pushing my hopes up for Standard for the first time since Khans.
There's actually an argument in there that you are glossing-over. It was generally directed at comments that have been reactions where a ban is predicted without other substance, nor explanation. That is unintelligent and the people who waste space with those types of posts are probably unaware of this. Merely pointing something out is not an insult.
Second, what you omitted was highly relevant to your rebuttal and shows that you're talking past me, rather than being in discussion. You seem invested in an opinion, which is silly considering mtg is the topic, but you can't let that get in the way of understanding what others are saying: test Opt yourself and see if it actually is that good. Hell, you can get a free program to test in combo decks where you go-off. Are you trying to justify not testing it? Then make a point of actually saying so.
Gesturing to the R & D team's past statements is not substantiate a prediction because it still begs the obvious of question of what will necessitate the ban, which is why the part of my comment that you seem to ignore is what you should be replying to, since it is actually my opinion regarding Opt being banned that is your concern(?). Thus, we are led cull-circle; what's gonna break Opt or somehow necessitate its ban? There was something on the wotc site a while back about Modern becoming more of a consideration for new sets, so that's probably worth reading.
In fact, the silly levels of ban mania are all but a guarantee it won't get banned. It's pretty much never the cards that (before release) people worry about bans that actually end up getting banned. It's almost always the cards that were overlooked. For as format-dominating as they were, not that many people took Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time that seriously before their release, with fewer still thinking there was any chance of a ban. In contrast, there was a crazy uproar regarding Temporal Mastery and then the card was a total dud.