I understand wanting to fix the manabase of the Dragon deck, but in my opinion Wizards missed the best opportunity to reprint 5 classic Dragon-themed cards, the 5 Lair lands from Planeshift. We could've used these with new borders/templating, as well as one or 2 more of the legends from the set too.
Also, 4 tribal decks, and not one single Tribal supertype card........ but we get a phasing card???
The lair lands lead to unkeepable hands when you run too many. I'm sure with all 5 you'd have several hands you'd have to throw back because all your lands were lairs.
The one thing consistent with Wizards printings in precons is that they always shy away from anything other than bulk lands. It's insanely difficult to push them to print anything useful and they also really dislike reprinting any cards that are from sets close to the reserved list. There are cards like Meteor Crater and Riftstone Portal that they could easily reprint.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
The one thing consistent with Wizards printings in precons is that they always shy away from anything other than bulk lands. It's insanely difficult to push them to print anything useful and they also really dislike reprinting any cards that are from sets close to the reserved list. There are cards like Meteor Crater and Riftstone Portal that they could easily reprint.
i remember when we got reprints like high market which was pushing $15 at the time, but **** it, lets jam another temple of the false god into these things.
the more i see of these lists... they were billed as tribal, and they don't really push that, at all. they have some cards that have the same creature type, and thats really it. all of the tribal cards in need of reprints weren't bothered with, the tribal agenda was barely touched.
so not only did we get decks that were being market to us as tribal that barely deliver, we also sacrificed a 5th deck to do it, and on top of those things we got mediocre unnecessary reprints.
was anyone hurting for anything reprinted here, at all? do any of these reprints really push what it is to be a tribal deck at all?
this product sucks and is nothing but missed opportunities.
Why would they pick Meteor Crater or Riftstone Portal, though? Precons almost never get their lands into their graveyard and I don't see why Crater is as good as Reflecting Pool or Exotic Orchard unless you reanimated something.
Complaining about these decklists is a bit insane IMHO. If there's something they don't need to push in the precons it's the manabase, because we'll all modify it in an eyeblink in any case; apart from that, the decks are full of high-profile reprints that perfectly fit the theme. I could see a "competitive" 5C Ur-Dragon list remaining at least 40-50% identical, which is insane if you go back and look at the majority of the precons in the past!
It's rather appropriate. What if that person can't upgrade the mana base? What if it's their first foray into Commander or Magic? Having a mana base that works better right out of the box is a good thing. Yes, these won't get a shock and fetch in each, although every so often they should, but you gotta do a bit more on occasion. The dragon deck does need a few better options and it wouldn't kill them to put in checklands or something better that isn't $10+ with each card. C16 decks had rather good mana bases, but this time it's lacking, not to a terrible degree but it is there.
The lair lands lead to unkeepable hands when you run too many. I'm sure with all 5 you'd have several hands you'd have to throw back because all your lands were lairs.
With only 5 out of 36 lands bouncing a land back to my hand, I would take that risk if the flavour was there for this deck. At least the Lair lands don't enter tapped. Keep the 5 wedge tri-lands, and replace the 5 allied tri-lands, and as a side bonus they could replenish the counters on the vivid lands if need be.
Why would they pick Meteor Crater or Riftstone Portal, though? Precons almost never get their lands into their graveyard and I don't see why Crater is as good as Reflecting Pool or Exotic Orchard unless you reanimated something.
They are examples of good lands that should be reprinted if a strategy can support them. They aren't intended as being "These work in the current decks." For the current bunch pain lands, tainted lands, and the older filter lands would have worked fine. Instead they printed a ton of very generic garbage like Elfhame palace.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
The cats deck has no reason not to have aura shards, that new Lenin is a poor excuse and could have been something better.
It being equipment is also trash. Gw are far more enchantment colors and I don't think anything before this deck in green cards about equipment at all. Wr are equipment colors, they should have done enchantment.
Last of my biggest complaints is the lack of actual cats. Almost all of the cats in this deck are leonin, and except arahbo, none of the new cats aren't Lenin.
So I'm just going to buy the four cards I want out of the deck and maybe a gramps markov and be done with this disappointing shambles.
Why would cat be enchantment there is only a gatherer search give only 1 cat that care about enchantment Ajani's Chosen compare to all the cats about equipement
Last of my biggest complaints is the lack of actual cats. Almost all of the cats in this deck are leonin, and except arahbo, none of the new cats aren't Lenin.
I have zero plans to pick up the deck but I must admit, I noticed this too.
I mean, this token seems inexcusably lazy.
The worst of the decks is probably dragons. Whoever designed and put the deck together did a horrific job with the mana base.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Last of my biggest complaints is the lack of actual cats. Almost all of the cats in this deck are leonin, and except arahbo, none of the new cats aren't Lenin.
I have zero plans to pick up the deck but I must admit, I noticed this too.
I mean, this token seems inexcusably lazy.
it does make me mad that they used that cat token
This one is far, far superior and less plane specific. I was really hoping to get more copies of this one. I don't mind the leonin thing - I enjoy that aspect of the magic multiverse creatures. For the most part, I'll be taking out the Mirrodin leonin - I'm not really into the robokitties. Nonetheless, the deck itself has enough goodies that I will enjoy replacing those robokitties with felidars, springing tigers, regal caracals, fleetfoot panthers and pride sovereigns. Honestly, not a whole lot of earth-plane-types of cats are terribly strong. With a good amount of the new strong ones occurring in Amonkhet, I would've been bummed to get them in this pre-con.
The cats deck has no reason not to have aura shards, that new Lenin is a poor excuse and could have been something better.
I cannot believe how valuable Aura Shards has gotten!
A couple of years ago I ordered a $10 card from eBay,
and an Aura Shards was used to pad the packaging as some sellers do.
I'm pretty sure I threw it away or turned it into a proxy, smh
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
The worst of the decks is probably dragons. Whoever designed and put the deck together did a horrific job with the mana base.
The dragons would be much more buyable if the mana base was not so horrendous
And as usual are good old professor got the decks earlier and he confirmed "if you get e dragon deck you need to repair the mana base immensely."
I don't think anyone even needed a reviewer to see how bad the mana is. The lack of any kind of fetch land along with the over-use of Vivids, with no reflecting pool, City of Brass, or mana confluence just leaves a complete lack of words. The only conclusion I have is that some corporate suit walked into a room, set a cap on the deck values and then gave the developers a list of cards they are reprinting in the next masters sets, then forced them to leave out good fixing to drive sales later.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
The worst of the decks is probably dragons. Whoever designed and put the deck together did a horrific job with the mana base.
The dragons would be much more buyable if the mana base was not so horrendous
And as usual are good old professor got the decks earlier and he confirmed "if you get e dragon deck you need to repair the mana base immensely."
I don't think anyone even needed a reviewer to see how bad the mana is. The lack of any kind of fetch land along with the over-use of Vivids, with no reflecting pool, City of Brass, or mana confluence just leaves a complete lack of words. The only conclusion I have is that some corporate suit walked into a room, set a cap on the deck values and then gave the developers a list of cards they are reprinting in the next masters sets, then forced them to leave out good fixing to drive sales later.
Best thing I can think of too
Atleast the exspensive dragons avoided the hype stock.
Yeah, the new guy with the cage counters is going to be interesting as far as market prices go on cards. He turns a lot of cards that have disadvantages to playing them outright into EDH Gold. Dralnu, Lich Lord, Shauku, Endbringer, are two that come to mind. The trouble is that Mairsil isn't well supported in the wizards deck and requires a lot of building around to get him working, but wow does he do some serious work.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Why would cat be enchantment there is only a gatherer search give only 1 cat that care about enchantment Ajani's Chosen compare to all the cats about equipement
And all of those cats are mono white, but the color identity of selesnya cares more about enchantments. If they wanted an equipment subtheme, it should have been mono white or boros, which are the color identities that care about equipment.
Why would cat be enchantment there is only a gatherer search give only 1 cat that care about enchantment Ajani's Chosen compare to all the cats about equipement
And all of those cats are mono white, but the color identity of selesnya cares more about enchantments. If they wanted an equipment subtheme, it should have been mono white or boros, which are the color identities that care about equipment.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Why would cat be enchantment there is only a gatherer search give only 1 cat that care about enchantment Ajani's Chosen compare to all the cats about equipement
And all of those cats are mono white, but the color identity of selesnya cares more about enchantments. If they wanted an equipment subtheme, it should have been mono white or boros, which are the color identities that care about equipment.
In what world is Godo better than Nazhan? Godo's effect is slightly more powerful, but the fact that Nazhan bypasses it with his hammer basically puts him in front. Godo usuall would fetch batterskull, a fine choice, that also works with Nazhan, though he doesn't make the germ attack twice. Now, if this was even a close contest, Nazhan wins solely by his colors. GW is a muuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuch stronger combination than monored if your general costs SIX mana (like Godo and Nazhan).
I also find it complicated to compare Nazhan and Sigarda, but I'm willing to bet Nazhan is better.
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.
Would you like to read Commander stories? Check my latest stories, coming from Lorwyn and Innistrad: Ghoulcaller Gisa and Doran, The Siege Tower! If you like my writing, ask me to write something for your commander as well!
Also, 4 tribal decks, and not one single Tribal supertype card........ but we get a phasing card???
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
i remember when we got reprints like high market which was pushing $15 at the time, but **** it, lets jam another temple of the false god into these things.
the more i see of these lists... they were billed as tribal, and they don't really push that, at all. they have some cards that have the same creature type, and thats really it. all of the tribal cards in need of reprints weren't bothered with, the tribal agenda was barely touched.
so not only did we get decks that were being market to us as tribal that barely deliver, we also sacrificed a 5th deck to do it, and on top of those things we got mediocre unnecessary reprints.
was anyone hurting for anything reprinted here, at all? do any of these reprints really push what it is to be a tribal deck at all?
this product sucks and is nothing but missed opportunities.
It's rather appropriate. What if that person can't upgrade the mana base? What if it's their first foray into Commander or Magic? Having a mana base that works better right out of the box is a good thing. Yes, these won't get a shock and fetch in each, although every so often they should, but you gotta do a bit more on occasion. The dragon deck does need a few better options and it wouldn't kill them to put in checklands or something better that isn't $10+ with each card. C16 decks had rather good mana bases, but this time it's lacking, not to a terrible degree but it is there.
With only 5 out of 36 lands bouncing a land back to my hand, I would take that risk if the flavour was there for this deck. At least the Lair lands don't enter tapped. Keep the 5 wedge tri-lands, and replace the 5 allied tri-lands, and as a side bonus they could replenish the counters on the vivid lands if need be.
They are examples of good lands that should be reprinted if a strategy can support them. They aren't intended as being "These work in the current decks." For the current bunch pain lands, tainted lands, and the older filter lands would have worked fine. Instead they printed a ton of very generic garbage like Elfhame palace.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
R&D vocally dislikes Tribal and have no plans to do anymore. I assume this extends to reprinting them as well.
I miss it too. (I definitely didn't miss Phasing though. Ugh.)
Fully-powered 600-Card "Dream Cube" https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/dreamcube
450-Card "Artificer's Cube" https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/artificer
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Cats $124.64
Vampires $132.42
Dragons $124.78
Wizards $152.92
Well well well... the tables have turned wizards was the least valuable now it's the most valuable
It being equipment is also trash. Gw are far more enchantment colors and I don't think anything before this deck in green cards about equipment at all. Wr are equipment colors, they should have done enchantment.
Last of my biggest complaints is the lack of actual cats. Almost all of the cats in this deck are leonin, and except arahbo, none of the new cats aren't Lenin.
So I'm just going to buy the four cards I want out of the deck and maybe a gramps markov and be done with this disappointing shambles.
I have zero plans to pick up the deck but I must admit, I noticed this too.
I mean, this token seems inexcusably lazy.
Fully-powered 600-Card "Dream Cube" https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/dreamcube
450-Card "Artificer's Cube" https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/artificer
Cubing in Indianapolis...send me a PM!!
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
The dragons would be much more buyable if the mana base was not so horrendous
And as usual are good old professor got the decks earlier and he confirmed "if you get e dragon deck you need to repair the mana base immensely."
it does make me mad that they used that cat token
This one is far, far superior and less plane specific. I was really hoping to get more copies of this one. I don't mind the leonin thing - I enjoy that aspect of the magic multiverse creatures. For the most part, I'll be taking out the Mirrodin leonin - I'm not really into the robokitties. Nonetheless, the deck itself has enough goodies that I will enjoy replacing those robokitties with felidars, springing tigers, regal caracals, fleetfoot panthers and pride sovereigns. Honestly, not a whole lot of earth-plane-types of cats are terribly strong. With a good amount of the new strong ones occurring in Amonkhet, I would've been bummed to get them in this pre-con.
I cannot believe how valuable Aura Shards has gotten!
A couple of years ago I ordered a $10 card from eBay,
and an Aura Shards was used to pad the packaging as some sellers do.
I'm pretty sure I threw it away or turned it into a proxy, smh
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
I don't think anyone even needed a reviewer to see how bad the mana is. The lack of any kind of fetch land along with the over-use of Vivids, with no reflecting pool, City of Brass, or mana confluence just leaves a complete lack of words. The only conclusion I have is that some corporate suit walked into a room, set a cap on the deck values and then gave the developers a list of cards they are reprinting in the next masters sets, then forced them to leave out good fixing to drive sales later.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Best thing I can think of too
Atleast the exspensive dragons avoided the hype stock.
balefire dragon, dragon broodmother and karrthus, Tyrant of jund none of their prices got touched by the deck list reveals.
Best reason I can think of is all 3 are almost locks for iconic masters.
Oh one more thing for everybody
Want to repair the decks? Well ladies and gentleman commander 2017 cards on EDHREC is now open.
And 7 out of 11 decks of O-kagachi is spirit tribal so that means everyone might be pointing their finger at spirit tribal with O-kagachi.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
And all of those cats are mono white, but the color identity of selesnya cares more about enchantments. If they wanted an equipment subtheme, it should have been mono white or boros, which are the color identities that care about equipment.
The standout commander in the Cats deck is Mirri, Weatherlight Duelist. Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith and his Hammer of Nazahn are good, but he's outdone by Godo, Bandit Warlord and Sigarda, Host of Herons is still a better voltron commander in those colors. In fact, I'd say I like the hammer more than the namesake maker of said hammer.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I also find it complicated to compare Nazhan and Sigarda, but I'm willing to bet Nazhan is better.
Read my other stories as well (some ongoing):
Reaper King (a horror story), Kaalia of the Vast (an origin story), Sequels for Innistrad (Alternative sequels for Inn), Grey Areas (Odric's fanfic), Royal Succession (goblins),The Tracker's Message (eldrazi on Innistrad) and Ugin and his Eye (the end of OGW).