She isn't getting banned. I mean, Breya isn't banned and she's completely bonkers. This will be a strong, powerful addition to the format that power gamers will abuse and the rest of the people will do goofy things with. I'm 100% fine with this as I want the cats and dragons myself, so enjoy the wizards deck, fellow Commander players.
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Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
She isn't getting banned. I mean, Breya isn't banned and she's completely bonkers. This will be a strong, powerful addition to the format that power gamers will abuse and the rest of the people will do goofy things with. I'm 100% fine with this as I want the cats and dragons myself, so enjoy the wizards deck, fellow Commander players.
Breya is really only especially powerful if you build specific combos. You've got to want to break her. Otherwise she's just good, not great.
This card is powerful with just the normal stuff you'd want to include anyway without trying to break anything. Just playing wizards with etbs, like the most obvious thing to do with her.
And at least Breya can, y'know, DIE.
I would not be surprised at all if this gets banned.
She isn't getting banned. I mean, Breya isn't banned and she's completely bonkers. This will be a strong, powerful addition to the format that power gamers will abuse and the rest of the people will do goofy things with. I'm 100% fine with this as I want the cats and dragons myself, so enjoy the wizards deck, fellow Commander players.
Breya is really only especially powerful if you build specific combos. You've got to want to break her. Otherwise she's just good, not great.
This card is powerful with just the normal stuff you'd want to include anyway without trying to break anything. Just playing wizards with etbs, like the most obvious thing to do with her.
And at least Breya can, y'know, DIE.
I would not be surprised at all if this gets banned.
I've seen a Breya deck with over 69 infinite combos try telling me she's not broken. I don't care if she can die lol it's so hard to disrupt the combos
Sorry, I just don't see it. Great ability but terrible creature type to attach it to. I don't really see any ETB wizards that make me want build a deck around this. I suppose it is Grixis so maybe a sacrifice theme would be worth exploring. Ugh, sometimes I feel WotC goes out of their way to give us the worst versions of the best concepts
Why do some of us have a habit of underestimating cards like this until people actually build decks with them?
Also I agree that Eminence (I'd extend it to command zone abilities as a whole) might not have been the best idea.
Am I the only one hoping for a Riptide Laboratory reprint? Also, here's hoping we see Patron Wizard in the 99 along with some of the other major hits on the wizard tribal list.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Play the Necromancer, getting back whatever (doesn't matter). Before Inalla's trigger resolves, sac Necromancer for 2 mana. Pay the 1, make your token Necromancer, bring back the original Necromancer, triggering it and the Inalla ability. You are now back where you started, except you have 1 extra mana plus a hasty lifelink vampire wizard token. Make infinite mana and infinite haste tokens.
Also works with Phyrexian Altar which works out slightly better as it wins with the general itself as you can first make infinite mana, cast your general, then make infinite tokens and deal 7 to everyone which ignores combat effects (Ghostly Prison etc.).
EDIT: Oh woops, Kaltovei already mentioned that. Still, I have to stress how completely ridiculous this card is and how many busted interactions it has. I've never joined the outcries of people calling for generals like Breya or Leovold to be banned, but this general just seems egregious.
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I said the same thing about Felidar Guardian then they came out and said they just goofed.
Don't get me wrong I don't think she'll get the hammer either but its hard to trust that they're testing these combos for almost every card ever printed when they don't even catch a combo that exiats within a single block.
I've already attempted ETB wizards before and it failed pretty miserably. Wizards are just much better at other tasks, such as countering spells. Also, isn't Glen Elendra Archmage work with the new wizard commander? When she persists we could pay 1 to duplicate her. That and Sage of Fables seems really good.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I said the same thing about Felidar Guardian then they came out and said they just goofed.
Don't get me wrong I don't think she'll get the hammer either but its hard to trust that they're testing these combos for almost every card ever printed when they don't even catch a combo that exiats within a single block.
True but that's standard
Commander has far more nightmaric tricks than what he's done.
He'll probably end up like Niv Mizzet or Narset: Fun and powerful to build around, but with so many people building broken-strong cutthroat decks he'll immediately get a reputation that gets him hated out regardless of the actual deck contents.
Commander has far more nightmaric tricks than what he's done.
But that's exactly my point. If they can miss something like copy cat that's in a card pool as small as standard they can't possibly hit every broken interaction feasible in commander. Its just not reasonable.
I've already attempted ETB wizards before and it failed pretty miserably. Wizards are just much better at other tasks, such as countering spells. Also, isn't Glen Elendra Archmage work with the new wizard commander? When she persists we could pay 1 to duplicate her. That and Sage of Fables seems really good.
I've already attempted ETB wizards before and it failed pretty miserably. Wizards are just much better at other tasks, such as countering spells. Also, isn't Glen Elendra Archmage work with the new wizard commander? When she persists we could pay 1 to duplicate her. That and Sage of Fables seems really good.
I'm gonna be frank here. Most of these combos people are spotting out are not good. They're extremely clunky, easy to disrupt and dependdant on multiple cards (usually expensive cards).
Just take one of your examples: puppeteer clique, a 5 mana spell. Sage of Fables/Metallic Mimic on board, a sacoutlet on board. Sure. That is a combo without the need for Inalla. If this combo isn't good on its own, and to make it good you need the sac outlet to be specifically a phyrexian altar or ashnod's altar, it is just... clunky as hell.
The best infinite combo mentioned here so far was the new vampire guy with a phyrexian/ashnod altar. That's two combo pieces, one of which does almost nothing until you're going off. It can be disrupted with exile graveyard effect, artifact hate, etc. Sure, you can try and stop it with a counterspell, let's say. How many are you playing if you're stuffing the deck with combo pieces? And to even start your combo you need 5 mana, that's not exactly the cheapest of combos.
Now, the best neat interaction mentioned was with venser. 5 mana (Again) to softlock your opponent. You can bounce spells back to his hand, or permanents. If he plays two spells, boom, out of the lock for that turn. If you have multiple opponents, this isn't even half as great.
I mean, don't get me wrong. The card is interesting, but you have a lot of hoops to jump through to make it happen. It reminds of Jeleva or Marchesa, the Black Rose. Cards with powerful effects that require a combination of lots of things going right for they to do their thing. I just can't understand how anyone thinks this is ban-worthy. To me, it doesn't even come close to it. It is just neat, and I wouldn't even call it tier 1.
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He'll probably end up like Niv Mizzet or Narset: Fun and powerful to build around, but with so many people building broken-strong cutthroat decks he'll immediately get a reputation that gets him hated out regardless of the actual deck contents.
He? Are you talking about Inalla? Yes, the card itself is gender-less, but the figure depicted in its art isn't (as far as we know anyway).
Expect her to leave the format even faster than Leovold did, people.
Wizards decides to print a decent card.
Players break the card by adding literally the most logical additions to the deck.
Wizards bans the card(s).
Wizards employees go home and fall asleep after crying for an hour.
Repeat indefinitely.
Wizards doesn't control what cards are banned in Commander. There is an independent Rules Committee that governs the ban list and has been doing so since long before it was an official format sanctioned by WotC.
Expect her to leave the format even faster than Leovold did, people.
Wizards decides to print a decent card.
Players break the card by adding literally the most logical additions to the deck.
Wizards bans the card(s).
Wizards employees go home and fall asleep after crying for an hour.
Repeat indefinitely.
Wizards doesn't control what cards are banned in Commander. There is an independent Rules Committee that governs the ban list and has been doing so since long before it was an official format sanctioned by WotC.
I doubt this card is getting banned too. It has a lot of infinite combos but that hardly makes it the most degenerate thing in competitive commander games.
She isn't getting banned. I mean, Breya isn't banned and she's completely bonkers. This will be a strong, powerful addition to the format that power gamers will abuse and the rest of the people will do goofy things with. I'm 100% fine with this as I want the cats and dragons myself, so enjoy the wizards deck, fellow Commander players.
The community can never have enough players like you.
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The secret to enjoyable Commander games is not winning first, but losing last.
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
Linessa, Zephyr Mage would also be worth including. You can cast it, make a copy, keep the copy and sacrifice the original due to the legend rule and then start pitching the original to the token's grandeur ability. Getting creatures back from the grave should not be that hard when running B.
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The secret to enjoyable Commander games is not winning first, but losing last.
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
Cast Necromancer, trigger Inalla, trigger Necromancer, sacrifice Necromancer to Altar to make (2), resolve Necromancer trigger, target Necromancer in the yard to bring it back, trigger Inalla, trigger Necromancer, sacrifice Necromancer to Altar to make (2)...............
Have an arbitrarily large amount of mana and Inalla triggers on the stack, create an arbitrarily large amount of 3/2 haste creatures.
Not 100% sure if the Necromancer can return itself back to play, if I sacrifice him in response to his trigger, but I can, right?
Sorry if someone else already posted this obvious synergy.
Triggers, just like spells, require you to announce the target when the trigger goes on the stack.
You can never target the Bloodline Necromancer with its own ability, since its still on the battlefield when the ability goes on the stack.
What you can do is this:
1. Bloodline Necromancer enters the battlefield, put its trigger on the stack to return whatever (or nothing).
2. sacrifice Bloodline Necromancer to Ashnod's Altar
3. Inalla, Archmage Ritualist's triggered ability resolves. Pay the cost. Put the token into play. Target your dead Bloodline Necromancer with its trigger.
4. return to 1.
So the combo works, but not quite like you explained.
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Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
This card is powerful with just the normal stuff you'd want to include anyway without trying to break anything. Just playing wizards with etbs, like the most obvious thing to do with her.
And at least Breya can, y'know, DIE.
I would not be surprised at all if this gets banned.
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Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
I've seen a Breya deck with over 69 infinite combos try telling me she's not broken. I don't care if she can die lol it's so hard to disrupt the combos
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Why do some of us have a habit of underestimating cards like this until people actually build decks with them?
Also I agree that Eminence (I'd extend it to command zone abilities as a whole) might not have been the best idea.
Is Cloudstone Curio nuts here? I feel like its nuts here.
Play your wizard, bounce a wizard, create your copy, bounce a wizard, play a wizard...etc, etc.
Just add Infinite Mana (tm) and enjoy!
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I have high hopes for Inalla in terms of viability, but I'm not sure where she stands relative to Breya.
Play the Necromancer, getting back whatever (doesn't matter). Before Inalla's trigger resolves, sac Necromancer for 2 mana. Pay the 1, make your token Necromancer, bring back the original Necromancer, triggering it and the Inalla ability. You are now back where you started, except you have 1 extra mana plus a hasty lifelink vampire wizard token. Make infinite mana and infinite haste tokens.
Also works with Phyrexian Altar which works out slightly better as it wins with the general itself as you can first make infinite mana, cast your general, then make infinite tokens and deal 7 to everyone which ignores combat effects (Ghostly Prison etc.).
Can also work with a 0 mana sac outlet and some other way of generating mana via death (Thornbite Staff/Faces of the Past with a Sea Scryer) or ETB (Mana Echoes).
EDIT: Oh woops, Kaltovei already mentioned that. Still, I have to stress how completely ridiculous this card is and how many busted interactions it has. I've never joined the outcries of people calling for generals like Breya or Leovold to be banned, but this general just seems egregious.
Leovold directly combos with roughly a dozen cards which completely shut all opponents down.
Inalla has some good interactions,
but nothing as insane as Leovold + Time Spiral
Breya is a much better comparison than Leovold, IMO.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
First up I'm sure wizards tested this before making it.
Second there are only 61 choices with ETB triggers
These are the only good ones.
And quite a bit are on the exspensive mana cost side.
Don't get me wrong I don't think she'll get the hammer either but its hard to trust that they're testing these combos for almost every card ever printed when they don't even catch a combo that exiats within a single block.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
True but that's standard
Commander has far more nightmaric tricks than what he's done.
But that's exactly my point. If they can miss something like copy cat that's in a card pool as small as standard they can't possibly hit every broken interaction feasible in commander. Its just not reasonable.
Just take one of your examples: puppeteer clique, a 5 mana spell. Sage of Fables/Metallic Mimic on board, a sacoutlet on board. Sure. That is a combo without the need for Inalla. If this combo isn't good on its own, and to make it good you need the sac outlet to be specifically a phyrexian altar or ashnod's altar, it is just... clunky as hell.
The best infinite combo mentioned here so far was the new vampire guy with a phyrexian/ashnod altar. That's two combo pieces, one of which does almost nothing until you're going off. It can be disrupted with exile graveyard effect, artifact hate, etc. Sure, you can try and stop it with a counterspell, let's say. How many are you playing if you're stuffing the deck with combo pieces? And to even start your combo you need 5 mana, that's not exactly the cheapest of combos.
Now, the best neat interaction mentioned was with venser. 5 mana (Again) to softlock your opponent. You can bounce spells back to his hand, or permanents. If he plays two spells, boom, out of the lock for that turn. If you have multiple opponents, this isn't even half as great.
I mean, don't get me wrong. The card is interesting, but you have a lot of hoops to jump through to make it happen. It reminds of Jeleva or Marchesa, the Black Rose. Cards with powerful effects that require a combination of lots of things going right for they to do their thing. I just can't understand how anyone thinks this is ban-worthy. To me, it doesn't even come close to it. It is just neat, and I wouldn't even call it tier 1.
Read my other stories as well (some ongoing):
Reaper King (a horror story), Kaalia of the Vast (an origin story), Sequels for Innistrad (Alternative sequels for Inn), Grey Areas (Odric's fanfic), Royal Succession (goblins),The Tracker's Message (eldrazi on Innistrad) and Ugin and his Eye (the end of OGW).
He? Are you talking about Inalla? Yes, the card itself is gender-less, but the figure depicted in its art isn't (as far as we know anyway).
Wizards doesn't control what cards are banned in Commander. There is an independent Rules Committee that governs the ban list and has been doing so since long before it was an official format sanctioned by WotC.
I doubt this card is getting banned too. It has a lot of infinite combos but that hardly makes it the most degenerate thing in competitive commander games.
The community can never have enough players like you.
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
Triggers, just like spells, require you to announce the target when the trigger goes on the stack.
You can never target the Bloodline Necromancer with its own ability, since its still on the battlefield when the ability goes on the stack.
What you can do is this:
1. Bloodline Necromancer enters the battlefield, put its trigger on the stack to return whatever (or nothing).
2. sacrifice Bloodline Necromancer to Ashnod's Altar
3. Inalla, Archmage Ritualist's triggered ability resolves. Pay the cost. Put the token into play. Target your dead Bloodline Necromancer with its trigger.
4. return to 1.
So the combo works, but not quite like you explained.