Basically today's spoilers mean that we can expect non-tribal commmanders out of the other decks, which greatly widens the demographics that the new cards can appeal to.
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
I think it's less about green but more about Selesnya (WG) mentality, where one benefits the community as a whole, his passive helps his fellows, and his hammer helps them arm. Nezhan can be mono white, but being WG or WR makes sense also makes sense, this just happen to be a WG cat deck.
Basically today's spoilers mean that we can expect non-tribal commmanders out of the other decks, which greatly widens the demographics that the new cards can appeal to.
To be fair, we kinda already knew that from the dragon deck leaks. While the Ur-Dragon is clearly a tribal commander, O-Kagachi and Ramos are not. And the two supporting small commanders (Taigam and Wasitora) are semi-tribal as in they'll work very well with tribal strategies but they can go their own way too. I'd expect such a pattern to follow throughout all four decks.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Basically today's spoilers mean that we can expect non-tribal commmanders out of the other decks, which greatly widens the demographics that the new cards can appeal to.
To be fair, we kinda already knew that from the dragon deck leaks. While the Ur-Dragon is clearly a tribal commander, O-Kagachi and Ramos are not. And the two supporting small commanders (Taigam and Wasitora) are semi-tribal as in they'll work very well with tribal strategies but they can go their own way too. I'd expect such a pattern to follow throughout all four decks.
I've been thinking this for awhile, one commander would be tribal based, one would be splashy and the third would be build around me.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I like Nazahn, even if his hammer doesn't seem quite as good as Darksteel Plate, which at least avoids artifact removal (other than things like Into the Core, of course). And the obvious comparison on his second ability is to Gerrard Capashen (no doubt better) and Cho-Arrim Bruiser (a wash, there's a hoop, and you only tap one, but all creatures get the ability).
But...why is he green? Nothing about this guy is green. His artifact theme is actually anti-green.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
The built-in combo is fine and much easier to assemble when Nazahn is your Commander, but in the general vacuum of equipment-matters, the combination of all other cards (Stoneforge Mystic, Puresteel Paladin, Stonehewer Giant, Godo, Bandit Warlord, Leonin Shikari and so on...) would make Nazahn pale in comparison. He definitely feels like he's one of those cards better off as a Commander of his own (equipment-themed) deck than as a 99 in another equipment-themed deck (doesn't help most of those probably are RW and without G).
As for the confusion over the G, I'm very tempted to just say it's Commander Tradition to celebrate MaRo's lack of attention by having G break the color pie (By now it doesn't happen every year, but overall when it does its usually always G that does it).
I agree that this card could be just white, but just because mechanically a card could he one color doesn't mean that it has to be if it at least includes that color. It's literally made for a commander deck as a possible commander to use in the pre-con, but I'm sure they made him have green traits story-wise for anyone who would complain. Plenty of multicolored cards could just be one of their colors, but as someone who mainly plays commander they can tack on as many colors as they want on legends that seem fun.
Agree with the flavor/mechanic fail. It looks like they merged the W equipment matter cards of Leonin and Bant Leonin, and only WG part of Bant. Wish they made it Naya Cats instead, then RW equipment theme will make more sense.
Perhaps with Vampires and Wizards ther has to be a Green representaion in this commander release, so WG cats it is.
Anyway it is a great card, but there are not a lot of WG equipment matters cards. In the end I want to get this deck and incorporate parts of it in my artifact Cube.
I assume the green allows him to be bigger than he otherwise would be. Plus, green ramp actually compliments Equipment quite well. Color pairs aren't just about overlaps, you know. Now we have a GW Voltron card that isn't just another Aura magnet.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Basically today's spoilers mean that we can expect non-tribal commmanders out of the other decks, which greatly widens the demographics that the new cards can appeal to.
Pretty expected for me to be honest, considering they've been doing that with Commander products for a long time now.
I assume the green allows him to be bigger than he otherwise would be. Plus, green ramp actually compliments Equipment quite well. Color pairs aren't just about overlaps, you know. Now we have a GW Voltron card that isn't just another Aura magnet.
He takes away from WR's part of the color pie though, which isn't a good thing imo. That color pair is severely limited in EDH already, and I don't like that they are giving a strong equipment commander to a "better color", essentially.
Although I agree that he could easily be just mono white, I'm very happy he is not.
If you built a GW deck with an equipment subtheme, there should be cards in both colors supporting that theme imo.
The new Mirri does a fine job of bringing green cats and equipment together without explicitly caring artifacts in a color that usually doesn't care about artifacts at all. "X support" doesn't have to mean X being mentioned on the card somewhere.
I assume the green allows him to be bigger than he otherwise would be. Plus, green ramp actually compliments Equipment quite well. Color pairs aren't just about overlaps, you know. Now we have a GW Voltron card that isn't just another Aura magnet.
He takes away from WR's part of the color pie though, which isn't a good thing imo. That color pair is severely limited in EDH already, and I don't like that they are giving a strong equipment commander to a "better color", essentially.[/card]
This doesn't take away anything from white/red just like Meddling Mage didn't take away from future designs like Nevermore. As i said above this just seems grandfathered in since the before this people played with Kemba and Raksha for cat tribal and now they can add in the green cat support and use a commander that already fits in the deck if they want.
Although I agree that he could easily be just mono white, I'm very happy he is not.
If you built a GW deck with an equipment subtheme, there should be cards in both colors supporting that theme imo.
The new Mirri does a fine job of bringing green cats and equipment together without explicitly caring artifacts in a color that usually doesn't care about artifacts at all. "X support" doesn't have to mean X being mentioned on the card somewhere.[/quote]
Mirri isn't an equipment commander and from complains from people about cards like Ulrich, people want commander that are straight up the theme of what they want to play. We also had a whole block showing that green can like artifact depending on how natural they view them so green can in some cases like artifacts.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I assume the green allows him to be bigger than he otherwise would be. Plus, green ramp actually compliments Equipment quite well. Color pairs aren't just about overlaps, you know. Now we have a GW Voltron card that isn't just another Aura magnet.
I don't think of him as "overlap". I would be fine, if he had something indicating he was green like trample or vigilance or "3GG: CARDNAME gets +X/+Y until end of turn, where X is its power and Y is its toughness. Activate this ability only once each turn." Oh, that last ability would be awesome on a Voltron commander. Or the original daunt ability, also with a lot of Voltron potential. Alternately, he could have an ability that combines elements of both colors but feels like one ability the way Drogskol Reaver's card draw feels WU. Synergy isn't necessary, but it could also feel like one ability. Like "Put three +1/+1 counters on target creature you control and one +1/+1 counter on each other creature you control." (while not really a Voltron ability) feels like one GW ability, and Lightning Helix feels like one RW ability.
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
To be honest, I don't like Equipment or Equip costs. And there's so much Artifact hate as it is already and much of it is easy to cast and copy. Green is supposed to HATE artifacts and love creatures, but there are more and more Green-influenced artifacts popping up, which is irritating to say the least.
Yeah, GW is about community. I like that aspect of it - I've got a GW Innistrad humans deck that I love to play with. But he's more White than anything else, with Green tacked on because he's got fur.
My god, people are so mad about the fact that he is green that it just amazes me. Commander products are especially fond of breaking the color pie. Remember Chaos Warp? Hornet Queen? Song of the Dryads? It is obvious that this card is green so he can be one of the main generals of the precon. It is a pragmatic reason, then if you want you can justify with selesnya caring about the community, etc.
Anyway, just enjoy the card! He is a thousaaand times better being GW than if he was monowhite. It gives him access to maaany more tools, including decent ramp for a 6 mana general. I'm baffled at how much people complain.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
.
Would you like to read Commander stories? Check my latest stories, coming from Lorwyn and Innistrad: Ghoulcaller Gisa and Doran, The Siege Tower! If you like my writing, ask me to write something for your commander as well!
How is it the cat tribal deck is the most interesting of all the decks being released? They had wizards and vampires to work with along with dragons!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Ugh, screw this card for being green instead of red. Green has jack to do with equipment. Green HATES equipment. More than any other color, by far. Mono-white or boros would have made sense, GW makes no sense. But we gotta do stupid cats, so it's gotta be GW, screw the color pie and logic.
Plus, and more importantly, I can't use it with sunforger.
Still a decent card I guess. At least it's not *blech* cat tribal.
Ugh, screw this card for being green instead of red. Green has jack to do with equipment. Green HATES equipment. More than any other color, by far. Mono-white or boros would have made sense, GW makes no sense. But we gotta do stupid cats, so it's gotta be GW, screw the color pie and logic.
Plus, and more importantly, I can't use it with sunforger.
Still a decent card I guess. At least it's not *blech* cat tribal.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Ugh, screw this card for being green instead of red. Green has jack to do with equipment. Green HATES equipment. More than any other color, by far. Mono-white or boros would have made sense, GW makes no sense. But we gotta do stupid cats, so it's gotta be GW, screw the color pie and logic.
Plus, and more importantly, I can't use it with sunforger.
Still a decent card I guess. At least it's not *blech* cat tribal.
Those are all GOOD equipment but they aren't INTERESTING equipment. I've played all of those cards a million times before. Sunforger is a super sweet card with no real home in the format, despite RW being the 2 biggest equipment colors we have yet to see a RW commander with any equipment synergy. Instead we get cat tribal with equipment thrown in for no reason.
Gamble is way better than worldly tutor as long as sol ring and mana crypt are legal cards in the format, but that's neither here nor there (also why would you be so desperate for equipment tutors when your commander is an equipment tutor? Just blink it or something). Green is certainly better than red overall, but it makes no sense color-pie-wise and really doesn't contribute anything interesting to an equipment theme because green deliberately doesn't synergize with equipment. There are only 4 green cards that mention equipment in the entire game, and ALL of them destroy that equipment. I could forgive this for being mono-white but GW is just stupid.
It breaks the color pie, it doesn't let you play the existing equipment synergies in red, and most importantly IT DOESN'T GET #$@$@#$@^@#$#@$ SUNFORGER.
Not that there is a huge queue of cats waiting to be given a card
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
Older Magic as a Board Game: Panglacial Wurm , Mill
Anyone else think Nazahn is from Alara? His name sounds Nacatl, and the clothing reminds me of Bant.
Too bad about Zaliki, but there's always future Commander products or a potential return to Alara.
Consider this: Nazahn as your commander with his Hammer and Arahbo, Roar of the World can almost one-shot an opponent.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
I think it's less about green but more about Selesnya (WG) mentality, where one benefits the community as a whole, his passive helps his fellows, and his hammer helps them arm. Nezhan can be mono white, but being WG or WR makes sense also makes sense, this just happen to be a WG cat deck.
Zaliki is a shaman, but who knows, he might also be a vampire! If we get cat dragon, we can also have a cat shaman wizard too!
There's still hope!
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
To be fair, we kinda already knew that from the dragon deck leaks. While the Ur-Dragon is clearly a tribal commander, O-Kagachi and Ramos are not. And the two supporting small commanders (Taigam and Wasitora) are semi-tribal as in they'll work very well with tribal strategies but they can go their own way too. I'd expect such a pattern to follow throughout all four decks.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
I've been thinking this for awhile, one commander would be tribal based, one would be splashy and the third would be build around me.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
But...why is he green? Nothing about this guy is green. His artifact theme is actually anti-green.
On phasing:
As for the confusion over the G, I'm very tempted to just say it's Commander Tradition to celebrate MaRo's lack of attention by having G break the color pie (By now it doesn't happen every year, but overall when it does its usually always G that does it).
Perhaps with Vampires and Wizards ther has to be a Green representaion in this commander release, so WG cats it is.
Anyway it is a great card, but there are not a lot of WG equipment matters cards. In the end I want to get this deck and incorporate parts of it in my artifact Cube.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
Pretty expected for me to be honest, considering they've been doing that with Commander products for a long time now.
Dunes of Zairo
SHANDALAR
Innistrad - The Darkest Night
~THE RAVNICAN CONSORTIUM~
A Community Set
Commander: Allies & Adversaries
The new Mirri does a fine job of bringing green cats and equipment together without explicitly caring artifacts in a color that usually doesn't care about artifacts at all. "X support" doesn't have to mean X being mentioned on the card somewhere.
It's okay.
This doesn't take away anything from white/red just like Meddling Mage didn't take away from future designs like Nevermore. As i said above this just seems grandfathered in since the before this people played with Kemba and Raksha for cat tribal and now they can add in the green cat support and use a commander that already fits in the deck if they want.
The new Mirri does a fine job of bringing green cats and equipment together without explicitly caring artifacts in a color that usually doesn't care about artifacts at all. "X support" doesn't have to mean X being mentioned on the card somewhere.[/quote]
Mirri isn't an equipment commander and from complains from people about cards like Ulrich, people want commander that are straight up the theme of what they want to play. We also had a whole block showing that green can like artifact depending on how natural they view them so green can in some cases like artifacts.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Very meh...
I don't think of him as "overlap". I would be fine, if he had something indicating he was green like trample or vigilance or "3GG: CARDNAME gets +X/+Y until end of turn, where X is its power and Y is its toughness. Activate this ability only once each turn." Oh, that last ability would be awesome on a Voltron commander. Or the original daunt ability, also with a lot of Voltron potential. Alternately, he could have an ability that combines elements of both colors but feels like one ability the way Drogskol Reaver's card draw feels WU. Synergy isn't necessary, but it could also feel like one ability. Like "Put three +1/+1 counters on target creature you control and one +1/+1 counter on each other creature you control." (while not really a Voltron ability) feels like one GW ability, and Lightning Helix feels like one RW ability.
Just a few things I've been thinking of.
On phasing:
Yeah, GW is about community. I like that aspect of it - I've got a GW Innistrad humans deck that I love to play with. But he's more White than anything else, with Green tacked on because he's got fur.
Anyway, just enjoy the card! He is a thousaaand times better being GW than if he was monowhite. It gives him access to maaany more tools, including decent ramp for a 6 mana general. I'm baffled at how much people complain.
Read my other stories as well (some ongoing):
Reaper King (a horror story), Kaalia of the Vast (an origin story), Sequels for Innistrad (Alternative sequels for Inn), Grey Areas (Odric's fanfic), Royal Succession (goblins),The Tracker's Message (eldrazi on Innistrad) and Ugin and his Eye (the end of OGW).
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Plus, and more importantly, I can't use it with sunforger.
Still a decent card I guess. At least it's not *blech* cat tribal.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
... Your great complaint about equipment is boiling down to the deck not being boros, and you aren't able to use Sunforger? Last time I checked, Sword of Feast and Famine, Sword of Fire and Ice, Batterskull, Umezawa's Jitte, etc, do not really care if the deck has red. That and having Worldly Tutor to fish up Stonehewer Giant or Stoneforge Mystic sounds infinitely more useful than Gamble.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Gamble is way better than worldly tutor as long as sol ring and mana crypt are legal cards in the format, but that's neither here nor there (also why would you be so desperate for equipment tutors when your commander is an equipment tutor? Just blink it or something). Green is certainly better than red overall, but it makes no sense color-pie-wise and really doesn't contribute anything interesting to an equipment theme because green deliberately doesn't synergize with equipment. There are only 4 green cards that mention equipment in the entire game, and ALL of them destroy that equipment. I could forgive this for being mono-white but GW is just stupid.
It breaks the color pie, it doesn't let you play the existing equipment synergies in red, and most importantly IT DOESN'T GET #$@$@#$@^@#$#@$ SUNFORGER.
I mad bro.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6