Interesting. I didn't know that Christmas was moved to September this year.
I don't think Next is being changed/re-branded. It sounds like Next encompasses everything digital, which would put Arena within the universal scope of Next. From their FB page:
The MMO and MTG Arena are both games under the MDN umbrella. There will be a lot more information on September 7th, during our stream.
So, uh... what is it? A sequel to MTGO, or are we just speculating?
Definitely a replacement for Duels, not sure about MTGO.
MTGO is such a cash grab that I doubt they are going to drop it anytime soon.
If it is a replacement for duels, then I hope that it will allow players to unlock cards through playing at an acceptable rate like duels did.
Come to think of it, did they ever give some reasons for killing Duels? I think it works just fine, the only change needed imo is making it possible to buy individual cards and dropping the limit on how many boosters one can buy.
If it is a replacement for duels, then I hope that it will allow players to unlock cards through playing at an acceptable rate like duels did.
I would hope it's better about this than Duels was. Getting the cards you wanted in Duels took way too much time and was a frustrating experience. Boosters can't be the only way to get cards again, or the game will fail. It needs some system similar to the Dust/Shiftstone systems from Hearthstone/Eternal.
At the end of the day, Duels was a piss-poor excuse for a free-to-play card game all around, and I'm hoping they can get it right this time -- even if it means borrowing formula from other games that have gotten it right. Better ways to get cards, better game modes, better rewards. No matter how good the base card game is, not having these things is a sure-fire way to keep your game from succeeding.
In duels you could get the whole new set at release day just by getting a little more than 100 coins per day starting from the release of the set before.
The boosters are limited so that you get all the cards and no extra useless duplicates.
So... How is that so frustrating?
Yeah, for someone like me who loved building and playing with different decks all the time, I routinely accumulated enough coins to immediately purchase the entire new set on the day of its release. And still have at least 15,000+ coins left over (if not more).
But yeah, if you didn't play very often, good luck getting coins any other way than using real world money.
For example, cutting the coins price of boosters from old expansions (old by at least 2 expansions) by half would allow new players to get started at a much quicker pace than now.
Somehow.... I'm not sure that would work as intended. Can you imagine players spending real money on "points" to buy packs at a premium then having those cards completely deflate after two expansions? Or players buying dozens of packs in the last two months or so before a price drop?
It sounds like it should work as intended but that model works in the real world because the next iteration of a product is... well new and the old product is largely discontinued. But a digital medium amounts to a limitless supply. The only way I can see it working as intended is if a peer BST market doesn't exist.
In duels you could get the whole new set at release day just by getting a little more than 100 coins per day starting from the release of the set before.
The boosters are limited so that you get all the cards and no extra useless duplicates.
So... How is that so frustrating?
This in-game econ model is basically a pyramid scheme. The early adopters likely will never need spend any real money once they get the full card set. The grind thereafter is easy enough to let you keep up with the releases. Then Wizards will have to depend on latecomers to spend real money to for them to have any non-frustrating experience against the enfranchised vets. Sooner or later such model always fail.
Look on magicduels subreddit to see the frustration vented.
Heartstone model is way worse.
You can buy all the boosters you want, but if you have poor luck you will never get what you want or need.
The exchange rate of coins to boosters is ridiculous.
The exchange rate of card to dust to card again is even worse.
I find THAT much more frustrating.
Blizzards certain doesn't. I suspect if Wizards made that kind of money it wouldn't either. In the end money will drive how Wizards designs Arena. Given how Duels' econ model turned out, I believe Wizards' interests is not necessarily parallel with old Duels players interests. Doubt it at risk of your own disappointment.
In duels you could get the whole new set at release day just by getting a little more than 100 coins per day starting from the release of the set before.
The boosters are limited so that you get all the cards and no extra useless duplicates.
So... How is that so frustrating?
Yeah, for someone like me who loved building and playing with different decks all the time, I routinely accumulated enough coins to immediately purchase the entire new set on the day of its release. And still have at least 15,000+ coins left over (if not more).
But yeah, if you didn't play very often, good luck getting coins any other way than using real world money.
Yet that is still a more reliable way than allowing for endless booster purchase and useless duplicates to come up so that you cantrade them for other cards at a loss (Hearthstone) or not be able to trade them at all (Pokemon tcgo online purchases/priuzes).
In those scenarios you still need real money to buy boosters with no guarantee that you will evntually get what you need from the boosters or even that you can trade off the garbage for what you need (if the crafting prices are too high or if the tradings produce a degenerate secondary market like real life mtg).
EDIT: note that I'm not saying that the system is perfect. Far from it as it becomes really long to unlock all the cards if you start playing now that 8 expansions are out and you start at a huge disadvantage with respect to "veteran" players. It also becomes tedious if you want to use a deck that has mythics from all across the expansions, yet there are ways to solve the issue different from producing a money sink like the Heartstone crafting system or a trading system that in itself becomes a money sink.
For example, cutting the coins price of boosters from old expansions (old by at least 2 expansions) by half would allow new players to get started at a much quicker pace than now.
I'm actually a big fan of Pokemon TCGO and I think if they implemented a similair model into Arena I would be happy. Pokemon TCG is a little more genrous in their premium cards. Most of their tins/boxes have tournament worthy cards in them and come with a digital deck that includes an extra copy of the main card in them. I was able to put my own spin on that deck and won a lot more than with any deck that I've created on Duels or Magic online and that was with spending like $15. I think their prize model too is pretty good as they give you added incentive to play. I really like having the physical cards to play with my nephew and the option to play online as well and I really hope they go this route with product moving foreward. And if you want to rack up digital coins to buy digital product you can always do the Starter versus too which is a very even playing field for the most part. I know that it's lame that you can't trade from the digital boosters but I can understand why they do it that way.
For example, cutting the coins price of boosters from old expansions (old by at least 2 expansions) by half would allow new players to get started at a much quicker pace than now.
Somehow.... I'm not sure that would work as intended. Can you imagine players spending real money on "points" to buy packs at a premium then having those cards completely deflate after two expansions? Or players buying dozens of packs in the last two months or so before a price drop?
It sounds like it should work as intended but that model works in the real world because the next iteration of a product is... well new and the old product is largely discontinued. But a digital medium amounts to a limitless supply. The only way I can see it working as intended is if a peer BST market doesn't exist.
It doesn't work like that in a collectible card game as a discontinued product generally goes up in price because availability dwindles.
Anyway, this works perfectly with game bundles, for exampkle, you pay full price for a game, full price for an expansion and then some time later a bundle with game + expansion goes on the market with the same price tag as the original game at day 1 (or a little more, but less than what you paid anyway). Do people lose their sh*t for this? It happens constantly.
Things go on sale constantly in real world.
In duels you had a temporary 33% price reduction on the previous set when a new one was going to be released.
It is nothing new.
Make the price reduction permenent after the set has been out for an entire block (or 2) would not be such a change, neither something so upsetting, unless you are so unlucky to have bought that set with real money 1 day before the price drop.
@clod5
I really don't understand where this is coming from. Anyway b).
The more info you have, the better, then if you want to use the deck, change it or tweak it, it is your choice and not Sally's.
Maybe.
I think you're forgetting that the video game market isn't necessarily built around scarcity or collectability. What you're paying a premium for is the equivalent of early access.
CCG/TCG are built around scarcity. It's what drives pack sales. Part of the scarcity is derived by limiting production runs. Admittedly, I don't know (or care to) Duels so I might be off the mark here.
To me, Magic players are at odds. They want to recover the value the put into cards as they rotate out but want the cards to be cheaper to obtain as they near rotation.
I'm kind of holding out lot of hope that arena will be the hearthstone of magic. Mtg desperately needs a way to help match players based on their skill level, Available cards, etc, to encourage fair match-ups. That is one of the big weaknesses of the game in paper and part of the reason costs are the way they are on the second hand market for constructed.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Practicing alone, you develop a new competitive deck you are very
excited about. When you mention it to Deckmaster Sally, he tells
you it would never work in tournament play. Do you:
a) Use the new deck in the middle of a Grand Prix.
When it works, Sally will be forced to admit its
practicality or give a reason for not accepting it.
b) Keep asking Sally questions about it, focusing on
details of the meta to find his objection. Eventually he
will have to give a more specific criticism.
c) Accept his word without question. Deckmaster Sally has
been playing since Limited Edition Alpha. He knows a
flawed deck when he sees it, and it is better not to
waste his or your time asking why.
Just started. I'm an "Argonian," so major typo already. The framerate is terrible and there are display issues on the default settings, but I play MTGO, so no worries. The graphics will appeal to all you Drew Tucker fans. The gameplay is unexpected, but I'm inclined to say it's deeper than recent offerings. I recognize spells like Wildfire and Shock, but what's Auriel's Bow supposed to be?
Don't worry; the sequel will make things better by letting you customize directly rather than answering all those silly questions.
You can buy all the boosters you want, but if you have poor luck you will never get what you want or need.
You're playing to RNG regardless, but this has gotten a lot better in recent Hearthstone expansions. They've tweaked drop rates so you get far less duplicates than you used to.
The exchange rate of coins to boosters is ridiculous.
The exchange rate of card to dust to card again is even worse.
I'll be the first to admit that the rates in Hearthstone are not amazing, but that doesn't make the model itself bad. Even considering the frustratingly low rate at which you can get cards from boosters, and the frustratingly low rate at which cards break down into Dust, I was still able to build the decks I wanted to build faster in Hearthstone than I ever was in Duels.
Hearthstone isn't the only example of this model, either, and there are places it's done better. Eternal, for example, does the exact same thing but is way more forgiving about the rate at which you can get cards. This alleviates problems with the rate at which you accumulate Shiftstone, allowing you to get cards you want faster. It also helps that Eternal has a real Draft mode that lets you keep the cards you draft. If Magic Arena had a good balance for this, and had real modes with real rewards, it would be a much better model than what we had in Duels.
https://twitter.com/wizards_magic/status/893173622143164416
Correction: Arena and the MMO are part of the Magic Digital Next Umbrella -Jay13x
I don't think Next is being changed/re-branded. It sounds like Next encompasses everything digital, which would put Arena within the universal scope of Next. From their FB page:
Trap your friends in an endless game with this 23-card combo!
Definitely a replacement for Duels, not sure about MTGO.
Come to think of it, did they ever give some reasons for killing Duels? I think it works just fine, the only change needed imo is making it possible to buy individual cards and dropping the limit on how many boosters one can buy.
Magic: The Gathering: Battlemage
Magic: The Gathering: Armageddon
At the end of the day, Duels was a piss-poor excuse for a free-to-play card game all around, and I'm hoping they can get it right this time -- even if it means borrowing formula from other games that have gotten it right. Better ways to get cards, better game modes, better rewards. No matter how good the base card game is, not having these things is a sure-fire way to keep your game from succeeding.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Yeah, for someone like me who loved building and playing with different decks all the time, I routinely accumulated enough coins to immediately purchase the entire new set on the day of its release. And still have at least 15,000+ coins left over (if not more).
But yeah, if you didn't play very often, good luck getting coins any other way than using real world money.
I hope this game is continued in some form.
Its a lot better than the cardgame to me.
Somehow.... I'm not sure that would work as intended. Can you imagine players spending real money on "points" to buy packs at a premium then having those cards completely deflate after two expansions? Or players buying dozens of packs in the last two months or so before a price drop?
It sounds like it should work as intended but that model works in the real world because the next iteration of a product is... well new and the old product is largely discontinued. But a digital medium amounts to a limitless supply. The only way I can see it working as intended is if a peer BST market doesn't exist.
This in-game econ model is basically a pyramid scheme. The early adopters likely will never need spend any real money once they get the full card set. The grind thereafter is easy enough to let you keep up with the releases. Then Wizards will have to depend on latecomers to spend real money to for them to have any non-frustrating experience against the enfranchised vets. Sooner or later such model always fail.
Look on magicduels subreddit to see the frustration vented.
Blizzards certain doesn't. I suspect if Wizards made that kind of money it wouldn't either. In the end money will drive how Wizards designs Arena. Given how Duels' econ model turned out, I believe Wizards' interests is not necessarily parallel with old Duels players interests. Doubt it at risk of your own disappointment.
A banner.
Announcing announcements just got real.
I'm actually a big fan of Pokemon TCGO and I think if they implemented a similair model into Arena I would be happy. Pokemon TCG is a little more genrous in their premium cards. Most of their tins/boxes have tournament worthy cards in them and come with a digital deck that includes an extra copy of the main card in them. I was able to put my own spin on that deck and won a lot more than with any deck that I've created on Duels or Magic online and that was with spending like $15. I think their prize model too is pretty good as they give you added incentive to play. I really like having the physical cards to play with my nephew and the option to play online as well and I really hope they go this route with product moving foreward. And if you want to rack up digital coins to buy digital product you can always do the Starter versus too which is a very even playing field for the most part. I know that it's lame that you can't trade from the digital boosters but I can understand why they do it that way.
Maybe.
I think you're forgetting that the video game market isn't necessarily built around scarcity or collectability. What you're paying a premium for is the equivalent of early access.
CCG/TCG are built around scarcity. It's what drives pack sales. Part of the scarcity is derived by limiting production runs. Admittedly, I don't know (or care to) Duels so I might be off the mark here.
To me, Magic players are at odds. They want to recover the value the put into cards as they rotate out but want the cards to be cheaper to obtain as they near rotation.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Don't worry; the sequel will make things better by letting you customize directly rather than answering all those silly questions.
I'll be the first to admit that the rates in Hearthstone are not amazing, but that doesn't make the model itself bad. Even considering the frustratingly low rate at which you can get cards from boosters, and the frustratingly low rate at which cards break down into Dust, I was still able to build the decks I wanted to build faster in Hearthstone than I ever was in Duels.
Hearthstone isn't the only example of this model, either, and there are places it's done better. Eternal, for example, does the exact same thing but is way more forgiving about the rate at which you can get cards. This alleviates problems with the rate at which you accumulate Shiftstone, allowing you to get cards you want faster. It also helps that Eternal has a real Draft mode that lets you keep the cards you draft. If Magic Arena had a good balance for this, and had real modes with real rewards, it would be a much better model than what we had in Duels.
If it's just another terrible Duels game, well... at least it's one more thing to not have to buy.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Oh yea please hit it with AotP !
I love that game so much more than the cardgame. Stay at it wotc
None yet, but I think more info should be coming out after HasCon.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
Oh, nice, totally missed that one. Thanks.
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Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
It has higher requirement than dota and crysis.