So with Bolas being Grixis-coloured and him being one of the strongest spell-casters around, does anyone expect more cards that are references to him?
A high probably, and worst case we will probably see yet another cruel ultimatum reprint. Augur of Bolas and Disciple of Bolas are both Wizards as well that are cheap easy reprints.
sorry guys we are definately still have to wait for uzra to see the light of a card
no way he has B in his life theres was only like a couple times he went into that catergory but really his color combo is clearly jeskai WUR
the one and only hope of him being in this is if he gets izzet as his color combination
but problem number two he would be a artificer more than a wizard
While I agree that he is not getting a card here urza's colors are a subject of debate. He is certainly izzet and the debate lies whether he is more black or white. Really the only argument that he is white is because Serra said so. Eh. Argoth and the war with Mishra say otherwise. I cant imagine much more selfish things than to get an entire continent at war because I dont get along with my brother. I mean thats what it boils down to. Teysir and the other titans probably have some things to say about Urza as well.
And making him five colour would be a gross mistake. Urza never did anything remotely green. I would go as far as to say he is the embodiment of everything green hates. I am sure he will get a card eventually but it will probably be playing on his skills as an artificer as you said. Which is a shame because we had this product last year.
On topic, Im happy with the choices and I will most likely end up buying all four of them. Im hoping that the rest of the decks have some miscelaneous new legends like Dragons have Taigam and Wasitora.
understand that you are the exception and not the rule. Saying that everyone want to play competitively and playing casual is just a bad thing that the format makes you do is wrong and assumptive. There are dozen of competitive format while commander is the closest thing to a casual format that we have. Don't be surprised if people want to play it casually then.
Since I feel this quote was addressed more towards me I will reply to it.
First, let`s establish some things:
1. Nowhere in my post I said casual play is a bad thing.
2. There is a casual and competitive version of commander. You can accept that or not. Also I'm not sold on your subjective opinion of 'commander is the closest thing of a casual format that we have', since people do play kitchen table magic with legacy-legal cards and there are a multitude of other formats such as vanguard, planechase and archenemy that, while certainly less played than commander, could be considered more or less 'casual.
Now, I'm not saying that I'm right in regard to my theory of 'why most multiplayer games are not competitive'. I'm pretty sure there is more than one answer to that question, but I'm saying that, in my view, a good chunk of the answer if not the strong majority of it comes from the fact you're playing Magic without the number of players the game was designed to be played with. In most magic games you can interact with your opponent, and in multiplayer game that means everyone can interact with everyone at the same time. That is not so common in other multiplayer games. In other games you either interact with the other players inside a limited range (such as War) or you do your own thing and hope that is better than your opponent's (such as Monopoly). In a multiplayer Magic game everyone is checking everyone else at the same time, and that creates a tension that someone can't easily just 'go for the win' without first amounting overwhelming advantage. If you don't consider this a significant factor as to why people don't play competitively, then I don't know what to tell you. You can believe that everyone just wants to 'have fun' and play suboptimal decks and strategies, but I state that playing such suboptimal decks and strategies is mostly a requirement to play multiplayer commander, not an option.
EDIT: I will add that, if multiplayer commander ever made a presence in real tournaments, the overall incentive of 'winning at all costs' would overcome the incentive of 'trying to play what everyone else is playing so you don't get hated out'. If that were to happen, I'm sure you would only see combo decks at the top tables where victory is decided by who can win quicker after the answers were removed.
Would you like to read Commander stories? Check my latest stories, coming from Lorwyn and Innistrad: Ghoulcaller Gisa and Doran, The Siege Tower! If you like my writing, ask me to write something for your commander as well!
And making him five colour would be a gross mistake. Urza never did anything remotely green. I would go as far as to say he is the embodiment of everything green hates. I am sure he will get a card eventually but it will probably be playing on his skills as an artificer as you said. Which is a shame because we had this product last year.
I don't mind Breya "taking Urza's spot" (so to speak), but I wished she got her own story, since Esper being able to create new Etherium on their own is actually a pretty big deal for them (and possibly Alara as a whole).
And making him five colour would be a gross mistake. Urza never did anything remotely green.
Urza employed Simic-y bioengineering during the Weatherlight Saga (Gerrard, the Metathran, etc.).
Mark Rosewater's opinion -- with which I agree -- is that Urza hit all five colors. Should an Urza card capture the totality of his character over years of storytelling, though, or should it capture a particular time in his history (like all neowalker cards)? The latter seems more likely.
I would hope it would just capture a particular part in his history, because I can't think of a single instance where he was embodying all five colors. To me he seems to have bounced around them at varying points in time. One story he's very clearly UR, the next he's UBR, if he's feeling particularly feisty then he's WUR and so on.
Probably a total long shot, but any way to spin Urza being designed as a UBR design instead of a WUBRG design? Was there any point in the story where his color alignment was more UBR?
Mishra is far more likely in those colors. Ursa was always a positive force even at the worst of times and damages he caused were always more of a side effect than actual intent.
Serra would like a word about that, he basically strong armed her into collapsing her entire plane into an energy source for his long term anti-Yawgmoth plan to "save her people" from the problem he brought to her doorstep lol
Also, there is an amazing short story of a time where he summoned a Shivan Dragon, gave it sentience and released it to "observe what it would do". When the dragon came back to complain it wasn't strong enough, he gave it more mana and release it again for observation. He then recalls it one last time, and gives it even more mana, which the dragon promptly uses to break free of Urza's control, torch his laboratory and fly away to conquer the countryside. Urza just shrugs and goes to his next project without bothering to solve the problem he created. He may not be black aligned, but he definitely didn't clean up all of the messes he created lol
All done with the best of intentions. (Or pure unadulterated rage). The fight against Yawgmoth and phyrexia was brutal beyond compare and heroes were falling like flies. Black requires selfish ambition and not just cold and calculated curiosity or undiluted anger.
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():
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
And making him five colour would be a gross mistake. Urza never did anything remotely green. I would go as far as to say he is the embodiment of everything green hates. I am sure he will get a card eventually but it will probably be playing on his skills as an artificer as you said. Which is a shame because we had this product last year.
Just a quick Note. Multani actually imprisoned Urza in a tree when he returned to Yavimaya. He did this so Urza could experience all the pain he had caused to the forests of the world in the brother's war. Multani was than trapped within Urza for a time after Urza's rescue by Barrin. Due to these experiences Urza was gifted the Weatherseed, born from the heart of yavimaya, to form the Weatherlight. So it could be easily argued that due to these events Urza had been imbued with, or had residual, green mana within him. However I've actually always seen Urza as UW or UWR.
On the Topic at hand. I'm a bit confused as to why we didn't get a 5th deck. Has wizards actually explained this and I missed it?
On the Topic at hand. I'm a bit confused as to why we didn't get a 5th deck. Has wizards actually explained this and I missed it?
Good question. I'm not sure if Wizards addressed it, but I heard because of all the stuff Wizards was working on, putting through quality control, pressing the creative team, etc. By having 4 decks instead of 5, it made it easier for the team to handle the extra work.
Regardless, it shouldn't matter too much in the grand scheme of things. We are still getting 56 new cards which is around the same number we get when we have 5 decks. If each commander deck has the same number of legends as the Dragon deck, each deck will have 5 new legendary creatures. That means 20 new legendary creatures. That's the normal amount we get in Commander sets, right? Possibly more?
Does anyone else find it strange that they're pushing white vampires? I mean, for Sorin it made a little sense, but as one of Black's iconic creatures it makes about as much sense as white demons or red sphinxes.
Urza was an absolute jerk in the story, extremely selfish and cared little about the wellbeing of others in his plan. He used everyone, then betrayed them all, he and Bolas would get along fabulously.
Maro said even though Bolas can use magic of all five colors, the "cost" of a planeswalker card is designed to fit the chaeacter's personality more so than his/her abilities. Urza in this case would be a WUBR walker, because he's anything but green in his traits.
On the Topic at hand. I'm a bit confused as to why we didn't get a 5th deck. Has wizards actually explained this and I missed it?
Good question. I'm not sure if Wizards addressed it, but I heard because of all the stuff Wizards was working on, putting through quality control, pressing the creative team, etc. By having 4 decks instead of 5, it made it easier for the team to handle the extra work.
Regardless, it shouldn't matter too much in the grand scheme of things. We are still getting 56 new cards which is around the same number we get when we have 5 decks. If each commander deck has the same number of legends as the Dragon deck, each deck will have 5 new legendary creatures. That means 20 new legendary creatures. That's the normal amount we get in Commander sets, right? Possibly more?
</blockquote>
Honestly, I'm fine with it either way I think, since it means the new cards can be a little more focused on helping out their tribe.
On the Topic at hand. I'm a bit confused as to why we didn't get a 5th deck. Has wizards actually explained this and I missed it?
Good question. I'm not sure if Wizards addressed it, but I heard because of all the stuff Wizards was working on, putting through quality control, pressing the creative team, etc. By having 4 decks instead of 5, it made it easier for the team to handle the extra work.
Regardless, it shouldn't matter too much in the grand scheme of things. We are still getting 56 new cards which is around the same number we get when we have 5 decks. If each commander deck has the same number of legends as the Dragon deck, each deck will have 5 new legendary creatures. That means 20 new legendary creatures. That's the normal amount we get in Commander sets, right? Possibly more?
</blockquote>
ofcoarse and we know 3 of the new ones are foiled
My money is on Ur-dragon (by default) and O-Kagachi and Ramos are the foil cards. Of the dragon deck.
Atleast 3 are new because of foiling I just hope the extra work payed off and they a little bit more generous with these
Like dragons getting atleast one or more of the following
Urza was an absolute jerk in the story, extremely selfish and cared little about the wellbeing of others in his plan. He used everyone, then betrayed them all, he and Bolas would get along fabulously.
Like Heliod used Elspeth and then killed her? Or August IV used Agrus Kos to break the guildpact? Using others can be a blue or white trait. Using others for personal gain is a black trait.
My statement was merely expressing a blunt dislike towards Urza, not a comment about his color(s). I'm aware that every color at certain degree can be quite evil.
That said, I believe using others for personal gain is a trait in EVERY color, depending on the character's level of empathy and self control. Yahenni, for one, is a black character with very high level of empathy, at the same time independent (black trait), borderline decadent (as in, exotic personal taste, also a black trait), and capable of stealing essence from others (another black aligned ability). Having desire is not mutually exclusive with decision making, albeit some would find it more difficult than others, for example Heliod's white trait emphasizes on his control (and desire to control) of others, instead of himself.
As presumptuous as this sounds, I think Mr. Rosewater is missing the mark a little--at the very least, he is outright contradicting examples set by past characters and races. In past stories given to us by the various Story Teams over the years, color seems dictated primarily by the type of magic associated with an individual person or species. Individuals in turn may find themselves inclined toward the magic that matches their personality--but not always. Sometimes a character is associated with magic that not at all matches their personality.
I'll take Ixidor as a prime example, right off the top of my head. His values are red (love, passion, vengeance) and his goals are likewise red (zealous annihilation of his foes on behalf of his beloved). His whole personality can be boiled down to passion, wrath, and love. Yet he and all his associated cards are mono-blue. Why? Because he prefers blue magic and is a master illusionist, and wields illusion and deception instead of fire and dragons in pursuit of his goals.
Likewise, the Cabal, despite their familial bonds, fraternal loyalty, internal codes of propriety and hierarchies, were black rather than white/black like the Orzhov, because they chose to associate themselves primarily with black magic. Characters like Heliod, Konda, Kirtar, and Teroh, while obsessed with power and willing to sacrifice others for their own ambitions, were mono-white rather than white-black because they believed in their own righteousness and associated themselves with pure white magic as a consequence. Cephalids, despite being scheming, murderous, backstabbing assassins (and occasionally genocidal tyrants) were nonethless monoblue because again, blue was the magic their species preferred and mastered, being water-dwellers.
In summary: a character's color identity reflects the colors of magic one most often associates with to achieve one's ends. The color chosen often reflects the personality or values of a character, but it doesn't necessarily have to.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I'd rather die speaking the truth than live a lie." --Gix, to Yawgmoth (pre-Phyrexia)
I get that he's not the 'face' card in the deck but he can be an alternate commander in the deck. And depending on where in the timeline we pull Urza from, he's either Jeskai (pre/early bothers war) or clearly grixis (mid/end of the brothers war).
Urza is a planeswalker. I don't understand why this discussion is even happening. Freyalise, from that same time, came back as a planeswalker, what makes people think Urza would come back as a creature card?
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.
Would you like to read Commander stories? Check my latest stories, coming from Lorwyn and Innistrad: Ghoulcaller Gisa and Doran, The Siege Tower! If you like my writing, ask me to write something for your commander as well!
A high probably, and worst case we will probably see yet another cruel ultimatum reprint. Augur of Bolas and Disciple of Bolas are both Wizards as well that are cheap easy reprints.
While I agree that he is not getting a card here urza's colors are a subject of debate. He is certainly izzet and the debate lies whether he is more black or white. Really the only argument that he is white is because Serra said so. Eh. Argoth and the war with Mishra say otherwise. I cant imagine much more selfish things than to get an entire continent at war because I dont get along with my brother. I mean thats what it boils down to. Teysir and the other titans probably have some things to say about Urza as well.
And making him five colour would be a gross mistake. Urza never did anything remotely green. I would go as far as to say he is the embodiment of everything green hates. I am sure he will get a card eventually but it will probably be playing on his skills as an artificer as you said. Which is a shame because we had this product last year.
On topic, Im happy with the choices and I will most likely end up buying all four of them. Im hoping that the rest of the decks have some miscelaneous new legends like Dragons have Taigam and Wasitora.
UBarrin, Master WizardU
USticher GeralfU
UIxidor, Reality SculptorU
UWNoyan Dar, Roil ShaperUW
First, let`s establish some things:
1. Nowhere in my post I said casual play is a bad thing.
2. There is a casual and competitive version of commander. You can accept that or not. Also I'm not sold on your subjective opinion of 'commander is the closest thing of a casual format that we have', since people do play kitchen table magic with legacy-legal cards and there are a multitude of other formats such as vanguard, planechase and archenemy that, while certainly less played than commander, could be considered more or less 'casual.
Now, I'm not saying that I'm right in regard to my theory of 'why most multiplayer games are not competitive'. I'm pretty sure there is more than one answer to that question, but I'm saying that, in my view, a good chunk of the answer if not the strong majority of it comes from the fact you're playing Magic without the number of players the game was designed to be played with. In most magic games you can interact with your opponent, and in multiplayer game that means everyone can interact with everyone at the same time. That is not so common in other multiplayer games. In other games you either interact with the other players inside a limited range (such as War) or you do your own thing and hope that is better than your opponent's (such as Monopoly). In a multiplayer Magic game everyone is checking everyone else at the same time, and that creates a tension that someone can't easily just 'go for the win' without first amounting overwhelming advantage. If you don't consider this a significant factor as to why people don't play competitively, then I don't know what to tell you. You can believe that everyone just wants to 'have fun' and play suboptimal decks and strategies, but I state that playing such suboptimal decks and strategies is mostly a requirement to play multiplayer commander, not an option.
EDIT: I will add that, if multiplayer commander ever made a presence in real tournaments, the overall incentive of 'winning at all costs' would overcome the incentive of 'trying to play what everyone else is playing so you don't get hated out'. If that were to happen, I'm sure you would only see combo decks at the top tables where victory is decided by who can win quicker after the answers were removed.
Read my other stories as well (some ongoing):
Reaper King (a horror story), Kaalia of the Vast (an origin story), Sequels for Innistrad (Alternative sequels for Inn), Grey Areas (Odric's fanfic), Royal Succession (goblins),The Tracker's Message (eldrazi on Innistrad) and Ugin and his Eye (the end of OGW).
I don't mind Breya "taking Urza's spot" (so to speak), but I wished she got her own story, since Esper being able to create new Etherium on their own is actually a pretty big deal for them (and possibly Alara as a whole).
Follow me on instagram @TheMTGWord
Mark Rosewater's opinion -- with which I agree -- is that Urza hit all five colors. Should an Urza card capture the totality of his character over years of storytelling, though, or should it capture a particular time in his history (like all neowalker cards)? The latter seems more likely.
The story's are on the podcasts tomorrow so the main commanders and their side commander should be spoiled
To clarify the better the ones that will be In foil.
All done with the best of intentions. (Or pure unadulterated rage). The fight against Yawgmoth and phyrexia was brutal beyond compare and heroes were falling like flies. Black requires selfish ambition and not just cold and calculated curiosity or undiluted anger.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Just a quick Note. Multani actually imprisoned Urza in a tree when he returned to Yavimaya. He did this so Urza could experience all the pain he had caused to the forests of the world in the brother's war. Multani was than trapped within Urza for a time after Urza's rescue by Barrin. Due to these experiences Urza was gifted the Weatherseed, born from the heart of yavimaya, to form the Weatherlight. So it could be easily argued that due to these events Urza had been imbued with, or had residual, green mana within him. However I've actually always seen Urza as UW or UWR.
On the Topic at hand. I'm a bit confused as to why we didn't get a 5th deck. Has wizards actually explained this and I missed it?
RB Olivia Voldaren RB
GB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons GB
BWR Queen Marchesa BWR
RW Anya, Merciless Angel RW
UW Bruna, Light of Alabaster UW
UB Wydwen, The Biting Gale UB
GU Momir Vig, simic visionary GU
WG Karametra, God of Harvests WG
WUBSydri, Galvanic GeniusWUB
Good question. I'm not sure if Wizards addressed it, but I heard because of all the stuff Wizards was working on, putting through quality control, pressing the creative team, etc. By having 4 decks instead of 5, it made it easier for the team to handle the extra work.
Regardless, it shouldn't matter too much in the grand scheme of things. We are still getting 56 new cards which is around the same number we get when we have 5 decks. If each commander deck has the same number of legends as the Dragon deck, each deck will have 5 new legendary creatures. That means 20 new legendary creatures. That's the normal amount we get in Commander sets, right? Possibly more?
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
Ummm.... Butcher of the Horde and Arjun, the Shifting Flame?
Maro said even though Bolas can use magic of all five colors, the "cost" of a planeswalker card is designed to fit the chaeacter's personality more so than his/her abilities. Urza in this case would be a WUBR walker, because he's anything but green in his traits.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Honestly, I'm fine with it either way I think, since it means the new cards can be a little more focused on helping out their tribe.
ofcoarse and we know 3 of the new ones are foiled
My money is on Ur-dragon (by default) and O-Kagachi and Ramos are the foil cards. Of the dragon deck.
Atleast 3 are new because of foiling I just hope the extra work payed off and they a little bit more generous with these
Like dragons getting atleast one or more of the following
Next up I'm going to be furious if I don't see Utvara Hellkite in this if it's not this will hit $20 fast
I would kiss them If they reprinted Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon but knowing them they would never put a infect creature in a casual deck
And Ofcoarse the white/blue/black spirit dragon(s) of O-kagachis best minions (even though he sacrificed the white one for defense purposes.)
THIS IS THE COMMANDER!
Besides urza would be a no green or jeskai commander and a planeswalker
Perhaps it is him shape-shifting as he Blind Seer?
Kidding, kidding...
EDH DECKS
Currently under construction
MAGECRAFT STORM
-Veyran, Voice of Duality-
Protection from Degeneracy
Do not pray for an easy life. Pray for the strength to endure a difficult one.
My statement was merely expressing a blunt dislike towards Urza, not a comment about his color(s). I'm aware that every color at certain degree can be quite evil.
That said, I believe using others for personal gain is a trait in EVERY color, depending on the character's level of empathy and self control. Yahenni, for one, is a black character with very high level of empathy, at the same time independent (black trait), borderline decadent (as in, exotic personal taste, also a black trait), and capable of stealing essence from others (another black aligned ability). Having desire is not mutually exclusive with decision making, albeit some would find it more difficult than others, for example Heliod's white trait emphasizes on his control (and desire to control) of others, instead of himself.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
I'll take Ixidor as a prime example, right off the top of my head. His values are red (love, passion, vengeance) and his goals are likewise red (zealous annihilation of his foes on behalf of his beloved). His whole personality can be boiled down to passion, wrath, and love. Yet he and all his associated cards are mono-blue. Why? Because he prefers blue magic and is a master illusionist, and wields illusion and deception instead of fire and dragons in pursuit of his goals.
Likewise, the Cabal, despite their familial bonds, fraternal loyalty, internal codes of propriety and hierarchies, were black rather than white/black like the Orzhov, because they chose to associate themselves primarily with black magic. Characters like Heliod, Konda, Kirtar, and Teroh, while obsessed with power and willing to sacrifice others for their own ambitions, were mono-white rather than white-black because they believed in their own righteousness and associated themselves with pure white magic as a consequence. Cephalids, despite being scheming, murderous, backstabbing assassins (and occasionally genocidal tyrants) were nonethless monoblue because again, blue was the magic their species preferred and mastered, being water-dwellers.
In summary: a character's color identity reflects the colors of magic one most often associates with to achieve one's ends. The color chosen often reflects the personality or values of a character, but it doesn't necessarily have to.
Read my other stories as well (some ongoing):
Reaper King (a horror story), Kaalia of the Vast (an origin story), Sequels for Innistrad (Alternative sequels for Inn), Grey Areas (Odric's fanfic), Royal Succession (goblins),The Tracker's Message (eldrazi on Innistrad) and Ugin and his Eye (the end of OGW).