What a bummer about FNM foils. Ill be a foil krosan warchief they bring back fnm foils a year from now because the data said people actually really like them.
I wish Prof had addressed the idiotic attempt to force people who give them money to change their life habits from Fridays to another day because they feel like it. Promos cost them nothing and have the potential, when used properly, to gain them attendance and dollars.
Who the hell uses 1 data point to make a decision on anything?? Jan vs June? Winter vs Summer, totally different Standard environment, zero advertising for better promos, and they didn't do a survey of people attending to see if they came for the promo or not. Complete logic fail.
You never force customers to do what you want when you want. You cater to what/when they want and draw them in with shiny things.
This reply isn't directed at Greyimp (or anyone specifically), but I quoted this because it compacts one of the aspects I wanted to raise.
Not going to argue about the data/communication issue (which I already stated here before is their blatantly weakest aspect - 3 days data for Felidar Guardian, data 13 years ago for Kamigawa...) and that better promos definitely drive better attendance, that's common sense.
But among all these "FNM is the only time I can play MTG and I play competitively" and "what customers (or more accurate, "I") want you need to cater to" really pointed out something though - the sense of entitlement on the assumption you are pretty much that the only type of player/customers that WotC has.
Like I said in my earlier post, the whole FNM "turning to casual" thing has a lot of people riled up and bemoaning the loss of tradition and while it's a legit point that even if the measures WotC put up to segregate the two (casual/competitive) from the "messed-up-across-LGS-around-the-globe" FNM system has repercussions (basically Standard Showdown on weekends prevents people like them from attending), the sense of entitlement that they think are the only competitive players around - it's like competitive players who can only play on weekends but not Fridays don't exist like that. Sure, we don't see them often, but they don't have almost 2 decades worth of tradition to have them be so visually obvious either.
I mean, think about it, imagine they went the other way round - FNM now features chase rares that's bound to turn almost every FNM into a cutthroat battle and Standard Showdown were introduced as "Casual Clashes" on weekends. People who play casually and can only play on Fridays will lose their Magic-playing day/incentives as well and judging from the general sense of entitlement, we'll get the exact same complaints here just from different people.
Despite all my relative defense for WotC (which they need because like I said they're totally bad at communication), I'm not saying the change was perfect - they could create Standard Showdown in the first place, what's stopping them from revamping both systems (FNM and showdown) to function on both Fridays and Saturdays instead. The prizes/foils alone will ensure the correct playerbase for each event, so I think it's honestly really stupid of them to not capitalize on it and maximize attendance on both days instead of attempting to dictate days for casual/competitive.
This thread frustrates me to some degree because while I do agree that WotC is making stupid decisions, a lot of people only think about themselves here as well and instead of coming up with some plan that can cater to all, they pretty much only complain about what affects them, which if you think about it in abstract makes them no different from the typical corporate decisions companies make done only for themselves.
Short story - they have two systems, they want to define them clearly as casual and competitive, so FNM gets the boot to Casual realm, so yeah, while we lose some promos and tradition, we get the definition for each system.
WotC wants to bait out to see if there are competitive Saturday/Sunday players using Showdown, it works so WotC banishes FNM to casual, but forgets about the Friday-only competitive player (those most clearly upset here). Said players complain about changes but pretty much doesn't acknowledge the other group WotC baited out and every suggestion is basically "revert changes/cater to me only".
Meanwhile Saturday-only-Casual players pretty much have nothing and continue to have nothing and nobody cares about them. Nobody on any division thinks of putting both systems on all the days (Friday, Saturday and Sunday) instead so regardless of alignment and/or time-free, you can play Standard (yeah I know other formats got flattened but WotC has blatantly stated through actions they wanted to flattened "YGO-formats" anyway).
EDIT/DISCLAIMER: I do understand not everyone only thinks for themselves, but after reading through the last 2 pages of complaints I got really frustrated that the thread was emitting that aura and I needed to vent that frustration out. While it's true WotC is terrible at data and communication, I'm even more frustrated that people aren't seeing their actual intentions, instead taking the miscommunication and stacking it with self-entitlement in complains rather than pointing out the simplest solution for everyone. It's true WotC is bungling hard with thinking it can dictate customers, but from some comments thinking self-entitlement is enough for a single group/type of players (of their type) to dictate both WotC and all other groups/types of playerbases is honestly no different.
Thing is my store is already very casual. No one net decks. Everyone helps the new players. I actually give newbies enough common to build their first deck and will help them learn important concepts like card advantage and manna curve. Thing is since the store is so casual many spikes don't show up there and well attendance is very hit or miss. There has been times when events didn't launch. Given the standard and modern events are free the store can't afford to give too much support so one random pack and one for the winner is all that is offered. Take away wizards support are the incentive just isn't there to spend the money to play (gas isn't free and neither is deck building). If we lose people just a few our FNM dies.
Yes I am thinking about my groups needs, thus my needs. But we have what wizards wants for FNM already. This change can kill our play group. If it dies I will quit playing in tournaments except prereleases. I have no desire to face the same net decks over and over. I have no desire or ability to spend hundreds of dollars per deck to be competitive. I have a tight budget and can't afford to draft weekly even though draft is my favorite format. This change could kill one place that is like wizards dreams FMN could be. Because let's face it most tokens are tossed anyway, so what kind of prize support are they anyway? They just aren't. FNM promo's usually was worth much but you could at least play magic with them. My days of real competitive magic are behind me. I did the GP thing and won more games than I lost, but it wasn't fun for me. I want to play FMN with a bunch of casual players who build their own decks. This change threatens that. That is why I oppose it. And yes it is 100% for selfish reasons. I don't want the tokens. Those I play with don't care about them. And even if only a few stop showing it could kill FNM at the store I play at. And with a pack and a pointless token as support it will be hard to attract new steady players to the store.
When I read this, I was like WTF, why not instead of replacing the FNM cards add an incentive like the double side token to all who join, so even the noobs and beginners get some sort of consolation to play.
This thread is full of idiots... Lightning Bolt is NOT being reprinted.
Many times has a writer in Wizards said so, because of the plain and simple fact that it's too powerful for what it costs. x/3 creatures shouldn't be able to die at instant speed for one mana without a signifigant drawback. (like PTE giving you a land)
I absolutely guarantee that LB will not be printed in M10, and you can quote me on that.
Actually there are other aspects beyond "this works/fails" for me". Wizards' policy is based on "this works for America", and always has been.
Here in Europe we have a totally different culture.
Friday evenings are drinking days. From 18 upwards, of course. Saturdays too. FNM does not do very well in the UK compared to the USA, and never has because those are key "going out" days. The whole idea of LGS centerd play is a very American one too. 70% of my twenty year Mtg-ing has been played in sanctioned events in pubs- drinking establishments. Nowadays WOTC have done their best to try and drown out independent TOs, but you can still find some LGS that allow events such as these to continue in pubs under their auspices. There is no "Fridays is FNM" culture here. Yes, FNM happens, but the numbers are small.[/qiuote]
Thats specific for your location.
Others will attend a FNM and it ends at almost midnight, after that plenty of time to go out and do whatever else with your friends.
This works perfectly fine for the last 20 years in areas i experienced, especially if you are in a city anyway.
Some stores might even do multiple FNM , one earlier for the kids and one after closing time of the shop for adults that get right there from working late. If you have enough people, all of that works.
[quote]As you get older there is less of a Friday night drinking culture, but older Mtg players sure as hell don't give a toss about Standard and will never play it for as long as it is about creatures and planeswalkers and two and three cc lightning bolts- unless they are aiming at specific events and playing seriously week-in-week out travelling to big events- in which case Mtg is very time consuming and incompatible with family life. The last FNM I went to had 26 Legacy players, 7 (?) standard. My local LGS has some new players and hits about 8-10 Standard, with other formats pulling in similar numbers every now and then.
In my area we practically only Draft for FNM, rarely in addition modern is played (and entirely different people play that, draft is still running), even more rare standard (only if theres a GP or a PTQ for it in the near future).
Draft is much more appealing as people can just come by and play, they dont need a deck at all. That way newbies can jump in and learn a lot very easily and people do not have to carry stuff around, they play a Draft FNM and can wander off at any moment to party in the city and get drunk or whatever (thats more annoying if you carry a lot of constructed decks with you).
So yes, culture is a big deal.
FNM for me works at its best as a Draft event.
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Not sure on your location. Pub closure time in the whole of the UK was 11 pm for most of the past twenty five years- that was the law across the country. Beyond that it was nightclubs- a very different thing to the ubiquitous pub culture that practically everyone seems to be invested in. You played FNM or went to the pub, not both, and a key point are the ages- across the whole of Europe older teenagers can legally drink, which is pretty much what they do on a Friday. With 24 hr licences today the pub scene is 12-1pm in larger cities, so its maybe a couple of hours post FNM, although many shut at 11, twelve hours after opening. Either way it is a huge competing attraction.
I can't wait for their new game day....31st December. Wow. Nearly every business other than pubs/clubs normally shut on New Year's eve for the massive party. Short of putting it on Dec 25th, I can't think of a day that is more unsuitable.
I disagree That "Investors" Would Complain... First of all, Its 12 Cards in one year. Secondly not all 12 i listed are super expensive. In fact half are less then 40 in "value" And have been reprinted 2 or 3 times. A Promo Alternate art Version of these will either be more then or about the same a the others and would probably barely depress prices more then 10% overall.
Third - THIS IS A BIG ONE - The Investors get these promos first before they give them out to anybody.. They could (and some do) make multiple changes to FNM when the promos were nice (like PTE and Serum Visions). Most of the LGS around started charging 8 to 10 dollars for FNM but they did 2.5-3 packs per person prize support and or a slice of pizza or free drink etc.
I can guarantee my LGS would take advantage of the "Valuable" Promo... like 1 pack prize support instead of 2 or raise FNM cost but ofset it with other value.
Last i know a few shops that are supposed to give promos to top 8 but they only do top 4...i wonder what these investors i mean shops do with the others???
My shop gives 1st and 2nd a promo and then 2 random people. You're only allowed one per event so if 1st got a random they bump it down and 3rd will get one.
It's a nice system where just by playing you have a chance to get one. Still $5 entry.
Yeah Thats what my shop did when it was listed as a smaller Shop on the WPN Network, but once it had its first (ithink) 32 Player event it qualifies for larger FNM rewards, which means they have enough for top 8 every week.
I feel like I need to answer a lot of misunderstanding in your post as a whole because I think you and those of us complaining are really on the same page, you just feel like you want to stand on the WotC side of the line.
As a business, your marketing department's purpose is to find out what potential and current customers like and offer them as close as you can get or something similar to hold and increase your sales/attendance. When I say 'you cater to what they want' I'm not saying selfishly 'I'm important', I'm saying 'marketing department, make sensible decisions to increase your engaged, interested, and new players'.
My LGS FNM is casual but I expect to face Top 8 decks because netdecking is a thing. And that's ok, it raises my game to brew and be able to beat those decks. That very same FNM has gone from 30 players every Friday to around 8 to 12 for standard, meanwhile Modern is the exact opposite. I even haven't played as much because the utter failure of a format has been brewproof an no I don't want to lose to another CoCo turn 4, or cat combo instawin even one more time.
Standard dumpster fire x decision to shorten rotation = about half quit and the other half invested in modern. That is completely Design/balance's fault.
Marketing shouldn't be trying to force the people they have left, who play and spend money, on different days or take away perceived rewards when they are already under duress because they very well might lose more. Whether because young newer players can't stay up as late on Fridays, or engaged and interested players have their schedules, or any other reasons you don't further alienate what you barely have left. That is common sense.
It isn't our job to 'come up with something' for WotC to do. They aren't going to listen anyways. People complaining about how it affects them personally is important DATA that should make the marketing department pay attention but when the decisions they make are so bloody awful and unsupported by facts and their explanations are so contradictory how you or WotC expect anything but outrage?
How about just keeping FNM as it is and adding rewards (tokens whatever) to Showdowns and making those the learner thing? There, problem solved. WotC, fix it.
I did disclaim the post was more of a rant after being frustrated by the "entitlement" aura the thread emitted for me (whether the posters meant it or not does not really change that influence) and perhaps I structured it too well it actually came off more of an argument than rant... but between that and WotC's clear incompetence (and lack of transparency, even if it's for business reasons) when it comes to data, it becomes increasingly difficult to find the correct middle ground to stand on.
Basically put, we are indeed on the same side, but I refuse to just "outrage" (Okay in fairness as I disclaimed way earlier I'm personally not attached to the changes so it's technically coming from an outsider) because I refuse to believe that WotC and its huge corporation techniques are really that incompetent (heavy emphasis on "that").
My main issue with them comes (besides not revealing data) is that no one tells us their execution process. They don't need to give us numbers, a rough idea of why they did it would be good. Instead we keep getting information that requires numbers but since they don't want to give us the numbers (that by itself is understandable to some degree), said information feels empty (and a sense of deception). Without numbers, the information have no stand, no message.
All that being said, you don't need said information/numbers to establish a stand. A strong statement can have the same effect and that's unfortunately what I'm trying to dredge here. My conclusion as of this moment (combined with my own "data" of observation) is that FNM has historically being a hodgepodge mess between casual and competitive if you look at the system as a whole (even from this thread alone I could see traces of that pattern) and the only strong statement I could see was them trying to establish something.
Despite all that, both sides (competitive and casual) have spoken about it as a bad move and I don't actually disagree. Like you people I could see the "perfect" solution among the complaints here (which I listed in the previous post) and honestly it's basically combining "solutions" (more of complaints) of each individual sides here. Although people pretty much only recommending the half of the solution which affects them only annoyed me enough that I just had to rant it off (yes I do know players are not WotC and not obliged to think of other groups of players, but like I said it still annoyed me).
What really annoys me is that WotC has no clear statement over what is practically seen as a lousy move from all sides, especially when their data claims are pointless without numbers. I had to dredge out what I could think is the only (admittedly not very strong) reason (the hodgepodge clear-up thing) behind it and since they're hiding behind the ambiguity of claimed data I cannot tell whether what I dredged out was in the correct direction.
I suppose I should (almost said could...) just forget about this whole thing and leave it to WotC (especially as an outsider), but since everyone pointed out the string of mistakes in recent years, can I really not be tempted to dredge out the real reasons behind the actions? Like I said, I refuse to believe they are THAT incompetent (and if they really are, then no amount of complaints can overwrite that sadly actually).
Or I'm just naive (probably am), but hey I did disclaim it doesn't really affect me, so I guess I can afford to be for this case (yeah, selfish for me, but hey if one is angry about it you basically experienced what I felt from the aura of complaints from the topic, so there's that ).
On the Guay art, I'd say finally, but C16 provided all my necessary Guay lands.
For those of you who don't know, before C16, Rebecca Guay only did two (very expensive) basic lands, a plains (The Great Wall of China) and a mountain (Taiwan). Mint condition copies (and since we're going pimp already, they will be mint condition) are $18 for the Great Wall, $6 for Taiwan.
Except...Guay's known for some white cards, but also green, blue, and one very powerful black card. You could splash blue and black, if you didn't mind bad lands and more bad lands. In fact, having her draw an APAC mountain always felt really bizarre, since she has like, four red cards (and one red/white card) to her name.
On money, no, WotC pays the same to print a token or a card.
Kaalia's not unique this way. Zedruu lets us repeat Michelle Bush's Trix, or just play politics. Ghave, a casual will just make a token swarm deck, but a competitive player will start looking for synergies like Aura Shards (already included in the deck!) and Grave Pact. Animar could easily be turned into a storm deck. And in fact, looking at our own Commander forum, the original five commander decks were turned into exactly that.
And that's where it's important to acculturate to your environment. I wouldn't play Narset "it's always my turn" against players just starting out, except if they're cocky.
On "SJW tactics", really? I'm pretty sure the SJWs just want otherkin with self-diagnosed Asperger's (not professionally diagnosed, of course) represented, nothing more. This? This is just idiotic marketing. If you want to draw a political parallel, we now know where Robby Mook has been working.
To summarize, it's amateur hour in the marketing department, but we should at least recognize it for what it is.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
It will be exciting to see what tokens they will print. I hope they will do lots of universal ones, like regular elves and goblins, saprolings, 3/3 beasts and stuff like that, but my gut tells me they will do stuff from the latest set. Ragavan tokens and eternalized Dreamstealer will not be as well received as thopters and 2/2 zombies, that's for sure. 99% of people who get blue/red insect tokens with flying might as well get a nicer bookmark.
It will be exciting to see what tokens they will print. I hope they will do lots of universal ones, like regular elves and goblins, saprolings, 3/3 beasts and stuff like that, but my gut tells me they will do stuff from the latest set. Ragavan tokens and eternalized Dreamstealer will not be as well received as thopters and 2/2 zombies, that's for sure. 99% of people who get blue/red insect tokens with flying might as well get a nicer bookmark.
They have stated it will be for the current set during the season so only if 2/2 zombies is a thing in Ixalan are we going to get 2/2 zombie tokens in its season. Your Gut is telling you exactly what they said the tokens will be only from the last set. So if you want saprolings better hope something makes them in Ixalan.
It cost Wizards so little to print cards. They really should be giving away promo Tokens to everyone who plays at FNM, and then a better rare token for people who do well enough.
It wouldn't hurt their sales and would encourage people to get out there, because free things are a great motivator. Even if it would be super common.
Bump this discussion again as I'm sad there's no game day to take my brews to. Total WotC screw up. Now you wait until the end of the set cycle when everyone can netdeck the most tested stuff and get 'tokens' from the next set. Woo ooo ew yuck.
Totally lame marketing moves by card people upgraded to marketing for no reason at all.
I have kids, weekend life, FNM is the time a couple times a month I can play so I've never gotten the special booster. Totally lame trying to push around how and when people play.
Bump this discussion again as I'm sad there's no game day to take my brews to. Total WotC screw up. Now you wait until the end of the set cycle when everyone can netdeck the most tested stuff and get 'tokens' from the next set. Woo ooo ew yuck.
Totally lame marketing moves by card people upgraded to marketing for no reason at all.
I have kids, weekend life, FNM is the time a couple times a month I can play so I've never gotten the special booster. Totally lame trying to push around how and when people play.
Totally agree & hope this experiment falls short. Fnm & the showdown day shouldn't be separate days. My store had its first Monday night showdown last night & 6 of us showed, 4 being brand new players. Why those new players weren't at fnm I don't know, but it didn't feel great playing them knowing they were new & this was marketed as a competitive event.
Only thing I like about the game day store championship change is playing for cards/playmat/deck boxes? from the next set.
Just look at Pokemon TCG, that's how you do things and how Hasbro never will do things because the losers they have picking their noses pretending to be a marketing department think pandering to SJWs in social media sells more product than keeping your consumer base happy.
In all seriousness, my ONLY incentive to go to my LGS isn't from WotC, but from the owners of the store, who do an annual invitationnal tournament with the top 24 players from their three branches. They usually do a three-format, 9 rounds tournament.
Last year was:
Modern Master 1 draft
Legacy
Modern
With the top 8 getting prices, first place being awarded a Commander Arsenal (for last year, at least).
The store owners don't get any support from WotC to do that kind of event. And they don't charge the players who performed well enough to be invited for these. WotC looks terribly CHEAP compared to our amazing LGS owners.
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"De potentia juvenis somniabat, nunc de Mundo somniat..."
I´m not the first to say this, but I really don´t get the argument that "ugh now I don´t have any incentive to go to my store to play Magic". Don´t we go there to play Magic with people? Unless the promo was extremely good, like Path or Push, I didn´t ever see it have any influence on the decision to attend FNM.
I think replacing the FNM promo cards with tokens is a terrible, horrible decision, same with unraveling Game Day, but I don´t see it leading to me playing any less or more. I just think lesser of WotC, that´s all.
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When I hit my 3000 post mark, I'm gone for good.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
I´m not the first to say this, but I really don´t get the argument that "ugh now I don´t have any incentive to go to my store to play Magic". Don´t we go there to play Magic with people? Unless the promo was extremely good, like Path or Push, I didn´t ever see it have any influence on the decision to attend FNM.
As far as FNM is concerned? I don't. Between Legacy, Modern, draft and Standard my store is running plenty of events for me to come and play and I can't play them all. So offering me a good promo is incentive for me to play draft and Standard because those are the FNM formats. I like Legacy and Modern more but for the right promo I'll draft instead that week.
I think replacing the FNM promo cards with tokens is a terrible, horrible decision, same with unraveling Game Day, but I don´t see it leading to me playing any less or more. I just think lesser of WotC, that´s all.
Agree with everything here except a minor quibble about game day: I did think two weeks after release was too early.
Just look at Pokemon TCG, that's how you do things and how Hasbro never will do things because the losers they have picking their noses pretending to be a marketing department think pandering to SJWs in social media sells more product than keeping your consumer base happy.
Is there anything that "the SJWs" can't be blamed for?
Just look at Pokemon TCG, that's how you do things and how Hasbro never will do things because the losers they have picking their noses pretending to be a marketing department think pandering to SJWs in social media sells more product than keeping your consumer base happy.
Is there anything that "the SJWs" can't be blamed for?
Global warming, North Korean missile tests, ebola I mean there certainly are. However, the reality is that WOTC corporate, as well as the pro circuit, is filled with toxic SJW culture. The reason it is toxic is that SJWs take literally any opposition to the consensus political platforms, no matter if it is evidence-based or framed in a calm reasonable manner, as a threat of violence (hence the term micro-aggression) and it leads out morality mobs. Look at the latest morality mob forming at the door of Kenji Egashira as people want him punished because the chat on his twitch stream said things they don't like. MtG, comics, video games, reality is these hobbies used to be a reason people were mocked fifteen or twenty years ago, and those people are now in positions of power in those industries. Those people still have an inferiority complex about popularity, especially with women, which makes it easy for feminists to gain influence. Basically...yeah Maro is an SJW because he didn't get laid enough in high school, so now he kowtows to feminists (which is the basis for the postmodern and communist fundamentals of social justice).
As to the actual question of the thread - yes, I only play standard for incentives. I'm competitive, and if an event does not have sufficient compensation for winning I do not participate. I am not a jerk to people who beat me. I do not belittle newer players or mock mistakes (which I have seen before at stores and absolutely hate). However, I'm there to fulfill my competitive drive. I get along with some people there, but I am there to play, to compete, to try to win, and get a return on those efforts. I now have zero reason to play FNM. However, from WOTC's description, Standard Showdown *is* designed to have greater rewards and a more competitive atmosphere. That is a welcome scenario to which I look forward to playing.
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Complaints about "The SJWs" are so completely off topic that I'm scratching my head wondering how this thread found itself here. If you want to discuss the Ixalan changes, go ahead. If you want to complain about PC culture, take it somewhere else
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I´m not the first to say this, but I really don´t get the argument that "ugh now I don´t have any incentive to go to my store to play Magic". Don´t we go there to play Magic with people?
Me and my friends can go to the LGS or to one of our houses, if you want us at the LGS instead of a place where we can cook some burgers and pop a beer between rounds, you gotta offer something more than foil tokens.
Basically you go to the LGS because you don't have friends who play Magic, because your friends who play Magic ARE the LGS people, or because you want the prizes they're giving out.
I second this, although people have different reasons for wanting to play at a LGS. Not everyone has a house full of burgers, comfy sofas and beer guzzling. I've seen many people buy a couple of boxes to play with their friends at home. I've also seen people gather at LGS to play their favorite game.
It's actually up to the shops to get creative with their events. I mean, this is the new directive from Wizards if it wasn't apparent enough. Truth be told, you can't win it all. There are tons of remote shops getting these freebies and selling them on eBay, etc. It's not that they don't wanna organize tournaments; sometimes the geographical aspect hinders it.
Think about it, these remote shops used to sell high value promos given by wotc on eBay, and I supposed the higher ups aren't too happy with this behavior, so the solution of token promos is the result.
As a casual player, I'm not too happy either. But what can you do?
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Yes I am thinking about my groups needs, thus my needs. But we have what wizards wants for FNM already. This change can kill our play group. If it dies I will quit playing in tournaments except prereleases. I have no desire to face the same net decks over and over. I have no desire or ability to spend hundreds of dollars per deck to be competitive. I have a tight budget and can't afford to draft weekly even though draft is my favorite format. This change could kill one place that is like wizards dreams FMN could be. Because let's face it most tokens are tossed anyway, so what kind of prize support are they anyway? They just aren't. FNM promo's usually was worth much but you could at least play magic with them. My days of real competitive magic are behind me. I did the GP thing and won more games than I lost, but it wasn't fun for me. I want to play FMN with a bunch of casual players who build their own decks. This change threatens that. That is why I oppose it. And yes it is 100% for selfish reasons. I don't want the tokens. Those I play with don't care about them. And even if only a few stop showing it could kill FNM at the store I play at. And with a pack and a pointless token as support it will be hard to attract new steady players to the store.
“Homo homini lupus est.”
Not sure on your location. Pub closure time in the whole of the UK was 11 pm for most of the past twenty five years- that was the law across the country. Beyond that it was nightclubs- a very different thing to the ubiquitous pub culture that practically everyone seems to be invested in. You played FNM or went to the pub, not both, and a key point are the ages- across the whole of Europe older teenagers can legally drink, which is pretty much what they do on a Friday. With 24 hr licences today the pub scene is 12-1pm in larger cities, so its maybe a couple of hours post FNM, although many shut at 11, twelve hours after opening. Either way it is a huge competing attraction.
I can't wait for their new game day....31st December. Wow. Nearly every business other than pubs/clubs normally shut on New Year's eve for the massive party. Short of putting it on Dec 25th, I can't think of a day that is more unsuitable.
Yeah Thats what my shop did when it was listed as a smaller Shop on the WPN Network, but once it had its first (ithink) 32 Player event it qualifies for larger FNM rewards, which means they have enough for top 8 every week.
I did disclaim the post was more of a rant after being frustrated by the "entitlement" aura the thread emitted for me (whether the posters meant it or not does not really change that influence) and perhaps I structured it too well it actually came off more of an argument than rant... but between that and WotC's clear incompetence (and lack of transparency, even if it's for business reasons) when it comes to data, it becomes increasingly difficult to find the correct middle ground to stand on.
Basically put, we are indeed on the same side, but I refuse to just "outrage" (Okay in fairness as I disclaimed way earlier I'm personally not attached to the changes so it's technically coming from an outsider) because I refuse to believe that WotC and its huge corporation techniques are really that incompetent (heavy emphasis on "that").
My main issue with them comes (besides not revealing data) is that no one tells us their execution process. They don't need to give us numbers, a rough idea of why they did it would be good. Instead we keep getting information that requires numbers but since they don't want to give us the numbers (that by itself is understandable to some degree), said information feels empty (and a sense of deception). Without numbers, the information have no stand, no message.
All that being said, you don't need said information/numbers to establish a stand. A strong statement can have the same effect and that's unfortunately what I'm trying to dredge here. My conclusion as of this moment (combined with my own "data" of observation) is that FNM has historically being a hodgepodge mess between casual and competitive if you look at the system as a whole (even from this thread alone I could see traces of that pattern) and the only strong statement I could see was them trying to establish something.
Despite all that, both sides (competitive and casual) have spoken about it as a bad move and I don't actually disagree. Like you people I could see the "perfect" solution among the complaints here (which I listed in the previous post) and honestly it's basically combining "solutions" (more of complaints) of each individual sides here. Although people pretty much only recommending the half of the solution which affects them only annoyed me enough that I just had to rant it off (yes I do know players are not WotC and not obliged to think of other groups of players, but like I said it still annoyed me).
What really annoys me is that WotC has no clear statement over what is practically seen as a lousy move from all sides, especially when their data claims are pointless without numbers. I had to dredge out what I could think is the only (admittedly not very strong) reason (the hodgepodge clear-up thing) behind it and since they're hiding behind the ambiguity of claimed data I cannot tell whether what I dredged out was in the correct direction.
I suppose I should (almost said could...) just forget about this whole thing and leave it to WotC (especially as an outsider), but since everyone pointed out the string of mistakes in recent years, can I really not be tempted to dredge out the real reasons behind the actions? Like I said, I refuse to believe they are THAT incompetent (and if they really are, then no amount of complaints can overwrite that sadly actually).
Or I'm just naive (probably am), but hey I did disclaim it doesn't really affect me, so I guess I can afford to be for this case (yeah, selfish for me, but hey if one is angry about it you basically experienced what I felt from the aura of complaints from the topic, so there's that ).
For those of you who don't know, before C16, Rebecca Guay only did two (very expensive) basic lands, a plains (The Great Wall of China) and a mountain (Taiwan). Mint condition copies (and since we're going pimp already, they will be mint condition) are $18 for the Great Wall, $6 for Taiwan.
Except...Guay's known for some white cards, but also green, blue, and one very powerful black card. You could splash blue and black, if you didn't mind bad lands and more bad lands. In fact, having her draw an APAC mountain always felt really bizarre, since she has like, four red cards (and one red/white card) to her name.
On money, no, WotC pays the same to print a token or a card.
On casual versus competitive, of course, it works the other way too. Remember True-Name Nemesis? I mean, Commander decks are in an odd spot: A casual might start putting Serra, Baneslayer, both Akromas, Platinum Angel, all his favorite dragons, and a few choice demons in his Kaalia deck. A competitive player sees Chancellor of the Annex and Moltensteel Dragon were just printed in New Phyrexia. Going a couple sets back, we have Steel Hellkite, Skithyrix, the Blight Dragon, and Hoard-Smelter Dragon. Going into Zendikar block, you have Linvala, Keeper of Silence, Deathless Angel, Iona, Shield of Emeria, Rune-Scarred Demon, Pestilence Demon, and Ob Nixilis, the Fallen. In Alara, you have Flameblast Dragon, I guess. Time Spiral gives us Stronghold Overseer, okay, that's not much, but Ravnica block gives us Rakdos the Defiler! And Kamigawa gives us Ryusei, the Falling Star and Yosei, the Morning Star. This of course excludes cards (Angelic Overseer, Oros, the Avenger) that were in the Kaalia deck already. Quite a few of those are things a class of casuals see as "unfun".
Kaalia's not unique this way. Zedruu lets us repeat Michelle Bush's Trix, or just play politics. Ghave, a casual will just make a token swarm deck, but a competitive player will start looking for synergies like Aura Shards (already included in the deck!) and Grave Pact. Animar could easily be turned into a storm deck. And in fact, looking at our own Commander forum, the original five commander decks were turned into exactly that.
Repeat with Derevi (Winter Orb and Meekstone type Stax), Prossh (Food Chain), Marath (like Ghave, but less controllish), and Nekusar (Underworld Dreams and friends, Forced Fruition, Sword of War and Peace, Howling Mine) in the next generation. Third generation didn't have much, except the usual gnashing of teeth about how red shouldn't have reanimation and Goblin Welder-type effects and even a red Living Death aren't good enough. Fourth generation had, I guess Ezuri, Claw of Progress's synergy with Sage of Hours and a few Meren of Clan Nel Toth decks? Nothing really "unfun". Fifth generation doesn't seem like the place to crush casuals' dreams at all, Breya exempted, though there were complaints about partner.
And that's where it's important to acculturate to your environment. I wouldn't play Narset "it's always my turn" against players just starting out, except if they're cocky.
On "SJW tactics", really? I'm pretty sure the SJWs just want otherkin with self-diagnosed Asperger's (not professionally diagnosed, of course) represented, nothing more. This? This is just idiotic marketing. If you want to draw a political parallel, we now know where Robby Mook has been working.
To summarize, it's amateur hour in the marketing department, but we should at least recognize it for what it is.
On phasing:
It makes wonder if the people making decisions even knows Goodhart’s law is, and how to properly account for using metrics like that.
I loathe creatures! Praise Prison and Land Destruction!
My Peasant Cube (looking for feedback)
People will always complain. They think they are smart and they are right all the time.
3BB
Sorcery
You lose the game.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
It wouldn't hurt their sales and would encourage people to get out there, because free things are a great motivator. Even if it would be super common.
Totally lame marketing moves by card people upgraded to marketing for no reason at all.
I have kids, weekend life, FNM is the time a couple times a month I can play so I've never gotten the special booster. Totally lame trying to push around how and when people play.
Totally agree & hope this experiment falls short. Fnm & the showdown day shouldn't be separate days. My store had its first Monday night showdown last night & 6 of us showed, 4 being brand new players. Why those new players weren't at fnm I don't know, but it didn't feel great playing them knowing they were new & this was marketed as a competitive event.
Only thing I like about the
game daystore championship change is playing for cards/playmat/deck boxes? from the next set.Last year was:
Modern Master 1 draft
Legacy
Modern
With the top 8 getting prices, first place being awarded a Commander Arsenal (for last year, at least).
The store owners don't get any support from WotC to do that kind of event. And they don't charge the players who performed well enough to be invited for these. WotC looks terribly CHEAP compared to our amazing LGS owners.
I think replacing the FNM promo cards with tokens is a terrible, horrible decision, same with unraveling Game Day, but I don´t see it leading to me playing any less or more. I just think lesser of WotC, that´s all.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
As far as FNM is concerned? I don't. Between Legacy, Modern, draft and Standard my store is running plenty of events for me to come and play and I can't play them all. So offering me a good promo is incentive for me to play draft and Standard because those are the FNM formats. I like Legacy and Modern more but for the right promo I'll draft instead that week.
Agree with everything here except a minor quibble about game day: I did think two weeks after release was too early.
Is there anything that "the SJWs" can't be blamed for?
Global warming, North Korean missile tests, ebola I mean there certainly are. However, the reality is that WOTC corporate, as well as the pro circuit, is filled with toxic SJW culture. The reason it is toxic is that SJWs take literally any opposition to the consensus political platforms, no matter if it is evidence-based or framed in a calm reasonable manner, as a threat of violence (hence the term micro-aggression) and it leads out morality mobs. Look at the latest morality mob forming at the door of Kenji Egashira as people want him punished because the chat on his twitch stream said things they don't like. MtG, comics, video games, reality is these hobbies used to be a reason people were mocked fifteen or twenty years ago, and those people are now in positions of power in those industries. Those people still have an inferiority complex about popularity, especially with women, which makes it easy for feminists to gain influence. Basically...yeah Maro is an SJW because he didn't get laid enough in high school, so now he kowtows to feminists (which is the basis for the postmodern and communist fundamentals of social justice).
As to the actual question of the thread - yes, I only play standard for incentives. I'm competitive, and if an event does not have sufficient compensation for winning I do not participate. I am not a jerk to people who beat me. I do not belittle newer players or mock mistakes (which I have seen before at stores and absolutely hate). However, I'm there to fulfill my competitive drive. I get along with some people there, but I am there to play, to compete, to try to win, and get a return on those efforts. I now have zero reason to play FNM. However, from WOTC's description, Standard Showdown *is* designed to have greater rewards and a more competitive atmosphere. That is a welcome scenario to which I look forward to playing.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
Me and my friends can go to the LGS or to one of our houses, if you want us at the LGS instead of a place where we can cook some burgers and pop a beer between rounds, you gotta offer something more than foil tokens.
Basically you go to the LGS because you don't have friends who play Magic, because your friends who play Magic ARE the LGS people, or because you want the prizes they're giving out.
It's actually up to the shops to get creative with their events. I mean, this is the new directive from Wizards if it wasn't apparent enough. Truth be told, you can't win it all. There are tons of remote shops getting these freebies and selling them on eBay, etc. It's not that they don't wanna organize tournaments; sometimes the geographical aspect hinders it.
Think about it, these remote shops used to sell high value promos given by wotc on eBay, and I supposed the higher ups aren't too happy with this behavior, so the solution of token promos is the result.
As a casual player, I'm not too happy either. But what can you do?
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG