Wait. What happens when I cast 4 Lightning Bolts before the trigger off the first Bolt resolves? Will this deal a total of 22 damge?
Yes it works as you say.
No! It will add a counter as the resolution of the effect, so the second Bolt won't trigger it.
The thing is that you can cast second Lightning Bolt before the ability resolves and the counter is added.
That being said, the card is a bit unclear in whether the amount of damage is supposed to be the CMC of the spell, or the number of doom counters. I think the design intent should be the CMC of spell, which means casting 4 Lightning Bolts in response to each other would result in only 1 extra damage per Bolt.
Hour of Promise is the ramp spell that ramp decks for Standard have needed, especially if you play an early desert then seek out two more to get the zombies; that first set of deserts, then ones which etb tapped already, are perfect targets. That archetype which died when Explosive Vegetation last rotated out can now make a return to existence. With turn 2 and 3 mana dorks or Hedron Archive a turn 5 God-Pharaoh is not outside the realm of possibility.
Imminent Doom seems interesting but probably takes more work to make it effective than most people are willing to invest. Doesn't seem suited to any sort of burn or creature-based aggressive decks, though.
Am I missing something or is Imminent Doom just terrible? I don't see any applications for it in any constructed formats, including EDH. It doesn't seem good in limited either.
The reason it is bad is because you have to put doom counters on it, and you don't get to deal damage to a creature or player unless you cast a spell with the exact same converted mana cost as the number of doom counters (rather than the number of doom counters or less).
For extra-salt-on-the-wound points, they compared the card as the Red As Foretold (which well, could cast any spell lesser than the counters on it for free).
On the other hand though, I wonder if they did test a "or less" version with a variation of Modern Burn and it went terribly well for burn that they dropped the idea altogether. Development really needs to get the word out for this. I don't play Burn, so I'm unsure whether there's much tempo loss in playing this in exchange for escalating damage (that probably caps at 3) later on... and whether the technical cap of the card in burn is enough to win games (and therefore worthy of the tempo/deck slot).
As for Hour of Promise... Guys we managed to salvage the front half of Primeval Titan for EDH (with it costing 5 and the bodies being so conditional I'm not exactly sure if it even qualifies as "half", but just take that estimation lightly).
Why Rampant Gowth+? Surely its just a slightly better version of Explosive Vegetation? Also why are things so overcosted in this set?
Hour of Promise is not overcosted. It can search for any two lands, including nonbasics. I don't know if there is any precedent for a card other than Primeval Titan that can do that without a drawback.
Hour of Promise is likely reasonably good in commander, but Imminent Doom? Don't really see how that's an EDH card. Small bits of single target burn don't do much in the format and it takes far too much effort to get it to a significant amount of damage.
You must not have played a Mizzix of the Izmagnus deck with X-cost spells. Just because the cost reduction is mandatory doesn't mean you have to declare X as equal to your experience counters. So, every X-cost spell you cast can trigger Imminent Doom, as long as you adjust X according to the number of doom counters.
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
No! It will add a counter as the resolution of the effect, so the second Bolt won't trigger it.
The thing is that you can cast second Lightning Bolt before the ability resolves and the counter is added.
That being said, the card is a bit unclear in whether the amount of damage is supposed to be the CMC of the spell, or the number of doom counters. I think the design intent should be the CMC of spell, which means casting 4 Lightning Bolts in response to each other would result in only 1 extra damage per Bolt.
As a rule of thumb when resolving a spell or an ability read trought the entire card and resolve one card before resolving the others, normally cards don't offer the possibility of half-resolving.
Hour of Promise is likely reasonably good in commander, but Imminent Doom? Don't really see how that's an EDH card. Small bits of single target burn don't do much in the format and it takes far too much effort to get it to a significant amount of damage.
You must not have played a Mizzix of the Izmagnus deck with X-cost spells. Just because the cost reduction is mandatory doesn't mean you have to declare X as equal to your experience counters. So, every X-cost spell you cast can trigger Imminent Doom, as long as you adjust X according to the number of doom counters.
Seems like it's jumping through a lot of hoops and deliberately over or underscaling your spells for a minimal benefit. This doesn't seem worthy of a spot in the 99 of a Mizzix of the Izmagnus deck (or any EDH deck for that matter).
As Hour of Glory indicated, the Hour cycle is not in fact based on previous spells but with cost reduction effects. Hour of Revelation was just a special little snowflake that way.
Seems like it's jumping through a lot of hoops and deliberately over or underscaling your spells for a minimal benefit. This doesn't seem worthy of a spot in the 99 of a Mizzix of the Izmagnus deck (or any EDH deck for that matter).
Well, you know, there's always people who just want to have fun. Honestly, Commander is supposed to be a casual format. This card is certainly playable in Commander. You know cards that aren't? Search the City and Hedron Alignment. But this, this can work.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
As a rule of thumb when resolving a spell or an ability read trought the entire card and resolve one card before resolving the others, normally cards don't offer the possibility of half-resolving.
It's hard to tell if you're disagreeing or condescending. If the later, then please make sure you're right before pontifying.
The first part ("Whenever you cast a spell with converted mana cost equal to the number of doom counter on ~") is a triggered ability. It triggers on cast and goes on the stack. You cast the second lightning bolt in response, so it triggers again. It works.
The only issue is the confused wording, it's unclear if "that much damage" refer to the number of doom counters or the CMC of the spell.
As a rule of thumb when resolving a spell or an ability read trought the entire card and resolve one card before resolving the others, normally cards don't offer the possibility of half-resolving.
It's hard to tell if you're disagreeing or condescending. If the later, then please make sure you're right before pontifying.
The first part ("Whenever you cast a spell with converted mana cost equal to the number of doom counter on ~") is a triggered ability. It triggers on cast and goes on the stack. You cast the second lightning bolt in response, so it triggers again. It works.
The only issue is the confused wording, it's unclear if "that much damage" refer to the number of doom counters or the CMC of the spell.
This will probably end up being a "wait for official word/the faq" question, but my reading would have it being the number of doom counters, as they're the noun that immediately precedes the use of "that".
Wait. What happens when I cast 4 Lightning Bolts before the trigger off the first Bolt resolves? Will this deal a total of 22 damge?
Yes it works as you say.
I agree. Simpler scenario:
You cast Bolt #1, and a trigger goes on the stack for Imminent Doom.
If you respond to the trigger with Bolt #2, the Doom counter will yet to be added, so you would get another trigger.
When the first Doom trigger on the stack resolves, it will deal 1 damage and add a Doom counter.
Then the Bolt resolves.
Then the second Doom trigger on the stack resolves. There are now 2 Doom counters, so it deals 2 damange and adds another counter.
Then the other Bolt resolves.
Total damage: 1+3+2+3 = 9
If you were to Christmas Land 4 Bolts, you would get 1+3+2+3+3+3+4+3 = 22 damage
Am I missing something or is Imminent Doom just terrible? I don't see any applications for it in any constructed formats, including EDH. It doesn't seem good in limited either.
To my playstyle this week starts as unexciting as imaginable so far d:(
@ least tomorrow we c another Story-spotlight card & continuing from the last Story-article we may c the Locust God come to action & forces another last Stand ?
Since Hazoret survives all this, i hope she steps in & kills it.
As a rule of thumb when resolving a spell or an ability read trought the entire card and resolve one card before resolving the others, normally cards don't offer the possibility of half-resolving.
It's hard to tell if you're disagreeing or condescending. If the later, then please make sure you're right before pontifying.
The first part ("Whenever you cast a spell with converted mana cost equal to the number of doom counter on ~") is a triggered ability. It triggers on cast and goes on the stack. You cast the second lightning bolt in response, so it triggers again. It works.
The only issue is the confused wording, it's unclear if "that much damage" refer to the number of doom counters or the CMC of the spell.
I'd wait on oracle text/ruling first. There is already a precedent for abilities to make comparative checks both on trigger and resolution. And given the way it's worded to not really differentiate between cmc and number of doom counters for the damage they could easily make that ruling just to nip that problem in the bud
the ability of imminent doom doesnt half an "IF" clause so the ability doesnt check that means you can stack the 1 CMC spells and deal a ton of damage. I guess stacking bolts, Surgical extractions and mutagenic growths would be an incoming MTG goldfish against the odds deck...
As a rule of thumb when resolving a spell or an ability read trought the entire card and resolve one card before resolving the others, normally cards don't offer the possibility of half-resolving.
It's hard to tell if you're disagreeing or condescending. If the later, then please make sure you're right before pontifying.
The first part ("Whenever you cast a spell with converted mana cost equal to the number of doom counter on ~") is a triggered ability. It triggers on cast and goes on the stack. You cast the second lightning bolt in response, so it triggers again. It works.
The only issue is the confused wording, it's unclear if "that much damage" refer to the number of doom counters or the CMC of the spell.
You are absolutely right, i was just saying that for whoever was dubious about the rules.
So coffers + urborg. Or stage + dark depths. Or two urza lands.
The thing is that you can cast second Lightning Bolt before the ability resolves and the counter is added.
That being said, the card is a bit unclear in whether the amount of damage is supposed to be the CMC of the spell, or the number of doom counters. I think the design intent should be the CMC of spell, which means casting 4 Lightning Bolts in response to each other would result in only 1 extra damage per Bolt.
Imminent Doom seems interesting but probably takes more work to make it effective than most people are willing to invest. Doesn't seem suited to any sort of burn or creature-based aggressive decks, though.
For extra-salt-on-the-wound points, they compared the card as the Red As Foretold (which well, could cast any spell lesser than the counters on it for free).
On the other hand though, I wonder if they did test a "or less" version with a variation of Modern Burn and it went terribly well for burn that they dropped the idea altogether. Development really needs to get the word out for this. I don't play Burn, so I'm unsure whether there's much tempo loss in playing this in exchange for escalating damage (that probably caps at 3) later on... and whether the technical cap of the card in burn is enough to win games (and therefore worthy of the tempo/deck slot).
As for Hour of Promise... Guys we managed to salvage the front half of Primeval Titan for EDH (with it costing 5 and the bodies being so conditional I'm not exactly sure if it even qualifies as "half", but just take that estimation lightly).
Hour of Promise is not overcosted. It can search for any two lands, including nonbasics. I don't know if there is any precedent for a card other than Primeval Titan that can do that without a drawback.
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
Tutor any two lands? There must be some way to exploit that. Dark Depths + Thespian's Stage?
You must not have played a Mizzix of the Izmagnus deck with X-cost spells. Just because the cost reduction is mandatory doesn't mean you have to declare X as equal to your experience counters. So, every X-cost spell you cast can trigger Imminent Doom, as long as you adjust X according to the number of doom counters.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
As a rule of thumb when resolving a spell or an ability read trought the entire card and resolve one card before resolving the others, normally cards don't offer the possibility of half-resolving.
Modern: UB Zombie hunt UB - WR Boros tokens WR - BGW Treefolk tribal BGW
Commander: UR Mizzix, a Storm of spells UR (Decklist)
Seems like it's jumping through a lot of hoops and deliberately over or underscaling your spells for a minimal benefit. This doesn't seem worthy of a spot in the 99 of a Mizzix of the Izmagnus deck (or any EDH deck for that matter).
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
Well, you know, there's always people who just want to have fun. Honestly, Commander is supposed to be a casual format. This card is certainly playable in Commander. You know cards that aren't? Search the City and Hedron Alignment. But this, this can work.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
Hour of Promise Wow another forever staple in edh a steroid version of explosive vegetation and we don't even need the 2/2 tokens part.
It's hard to tell if you're disagreeing or condescending. If the later, then please make sure you're right before pontifying.
The first part ("Whenever you cast a spell with converted mana cost equal to the number of doom counter on ~") is a triggered ability. It triggers on cast and goes on the stack. You cast the second lightning bolt in response, so it triggers again. It works.
The only issue is the confused wording, it's unclear if "that much damage" refer to the number of doom counters or the CMC of the spell.
I agree. Simpler scenario:
You cast Bolt #1, and a trigger goes on the stack for Imminent Doom.
If you respond to the trigger with Bolt #2, the Doom counter will yet to be added, so you would get another trigger.
At that point, the stack is ready to resolve:
2nd Imminent Doom trigger
2nd Bolt
1st Imminent Doom trigger
1st Bolt
When the first Doom trigger on the stack resolves, it will deal 1 damage and add a Doom counter.
Then the Bolt resolves.
Then the second Doom trigger on the stack resolves. There are now 2 Doom counters, so it deals 2 damange and adds another counter.
Then the other Bolt resolves.
Total damage: 1+3+2+3 = 9
If you were to Christmas Land 4 Bolts, you would get 1+3+2+3+3+3+4+3 = 22 damage
Gaea's Cradle + Deserted Temple
Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx + Deserted Temple
Cradle + Nykthos
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth + Cabal Coffers
Dakmor Salvage + Strip Mine in The Gitrog Monster decks
Thespian's Stage + Dark Depths
Or any other utility lands that you could think of, with just a few of the following:
Phyrexian Tower, Volrath's Stronghold, Alchemist's Refuge, Winding Canyons, Serra's Sanctum, The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale... The possibilities are endless.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary Primer UG
Every card in this set sucks so far.
It doesn't have to be 4 bolts. Modern red burn decks have plenty of 1 CMC spells. (But, yeah, three of them have to be instants.)
@ least tomorrow we c another Story-spotlight card & continuing from the last Story-article we may c the Locust God come to action & forces another last Stand ?
Since Hazoret survives all this, i hope she steps in & kills it.
I'd wait on oracle text/ruling first. There is already a precedent for abilities to make comparative checks both on trigger and resolution. And given the way it's worded to not really differentiate between cmc and number of doom counters for the damage they could easily make that ruling just to nip that problem in the bud
You are absolutely right, i was just saying that for whoever was dubious about the rules.
Modern: UB Zombie hunt UB - WR Boros tokens WR - BGW Treefolk tribal BGW
Commander: UR Mizzix, a Storm of spells UR (Decklist)