So totaling up the pain: Your opponent can't cast noncreature spells, the opponent can only cast one spell per turn, the opponents creatures get -1/-1, their creatures have no abilities and have a base power of 1/1, the opponent can't activate abilities that aren't mana abilities, the opponent must sacrifice a planeswalker or creature they control during their upkeeps and if they can't they lose 5 life, and finally the opponent take 6+ damage during each of their future upkeeps.
for 8 mana, why not each opponent ?
didnt have to be a curse. or at least reduce it to 6 mana
It always amuses me to read comments like these that claim to know better than WotC's R&D. How about this: playtest these Eternalize cards and Overwhelming Splendor at the suggested costs. Both playing them and against them and then come back to me and tell me you'd slot these at their reduced costs.
On track though, I just put together a Bitterheart Witch deck for use with Archenemy, so I will likely be adding 4 of these and a few of the other new curses. Keep 'em coming!
It's unclear to me if overwhelming splendor shuts off abilities like cycle. Usually, cards only affect cards on the battlefield "unless it would not make sense" (like spell affecting the graveyard). In this case, it's non-obvious what would make sense, since cards not on the battlefield do have abilities.
Considering Overwhelming Splendor costs 6WW at the bare minimum it should affect all opponents. EDH players don't want to pay 8 mana for one card that hates out one player. I can cast In Garruk's Wake for one more mana. Mark Rosewater really needs to start playing EDH.
On an somewhat related note, I really wish there were more ways to reanimate enchantments.
But blinking this could be fun. If this hit all opponents it would really put a target on you. Targeting one player can be good if someone is getting out of hand.
Considering Overwhelming Splendor costs 6WW at the bare minimum it should affect all opponents. EDH players don't want to pay 8 mana for one card that hates out one player. I can cast In Garruk's Wake for one more mana. Mark Rosewater really needs to start playing EDH.
On an somewhat related note, I really wish there were more ways to reanimate enchantments.
But blinking this could be fun. If this hit all opponents it would really put a target on you. Targeting one player can be good if someone is getting out of hand.
I feel it's mean spirited to play cards that are this severe that only target one player.
It would be like playing Identity Crisis in a multiplayer EDH game. Just feels especially mean.
Yeah, it's as if they costed eternalize as if it was an additional ability that was a built-in 2-for-1. Wizards seems to think that return a 2/1 as a 4/4 should cost more than casting that 2/1. Crazy! Madness! Sarcasm!
Champion of Wits is a 2/1 with a mini brainstorm attached. Which can do again late game for 4 cards instead. (Which means eternalizing it, by itself, is at least a 3-for-1, potentially a 5-for-1 if you ditch unwanted lands.)
People are spoiled. Or witless as far as card evaluation or costing of abilities goes.
Eternalize is bad because the cards aren't often strong enough to initially play them when your opponents are just playing better cards. Guess what? When you spend all that mana to Eternalize late game, people will still be spending their mana on better things.
I think this Naga guy is certainly one of the more interesting Eternalize cards, but most of them feel pretty unplayable outside of limited just because they don't actually do anything except provide a meat shield.
It's unclear to me if overwhelming splendor shuts off abilities like cycle. Usually, cards only affect cards on the battlefield "unless it would not make sense" (like spell affecting the graveyard). In this case, it's non-obvious what would make sense, since cards not on the battlefield do have abilities.
Why yes, cycling counts as an activated ability. Although it won't affect something like Suspend.
Overwhelming Splendor is an EDH all-star. It just shuts down Atraxa and any decks all the way down. However, I would not be excited to open this at all.
Huh? This card is awful in EDH. If it affected all opponents it would be reasonably good, but 8 mana to disrupt one opponent is pretty much unplayable even in Commander.
8 mana to pretty much shut down someone's artifact combo deck. Seems worth it to me, especially if you play big durdly battle ships like we do at my table.
Or you could shut down all the artifact combo decks for twomana.
Well in order to shut most activated abilities you would have to spend an extra six. Which is eight mana and takes two cards. Basically you are looking at is: Do I want to spend eight mana and one card to shut down everything except mana and loyalty abilities, or do I want to spend eight mana and twocards to shut down everything except for activated abilities in the hand.
Overwhelming Splendor is an EDH all-star. It just shuts down Atraxa and any decks all the way down. However, I would not be excited to open this at all.
Huh? This card is awful in EDH. If it affected all opponents it would be reasonably good, but 8 mana to disrupt one opponent is pretty much unplayable even in Commander.
8 mana to pretty much shut down someone's artifact combo deck. Seems worth it to me, especially if you play big durdly battle ships like we do at my table.
Or you could shut down all the artifact combo decks for twomana.
Well in order to shut most activated abilities you would have to spend an extra six. Which is eight mana and takes two cards. Basically you are looking at is: Do I want to spend eight mana and one card to shut down everything except mana and loyalty abilities, or do I want to spend eight mana and twocards to shut down everything except for activated abilities in the hand.
Except that for the 8 mana across two cards you can handle multiple opponents. Versus, spending the same 8 mana and one card to only deal with one person...I'd rather do the former
Once again, those claiming overwhelming splendor is an edh allstar are completely wrong
In any decent pod, with this targetting just one person, it gets nuked, or it doesnt and grats on overkilling the guy who was already losing?
Its 8 mana, once youre at that point you should be making efforts to actually win, not turning a single opponents duders off with an enchantment thats easily destroyed, or completely ignored.
This edh myth gets so tiresome. It wont see but fringe casual play, and youll be hated on by your friends if you even play it there
As for the other guy? Eternalize is overcosted garbage and this set continues to fail at leaving any kind of memorable impression beyond the 3 gods, im not saying its bad per se, im saying its so forgettably average that the entire set so far excels at nothing while simultaneously not sucking at anything, i MIGHT run this guy in a zombie build... except at the cost it is there are so many better options in blue
Once again, those claiming overwhelming splendor is an edh allstar are completely wrong
Oh this is going to be good.
Gets out the popcorn
In any decent pod, with this targetting just one person, it gets nuked, or it doesnt and grats on overkilling the guy who was already losing?
OR you stopped the Elf player from getting a victory by making the Craterhoof Behemoth they were going to cast next turn into a Scornful Egotist. You also have shut off their mana elves because they no longer have any abilities.
once youre at that point you should be making efforts to actually win
Or you know, control the board in order to slowly grind out your victory.
not turning a single opponents duders off with an enchantment thats easily destroyed, or completely ignored.
If used correctly it could hit the person who is winning hard and make them now have to scramble to try and get a victory. But hey, you say its easy to destroy and you know what else is easy to destroy? Creatures and planeswalkers.
This edh myth gets so tiresome.
Myths are based on grains of truths.
It wont see but fringe casual play
Oh? Can you see in the future? And if so, can you tell me next week's winning lotto numbers?
and youll be hated on by your friends if you even play it there
Gee, tell me more about how I shouldn't play a stax card against unwilling casual players and friends.
Once again, those claiming overwhelming splendor is an edh allstar are completely wrong
In any decent pod, with this targetting just one person, it gets nuked, or it doesnt and grats on overkilling the guy who was already losing?
Its 8 mana, once youre at that point you should be making efforts to actually win, not turning a single opponents duders off with an enchantment thats easily destroyed, or completely ignored.
This edh myth gets so tiresome. It wont see but fringe casual play, and youll be hated on by your friends if you even play it there
As for the other guy? Eternalize is overcosted garbage and this set continues to fail at leaving any kind of memorable impression beyond the 3 gods, im not saying its bad per se, im saying its so forgettably average that the entire set so far excels at nothing while simultaneously not sucking at anything, i MIGHT run this guy in a zombie build... except at the cost it is there are so many better options in blue
Hmm. I wouldn't write off Champion of Wits too quickly. The eternalize is overcosted, but a 2/1 for 3 that draws 2/discards 2 on ETB might be playable without any additional text, especially in a deck that wants discard outlets and/or cards in its graveyard, and if you were going to play the card anyways then it's not like having the option to spend a bunch of mana to convert a Champion in your graveyard into an uncounterable 4/4 that draws 4/discards 2 on ETB is bad even if you're not going to do so very often.
The card is less flashy than your average rare, especially given how high the eternalize cost is. But I think it might see play in spite of that.
I suppose it could work in a Wizards tribal deck featuring Docent of Perfection. Yes, the wizards the transformed Docent generates are human and the Champion is a naga but the cards don't care about that, only the "wizards" type.
3 mana 2-1 that loots is fine but not great. Eternalize will be busted in limited which I assume is the justification for the cost. I don't think it will beat out rouge refiner for value 3 drop but of you want digging power attached to a blocker in a blue deck without refiner this seems fine. Not something I would jam 4 of but it is pretty flexible and that is sometimes a very important trait on a card.
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3 mana 2-1 that loots is fine but not great. Eternalize will be busted in limited which I assume is the justification for the cost. I don't think it will beat out rouge refiner for value 3 drop but of you want digging power attached to a blocker in a blue deck without refiner this seems fine. Not something I would jam 4 of but it is pretty flexible and that is sometimes a very important trait on a card.
Champion is the type of creature that every control deck wants. I don't know that it shines in this current Standard, but I can look at standard formats of the past and see that this would just shine. Not a 1:1, but it reminds me of Mulldrifter in many ways. On turn 3 you get a blocker to protect your life total while getting to see two cards and make a couple of choices.
If the rest of your deck can get you to the late game, you can effectively chain a couple of these together for some real card advantage. It snowballs in a way that can be backbreaking for decks that aren't prepared for a long game.
Unfortunately there are some real answers to the Eternalize mechanic now, so I doubt it will be tier 1.
Kinda want a WB Zombie legend that plays with Curses now.
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Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
I feel it's mean spirited to play cards that are this severe that only target one player.
It would be like playing Identity Crisis in a multiplayer EDH game. Just feels especially mean.
There are "mean-spirited" cards that hit all players. Symmetrical or "each opponent" cards can be feel bad or draw games out too.
Someone could be a jerk with this card, but there are lots of cards like that. The "social contract" should stop you from being a jerk. Targeted removal has a place in EDH and so do cards that target a player. It's all how you use it.
I actually did play test eternalize using an online app and even with the Amonkhet embalmer tools it was still garbage. You need two of the tools in play for it to be worth and even then your still playing catch up. This is a limmited mechanic that is worse than embalm cause at least embalm was better on curve. Doesn't take a genius to know R&D fcked up this mechanic, or are you going to tell me that Tribute and Cipher were perfectly strong mechanics in their set?
No, you misunderstood me. I didn't suggest that you playtest these cards as they were, I suggested that you playtest these cards as you think they should be. If you think Eternalize should cost less, then playtest it as though it did. And playtest against it. Mostly playtest against it. I'm sure you'd be royally pissed if someone sat down with a deck that churned out excessive amounts of card advantage on the cheap.
Also, embalmer's tools? Perhaps you're playing this card wrong. If you're trying to turn these cards into aggro cards, of course they're gonna be bad. Aggro has a small curve. This card in particular I see as a control card. It's not going to replace Gearhulk, but that's where I would use it in a mid-range-esque deck. Late game and need cards/an attacker? Eternalize this.
And as for tribute and cypher being 'terrible mechanics" apparently you haven't heard of Invisible Stalker [Cypher] or Doubling Season [Tribute]
Turn 3: Paradox Haze
Turn 4: Narset Transcendent (+1)
Turn 5: Curse of Misfortunes, Narset (+1)
Turn 6: Overwhelming Splendor (CoM), Curse of Death's Hold (CoM), Narset (+1)
Turn 7: Curse of Exhaustion (CoM), Curse of Thirst (CoM), Narset (-9 and Ultimate), Cruel Reality
So totaling up the pain: Your opponent can't cast noncreature spells, the opponent can only cast one spell per turn, the opponents creatures get -1/-1, their creatures have no abilities and have a base power of 1/1, the opponent can't activate abilities that aren't mana abilities, the opponent must sacrifice a planeswalker or creature they control during their upkeeps and if they can't they lose 5 life, and finally the opponent take 6+ damage during each of their future upkeeps.
It's not just a humility. It's also a linvala, one sided stony silence.........shuts down land abilities
It always amuses me to read comments like these that claim to know better than WotC's R&D. How about this: playtest these Eternalize cards and Overwhelming Splendor at the suggested costs. Both playing them and against them and then come back to me and tell me you'd slot these at their reduced costs.
On track though, I just put together a Bitterheart Witch deck for use with Archenemy, so I will likely be adding 4 of these and a few of the other new curses. Keep 'em coming!
Given the cards we've seen thus far, banning Marvel seems to be addressing not just current meta but also the upcoming ones.
And Overwhelming Splendor is not just a one sided Humility, it also shuts down activating abilities of non-mana/non-PW cards.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
But blinking this could be fun. If this hit all opponents it would really put a target on you. Targeting one player can be good if someone is getting out of hand.
I feel it's mean spirited to play cards that are this severe that only target one player.
It would be like playing Identity Crisis in a multiplayer EDH game. Just feels especially mean.
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
Eternalize is bad because the cards aren't often strong enough to initially play them when your opponents are just playing better cards. Guess what? When you spend all that mana to Eternalize late game, people will still be spending their mana on better things.
I think this Naga guy is certainly one of the more interesting Eternalize cards, but most of them feel pretty unplayable outside of limited just because they don't actually do anything except provide a meat shield.
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SHANDALAR
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A Community Set
Commander: Allies & Adversaries
Except that for the 8 mana across two cards you can handle multiple opponents. Versus, spending the same 8 mana and one card to only deal with one person...I'd rather do the former
In any decent pod, with this targetting just one person, it gets nuked, or it doesnt and grats on overkilling the guy who was already losing?
Its 8 mana, once youre at that point you should be making efforts to actually win, not turning a single opponents duders off with an enchantment thats easily destroyed, or completely ignored.
This edh myth gets so tiresome. It wont see but fringe casual play, and youll be hated on by your friends if you even play it there
As for the other guy? Eternalize is overcosted garbage and this set continues to fail at leaving any kind of memorable impression beyond the 3 gods, im not saying its bad per se, im saying its so forgettably average that the entire set so far excels at nothing while simultaneously not sucking at anything, i MIGHT run this guy in a zombie build... except at the cost it is there are so many better options in blue
Gets out the popcorn OR you stopped the Elf player from getting a victory by making the Craterhoof Behemoth they were going to cast next turn into a Scornful Egotist. You also have shut off their mana elves because they no longer have any abilities. So is Craterhoof Behemoth, Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker, Ugin, the Spirit Dragon. The list just goes on and on. But obviously they don't see play because of their mana costs. Or you know, control the board in order to slowly grind out your victory. If used correctly it could hit the person who is winning hard and make them now have to scramble to try and get a victory. But hey, you say its easy to destroy and you know what else is easy to destroy? Creatures and planeswalkers. Myths are based on grains of truths. Oh? Can you see in the future? And if so, can you tell me next week's winning lotto numbers? Gee, tell me more about how I shouldn't play a stax card against unwilling casual players and friends.
Tough to argue with you on any of these points.
The card is less flashy than your average rare, especially given how high the eternalize cost is. But I think it might see play in spite of that.
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
Champion is the type of creature that every control deck wants. I don't know that it shines in this current Standard, but I can look at standard formats of the past and see that this would just shine. Not a 1:1, but it reminds me of Mulldrifter in many ways. On turn 3 you get a blocker to protect your life total while getting to see two cards and make a couple of choices.
If the rest of your deck can get you to the late game, you can effectively chain a couple of these together for some real card advantage. It snowballs in a way that can be backbreaking for decks that aren't prepared for a long game.
Unfortunately there are some real answers to the Eternalize mechanic now, so I doubt it will be tier 1.
Kinda want a WB Zombie legend that plays with Curses now.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
Older Magic as a Board Game: Panglacial Wurm , Mill
There are "mean-spirited" cards that hit all players. Symmetrical or "each opponent" cards can be feel bad or draw games out too.
Someone could be a jerk with this card, but there are lots of cards like that. The "social contract" should stop you from being a jerk. Targeted removal has a place in EDH and so do cards that target a player. It's all how you use it.
No, you misunderstood me. I didn't suggest that you playtest these cards as they were, I suggested that you playtest these cards as you think they should be. If you think Eternalize should cost less, then playtest it as though it did. And playtest against it. Mostly playtest against it. I'm sure you'd be royally pissed if someone sat down with a deck that churned out excessive amounts of card advantage on the cheap.
Also, embalmer's tools? Perhaps you're playing this card wrong. If you're trying to turn these cards into aggro cards, of course they're gonna be bad. Aggro has a small curve. This card in particular I see as a control card. It's not going to replace Gearhulk, but that's where I would use it in a mid-range-esque deck. Late game and need cards/an attacker? Eternalize this.
And as for tribute and cypher being 'terrible mechanics" apparently you haven't heard of Invisible Stalker [Cypher] or Doubling Season [Tribute]
"Screw you. Pass."
I'm making Sen Triplets Curses in EDH because, hey.