However I am not sure why this needed to have the "sources you don't control" part, paying 2U to counter some random negative drawback etb trigger like Eater of Days is way too expensive. I don't think there are any applications even for Standard to counter your own triggers.
Because without that text if you wanted to cycle it with no ability to counter it would counter itself.
Worse. Since an object on the stack cannot target itself it will counter your card draw instead (the triggered ability resolves before the card draw from cycling).
They could resolve that by slapping a "may" in the middle. Unfortunately, that might still lead to some misclicks on MTGO (You'd have to target the card draw ability, then specifically decline to counter it), so I can see there being some argument for not using that option, especially since this version does let them not worry about it comboing with something in standard.
They could resolve that by slapping a "may" in the middle. Unfortunately, that might still lead to some misclicks on MTGO (You'd have to target the card draw ability, then specifically decline to counter it), so I can see there being some argument for not using that option, especially since this version does let them not worry about it comboing with something in standard.
Definitely. I have seen enough similar misplays that I actually would argue that they return the "may" wording and just adopt the "up to one target" wording so they work consistently with other spells and make the decision as the object is put onto the stack.
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
Cult of the Succubi Eating Kitten and Brotherhood of Hamsters - Zombie One/Hulking One - Brotherhood of Hamsters disapproves of Damage on the Stack amputation, the corruption of Mythics, and the "Major changes to Extended" in July 2010. You aborted our cards., but we approve of the Modern format. Even if it doesn't ha ve Carrion Feeder or Caller of the Claw in it.
Dex: http://deckbox.org/users/Egementium_instructoid
Pretty good for Standard, but it seems especially insane in Modern.
Is stifling a fetch and drawing a card for 2U good enough in Modern? I can't think of any other targets for this ability and I'm pretty sure that stopping grixis Shadow's 3rd land is mostly moot. Maybe this can hit Rift Bolt coming off of suspend, but again I don't think that's good enough.
Pretty good for Standard, but it seems especially insane in Modern.
Might see play. I mean Squelch has never even seen fringe play and this costs a mana more. It also hits triggered abilities and can't be countered but it doesn't seem amazing.
Pretty good for Standard, but it seems especially insane in Modern.
Might see play. I mean Squelch has never even seen fringe play and this costs a mana more. It also hits triggered abilities and can't be countered but it doesn't seem amazing.
It's about versatility. Squelch can't become a 3/1 flier when there's nothing to Squelch. There's also probably a lot of fringey stuff you can hit with it. Hold 3 mana open in Modern and now you can bluff so much, your opponent will have no idea what's coming.
'Course this does require holding open 3 mana.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
One of the best cards in the set so far. In fact, I'd say the best cards in this set are not even at the mythic level.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
If it was printed in amonkhet, standard players would not complain too much of marvel
Unless this was a colorless spell with a colorless cycling activation cost at 1 or less, Standard players would have every right to continue to complain about Marvel. Decks should not be forced to play certain colors or even certain cards just to be able to compete in the format against one specific card.
The card's text feels so blatantly like they tried to nerf it. The fact it can't stifle your own triggers and that it only stifles on a cycle really bothers me. Would love to see it as: "Whenever you cycle Nimble Obstructionist or whenever Nimble Obstructionist enters the battlefield, counter target activated or triggered ability". This is nothing more than almost Trickbind + Draw a card or a 3/1 flier for 3... except you can't counter triggered abilities you control. It just really bothers me.
Let's be clear: I can't think of a blue 3/1 for 2U at any rarity. I sure as heck can't think of one with flying and flash at 3 mana.
But wait, there's more! We're giving up any pretense of fair costing by making it cycle for the same price; so it's either the most aggressive costed flyer with a freestifle, or it's a fairly costed cantrip stifle... at no additional cost.
I can't tell what's more annoying - Wizards rampant and unabashed power creep, or the incompetent way they're doing it. It really feels like it's not so much a decision "let's make a powerful card" as "let's throw a bunch of things against the wall. And then reduce the cost by 2."
No sir. No.
Edit: Oh, and by the way; despite the fact we have a high profile group of creatures with "Whenever you cycle x or it enters the battelfield" triggers, this won't have it. Feel free to run into players misreading the card due to our incompetent set design.
My only question is why do you think wizards makes cards like this compared to some of the other garbage rates in the set. Is limited that big of a factor?
despite the fact we have a high profile group of creatures with "Whenever you cycle x or it enters the battelfield" triggers, this won't have it. Feel free to run into players misreading the card due to our incompetent set design.
Well, don't go "ok, i've seen this before, I know exactly what it does" after reading three words of rules text? Bad reading comprehension does not equal incompetent set design.
By this logic they should never bother with new variants of mechanics that have been done before in a remotely similar way, because it could be misread...
The card's text feels so blatantly like they tried to nerf it. The fact it can't stifle your own triggers and that it only stifles on a cycle really bothers me. Would love to see it as: "Whenever you cycle Nimble Obstructionist or whenever Nimble Obstructionist enters the battlefield, counter target activated or triggered ability". This is nothing more than almost Trickbind + Draw a card or a 3/1 flier for 3... except you can't counter triggered abilities you control. It just really bothers me.
To be clear, that wording doesn't work. Or, more specifically, it doesn't work the way people want it to. If you cycle this card without an ability on the stack, it will still trigger and you will need to choose a target. Unfortunately, that means the only target for its ability is its own Cycling ability which means if it could counter your activated or triggered abilities, it would always counter the cycling ability if someone was just trying to cycle it.
So basically, by making it say "you don't control" it lets you cycle the card without needing an opponent's ability on the stack (which would of course make this exponentially worse).
Now, Wizards could have just said "you may counter..." but they didn't and the text we have is fine and still gives us a more than playable card. My guess is that the latter wording just increases the chance for mis-clicks on MTGO and Wizards (rightfully) chose to eliminate that possibility.
Let's be clear: I can't think of a blue 3/1 for 2U at any rarity. I sure as heck can't think of one with flying and flash at 3 mana.
But wait, there's more! We're giving up any pretense of fair costing by making it cycle for the same price; so it's either the most aggressive costed flyer with a freestifle, or it's a fairly costed cantrip stifle... at no additional cost.
I can't tell what's more annoying - Wizards rampant and unabashed power creep, or the incompetent way they're doing it. It really feels like it's not so much a decision "let's make a powerful card" as "let's throw a bunch of things against the wall. And then reduce the cost by 2."
No sir. No.
Edit: Oh, and by the way; despite the fact we have a high profile group of creatures with "Whenever you cycle x or it enters the battlefield" triggers, this won't have it. Feel free to run into players misreading the card due to our incompetent set design.
What? This doesn't have a free Stifle if you cast it. It is just a worse Vendilion Clique in that case.
As to your last point, what creatures do we have that trigger when you cycle them or when they enter? There are none in Amonkhet and I haven't seen any in HOU. It is possible I missed a spoiler somewhere, but I didn't see any in the spoiler list. As such, there doesn't seem to be any cycle (so far) to compare this to that would cause confusion.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
Also, good in UBx EDH where this is recurrable with Phyrexian Reclamation, Volrath's Stronghold etc.
Cult of the Succubi Eating Kitten and Brotherhood of Hamsters - Zombie One/Hulking One - Brotherhood of Hamsters disapproves of Damage on the Stack amputation, the corruption of Mythics,
and the "Major changes to Extended" in July 2010. You aborted our cards., but we approve of the Modern format. Even if it doesn't ha ve Carrion Feeder or Caller of the Claw in it.Dex: http://deckbox.org/users/Egementium_instructoid
Is stifling a fetch and drawing a card for 2U good enough in Modern? I can't think of any other targets for this ability and I'm pretty sure that stopping grixis Shadow's 3rd land is mostly moot. Maybe this can hit Rift Bolt coming off of suspend, but again I don't think that's good enough.
Might see play. I mean Squelch has never even seen fringe play and this costs a mana more. It also hits triggered abilities and can't be countered but it doesn't seem amazing.
It's about versatility. Squelch can't become a 3/1 flier when there's nothing to Squelch. There's also probably a lot of fringey stuff you can hit with it. Hold 3 mana open in Modern and now you can bluff so much, your opponent will have no idea what's coming.
'Course this does require holding open 3 mana.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
It feels like Aven Mindcensor's brother-in-arms!
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
none
Modern
UBG B/U/G control
BBB MBC
WUR Control
WWW Prison
RRR Goblins
Legacy
BBB Pox
UBG B/U/G Control
UWU StoneBlade
UW Miracle Control
I agree this seems like a cycle of Aven Bird Wizard 3 CMC effects.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Good thing they have Ramunap Excavator to get those fetches back.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
Unless this was a colorless spell with a colorless cycling activation cost at 1 or less, Standard players would have every right to continue to complain about Marvel. Decks should not be forced to play certain colors or even certain cards just to be able to compete in the format against one specific card.
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
But wait, there's more! We're giving up any pretense of fair costing by making it cycle for the same price; so it's either the most aggressive costed flyer with a free stifle, or it's a fairly costed cantrip stifle... at no additional cost.
I can't tell what's more annoying - Wizards rampant and unabashed power creep, or the incompetent way they're doing it. It really feels like it's not so much a decision "let's make a powerful card" as "let's throw a bunch of things against the wall. And then reduce the cost by 2."
No sir. No.
Edit: Oh, and by the way; despite the fact we have a high profile group of creatures with "Whenever you cycle x or it enters the battelfield" triggers, this won't have it. Feel free to run into players misreading the card due to our incompetent set design.
Dunes of Zairo
SHANDALAR
Innistrad - The Darkest Night
~THE RAVNICAN CONSORTIUM~
A Community Set
Commander: Allies & Adversaries
Well, don't go "ok, i've seen this before, I know exactly what it does" after reading three words of rules text? Bad reading comprehension does not equal incompetent set design.
By this logic they should never bother with new variants of mechanics that have been done before in a remotely similar way, because it could be misread...
W(W/U)U Ephara - Flash & Taxes W(W/U)U || B(B/G)G Meren - Circle of Life B(B/G)G
RGW Marath - Ever shifting Wilds RGW || (U/R)C(W/B) Breya - Artificial Dominion (U/R)C(W/B)
UBR Becket Brass - take what you can, give nothing back UBR
So basically, by making it say "you don't control" it lets you cycle the card without needing an opponent's ability on the stack (which would of course make this exponentially worse).
Now, Wizards could have just said "you may counter..." but they didn't and the text we have is fine and still gives us a more than playable card. My guess is that the latter wording just increases the chance for mis-clicks on MTGO and Wizards (rightfully) chose to eliminate that possibility.
As to your last point, what creatures do we have that trigger when you cycle them or when they enter? There are none in Amonkhet and I haven't seen any in HOU. It is possible I missed a spoiler somewhere, but I didn't see any in the spoiler list. As such, there doesn't seem to be any cycle (so far) to compare this to that would cause confusion.