Is it disadvantage because it doesn't cantrip? It's "Scry 3, turn this into a different card which you can play later or now."
It sits in your graveyard until you want it, where it effectively reads "draw 1. If it's a creature, play it."
It's not advantage, but I'd rate it pretty neutral.
Control decks are usually creature-threat light. So, it's usually gonna be a draw, ESPECIALLY if you wait. 5G draw. Wow. Then you need a control deck that's running U and G.
This card is SO BAD. Until someone shows me a decklist this is good in, and explains why it's better than another card in its slot, it will remain bad.
I'd like to hear the developers/designers talk about this card. I get the feeling the fact that Scry is evergreen pushed them into making the blue side say Scry, when they could have made it more interesting with "Look at the top 3 cards of your library. Put any number of them into your graveyard and the rest back on top of your library in any order." Like Taigam's Scheming and its functional reprint Contingency Plan. The point is that, this is a graveyard matters block, and this card could be slightly better with an opportunity to fuel the graveyard, and this card could really use some marginal improvement.
Well I guess I would have preferred Mystic Speculation at rare over this garbage, I get that the green half of this is the real card but even the green half feels terrible.
Is it disadvantage because it doesn't cantrip? It's "Scry 3, turn this into a different card which you can play later or now."
It sits in your graveyard until you want it, where it effectively reads "draw 1. If it's a creature, play it."
It's not advantage, but I'd rate it pretty neutral.
Control decks are usually creature-threat light. So, it's usually gonna be a draw, ESPECIALLY if you wait. 5G draw. Wow. Then you need a control deck that's running U and G.
This card is SO BAD. Until someone shows me a decklist this is good in, and explains why it's better than another card in its slot, it will remain bad.
4G*. "Draw 1" effects usually cost 4, so this is upcosted by 1 to account for the creature potential.
Seems fine to me in a UG crush or Turbo Fog style deck, where you plan on getting most of your mana out and only need to use small amounts of it at a time.
I guess I'd rather just be optimistic about a card until it sees actual play and testing, rather than immediately crap on it.
So 4GU: Scry 3. Then reveal the top of your library, if its a creature, put it onto the battlefield, otherwise add it to your hand.
All you all are crazy if you think that is bad value. The only way this would be even better is if the blue half had Buyback2 like Mystic Speculation so you could repeatably scry 3.
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
Death, taxes, and a handful of people on MTGS insisting that the latest terrible spoiled card is actually really good when you combine it with other unplayable trash in a corner case Christmasland scenario.
Or the other half. Death, Taxes, and a large chunk of people on MTGS insisting every single card is terrible and will never see any play in any format ever.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Level 1 Judge
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
So 4GU: Scry 3. Then reveal the top of your library, if its a creature, put it onto the battlefield, otherwise add it to your hand.
All you all are crazy if you think that is bad value. The only way this would be even better is if the blue half had Buyback2 like Mystic Speculation so you could repeatably scry 3.
Lol, what? That card you proposed is GARBAGE. That's why this card is so bad. It's basically that card. Which is horrendous. See see the unwritten for recent unplayable garbage that is better than this card in almost every way.
Hell, urban evolution is leaps and bounds better than this card.
There is no convincing you, asmallcat, you just want to hate on it. You are actively scrounging for ammunition to use against other users. As you really actually don't want to actually be convinced otherwise. That you don't want your view, in any shred of the matter, wrong, that instead you are right. That quite a few of your retorts are pretty backhanded as you almost admit at times it has some merit.
Lol, what? That card you proposed is GARBAGE. That's why this card is so bad. It's basically that card. Which is horrendous. See see the unwritten for recent unplayable garbage that is better than this card in almost every way.
Quote from asmallcat »
If you play this in limited, you are doing it wrong.
Quote from asmallcat »
This card is SO BAD. Until someone shows me a decklist this is good in, and explains why it's better than another card in its slot, it will remain bad.
Ah yes, constructed powerhouse Weaver of Currents. This card is bad. Bad. Bad. Bad. Bad. Bad.
Quote from asmallcat »
Lol. You mean the card that's banned in modern and legacy? Yeah, I'm sure this sorcery will be a powerhouse in vintage, the only constructed format where top is legal.
Quote from asmallcat »
Oh, I also forgot see the unwritten, a recently printed, much better version of this card that ALSO saw literally 0 play.
Quote from asmallcat »
I mean, apparently it's not better than it looks, because it's awful and people in this thread keep saying it looks good.
Quote from asmallcat »
This ain't a cantrip. It doesn't replace itself. U scry 3 is wildly unplayable in most situations.
Quote from asmallcat »
But your point was the standard with summoning trap was so much stronger than this standard. Are you saying that see the unwritten's standard was also so much more powerful than this standard (which has seen multiple bannings) that it moves from completely unplayable garbage to good?
Reading the Mythic Spoiler comments made me realize this fits in nicely to a Momir Vig, Simic Visionary commander deck. Apparently the card's names translate to Reason // Live.
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
It's the Champion of Rhonas thread again. People never learn. If you think this card is good, feel free to put your money where your mouth is and preorder a ton of them.
I do not get your point at the beginning.
Suppose you are looking for a specific card.
Scry 3: You are searching this card from the top 3. If you hit, you get this card in the next draw. if not, put all of the top 3 at the bottom, and you might get this card from the 4th top card in the next draw.
Index: You are searching this card from the top 5. You get this card in the next draw. If you hit, you get this card in the next draw.
Suppose Index cannot give you the card from top 5 in the next draw, Scry 3 still cannot give you the card in the next draw.
Correct. But scry allows you to put any cards you don't want to see on the bottom of your deck, and Index does not. Basically, my initial point is that if you need something right now (or right next turn anyway), and anything after that point is worthless, then yes, Index is better. However, if that's not the case--and it usually isn't--then Scry is superior, because you would put all the cards you scried onto the bottom of your deck and move through your deck faster.
You know, putting the useless cards back to the bottom is nothing much different than putting them as the 3rd, 4th, and 5th card in the top (which is what Index allows you to do).
In addition, if you can access the fetch lands, you can easily shuffle those useless cards back to the deck. What is the difference between put those cards at the bottom or put them on the 3rd, 4th, and 5th at the top?
One more thing to notice. I am comparing this rare card with a garbage (almost...) common card, which is sad...
You are assuming you are in a format that has access to fetches. Limited/T2 do not. Scry 3 for U is fair and perfectly playable. Yes this is no Serum Visions but it may see play in control.
As a person who plays Standard for more than 5 years since M12, I would predict that Scry 3 for U is not Standard playable. We can see.
Without "draw a card" effect, this spell is losing the card advantage.
Except that it gets you a card when you play the Aftermath part?
Interesting card. I wonder if the Reason half will see play independent of the Believe half. One mana scry 3 is a card we've never seen before, and I'm having a hard time evaluating just how powerful that effect is. I suspect this could range anywhere from "meh" to "amazing." Maybe slightly worse than Ponder? I'm not sure. Very difficult to evaluate.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
WUBRGMr. Bones' Wild RideGRBUW Trap your friends in an endless game with this 23-card combo!
Interesting card. I wonder if the Reason half will see play independent of the Believe half. One mana scry 3 is a card we've never seen before, and I'm having a hard time evaluating just how powerful that effect is. I suspect this could range anywhere from "meh" to "amazing." Maybe slightly worse than Ponder? I'm not sure. Very difficult to evaluate.
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
Correct. But scry allows you to put any cards you don't want to see on the bottom of your deck, and Index does not. Basically, my initial point is that if you need something right now (or right next turn anyway), and anything after that point is worthless, then yes, Index is better. However, if that's not the case--and it usually isn't--then Scry is superior, because you would put all the cards you scried onto the bottom of your deck and move through your deck faster.
You know, putting the useless cards back to the bottom is nothing much different than putting them as the 3rd, 4th, and 5th card in the top (which is what Index allows you to do).
In addition, if you can access the fetch lands, you can easily shuffle those useless cards back to the deck. What is the difference between put those cards at the bottom or put them on the 3rd, 4th, and 5th at the top?
One more thing to notice. I am comparing this rare card with a garbage (almost...) common card, which is sad...
You are assuming you are in a format that has access to fetches. Limited/T2 do not. Scry 3 for U is fair and perfectly playable. Yes this is no Serum Visions but it may see play in control.
As a person who plays Standard for more than 5 years since M12, I would predict that Scry 3 for U is not Standard playable. We can see.
Without "draw a card" effect, this spell is losing the card advantage.
Except that it gets you a card when you play the Aftermath par.t?
We need to play 4G for the Aftermath cost in order to draw that card, which is too expensive.
There is a chance to hit a creature with the help from scry 3, bit this means we need to wait until turn 5.
In Standard, this combo is less robust than Aetherworks Marvel (looking at the top 3 cards vs 6 cards). As a result, not that impressive to me.
Even if this card sees play, it's still horrible. That U side REALLY could have used a little bit more of a push imo.
But blue's the color they're most conservative about anyways. At least it's how it feels.
Lmao what? "Even if this card turns out to be good it's still bad". Lol okay sure
I'd put this into a UG midrange/ramp strategy. This isn't one big 6 cmc card. This is a card that says "Scry 3" for U and then gives you an activated ability for the rest of the game that says "Draw a card. If it's a creature play it." for 5. That's at least decent imo.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Pop in, find a dragon, roast a dragon."
-Chandra Nalaar
There is no convincing you, asmallcat, you just want to hate on it. You are actively scrounging for ammunition to use against other users. As you really actually don't want to actually be convinced otherwise. That you don't want your view, in any shred of the matter, wrong, that instead you are right. That quite a few of your retorts are pretty backhanded as you almost admit at times it has some merit.
Lol, be sure to PM me in 6 months when this card is a standard powerhouse. I'll admit when I'm wrong. Hell, I though Elspeth, Sun's Champion was gonna be bad because she cost 6 mana.
I'm 99% confident this card is trash, though. This effect has never been broken when it's priced this high.
I like how everyone's comparing it to either index or see the unwritten when index doesn't let you mid game card draw or cheat a creature in and see the unwritten cant early game scuplt your draws for the cheap cost of u.
Ugin is going to get really bad once all the fatties are colourless. I sold all mine. Sell sell sell!
He's going to be absolutely rotten. Hangarback walker has already nerfed him quite significantly. I reckon he'll be $3 junk within 2 months of rotation
Right now, we have insufficient library manipulation in Standard so making certain the creature we want is on top of the deck is difficult, scry 3 notwithstanding. In very narrow instances Sanctum of Ugin can do it, otherwise we have to set up some sort of situation where Catacomb Sifter is doing the work for us or we have to rely on the completely forgotten Not Forgotten (how ironic).
The card will probably be much better in Limited than it will in Standard. Even on turn 1 on the play, if you start with Island and Reason you get to scry 3 (out of 33 cards), most likely making sure you find a decent 2-drop creature and at one more land the turn after that.
Beyond that....well, no one here has ever convinced someone else that a card is either good or bad. Only putting the card through its paces during testing can tell that.
It sits in your graveyard until you want it, where it effectively reads "draw 1. If it's a creature, play it."
It's not advantage, but I'd rate it pretty neutral.
Control decks are usually creature-threat light. So, it's usually gonna be a draw, ESPECIALLY if you wait. 5G draw. Wow. Then you need a control deck that's running U and G.
This card is SO BAD. Until someone shows me a decklist this is good in, and explains why it's better than another card in its slot, it will remain bad.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
But blue's the color they're most conservative about anyways. At least it's how it feels.
4G*. "Draw 1" effects usually cost 4, so this is upcosted by 1 to account for the creature potential.
Seems fine to me in a UG crush or Turbo Fog style deck, where you plan on getting most of your mana out and only need to use small amounts of it at a time.
I guess I'd rather just be optimistic about a card until it sees actual play and testing, rather than immediately crap on it.
All you all are crazy if you think that is bad value. The only way this would be even better is if the blue half had Buyback 2 like Mystic Speculation so you could repeatably scry 3.
Like what? Scry 3, Draw a Card? Making it better than a card thats banned in Modern and played in Legacy?
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
Or the other half. Death, Taxes, and a large chunk of people on MTGS insisting every single card is terrible and will never see any play in any format ever.
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
Lol, what? That card you proposed is GARBAGE. That's why this card is so bad. It's basically that card. Which is horrendous. See see the unwritten for recent unplayable garbage that is better than this card in almost every way.
Hell, urban evolution is leaps and bounds better than this card.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
This is TWO cards, so it shouldn't be treated like it's always just a 6 drop. We have two okay uncommon effects tacked on to a single card.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
Except that it gets you a card when you play the Aftermath part?
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Trap your friends in an endless game with this 23-card combo!
Actually, we have seen it before.
Mystic Speculation.
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
We need to play 4G for the Aftermath cost in order to draw that card, which is too expensive.
There is a chance to hit a creature with the help from scry 3, bit this means we need to wait until turn 5.
In Standard, this combo is less robust than Aetherworks Marvel (looking at the top 3 cards vs 6 cards). As a result, not that impressive to me.
Anything, but nothing at the moment...
Modern:
WUBRGAmulet Titan, WUBRGHuman
WUBRAd Nauseam, WBRGDeath Shadow, UBRGScapeshift, UBRGDredge
WURJeskai Nahiri, WURCheeri0s, WBGCounter Company, WRGBurn, UBRMadcap Moon, BRGJund Midrange
UBTurn,BRGriselbrand Reanimator, WGKnight Company, RGRG Tron, RGRG Ponza, XAffinity, XEldrazi Tron
I'd put this into a UG midrange/ramp strategy. This isn't one big 6 cmc card. This is a card that says "Scry 3" for U and then gives you an activated ability for the rest of the game that says "Draw a card. If it's a creature play it." for 5. That's at least decent imo.
-Chandra Nalaar
Lol, be sure to PM me in 6 months when this card is a standard powerhouse. I'll admit when I'm wrong. Hell, I though Elspeth, Sun's Champion was gonna be bad because she cost 6 mana.
I'm 99% confident this card is trash, though. This effect has never been broken when it's priced this high.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
Broken = Not Trash
Trash = Not Broken
Ergo, all cards except for "broken" effects are trash. Healthy mindset to have when evaluating cards, that!
The card will probably be much better in Limited than it will in Standard. Even on turn 1 on the play, if you start with Island and Reason you get to scry 3 (out of 33 cards), most likely making sure you find a decent 2-drop creature and at one more land the turn after that.
Beyond that....well, no one here has ever convinced someone else that a card is either good or bad. Only putting the card through its paces during testing can tell that.
I didn't play much during Time Spiral block, so I can't recall how often this saw play. Intuition tells me it didn't make many waves though.
Trap your friends in an endless game with this 23-card combo!
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'