I mean, the set makes itself and from what I understand, transform wasn't a popular mechanic for the majority of players. So again, whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
Transfrom (Innistrad, Dark Ascension, Shadows over Innistrad, and Eldritch Moon; also Magic Origins)
Popularity: Very Popular
In our market research, we've always asked about double-faced cards rather than the transform mechanic specifically (the latter is but a subset of the former), but being that every double-faced card we've done so far uses the transform mechanic, it's safe to say that the data is pretty synonymous with transform. Players love transform (and double-faced cards in general). The only things that rank above it are full-art lands, the guilds, hybrid mana, and gold cards, so one could argue it's the highest-ranking mechanic on the list of "all-time favorite mechanics."
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I mean, the set makes itself and from what I understand, transform wasn't a popular mechanic for the majority of players. So again, whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
Transfrom (Innistrad, Dark Ascension, Shadows over Innistrad, and Eldritch Moon; also Magic Origins)
Popularity: Very Popular
In our market research, we've always asked about double-faced cards rather than the transform mechanic specifically (the latter is but a subset of the former), but being that every double-faced card we've done so far uses the transform mechanic, it's safe to say that the data is pretty synonymous with transform. Players love transform (and double-faced cards in general). The only things that rank above it are full-art lands, the guilds, hybrid mana, and gold cards, so one could argue it's the highest-ranking mechanic on the list of "all-time favorite mechanics."
Right, quote the biggest troll that also says in the same article madness is likely only to return if the stars align when it was in the same set as transform. Your example is near meaningless when I could find posts on this very website from players who absolutely hate double faced cards. "Market research" is about as reliable as the majority vote for Trump, people in the masses are generally kinda stupid. I would also like to point out "market research" has shown people like the large over sized Commanders, when in reality people have used them almost NONE of the time and think they are complete garbage.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"People are the worst. The worst thing about music is that people play it." - Mike Patton
I mean, the set makes itself and from what I understand, transform wasn't a popular mechanic for the majority of players. So again, whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
Transfrom (Innistrad, Dark Ascension, Shadows over Innistrad, and Eldritch Moon; also Magic Origins)
Popularity: Very Popular
In our market research, we've always asked about double-faced cards rather than the transform mechanic specifically (the latter is but a subset of the former), but being that every double-faced card we've done so far uses the transform mechanic, it's safe to say that the data is pretty synonymous with transform. Players love transform (and double-faced cards in general). The only things that rank above it are full-art lands, the guilds, hybrid mana, and gold cards, so one could argue it's the highest-ranking mechanic on the list of "all-time favorite mechanics."
Right, quote the biggest troll that also says in the same article madness is likely only to return if the stars align when it was in the same set as transform. Your example is near meaningless when I could find posts on this very website from players who absolutely hate double faced cards. "Market research" is about as reliable as the majority vote for Trump, people in the masses are generally kinda stupid. I would also like to point out "market research" has shown people like the large over sized Commanders, when in reality people have used them almost NONE of the time and think they are complete garbage.
"Some random person disagrees with their conclusion based on Market Research so it must all be bull".
I mean, what? Madness hadn't been seen in over 10 years when it made a return in Innistrad. It is likely not to see a true return any time soon for the reasons MaRo gave. I don't get how commenting that Madness needs the right set has anything to do with DFC being popular (or unpopular). Those two things have nothing to do with one another.
You can dislike MaRo all you want (and it seems that you dislike him quite a bit), but that doesn't change the fact that he is right in that article. I mean, look at his blog and you will see people commenting on things that should be DFC all the time. If it were up to the people asking him questions, we would see DFC's in every set.
Yes, it is unpopular for some people. That doesn't mean the majority feel it is unpopular. Everything Wizards has says it is popular and we will likely see it again (and definitely more often than Madness).
Let's assume that your comment is accurate (that the majority of people are "kinda stupid"). I vehemently disagree with this assertion, but what do you think is going to happen at Wizards if you are right? If MaRo talked to his boss and said "people love DFCs we should print as much as possible" do you really think they are going to say "but MaRo, they are dumb; we are not going to do that"? Of course not. It doesn't matter the reasons; a company is going to produce a product that people want to buy. People buy fidget spinners and made the creator of the Pet Rock a millionaire. You can claim these are stupid and the people who bought them are dumb, but the people who made all the money off those things are crying all the way to the bank.
Wizards isn't here to serve you. They are here to produce a product to make money. If DFCs make them money, they are going to create them no matter what a minority group might think. So, you can hate DFCs all you want but your comment of them being wildly unpopular is just wrong.
I mean, the set makes itself and from what I understand, transform wasn't a popular mechanic for the majority of players. So again, whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
Transfrom (Innistrad, Dark Ascension, Shadows over Innistrad, and Eldritch Moon; also Magic Origins)
Popularity: Very Popular
In our market research, we've always asked about double-faced cards rather than the transform mechanic specifically (the latter is but a subset of the former), but being that every double-faced card we've done so far uses the transform mechanic, it's safe to say that the data is pretty synonymous with transform. Players love transform (and double-faced cards in general). The only things that rank above it are full-art lands, the guilds, hybrid mana, and gold cards, so one could argue it's the highest-ranking mechanic on the list of "all-time favorite mechanics."
Right, quote the biggest troll that also says in the same article madness is likely only to return if the stars align when it was in the same set as transform. Your example is near meaningless when I could find posts on this very website from players who absolutely hate double faced cards. "Market research" is about as reliable as the majority vote for Trump, people in the masses are generally kinda stupid. I would also like to point out "market research" has shown people like the large over sized Commanders, when in reality people have used them almost NONE of the time and think they are complete garbage.
"Some random person disagrees with their conclusion based on Market Research so it must all be bull".
I mean, what? Madness hadn't been seen in over 10 years when it made a return in Innistrad. It is likely not to see a true return any time soon for the reasons MaRo gave. I don't get how commenting that Madness needs the right set has anything to do with DFC being popular (or unpopular). Those two things have nothing to do with one another.
You can dislike MaRo all you want (and it seems that you dislike him quite a bit), but that doesn't change the fact that he is right in that article. I mean, look at his blog and you will see people commenting on things that should be DFC all the time. If it were up to the people asking him questions, we would see DFC's in every set.
Yes, it is unpopular for some people. That doesn't mean the majority feel it is unpopular. Everything Wizards has says it is popular and we will likely see it again (and definitely more often than Madness).
Let's assume that your comment is accurate (that the majority of people are "kinda stupid"). I vehemently disagree with this assertion, but what do you think is going to happen at Wizards if you are right? If MaRo talked to his boss and said "people love DFCs we should print as much as possible" do you really think they are going to say "but MaRo, they are dumb; we are not going to do that"? Of course not. It doesn't matter the reasons; a company is going to produce a product that people want to buy. People buy fidget spinners and made the creator of the Pet Rock a millionaire. You can claim these are stupid and the people who bought them are dumb, but the people who made all the money off those things are crying all the way to the bank.
Wizards isn't here to serve you. They are here to produce a product to make money. If DFCs make them money, they are going to create them no matter what a minority group might think. So, you can hate DFCs all you want but your comment of them being wildly unpopular is just wrong.
So to summarize what you are saying, company appealing to lowest common denominator = smart. That reasoning is why we have Donald Trump as our president, Transformer movies, remakes and reboots from now until the end of time, Jake Paul, Fidget Spinners, Mumble Rap, Coca-Cola, and insert whatever mindless mass consumer non-creative non-intelligent item here ______. Creativity is the opposite from the masses, and the masses want something safe, non-confrontational and devoid of challenge. It is not my intent to compare DFC's to the stupidity to appeal to mass consumerism and compare DFC's to the above mentioned items, I actually think DFC's are kind of cool and have interesting and creative applications within the game. However this product just makes no sense because there are so few transform cards and claiming market research to sell is a load of bull*****. My ultimate point here is that this product idea is ultimately lazy and I feel they are simply running out of ideas for FtV themes.
It always makes me laugh when I open threads expecting news or spoilers and just see a bunch of people fighting about Thassa knows what with novel length tl;dr posts lol
So to summarize what you are saying, company appealing to lowest common denominator = smart.
I am not suggesting it should always occur that way, but for a person/company/group that wants a certain result, it isn't necessarily the wrong approach. But, that summary is an oversimplification of what I was saying.
In any case, your premise is flawed as they are not pandering to the lowest common denominator. People like DFCs. Just because you don't doesn't make you superior to them.
And, to Tiro of Meletis's point, this is going wildly off topic. We have about a month to go until this is released so we will see the list of included cards in 3-4 weeks time. I am interested to see what cards they chose. Delver and Huntmaster seem like obvious includes. We will also have some less than steller inclusions as every FtV set has those.
So to summarize what you are saying, company appealing to lowest common denominator = smart.
It's almost like they're running a business or something, and after 25 years have a pretty good handle on how to create a supplemental product that'll make money.
It's almost like they're running a business or something, and after 25 years have a pretty good handle on how to create a supplemental product that'll make money.
Well theres a bunch of failures in the last bunch of years, so its not like they really "advanced".
Some products are filled with goodies, so they sell easy, its not like you need special skills to put value in a product (if theres a lot of value, any precon will sell out quickly, no matter what its about or how its marketed, simply because of its value).
FT-Annhilition was quite a failure as they missed to really out value in it (people "badly" wanted Damnation and didnt get it, no Ravages of War, and overall tons of cards nobody really wanted at all).
----
For double faced cards, it shouldnt be too difficult to use at least a bunch that matter.
DFC Jace might already push value, at least to support the MSRP of this set, anything else might just be extra.
So to summarize what you are saying, company appealing to lowest common denominator = smart.
I am not suggesting it should always occur that way, but for a person/company/group that wants a certain result, it isn't necessarily the wrong approach. But, that summary is an oversimplification of what I was saying.
In any case, your premise is flawed as they are not pandering to the lowest common denominator. People like DFCs. Just because you don't doesn't make you superior to them.
And, to Tiro of Meletis's point, this is going wildly off topic. We have about a month to go until this is released so we will see the list of included cards in 3-4 weeks time. I am interested to see what cards they chose. Delver and Huntmaster seem like obvious includes. We will also have some less than steller inclusions as every FtV set has those.
In the case of DFC's and regarding a fantasy card game that 12 year olds play alongside 30 year olds, I can't feel superior when I don't like DFC's or a new rules change or a new logo change. Whatever it may be it is just a card game. However I can feel superior when I say Adam Sandler movies are devoid of effort and thought, or Jake Paul is a sociopathic piece of garbage human being, because these are truths and I am superior to the moronic masses who these kinds of things cater to. It's called basic common sense intelligence, sorry if this offends the majority of you who just won't get it. I am sure most of you think this trolling, but I am sorry, as a singular entity the majority is painfully stupid and average.
Based on reading these forums I know if they did something like FTV:"Insert Artist Here" there would be some happy people. Think Rebecca Guay or Christopher Rush. Maybe stay away from Harold McNeill.
There are plenty of ways to take the FTV product that haven't been explored.
Based on reading these forums I know if they did something like FTV:"Insert Artist Here" there would be some happy people. Think Rebecca Guay or Christopher Rush. Maybe stay away from Harold McNeill.
There are plenty of ways to take the FTV product that haven't been explored.
This is actually a very cool idea, especially if it was a mix of their iconic pieces and other reprints with new art by the featured artist.
From the Vault: Foglio
From the Vault: Avon
From the Vault: Guay
From the Vault: Venters
From the Vault: Weatherlight Saga
From the Vault: Planeswalkers
From the Vault: Izzet
From the Vault: Dimir
From the Vault: Selesnya
Huey, Dewey and Louie are always dressed in RUG. it is CLEARLY going to be the wedges block Pioneer: WURFaerie fires BRGDragons ModernBGElves WRBurn UR Fires Turns URGift Storm UG Twiddle Storm
Need the following:
FTV: just print the damn dual lands
FTV: “That guy” commander generals
FTV: Jank “why not”
FTV: Mill
FTV: WTF “cards that cause games to suck fast”
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
I would be more likely to buy FTV: Tokens than some of the previous FTV sets. A set of full art foil tokens would be super sweet; a fun way to pimp out my cube and are unlikly to ever need replaced.
I'm still waiting for FtV: Vaults... I mean, after Mana Vault, Mutavault and Time Vault who the hell cares what else they put in it, right?*
*Yes, yes, I know... insert "Time Vault is Reserved List" comment here... *assumes foetal position under the shower and sobs uncontrollably*
I'm still waiting for FtV: Vaults... I mean, after Mana Vault, Mutavault and Time Vault who the hell cares what else they put in it, right?*
*Yes, yes, I know... insert "Time Vault is Reserved List" comment here... *assumes foetal position under the shower and sobs uncontrollably*
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
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nope;
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/storm-scale-innistrad-and-shadows-over-innistrad-2017-03-27
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Right, quote the biggest troll that also says in the same article madness is likely only to return if the stars align when it was in the same set as transform. Your example is near meaningless when I could find posts on this very website from players who absolutely hate double faced cards. "Market research" is about as reliable as the majority vote for Trump, people in the masses are generally kinda stupid. I would also like to point out "market research" has shown people like the large over sized Commanders, when in reality people have used them almost NONE of the time and think they are complete garbage.
I mean, what? Madness hadn't been seen in over 10 years when it made a return in Innistrad. It is likely not to see a true return any time soon for the reasons MaRo gave. I don't get how commenting that Madness needs the right set has anything to do with DFC being popular (or unpopular). Those two things have nothing to do with one another.
You can dislike MaRo all you want (and it seems that you dislike him quite a bit), but that doesn't change the fact that he is right in that article. I mean, look at his blog and you will see people commenting on things that should be DFC all the time. If it were up to the people asking him questions, we would see DFC's in every set.
Yes, it is unpopular for some people. That doesn't mean the majority feel it is unpopular. Everything Wizards has says it is popular and we will likely see it again (and definitely more often than Madness).
Let's assume that your comment is accurate (that the majority of people are "kinda stupid"). I vehemently disagree with this assertion, but what do you think is going to happen at Wizards if you are right? If MaRo talked to his boss and said "people love DFCs we should print as much as possible" do you really think they are going to say "but MaRo, they are dumb; we are not going to do that"? Of course not. It doesn't matter the reasons; a company is going to produce a product that people want to buy. People buy fidget spinners and made the creator of the Pet Rock a millionaire. You can claim these are stupid and the people who bought them are dumb, but the people who made all the money off those things are crying all the way to the bank.
Wizards isn't here to serve you. They are here to produce a product to make money. If DFCs make them money, they are going to create them no matter what a minority group might think. So, you can hate DFCs all you want but your comment of them being wildly unpopular is just wrong.
So to summarize what you are saying, company appealing to lowest common denominator = smart. That reasoning is why we have Donald Trump as our president, Transformer movies, remakes and reboots from now until the end of time, Jake Paul, Fidget Spinners, Mumble Rap, Coca-Cola, and insert whatever mindless mass consumer non-creative non-intelligent item here ______. Creativity is the opposite from the masses, and the masses want something safe, non-confrontational and devoid of challenge. It is not my intent to compare DFC's to the stupidity to appeal to mass consumerism and compare DFC's to the above mentioned items, I actually think DFC's are kind of cool and have interesting and creative applications within the game. However this product just makes no sense because there are so few transform cards and claiming market research to sell is a load of bull*****. My ultimate point here is that this product idea is ultimately lazy and I feel they are simply running out of ideas for FtV themes.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
In any case, your premise is flawed as they are not pandering to the lowest common denominator. People like DFCs. Just because you don't doesn't make you superior to them.
And, to Tiro of Meletis's point, this is going wildly off topic. We have about a month to go until this is released so we will see the list of included cards in 3-4 weeks time. I am interested to see what cards they chose. Delver and Huntmaster seem like obvious includes. We will also have some less than steller inclusions as every FtV set has those.
Well theres a bunch of failures in the last bunch of years, so its not like they really "advanced".
Some products are filled with goodies, so they sell easy, its not like you need special skills to put value in a product (if theres a lot of value, any precon will sell out quickly, no matter what its about or how its marketed, simply because of its value).
FT-Annhilition was quite a failure as they missed to really out value in it (people "badly" wanted Damnation and didnt get it, no Ravages of War, and overall tons of cards nobody really wanted at all).
----
For double faced cards, it shouldnt be too difficult to use at least a bunch that matter.
DFC Jace might already push value, at least to support the MSRP of this set, anything else might just be extra.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
Of course, they may throw in some garbage dfcs, but I think they can easily come up with 15 sought out cards.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
In the case of DFC's and regarding a fantasy card game that 12 year olds play alongside 30 year olds, I can't feel superior when I don't like DFC's or a new rules change or a new logo change. Whatever it may be it is just a card game. However I can feel superior when I say Adam Sandler movies are devoid of effort and thought, or Jake Paul is a sociopathic piece of garbage human being, because these are truths and I am superior to the moronic masses who these kinds of things cater to. It's called basic common sense intelligence, sorry if this offends the majority of you who just won't get it. I am sure most of you think this trolling, but I am sorry, as a singular entity the majority is painfully stupid and average.
Dunes of Zairo
SHANDALAR
Innistrad - The Darkest Night
~THE RAVNICAN CONSORTIUM~
A Community Set
Commander: Allies & Adversaries
I'm a little surprised we haven't gotten an FTV:PW yet, I figured they'd want to do that one pretty quick.
There are plenty of ways to take the FTV product that haven't been explored.
This is actually a very cool idea, especially if it was a mix of their iconic pieces and other reprints with new art by the featured artist.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
From the Vault: Foglio
From the Vault: Avon
From the Vault: Guay
From the Vault: Venters
From the Vault: Weatherlight Saga
From the Vault: Planeswalkers
From the Vault: Izzet
From the Vault: Dimir
From the Vault: Selesnya
Ftv: Elves
Ftv: Kithkin
Ftv: Ninja
Pioneer: WURFaerie fires BRGDragons
ModernBGElves WRBurn UR Fires Turns URGift Storm UG Twiddle Storm
FTV: just print the damn dual lands
FTV: “That guy” commander generals
FTV: Jank “why not”
FTV: Mill
FTV: WTF “cards that cause games to suck fast”
Multiplayer Decks- Memnarch - Animar, Soul of Elements - Zur, the Enchanter - Atraxa, Praetors' Voice - Food Chain Tazri - Teysa Karlov
Modern BUMill and Bant Spirits.
Thank you Xenphire for the signature!
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
*Yes, yes, I know... insert "Time Vault is Reserved List" comment here... *assumes foetal position under the shower and sobs uncontrollably*
My Stupidly Large Number of Current Decks
PucaTrade with me!
The Multiplayer Power Rankings
Cube: the Gittening (My Multiplayer Cube) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
The N00b Cube (Peasant cube for new players) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
Geth, Lord of the Vault
Perilous Vault
Vault of the Archangel
Disciple of the Vault
Vault Skirge
Spoils of the Vault
Lim-Dul's Vault
Open the Vaults
Knowledge Vault
Bottomless Vault
Helvault
yo dawg, i heard you like FTVs ...
And they could double foil them so you can't even read the cards!
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW