Seems odd to use Master of the Pearl Trident over Lord of Atlantis, considering the later could really use a reprint just to get it in the current border. From the looks of it the Goblin deck seems a tad worse. It could have used a Goblin Warchief and Possibly Siege-Gang Commander. At least Warren Instigator got a reprint, finally.
They don't do lords that effect the whole table anymore. Last time was the Time Spiral Slivers for nostalgic and they believe that was a mistake.
As a reprint where the whole idea is to fight goblins and not other merfolk there really wouldn't be any issue with Lord of Atlantis instead.
I find it a little unfortunate that the face card of the Merfolk deck doesn't even care about Merfolk. But at least being a monoblue deck gives it adequate devotion to do *ahem* splashy things.
So, when we inevitably get Elves vs. Merfolk, will they be monocolor as well?
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MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Seems odd to use Master of the Pearl Trident over Lord of Atlantis, considering the later could really use a reprint just to get it in the current border. From the looks of it the Goblin deck seems a tad worse. It could have used a Goblin Warchief and Possibly Siege-Gang Commander. At least Warren Instigator got a reprint, finally.
They don't do lords that effect the whole table anymore. Last time was the Time Spiral Slivers for nostalgic and they believe that was a mistake.
As a reprint where the whole idea is to fight goblins and not other merfolk there really wouldn't be any issue with Lord of Atlantis instead.
Yes but then you have Master of the Pearl Trident which is strictly better and more in line with current design philosophy.
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
But then I saw the Goblin Charbelcher. And to me, that's reason enough to have kept the landbase entirely Mountains. The Blighted Gorges (and - dear god - the Forgotten Caves) aren't good enough to run the risk of having Belcher not-double its damage, when in a deck wherer the only lands are mountains, it would *always* double.
Seems odd to use Master of the Pearl Trident over Lord of Atlantis, considering the later could really use a reprint just to get it in the current border. From the looks of it the Goblin deck seems a tad worse. It could have used a Goblin Warchief and Possibly Siege-Gang Commander. At least Warren Instigator got a reprint, finally.
They don't do lords that effect the whole table anymore. Last time was the Time Spiral Slivers for nostalgic and they believe that was a mistake.
As a reprint where the whole idea is to fight goblins and not other merfolk there really wouldn't be any issue with Lord of Atlantis instead.
Yes but then you have Master of the Pearl Trident which is strictly better and more in line with current design philosophy.
Neither can be strictly better when your opponent is playing Goblins. Also, what does current design philosophy have to do with a reprint?
If they want these cards getting into the hands of newer players (they do), they want said players getting the cards that are templated like newer cards. Lords-that-don't-care-about-control aren't cards they want newer players learning from. Given the choice, they'll print the one that they want players learning is 'normal templating' - the one that only affects "(creatures of subtype) you control".
For everyone saying that they should have included "X" instead of "Y" - I thought the point of these decks was not to have two perfect decks out of the box but instead to get new players a feel for the game in a way that can be played well against each other...
Wasn't the idea always to play with the decks and then begin to modify them with better/more synergistic cards as the owner gets more comfortable? Don't discuss what they should have done for the enfranchised player - you're not their target.
However, the conversation of what cards to add and what cards to replace is a good one for those newer players. So, those comments are excellent but make them with that consideration in mind. To help the newer player learn what should be replaced, not what cards Wizards should've put in the deck for maximum value...
**For reference, in November of 2011, my first experience with this game was going to Card Kingdom (my brother-in-law's local store at the time) and playing the Knights vs. Dragons dual decks out of the box as is. I had no idea what the game actually was and no intention of it becoming a hobby. I was there to spend time with him and bond over his interests. That product did exactly as designed - it got me very interested and I had a lot of fun. I left that day with a fatpack of Innistrad and never looked back.
Avatar by Disappointing Signet Inc
EDH Decks UWB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic's spring of life RUG Animar, Soul of the Elements and friends... lots of them WBG Karador king of two worlds (value and attrition) WRKalemne's Angels BRUG Yidris's Wild Party UWBR Breya's Terrifying Tinker Toys UBRThe Pretender
I'm not going to complain, this probably has the best dollar value off the shelf of any of the last several duel decks. I've skipped the last 2 but I will be picking this one up. Its not awesome but it is good for what you pay for. Good job on this one Wizards.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I get almost every sealed deck set and don't make changes, so I notice little things like how Goblin Diplomats doesn't work in practice, or big things like how whoever goes first has won every game we've played. This is not a complete package.
In general, Merfolk plays more control because of card draw and slightly more powerful spells, while Goblins plays more beatdown due to having burn and needing to sacrifice resources to push through damage. Both are fairly quick, and have lots of evasion and a narrow range of spell effects. This makes for easy-to-understand, fast gameplay. A few on-board abilities and little synergies (like Streambed Aquitects + Cold-Eyed Selkie or Goblin Tunneler + Goblin Rabblemaster) round things out.
I'm seriously surprised we didn't see CurseCatcher in the listing or Silvergill Adept. For that matter the goblin deck looks really weird as they are trying to go wide, yet they put Goblin Charbelcher in the deck? Where is Goblin Lackey?
Also I was expecting to see some stuff from the current standard in the set since they like to push the current sets usually with these things. I'm surprised there is no Metallic Mimic, Rigging Runner, or Vance's Blasting Cannons.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
But then I saw the Goblin Charbelcher. And to me, that's reason enough to have kept the landbase entirely Mountains. The Blighted Gorges (and - dear god - the Forgotten Caves) aren't good enough to run the risk of having Belcher not-double its damage, when in a deck wherer the only lands are mountains, it would *always* double.
So there is an easy way to make the deck better and feel clever about it? Sounds like they accomplished their goal.
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
If they want these cards getting into the hands of newer players (they do), they want said players getting the cards that are templated like newer cards. Lords-that-don't-care-about-control aren't cards they want newer players learning from. Given the choice, they'll print the one that they want players learning is 'normal templating' - the one that only affects "(creatures of subtype) you control".
It's also a decent idea to teach players about past cards as well so they are not confused about things that they have a decent chance of seeing from any Magic Youtube personality or by going to their first Modern event or even in a kitchen table environment. Protection isn't really a thing Magic does anymore and yet the face card uses protection, so if we go by the "normal templating" thing it doesn't exactly fly.
another series of tribal decks with the opportunity to reprint tribal cards that desperately need reprinting, where that opportunity wasn't seized. oh how i miss the days of elspeth v tezzeret and divine v demonic (which wasn't even that great but at least had value)
edit: also if you have to include 3 copies of a mediocre card just to deal with 1 copy of a card in the opposing deck... you dun goofed as a deck designer.
If they want these cards getting into the hands of newer players (they do), they want said players getting the cards that are templated like newer cards. Lords-that-don't-care-about-control aren't cards they want newer players learning from. Given the choice, they'll print the one that they want players learning is 'normal templating' - the one that only affects "(creatures of subtype) you control".
It's also a decent idea to teach players about past cards as well so they are not confused about things that they have a decent chance of seeing from any Magic Youtube personality or by going to their first Modern event or even in a kitchen table environment. Protection isn't really a thing Magic does anymore and yet the face card uses protection, so if we go by the "normal templating" thing it doesn't exactly fly.
Well, Wizards obviously isn't trying to protect new players from outdated templates, but that certainly doesn't make them obligated to reprint cards with them. Duel Decks, despite being a reprint product, aren't targeted at collectors, so it makes sense that Wizards prioritize more recent design over more desired reprints. By the way, retired keywords such as protection aren't quite on the same level as symmetrical lords, and their absence is not a template choice, as opposed to, say, the difference between Spirit Link and Lifelink. Emrakul, the Promised End is proof of that.
If they want these cards getting into the hands of newer players (they do), they want said players getting the cards that are templated like newer cards. Lords-that-don't-care-about-control aren't cards they want newer players learning from. Given the choice, they'll print the one that they want players learning is 'normal templating' - the one that only affects "(creatures of subtype) you control".
It's also a decent idea to teach players about past cards as well so they are not confused about things that they have a decent chance of seeing from any Magic Youtube personality or by going to their first Modern event or even in a kitchen table environment. Protection isn't really a thing Magic does anymore and yet the face card uses protection, so if we go by the "normal templating" thing it doesn't exactly fly.
This last mechanic actually should have an asterisk next to it. Unlike intimidate and landwalk, it's not leaving as much as it's being downgraded. In fact, Magic Origins has one creature in it with protection. Moving forward, protection is moving from what we call evergreen to deciduous. It's a tool in our toolbox that we're allowed to use, but it's not something we expect to use in every set. Think of it as something like hybrid mana—that shows up from time to time in a set that needs it. It isn't, however, something you should expect to see all the time.
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Well, Wizards obviously isn't trying to protect new players from outdated templates, but that certainly doesn't make them obligated to reprint cards with them. Duel Decks, despite being a reprint product, aren't targeted at collectors, so it makes sense that Wizards prioritize more recent design over more desired reprints. By the way, retired keywords such as protection aren't quite on the same level as symmetrical lords, and their absence is not a template choice, as opposed to, say, the difference between Spirit Link and Lifelink. Emrakul, the Promised End is proof of that.
Yes, I understand they've used it on ONE card since saying that it's barely going to be used, but we have two cards that are practically the same, Master of the Pearl Trident and Lord of Atlantis, both clearly work for this product and change nothing about the gameplay for either deck, and yet one could use a reprint far more. We all know DD isn't made for collectors in mind, but why not hit two birds with one stone? The deck stays the same for casuals, but there's something for the collectors or those finding a quick and easy way to find a few cards for a merfolk deck.
This is one of those cases where doing the later would have pleased more people and potentially meant more product being sold, thanks to a card that hasn't seen a modern border printing ever. It just seems strange to not take the chance for something like this, especially when Lord of Atlantis cannot be easily reprinted while Master of the Pearl Trident is a bit easier to reprint.
It's also a decent idea to teach players about past cards as well so they are not confused about things that they have a decent chance of seeing from any Magic Youtube personality or by going to their first Modern event or even in a kitchen table environment. Protection isn't really a thing Magic does anymore and yet the face card uses protection, so if we go by the "normal templating" thing it doesn't exactly fly.
This last mechanic actually should have an asterisk next to it. Unlike intimidate and landwalk, it's not leaving as much as it's being downgraded. In fact, Magic Origins has one creature in it with protection. Moving forward, protection is moving from what we call evergreen to deciduous. It's a tool in our toolbox that we're allowed to use, but it's not something we expect to use in every set. Think of it as something like hybrid mana—that shows up from time to time in a set that needs it. It isn't, however, something you should expect to see all the time.
And I also said "it isn't really a thing anymore" not that it's gone.
Also the decks seen pretty weak in terms of reprints and fun.
I won't debate fun, but weak reprints?
Master of the Pearl Trident $6
Master of Waves $3.50
Merrow Reejeray $4.50
Wake Thrasher $3
Goblin Chieftain $5
Goblin Rabblemaster $3
Krenko $4.50
Warren Instigator $9
8 cards at or above $3 and those 8 totalling $38ish in preannouncement value on a set that will be readily available under $20... is weak?
Excellent point. This Duel Deck probably has more out of the box monetary value than the last half dozen releases of these. I'm not sure what some people expect, a $400 Modern tournament ready Merfolk deck aside another $400 Modern tournament ready Goblin aggro deck for 25 bucks??? This is about as good as its going to get from Wizards. Some of us recognize that.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Yes, I understand they've used it on ONE card since saying that it's barely going to be used, but we have two cards that are practically the same, Master of the Pearl Trident and Lord of Atlantis, both clearly work for this product and change nothing about the gameplay for either deck, and yet one could use a reprint far more. We all know DD isn't made for collectors in mind, but why not hit two birds with one stone? The deck stays the same for casuals, but there's something for the collectors or those finding a quick and easy way to find a few cards for a merfolk deck.
This is one of those cases where doing the later would have pleased more people and potentially meant more product being sold, thanks to a card that hasn't seen a modern border printing ever. It just seems strange to not take the chance for something like this, especially when Lord of Atlantis cannot be easily reprinted while Master of the Pearl Trident is a bit easier to reprint.
For Wizards, like all for-profit companies, pleasing its customers is merely a means to an end to making money. Sure, they could stuff a valuable reprint into a $25 combo pack worth a full 1/3 of its MSRP, but why sell more combo packs when they can make even more money saving it for a Masters product? I've said this to other people hoping for extremely generous "needed" reprints and will say it again: remember who we are dealing with. This company actually has a rather consistent reprint policy, and learning it will let you know what to expect instead of getting up in arms when your high-priced reprint doesn't show up in a product it had no chance of being in.
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As a reprint where the whole idea is to fight goblins and not other merfolk there really wouldn't be any issue with Lord of Atlantis instead.
I find it a little unfortunate that the face card of the Merfolk deck doesn't even care about Merfolk. But at least being a monoblue deck gives it adequate devotion to do *ahem* splashy things.
So, when we inevitably get Elves vs. Merfolk, will they be monocolor as well?
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
Yes but then you have Master of the Pearl Trident which is strictly better and more in line with current design philosophy.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Anything, but nothing at the moment...
Modern:
WUBRGAmulet Titan, WUBRGHuman
WUBRAd Nauseam, WBRGDeath Shadow, UBRGScapeshift, UBRGDredge
WURJeskai Nahiri, WURCheeri0s, WBGCounter Company, WRGBurn, UBRMadcap Moon, BRGJund Midrange
UBTurn,BRGriselbrand Reanimator, WGKnight Company, RGRG Tron, RGRG Ponza, XAffinity, XEldrazi Tron
But then I saw the Goblin Charbelcher. And to me, that's reason enough to have kept the landbase entirely Mountains. The Blighted Gorges (and - dear god - the Forgotten Caves) aren't good enough to run the risk of having Belcher not-double its damage, when in a deck wherer the only lands are mountains, it would *always* double.
Neither can be strictly better when your opponent is playing Goblins. Also, what does current design philosophy have to do with a reprint?
Wasn't the idea always to play with the decks and then begin to modify them with better/more synergistic cards as the owner gets more comfortable? Don't discuss what they should have done for the enfranchised player - you're not their target.
However, the conversation of what cards to add and what cards to replace is a good one for those newer players. So, those comments are excellent but make them with that consideration in mind. To help the newer player learn what should be replaced, not what cards Wizards should've put in the deck for maximum value...
**For reference, in November of 2011, my first experience with this game was going to Card Kingdom (my brother-in-law's local store at the time) and playing the Knights vs. Dragons dual decks out of the box as is. I had no idea what the game actually was and no intention of it becoming a hobby. I was there to spend time with him and bond over his interests. That product did exactly as designed - it got me very interested and I had a lot of fun. I left that day with a fatpack of Innistrad and never looked back.
Snide remarks aside, this is much better than the past few duel decks. Master of the Pearl Trident , Master of Waves , Warren Instigator , Goblin Chieftain, Krenko, Mob Boss and Misdirection are all good includes (and I'm sure I missed one or two modern fish cards) and should appeal to new and old players alike.
EDH Decks
UWB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic's spring of life
RUG Animar, Soul of the Elements and friends... lots of them
WBG Karador king of two worlds (value and attrition)
WRKalemne's Angels
BRUG Yidris's Wild Party
UWBR Breya's Terrifying Tinker Toys
UBR The Pretender
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
In general, Merfolk plays more control because of card draw and slightly more powerful spells, while Goblins plays more beatdown due to having burn and needing to sacrifice resources to push through damage. Both are fairly quick, and have lots of evasion and a narrow range of spell effects. This makes for easy-to-understand, fast gameplay. A few on-board abilities and little synergies (like Streambed Aquitects + Cold-Eyed Selkie or Goblin Tunneler + Goblin Rabblemaster) round things out.
Dunes of Zairo
SHANDALAR
Innistrad - The Darkest Night
~THE RAVNICAN CONSORTIUM~
A Community Set
Commander: Allies & Adversaries
Also I was expecting to see some stuff from the current standard in the set since they like to push the current sets usually with these things. I'm surprised there is no Metallic Mimic, Rigging Runner, or Vance's Blasting Cannons.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
So there is an easy way to make the deck better and feel clever about it? Sounds like they accomplished their goal.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
It's also a decent idea to teach players about past cards as well so they are not confused about things that they have a decent chance of seeing from any Magic Youtube personality or by going to their first Modern event or even in a kitchen table environment. Protection isn't really a thing Magic does anymore and yet the face card uses protection, so if we go by the "normal templating" thing it doesn't exactly fly.
another series of tribal decks with the opportunity to reprint tribal cards that desperately need reprinting, where that opportunity wasn't seized. oh how i miss the days of elspeth v tezzeret and divine v demonic (which wasn't even that great but at least had value)
edit: also if you have to include 3 copies of a mediocre card just to deal with 1 copy of a card in the opposing deck... you dun goofed as a deck designer.
Well, Wizards obviously isn't trying to protect new players from outdated templates, but that certainly doesn't make them obligated to reprint cards with them. Duel Decks, despite being a reprint product, aren't targeted at collectors, so it makes sense that Wizards prioritize more recent design over more desired reprints. By the way, retired keywords such as protection aren't quite on the same level as symmetrical lords, and their absence is not a template choice, as opposed to, say, the difference between Spirit Link and Lifelink. Emrakul, the Promised End is proof of that.
Nope, protection is still a mechanic they can use;
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/evergreen-eggs-ham-2015-06-08
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Yes, I understand they've used it on ONE card since saying that it's barely going to be used, but we have two cards that are practically the same, Master of the Pearl Trident and Lord of Atlantis, both clearly work for this product and change nothing about the gameplay for either deck, and yet one could use a reprint far more. We all know DD isn't made for collectors in mind, but why not hit two birds with one stone? The deck stays the same for casuals, but there's something for the collectors or those finding a quick and easy way to find a few cards for a merfolk deck.
This is one of those cases where doing the later would have pleased more people and potentially meant more product being sold, thanks to a card that hasn't seen a modern border printing ever. It just seems strange to not take the chance for something like this, especially when Lord of Atlantis cannot be easily reprinted while Master of the Pearl Trident is a bit easier to reprint.
And I also said "it isn't really a thing anymore" not that it's gone.
I won't debate fun, but weak reprints?
Master of the Pearl Trident $6
Master of Waves $3.50
Merrow Reejeray $4.50
Wake Thrasher $3
Goblin Chieftain $5
Goblin Rabblemaster $3
Krenko $4.50
Warren Instigator $9
8 cards at or above $3 and those 8 totalling $38ish in preannouncement value on a set that will be readily available under $20... is weak?
Excellent point. This Duel Deck probably has more out of the box monetary value than the last half dozen releases of these. I'm not sure what some people expect, a $400 Modern tournament ready Merfolk deck aside another $400 Modern tournament ready Goblin aggro deck for 25 bucks??? This is about as good as its going to get from Wizards. Some of us recognize that.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
For Wizards, like all for-profit companies, pleasing its customers is merely a means to an end to making money. Sure, they could stuff a valuable reprint into a $25 combo pack worth a full 1/3 of its MSRP, but why sell more combo packs when they can make even more money saving it for a Masters product? I've said this to other people hoping for extremely generous "needed" reprints and will say it again: remember who we are dealing with. This company actually has a rather consistent reprint policy, and learning it will let you know what to expect instead of getting up in arms when your high-priced reprint doesn't show up in a product it had no chance of being in.