That is a terrible reprint that should never have happened for those reasons.
For the masters packs to work we need Wizards to make sure almost every pack is either >5$ or contains good card that is also cheap, such as brainstorm, swords or even pain/check lands etc. You certainly don't want all the value tied up in a couple of cards, especially those whose price is dicated by scarcity alone. When you pull Channel it hurts- but when you look at the rest of the pack and it is full of phantom monsters and skulking ghosts- that is salt in the open wound.
Felt I need to chime in on this one. The monetary value of the cards in the set is not the problem. The problem is that they overpriced the set to begin with and didn't put anything special in the set to make it desirable outside of the monetary value of the contents. Non-foil cards should not be costing people an arm and a leg to get as those are the cards that players need to build decks, where as full arts, special foils, alternate artwork cards, etc, are the cards that make up the bread and butter of a collectible game. Wizards simply has failed to understand this aspect because they got so big they had no one else to compare themselves to. I'm hoping that they get the right message from unstable and start doing some of these things at least once a year in a set. Also WOTC needs to seriously do more than just a cheap foiling job on every single card they have in a set. Mythic foils should be full art and truly spectacular to behold. Foils should also be more like the old style where the entire card has a strong reflective nature outside of the artwork.
I just don't get exited anymore over the next over priced card getting reprinted into an overpriced set.
I get your drift, and am for the most part with you.
I don't think bling versions should be where all the collectable value is-because people get tire of bling and shifting bling cards on is often hard- I have no problem with some non foil cards in eternal formats commanding a reasonable value- which will vary from person to person for what is reasonable, but I would say fetches should be $15 range, and a multi format all star like Chalice a little more. Wasteland is a card I feel is about right price wise for the formats it is in. Fifty-hundred dollar mythics do noone any favors. Two dollar fetches would not be good for the game. The value of the set calculation WOTC do for masters set is too crude a tool to deliver results consistently. The people involved in in sets like that need to include people who work in the secondary market, to avoid damp squibs like Iconic. They can predict the final price points of cards a lot better than WOTC currently do.
Legacy/Vintage is different due to the RL. I have never played Vintage, but I accept that Lotus et al exist and I don't feel I have a right to own a ten dollar one because I need it for a deck.
Explain, plz? Is the game somehow at its ‘best’ when the participant pool is reduced because fundamental building blocks for all competitive decks are priced beyond the casual player?
I, for one, believe the game would be at its best if all players had access to a decent mana base, not just the deepest pocketed ones living off less spendy players playing with that handicap (or not playing competitively at all). Print the fixing lands enough to be in financial reach for all players and not just the big spenders, the market will rebalance around the crux of card value being the cards that actually uniquely define decks and win games rather than the efficient utility of a mana base.
Explain, plz? Is the game somehow at its ‘best’ when the participant pool is reduced because fundamental building blocks for all competitive decks are priced beyond the casual player?
I, fir one, believe the game would be at its best if all players had access to a decent mana base, not just the deepest pocketed ones living off less spendy players playing with that handicap (or not playing competitively at all). Print the fixing lands enough to be in financial reach for all players and not just the big spenders, the market will rebalance around the crux of card value being the cards that actually define decks and win games rather than the efficient utility of a mana base.
Actually, he's completely correct because of what the 2 dollar fetch would imply and it goes back to why WoTC can't downshift their land cycles despite people basically having begged them to do it for ages. The problem is stores that sell singles and players that trade them. Whenever WoTC reprints a card someone loses and someone wins, this is just inevitable and is part of the entire sub game of speculating on when to make a purchase or trade. What WoTC tries to do most of the time is to make sure that the losers don't hate them with a passion of a thousand suns while the winners are running off like they won the lottery.
Lets say Person A is a player that does a lot of trades and has a stacked trade binder. He has an extra playset of Karn Liberated, but needs Scalding Tarn to build a jeskai control. Right now a single Karn is priced at around 70 msrp while a single Tarn is worth around 100 dollars. Him and the person he is trading with decide that the Karns are probably only worth two Tarns because the latter is a land that goes in more builds, so the guy trading the Karns digs through his binder and finds some more things to trade to sweeten the pot. He adds in a couple Chalice of the Void and a Noble Hierarch. They shake hands and make the trade. A month later wizards declares out of the blue they are reprinting all the Zendikar fetch lands at uncommon in the next core set.
Just take a moment to imagine the color melting away from that persons face as he curls into a fetal position in the basement while simultaneously shouting profanities into the sky (lets also pretend that his loved ones haven't called an ambulance assuming that he has come down with some kind of rare and malicious affliction). Now imagine how many modern players are in that position with their cards right about now after the PT.
This is the Kobayashi Maru of Magic the Gathering and the problem that wizards unleashed on themselves by not reprinting these tools in a supportable way. This kind of situation is actually avoidable, but also very hard to get out of once someone has fallen into the pit and is the core reason why cards like Dark Ritual and lightning Bolt were reprinted to death. If someone doesn't keep the cards seeing high percentages of competitive play in print at standard prices the cards roller coaster out of control and their value becomes entangled in a whole lot of political drama.
They have a few ways to deal with the problem:
1) Print and sell the cards directly through their site at a price they set to cap the costs. This will likely flood the market initially and the card will almost always be sold out since WoTC has to pay the printers to make the card. Once the order is done they will likely have to wait until they can prep another run between supplementary products as they only have so many companies that meet their standards (lets not start talking about their standards on printing quality again, please )
2) Print and put the cards into standard sets. This would probably make some of the best selling MtG sets in the history of Magic, but would also probably make standard expensive for the first couple of weeks. As much as this doesn't sound like a problem (and wouldn't have been one in the past), our culture has increasingly been pushed towards pre-ordering and because of this the consumer honeymoon period is now basically two weeks before release, release, and maybe one or two weeks after. People would be complaining about prices to the moon and the resulting dip in pricing after those weeks would be people basically not playing standard. Also those singles sellers would be tearing those booster boxes a new one. I'd be expecting at least a few youtubers making dancing cat videos with dollar bills flying down from the sky.
3) Print the cards in a set that sees print runs more like unstable. So, modest run, possibly small restock print runs that don't get in the way of standard and can still fit in with core sets and whatever else they are producing. This is probably the most ideal way to do it, but no consumer would ever see the booster boxes at 120 msrp post release. Heck, those box prices would go up to 140-150 easily during pre-order season once spoilers are out and probably approach the 200 dollar mark later, maybe even exceeding Innistrad and New Phyrexia boxes. That's assuming scalpers don't ruin it for everyone and buy up the supply to resell at masters prices. On the plus side, distributors would be happy since those pallets would be moving off the shelf faster than they could probably stock them. They might actually push wotc into doing another mid sized wave.
Masters 25 (and any masters set) is basically option 3 except with WoTC saying "I'm just going to beat the market to the punch and put the price up to 240 msrp". This keeps the set from selling out super fast and the prices from dropping into the floor. It also assures they rake in the majority of the profits from the card values. This option also prevents the other major problem with magic: If they reprint a single card with such a high value in a way that tanks that cards value, it causes the prices on whatever they do not reprint that is used with that card to sky-rocket.
Basically, look at all the cards that are used withscalding tarn. To reprint tarn, they'd also have to find a way to reprint those related cards at the same time or the price on those cards becomes much higher.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
That last sentence - that is what I want (for the prices of the spells to *be* higher). Tarn goes down, the likes of Snappy and Clique and Twin and Saheeli adjust up to fill the vacuum, and the net cost to build competitive established decks holds close to stable. But at least people without deep pockets can play multicolor brews. I can’t play a janky Dragonauts deck with a decent manabase because to even have a fair shake manawise, I’d need those same lands the deep pocketed ones happen to use along with Snapcaster. But it’s not worth hundreds of dollars to me to be able to play my jank, so I just don’t play.
I would rather lose to Snapcaster players who pay $200 per Snapcaster and $20 per Tarn than the status quo of $60-$65 for each. I’m more ok with saying ‘I don’t play Snapcaster because it’s too expensive’ than ‘I don’t play the combination of red and blue in the same deck because it’s too expensive’. To me the former should be a luxury. The latter should be accessible to all.
I think the longtime accepted state that budget players must play monocolor decks because multicolor decks are the exclusive domain of the deep pocketed - is a longstanding fundamental flaw. I want specific spells to be the domain of the spenders, and the ability to play multicolor whether you’re playing top dollar cards or budget jank to be a level playing field, largely not a budgetary filter keeping out the rabble, which is what it is right now.
It is true that it will show up in walmarts and targets, but do not expect the prices to drop to the floor like Iconic Masters did. Again, there was more at play with iconic masters that hurt it than is entirely obvious. Right now what will determine the box price on pre-order is if the ban announcement does anything with Jace. I doubt they are going to unban any card, but if they do because they want to make the game exciting again or something that will make pre-orders go into the sky.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Imagine that every card is exactly 1 dollar. Every one from lotus to dark ritual, from tarn to tabernacle.
Now ask yourself how many packs of the next set you would purchase. If the cards are weaker, the answer is none. If they are stronger- lotus for 6 mana- then you buy a box or two. The argument that the pool of players is reduced by cost is always going to be correct, even at every card being a dollar, because some potential players may not want to play 75$ dollars a deck. If everyone could play vintage ad legacy and modern fewer people would play standard. Anecdotally everyone knows a standard player who wants to play modern or a modern player wishing the could shoot Legacy, or a Legacy player who wished they could play power 9 vintage. If they could for 75$ fewer would play the Std train wreck.
If 2 dollar fetches existed, as pointed out above, you simply increase the burden of cost elsewhere, because it is analogous to sticking your fingers in the damn and a new leak springing out.
Wizards cannot win, because a secondary market exists, and their partners in the game run it, and as one card gets cheaper others go up.
I suggested a baseline of 15 dollars for a fetch, which is not beyond most casual players. That could be achieved by a standard set reprint, which is what many on here want more of. I certainly would support mailshots and store promos with the more essential cards too. But 50 dollar legacy decks would only reduce people buying new boosters, even if they got the new booster design correct....
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People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
The store here in Tokyo is selling pre-orders for 24,000 YEN a box which is about US $220 I believe right now due to the exchange rate per box so it's not more expensive than Iconic Masters for pre-order price.
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Imagine that every card is exactly 1 dollar. Every one from lotus to dark ritual, from tarn to tabernacle.
Now ask yourself how many packs of the next set you would purchase. If the cards are weaker, the answer is none. If they are stronger- lotus for 6 mana- then you buy a box or two. The argument that the pool of players is reduced by cost is always going to be correct, even at every card being a dollar, because some potential players may not want to play 75$ dollars a deck. If everyone could play vintage ad legacy and modern fewer people would play standard. Anecdotally everyone knows a standard player who wants to play modern or a modern player wishing the could shoot Legacy, or a Legacy player who wished they could play power 9 vintage. If they could for 75$ fewer would play the Std train wreck.
If 2 dollar fetches existed, as pointed out above, you simply increase the burden of cost elsewhere, because it is analogous to sticking your fingers in the damn and a new leak springing out.
Wizards cannot win, because a secondary market exists, and their partners in the game run it, and as one card gets cheaper others go up.
I suggested a baseline of 15 dollars for a fetch, which is not beyond most casual players. That could be achieved by a standard set reprint, which is what many on here want more of. I certainly would support mailshots and store promos with the more essential cards too. But 50 dollar legacy decks would only reduce people buying new boosters, even if they got the new booster design correct....
Well, lets not get started on the fallacy that if other formats were more affordable people wouldn't play standard. Truth be told it actually doesn't matter much as long as packs are opened and the set is selling. Standard will always exist even if the number of players playing it dwindles, because the cost of standard would also decrease with the lower interest. The trouble Wizards got themselves in is that they think they can price out people and force them to play standard, but as pauper is showing and the constant search for the next cheap tournament format, people will always gravitate towards what they feel is most enjoyable. Forcing people to do something will work only for a short time and in the end will always fail. Heck, this is why Magic in general had such a high attrition rate the last few years: You can't "force" non-pro players to play a format that is dominated by a few decks that are disliked.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
The store here in Tokyo is selling pre-orders for 24,000 YEN a box which is about US $220 I believe right now due to the exchange rate per box so it's not more expensive than Iconic Masters for pre-order price.
I was able to get some boxes at 195 usd per, but there are boxes on pre-order in the states for 183 dollars right now. Since there's no spoilers until probably the beginning of march it's going to be a bit until we get to see what is actually in the set. I definitely wouldn't count on prices holding that low on pre-order once spoiler season is under way.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
[quote from="drmarkb »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/778120-masters-25?comment=108"]
Two dollar fetches would not be good for the game
Basically, look at all the cards that are used withscalding tarn. To reprint tarn, they'd also have to find a way to reprint those related cards at the same time or the price on those cards becomes much higher.
There's a few things with the collector's market:
1. Premium/foil cards
2. Older sets no longer in print
3. Autographs
4. Artist Proofs
5. Original art
6. Alternative art cards
7. Promotional cards
That's a lot of factors that go into those sets. Take a look at the various Commander cards for older cards, the legeldary itself may very well be cheap but the foil and other premium versions are often $10+ dollars over the price of the normal dollar rare. Those are a part of the collectors market and that is fine.
The issue with staples is that crashing Scalding Tarn hardcore would help entry level barriers of the game. It is a core staple to any Izzet deck across all formats. It is time to stop pandering to collectors and embrace that there are just certain cards that should not be at specific prices. I'm unapologetic in this response, because the necessary sacrifices of inherent value of Scalding Tarn in a non premium form allows new players to enter the format and play the decks they want to an extent.
Modern is a fetch/shockland base. The needs of the many, which is having a cheap mana base for new players outweighs the need of the guy who bought up fifteen play sets of Scalding Tarn. When you talk about losses this is in part portfolio theory where people will buy up blue chip cards like Yawgmoth's Will at a cheap end and then resell later for a higher price.
The MTG Finance community has it's own set of problems with buy outs, basically creating artificial scarcity in the market to drive up prices to profit on older cards. This is a commonly well known business practice with all major retailers and investors. Again, I state business practice.
However, not all good practices are good for everyone in the system. There's the tragedy of the commons, where if one person overgrazes a field then other businesses will suffer. Keeping Scalding Tarns radically above all other fetch land prices is good business practice, and smart. However, for Wizards, businesses that run tournaments at the local level, and branding purposes for Modern. This creates dramatic problems, when I float that people get into Modern they balk at the prices of Modern cards.
Modern needs more Modern players always, and the way to fuel that is to fuel cheap staples. I'm a collector as well, and disciplining the market for hard price drops on staples is the way to move the ball forwards. People still sell YGO cards, there are several premium outlets to invest in, and many people who are speculators have many, many, many formats to speculate on.
A healthy Standard and Modern has cheap Tier 1 and Tier 2 decks and that begins with staples. Richard Garfield even stated that staples should cost no more than $20. While I understand that the Reserved List is a mistake and needs to be abolished, it was a promise to collectors. That promise has held. Eventually, I feel that Wizards of the Coast will undermine prices for Staples whenever there is an uptick again in Standard power level.
Conservative design philosophy meeting secondary price conservativism is not a good strategy whenever considering entry level barriers. You can reprint Scalding Tarn to be similar to what happened to shock lands. When RTR came out it crashed the price of all the shock lands, and they still haven't recovered to what they originally were. That's a good thing for everyone, because when people buy up cheap shock lands and fetch lands it means those that it will move other cards as well as people build different decks. That is essential portfolio theory right there as all prices will rise inevitably.
The MTG Finance community doesn't want to lose money, and then there's theories about economics that are different ranges.
The collectors market should be supported with full art land cards, foils, rare foils, special one shot promotions, and so on. I have no issue with the mistake continuing to keep reserved list prices artificially high even. However, I'm not going to advocate for a format that was once very, very popular to become so cost prohibitive that a person has to travel for miles to just play a format that was once playable once or twice a month at your local LGS.
Legacy was at one point a very good format, and many people fought against the Reserved List. Many of us went into Modern for the reason, that the Great Mistake wouldn't be repeated again. Only to find out that the Great Mistake has mutated into new business practices and the common remark "it's too powerful for Standard." New reasons to not reprint cards is just a conservative design response to do nothing.
Faster rotation cycles and all other sorts of gimmicks to try and get me to buy more packs. If you want me to buy more products then make cards I want to play in Standard like Counterspell and Scalding Tarn. If you want me to buy Masters 25, then reprint cards I can use in several different formats and make certain that there's a large array of good commons and uncommons so when I open something I can use it, sell it, or trade it away. If I can get a Masterpiece or a foil card that's great, but I do not like the speculators market and do not wish ever to participate in it, ever.
Having cards shielded from speculators is a key need for price stability for bread and butter staples. If something is a staple, then it will attract the speculator. Speculators need to have discipline, and losing money is good discipline. Market fluctuates teach speculators how to be better speculators. By disciplining the secondary market, WoTC provides that it deals with promises but also not at the expense of itself.
Khans was one of the best all time selling sets, and with that in large thanks to the reprinting of much needed staples into the Standard and Modern card pool. WotC needs to sell packs in order to survive as a company, and willingly restricting what they reprint is not good business sense. It comes down to creating a person who is overly cautious but never doing something. Mewing and wringing hands over a maybe, but then when a smart business sense like reprinting specific staples with specific support and counter measures to the formats is what creates the long necessary buzz towards formats.
Khans was a great set, because it had something for everyone. Khans needs to be repeated every single set with old and new. The game needs young players and to bring back old players. It has to be constantly doing this, and that is done by creating a community of players who act as the front line to guard the community as the welcoming committee.
I can sell a format better when I can sell a community of players to play with than I can if I tell someone to buy and hold a card. Without people that sells the community of players and gives time and friendship to other players, the cards then have no value. More people in seats playing a format moves packs, and it is the need to sell that community. For everyone, no matter their race, color, creed, or gender.
If we're to see an increase in the amount of young players, then they are price conscious about their limited money that competes with many forms of entertainment. The one thing that Magic sells is a community of players that help each other. That is value you don't get from buying cards.
Low level entry barriers on physical cards with good people gets butts in seats. That's the primary goal of Magic is to get people playing. Without that there is no need to talk about the MTG Finance community. Reprinting Juzam Djinn and taking it off of the Reserved List is foolish for obvious reasons ranging from past promises to price stability for investor class. However, there are no promises about $70 Scalding Tarns. Which means that without promises comes the need to drop prices as it is a staple, and the perfect way for WoTC to sell packs in M25 and Dominaria.
The store here in Tokyo is selling pre-orders for 24,000 YEN a box which is about US $220 I believe right now due to the exchange rate per box so it's not more expensive than Iconic Masters for pre-order price.
I was able to get some boxes at 195 usd per, but there are boxes on pre-order in the states for 183 dollars right now. Since there's no spoilers until probably the beginning of march it's going to be a bit until we get to see what is actually in the set. I definitely wouldn't count on prices holding that low on pre-order once spoiler season is under way.
Yeah, I think at $195 per box people should stock up on them, chances are there will be at least 4-5 chase rares, unlike IM which only had Mana Drain as the only expensive/chase rare in the whole set.
Also, Wizards said they will have one card from each of magic's sets printed in the set including Alpha and Beta, so hopefully something good will get reprinted and not blessing or some other such card.
Either way I could care less since I only play standard so I don't intend to buy any boxes or packs of Masters 25 anyways.
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Imagine that every card is exactly 1 dollar. Every one from lotus to dark ritual, from tarn to tabernacle.
Now ask yourself how many packs of the next set you would purchase. If the cards are weaker, the answer is none. If they are stronger- lotus for 6 mana- then you buy a box or two. The argument that the pool of players is reduced by cost is always going to be correct, even at every card being a dollar, because some potential players may not want to play 75$ dollars a deck. If everyone could play vintage ad legacy and modern fewer people would play standard. Anecdotally everyone knows a standard player who wants to play modern or a modern player wishing the could shoot Legacy, or a Legacy player who wished they could play power 9 vintage. If they could for 75$ fewer would play the Std train wreck.
If 2 dollar fetches existed, as pointed out above, you simply increase the burden of cost elsewhere, because it is analogous to sticking your fingers in the damn and a new leak springing out.
Wizards cannot win, because a secondary market exists, and their partners in the game run it, and as one card gets cheaper others go up.
I suggested a baseline of 15 dollars for a fetch, which is not beyond most casual players. That could be achieved by a standard set reprint, which is what many on here want more of. I certainly would support mailshots and store promos with the more essential cards too. But 50 dollar legacy decks would only reduce people buying new boosters, even if they got the new booster design correct....
Why do people buy board games? The resale value for a board game is horrible and collectors keep them in immense collections.
The cheaper the game, the more people will play it. The only problem is that WOTC are pussies and don't dare to make the life of traders hard.
Also, Wizards said they will have one card from each of magic's sets printed in the set including Alpha and Beta, so hopefully something good will get reprinted and not blessing or some other such card.
Either way I could care less since I only play standard so I don't intend to buy any boxes or packs of Masters 25 anyways.
The list of ‘good’ cards from ABUR that aren’t reserved-list is a little slim. Most likely the abur inclusions are common and uncommon utility like Dark Ritual, Counterspell, Lightning Bolt, maybe Swords to Plowshares or Demonic Tutor. Outside shot at Sinkhole again.
Most originally-rares they could put there... we don’t want. People hated pulling Lord of the Pit in IMA. That would be the feeling with almost any reprintable abur rare. The most valuable revised rares they could reprint are Wrath of God and Birds of Paradise. Neither of which is worth the cost of a pack.
Imagine that every card is exactly 1 dollar. Every one from lotus to dark ritual, from tarn to tabernacle.
Now ask yourself how many packs of the next set you would purchase. If the cards are weaker, the answer is none. If they are stronger- lotus for 6 mana- then you buy a box or two. The argument that the pool of players is reduced by cost is always going to be correct, even at every card being a dollar, because some potential players may not want to play 75$ dollars a deck. If everyone could play vintage ad legacy and modern fewer people would play standard. Anecdotally everyone knows a standard player who wants to play modern or a modern player wishing the could shoot Legacy, or a Legacy player who wished they could play power 9 vintage. If they could for 75$ fewer would play the Std train wreck.
If 2 dollar fetches existed, as pointed out above, you simply increase the burden of cost elsewhere, because it is analogous to sticking your fingers in the damn and a new leak springing out.
Wizards cannot win, because a secondary market exists, and their partners in the game run it, and as one card gets cheaper others go up.
I suggested a baseline of 15 dollars for a fetch, which is not beyond most casual players. That could be achieved by a standard set reprint, which is what many on here want more of. I certainly would support mailshots and store promos with the more essential cards too. But 50 dollar legacy decks would only reduce people buying new boosters, even if they got the new booster design correct....
Why do people buy board games? The resale value for a board game is horrible and collectors keep them in immense collections.
The cheaper the game, the more people will play it. The only problem is that WOTC are pussies and don't dare to make the life of traders hard.
The problem with prices on the secondary market is caused by the 1-5% competitive scene and the advertising that goes on around them. Their current support system just doesn't work when an entire team all star pilots a deck to the top 8 at a pro-tour and it takes them a year or more to get the cards from that deck that are in high demand reprinted. Even then, just look at what is going on with Jace the Mind sculptor. That is the price from just the unban speculation: It's going to be way higher than that if it becomes legal in modern. The same can be said of BBE and SFM. All of it is driven by the secondary market and the parent company not capping prices like they should.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Also, Wizards said they will have one card from each of magic's sets printed in the set including Alpha and Beta, so hopefully something good will get reprinted and not blessing or some other such card.
Either way I could care less since I only play standard so I don't intend to buy any boxes or packs of Masters 25 anyways.
The list of ‘good’ cards from ABUR that aren’t reserved-list is a little slim. Most likely the abur inclusions are common and uncommon utility like Dark Ritual, Counterspell, Lightning Bolt, maybe Swords to Plowshares or Demonic Tutor. Outside shot at Sinkhole again.
Most originally-rares they could put there... we don’t want. People hated pulling Lord of the Pit in IMA. That would be the feeling with almost any reprintable abur rare. The most valuable revised rares they could reprint are Wrath of God and Birds of Paradise. Neither of which is worth the cost of a pack.
Psionic Blast, Ice Storm, Earthbind, Regrowth, and Invisibility are all cards from Beta that can see reprint. The reserved list is a travesty that should never have happened because it prevented entire generations of gamers from ever getting to experience a lot of the old classic cards. They can't even reprint Eldamri, lord of leaves, what exactly do they intend to reprint that is truly memorable from Tempest block for the players that care? There better at least a freaking Gerrard's Battle cry in this set. We certainly aren't getting Infernal Tribute or Inner sanctum... maybe Mirri's Guile?
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
A man like me can dream. Also, with a set like Propchecy get a bad rep, makes me believe that Rhystic Study may be getting a reprint too. Both cards I mentioned would be welcome in my personal case.
Why do people buy board games? The resale value for a board game is horrible and collectors keep them in immense collections.
The cheaper the game, the more people will play it. The only problem is that WOTC are pussies and don't dare to make the life of traders hard.
You mean the people who stump up the cash for the advertising and content? As noted above, their partners are the secondary market. That they won't upset them is is not through fear, which I guess is what you imply by calling them "pussies" it is through economic self-interest. They have their self-interest at heart. Not yours, nor mine. Are they doing a poor job- yes, without doubt.
If you go to your LGS the number of people playing CCGs will probably out number those playing cheaper traditional board games, the cheapness of the games don't seem to be the driving factor here in terms of player numbers. Price of the secondary market cards is a huge factor and one they have managed terribly, but they are really up against it, because what benefits one player often hurts another.
Well, lets not get started on the fallacy that if other formats were more affordable people wouldn't play standard.
Under my hypothetical 1 dollar a card system, Standard would actually be more expensive than Legacy long term as every card costs a dollar and rotation means you need new cards. I was inferring that under that system fewer people would play Standard, not no people. They have tried to force people into Standard and it has failed, the huge costs in getting into other formats has been a major factor in keeping people play Standard, not the only factor. Some people actually enjoy a game of midrange mush with broken cards and no answers.
all i want is a new art for lord of atlantis, ive been waiting forever to get these because they are so ugly.....ive been wishing this since modern was introduced...
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Slightly off-topic: I would like to take a moment to thank user Tyrannosaursstomp for the well reasoned, essay-length post. Especially for someone with a grand total of 4 posts on this forum (as of my reading their post), it's really encouraging to see how much thought they put into this discussion. I think this kind of intelligent discourse promotes a healthy community, and I will be more likely to stick around here the more posts of this kind I see. +1
Slightly off-topic: I would like to take a moment to thank user Tyrannosaursstomp for the well reasoned, essay-length post. Especially for someone with a grand total of 4 posts on this forum (as of my reading his post), it's really encouraging to see how much thought they put into this discussion. I think this kind of intelligent discourse promotes a healthy community, and I will be more likely to stick around here the more posts of this kind I see. +1
This, That was a very well-articulated post and he made the great point that Modern staples like Tarn should be reprinted fairly regularly to promote churn of Modern player base. Some leave, some enter and hopefully more stay.
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The "Crazy One", playing casual magic and occasionally dipping his toes into regular play since 1994.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
Anyone else pre-order? I feel kind of lucky I put in that last order for one more box at 172 + tax since it seems everyone is upping their prices.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
If prices are spiking now, when there haven’t been any new reveals in a while... it’s all on the back of... one mythic being unbanned in modern? I’m not one to believe they unbanned it to drive sales, but if the market is showing this kind of dollar-fronting reaction to an unban, I fear they may start to do this deliberately now they they know how easy the market is to manipulate. If they ever do think about unbanning SFM, now it must look like a demonstrably irresistible sales opportunity to line its unban and its masters spoiler up just so...
Slightly off-topic: I would like to take a moment to thank user Tyrannosaursstomp for the well reasoned, essay-length post. Especially for someone with a grand total of 4 posts on this forum (as of my reading his post), it's really encouraging to see how much thought they put into this discussion. I think this kind of intelligent discourse promotes a healthy community, and I will be more likely to stick around here the more posts of this kind I see. +1
This, That was a very well-articulated post and he made the great point that Modern staples like Tarn should be reprinted fairly regularly to promote churn of Modern player base. Some leave, some enter and hopefully more stay.
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Seriously though ****in great, well thought-out, detailed post by a newer user.
I get your drift, and am for the most part with you.
I don't think bling versions should be where all the collectable value is-because people get tire of bling and shifting bling cards on is often hard- I have no problem with some non foil cards in eternal formats commanding a reasonable value- which will vary from person to person for what is reasonable, but I would say fetches should be $15 range, and a multi format all star like Chalice a little more. Wasteland is a card I feel is about right price wise for the formats it is in. Fifty-hundred dollar mythics do noone any favors. Two dollar fetches would not be good for the game. The value of the set calculation WOTC do for masters set is too crude a tool to deliver results consistently. The people involved in in sets like that need to include people who work in the secondary market, to avoid damp squibs like Iconic. They can predict the final price points of cards a lot better than WOTC currently do.
Legacy/Vintage is different due to the RL. I have never played Vintage, but I accept that Lotus et al exist and I don't feel I have a right to own a ten dollar one because I need it for a deck.
Explain, plz? Is the game somehow at its ‘best’ when the participant pool is reduced because fundamental building blocks for all competitive decks are priced beyond the casual player?
I, for one, believe the game would be at its best if all players had access to a decent mana base, not just the deepest pocketed ones living off less spendy players playing with that handicap (or not playing competitively at all). Print the fixing lands enough to be in financial reach for all players and not just the big spenders, the market will rebalance around the crux of card value being the cards that actually uniquely define decks and win games rather than the efficient utility of a mana base.
Actually, he's completely correct because of what the 2 dollar fetch would imply and it goes back to why WoTC can't downshift their land cycles despite people basically having begged them to do it for ages. The problem is stores that sell singles and players that trade them. Whenever WoTC reprints a card someone loses and someone wins, this is just inevitable and is part of the entire sub game of speculating on when to make a purchase or trade. What WoTC tries to do most of the time is to make sure that the losers don't hate them with a passion of a thousand suns while the winners are running off like they won the lottery.
Lets say Person A is a player that does a lot of trades and has a stacked trade binder. He has an extra playset of Karn Liberated, but needs Scalding Tarn to build a jeskai control. Right now a single Karn is priced at around 70 msrp while a single Tarn is worth around 100 dollars. Him and the person he is trading with decide that the Karns are probably only worth two Tarns because the latter is a land that goes in more builds, so the guy trading the Karns digs through his binder and finds some more things to trade to sweeten the pot. He adds in a couple Chalice of the Void and a Noble Hierarch. They shake hands and make the trade. A month later wizards declares out of the blue they are reprinting all the Zendikar fetch lands at uncommon in the next core set.
Just take a moment to imagine the color melting away from that persons face as he curls into a fetal position in the basement while simultaneously shouting profanities into the sky (lets also pretend that his loved ones haven't called an ambulance assuming that he has come down with some kind of rare and malicious affliction). Now imagine how many modern players are in that position with their cards right about now after the PT.
This is the Kobayashi Maru of Magic the Gathering and the problem that wizards unleashed on themselves by not reprinting these tools in a supportable way. This kind of situation is actually avoidable, but also very hard to get out of once someone has fallen into the pit and is the core reason why cards like Dark Ritual and lightning Bolt were reprinted to death. If someone doesn't keep the cards seeing high percentages of competitive play in print at standard prices the cards roller coaster out of control and their value becomes entangled in a whole lot of political drama.
They have a few ways to deal with the problem:
1) Print and sell the cards directly through their site at a price they set to cap the costs. This will likely flood the market initially and the card will almost always be sold out since WoTC has to pay the printers to make the card. Once the order is done they will likely have to wait until they can prep another run between supplementary products as they only have so many companies that meet their standards (lets not start talking about their standards on printing quality again, please )
2) Print and put the cards into standard sets. This would probably make some of the best selling MtG sets in the history of Magic, but would also probably make standard expensive for the first couple of weeks. As much as this doesn't sound like a problem (and wouldn't have been one in the past), our culture has increasingly been pushed towards pre-ordering and because of this the consumer honeymoon period is now basically two weeks before release, release, and maybe one or two weeks after. People would be complaining about prices to the moon and the resulting dip in pricing after those weeks would be people basically not playing standard. Also those singles sellers would be tearing those booster boxes a new one. I'd be expecting at least a few youtubers making dancing cat videos with dollar bills flying down from the sky.
3) Print the cards in a set that sees print runs more like unstable. So, modest run, possibly small restock print runs that don't get in the way of standard and can still fit in with core sets and whatever else they are producing. This is probably the most ideal way to do it, but no consumer would ever see the booster boxes at 120 msrp post release. Heck, those box prices would go up to 140-150 easily during pre-order season once spoilers are out and probably approach the 200 dollar mark later, maybe even exceeding Innistrad and New Phyrexia boxes. That's assuming scalpers don't ruin it for everyone and buy up the supply to resell at masters prices. On the plus side, distributors would be happy since those pallets would be moving off the shelf faster than they could probably stock them. They might actually push wotc into doing another mid sized wave.
Masters 25 (and any masters set) is basically option 3 except with WoTC saying "I'm just going to beat the market to the punch and put the price up to 240 msrp". This keeps the set from selling out super fast and the prices from dropping into the floor. It also assures they rake in the majority of the profits from the card values. This option also prevents the other major problem with magic: If they reprint a single card with such a high value in a way that tanks that cards value, it causes the prices on whatever they do not reprint that is used with that card to sky-rocket.
Basically, look at all the cards that are used with scalding tarn. To reprint tarn, they'd also have to find a way to reprint those related cards at the same time or the price on those cards becomes much higher.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I would rather lose to Snapcaster players who pay $200 per Snapcaster and $20 per Tarn than the status quo of $60-$65 for each. I’m more ok with saying ‘I don’t play Snapcaster because it’s too expensive’ than ‘I don’t play the combination of red and blue in the same deck because it’s too expensive’. To me the former should be a luxury. The latter should be accessible to all.
I think the longtime accepted state that budget players must play monocolor decks because multicolor decks are the exclusive domain of the deep pocketed - is a longstanding fundamental flaw. I want specific spells to be the domain of the spenders, and the ability to play multicolor whether you’re playing top dollar cards or budget jank to be a level playing field, largely not a budgetary filter keeping out the rabble, which is what it is right now.
I was right you Can pre-order the boxes for about the same of pre-orders of iconic masters was
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Now ask yourself how many packs of the next set you would purchase. If the cards are weaker, the answer is none. If they are stronger- lotus for 6 mana- then you buy a box or two. The argument that the pool of players is reduced by cost is always going to be correct, even at every card being a dollar, because some potential players may not want to play 75$ dollars a deck. If everyone could play vintage ad legacy and modern fewer people would play standard. Anecdotally everyone knows a standard player who wants to play modern or a modern player wishing the could shoot Legacy, or a Legacy player who wished they could play power 9 vintage. If they could for 75$ fewer would play the Std train wreck.
If 2 dollar fetches existed, as pointed out above, you simply increase the burden of cost elsewhere, because it is analogous to sticking your fingers in the damn and a new leak springing out.
Wizards cannot win, because a secondary market exists, and their partners in the game run it, and as one card gets cheaper others go up.
I suggested a baseline of 15 dollars for a fetch, which is not beyond most casual players. That could be achieved by a standard set reprint, which is what many on here want more of. I certainly would support mailshots and store promos with the more essential cards too. But 50 dollar legacy decks would only reduce people buying new boosters, even if they got the new booster design correct....
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Well, lets not get started on the fallacy that if other formats were more affordable people wouldn't play standard. Truth be told it actually doesn't matter much as long as packs are opened and the set is selling. Standard will always exist even if the number of players playing it dwindles, because the cost of standard would also decrease with the lower interest. The trouble Wizards got themselves in is that they think they can price out people and force them to play standard, but as pauper is showing and the constant search for the next cheap tournament format, people will always gravitate towards what they feel is most enjoyable. Forcing people to do something will work only for a short time and in the end will always fail. Heck, this is why Magic in general had such a high attrition rate the last few years: You can't "force" non-pro players to play a format that is dominated by a few decks that are disliked.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I was able to get some boxes at 195 usd per, but there are boxes on pre-order in the states for 183 dollars right now. Since there's no spoilers until probably the beginning of march it's going to be a bit until we get to see what is actually in the set. I definitely wouldn't count on prices holding that low on pre-order once spoiler season is under way.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
There's a few things with the collector's market:
1. Premium/foil cards
2. Older sets no longer in print
3. Autographs
4. Artist Proofs
5. Original art
6. Alternative art cards
7. Promotional cards
That's a lot of factors that go into those sets. Take a look at the various Commander cards for older cards, the legeldary itself may very well be cheap but the foil and other premium versions are often $10+ dollars over the price of the normal dollar rare. Those are a part of the collectors market and that is fine.
The issue with staples is that crashing Scalding Tarn hardcore would help entry level barriers of the game. It is a core staple to any Izzet deck across all formats. It is time to stop pandering to collectors and embrace that there are just certain cards that should not be at specific prices. I'm unapologetic in this response, because the necessary sacrifices of inherent value of Scalding Tarn in a non premium form allows new players to enter the format and play the decks they want to an extent.
Modern is a fetch/shockland base. The needs of the many, which is having a cheap mana base for new players outweighs the need of the guy who bought up fifteen play sets of Scalding Tarn. When you talk about losses this is in part portfolio theory where people will buy up blue chip cards like Yawgmoth's Will at a cheap end and then resell later for a higher price.
The MTG Finance community has it's own set of problems with buy outs, basically creating artificial scarcity in the market to drive up prices to profit on older cards. This is a commonly well known business practice with all major retailers and investors. Again, I state business practice.
However, not all good practices are good for everyone in the system. There's the tragedy of the commons, where if one person overgrazes a field then other businesses will suffer. Keeping Scalding Tarns radically above all other fetch land prices is good business practice, and smart. However, for Wizards, businesses that run tournaments at the local level, and branding purposes for Modern. This creates dramatic problems, when I float that people get into Modern they balk at the prices of Modern cards.
Modern needs more Modern players always, and the way to fuel that is to fuel cheap staples. I'm a collector as well, and disciplining the market for hard price drops on staples is the way to move the ball forwards. People still sell YGO cards, there are several premium outlets to invest in, and many people who are speculators have many, many, many formats to speculate on.
A healthy Standard and Modern has cheap Tier 1 and Tier 2 decks and that begins with staples. Richard Garfield even stated that staples should cost no more than $20. While I understand that the Reserved List is a mistake and needs to be abolished, it was a promise to collectors. That promise has held. Eventually, I feel that Wizards of the Coast will undermine prices for Staples whenever there is an uptick again in Standard power level.
Conservative design philosophy meeting secondary price conservativism is not a good strategy whenever considering entry level barriers. You can reprint Scalding Tarn to be similar to what happened to shock lands. When RTR came out it crashed the price of all the shock lands, and they still haven't recovered to what they originally were. That's a good thing for everyone, because when people buy up cheap shock lands and fetch lands it means those that it will move other cards as well as people build different decks. That is essential portfolio theory right there as all prices will rise inevitably.
The MTG Finance community doesn't want to lose money, and then there's theories about economics that are different ranges.
The collectors market should be supported with full art land cards, foils, rare foils, special one shot promotions, and so on. I have no issue with the mistake continuing to keep reserved list prices artificially high even. However, I'm not going to advocate for a format that was once very, very popular to become so cost prohibitive that a person has to travel for miles to just play a format that was once playable once or twice a month at your local LGS.
Legacy was at one point a very good format, and many people fought against the Reserved List. Many of us went into Modern for the reason, that the Great Mistake wouldn't be repeated again. Only to find out that the Great Mistake has mutated into new business practices and the common remark "it's too powerful for Standard." New reasons to not reprint cards is just a conservative design response to do nothing.
Faster rotation cycles and all other sorts of gimmicks to try and get me to buy more packs. If you want me to buy more products then make cards I want to play in Standard like Counterspell and Scalding Tarn. If you want me to buy Masters 25, then reprint cards I can use in several different formats and make certain that there's a large array of good commons and uncommons so when I open something I can use it, sell it, or trade it away. If I can get a Masterpiece or a foil card that's great, but I do not like the speculators market and do not wish ever to participate in it, ever.
Having cards shielded from speculators is a key need for price stability for bread and butter staples. If something is a staple, then it will attract the speculator. Speculators need to have discipline, and losing money is good discipline. Market fluctuates teach speculators how to be better speculators. By disciplining the secondary market, WoTC provides that it deals with promises but also not at the expense of itself.
Khans was one of the best all time selling sets, and with that in large thanks to the reprinting of much needed staples into the Standard and Modern card pool. WotC needs to sell packs in order to survive as a company, and willingly restricting what they reprint is not good business sense. It comes down to creating a person who is overly cautious but never doing something. Mewing and wringing hands over a maybe, but then when a smart business sense like reprinting specific staples with specific support and counter measures to the formats is what creates the long necessary buzz towards formats.
Khans was a great set, because it had something for everyone. Khans needs to be repeated every single set with old and new. The game needs young players and to bring back old players. It has to be constantly doing this, and that is done by creating a community of players who act as the front line to guard the community as the welcoming committee.
I can sell a format better when I can sell a community of players to play with than I can if I tell someone to buy and hold a card. Without people that sells the community of players and gives time and friendship to other players, the cards then have no value. More people in seats playing a format moves packs, and it is the need to sell that community. For everyone, no matter their race, color, creed, or gender.
If we're to see an increase in the amount of young players, then they are price conscious about their limited money that competes with many forms of entertainment. The one thing that Magic sells is a community of players that help each other. That is value you don't get from buying cards.
Low level entry barriers on physical cards with good people gets butts in seats. That's the primary goal of Magic is to get people playing. Without that there is no need to talk about the MTG Finance community. Reprinting Juzam Djinn and taking it off of the Reserved List is foolish for obvious reasons ranging from past promises to price stability for investor class. However, there are no promises about $70 Scalding Tarns. Which means that without promises comes the need to drop prices as it is a staple, and the perfect way for WoTC to sell packs in M25 and Dominaria.
Yeah, I think at $195 per box people should stock up on them, chances are there will be at least 4-5 chase rares, unlike IM which only had Mana Drain as the only expensive/chase rare in the whole set.
Also, Wizards said they will have one card from each of magic's sets printed in the set including Alpha and Beta, so hopefully something good will get reprinted and not blessing or some other such card.
Either way I could care less since I only play standard so I don't intend to buy any boxes or packs of Masters 25 anyways.
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Why do people buy board games? The resale value for a board game is horrible and collectors keep them in immense collections.
The cheaper the game, the more people will play it. The only problem is that WOTC are pussies and don't dare to make the life of traders hard.
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The list of ‘good’ cards from ABUR that aren’t reserved-list is a little slim. Most likely the abur inclusions are common and uncommon utility like Dark Ritual, Counterspell, Lightning Bolt, maybe Swords to Plowshares or Demonic Tutor. Outside shot at Sinkhole again.
Most originally-rares they could put there... we don’t want. People hated pulling Lord of the Pit in IMA. That would be the feeling with almost any reprintable abur rare. The most valuable revised rares they could reprint are Wrath of God and Birds of Paradise. Neither of which is worth the cost of a pack.
The problem with prices on the secondary market is caused by the 1-5% competitive scene and the advertising that goes on around them. Their current support system just doesn't work when an entire team all star pilots a deck to the top 8 at a pro-tour and it takes them a year or more to get the cards from that deck that are in high demand reprinted. Even then, just look at what is going on with Jace the Mind sculptor. That is the price from just the unban speculation: It's going to be way higher than that if it becomes legal in modern. The same can be said of BBE and SFM. All of it is driven by the secondary market and the parent company not capping prices like they should.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Psionic Blast, Ice Storm, Earthbind, Regrowth, and Invisibility are all cards from Beta that can see reprint. The reserved list is a travesty that should never have happened because it prevented entire generations of gamers from ever getting to experience a lot of the old classic cards. They can't even reprint Eldamri, lord of leaves, what exactly do they intend to reprint that is truly memorable from Tempest block for the players that care? There better at least a freaking Gerrard's Battle cry in this set. We certainly aren't getting Infernal Tribute or Inner sanctum... maybe Mirri's Guile?
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Capsize?
A man like me can dream. Also, with a set like Propchecy get a bad rep, makes me believe that Rhystic Study may be getting a reprint too. Both cards I mentioned would be welcome in my personal case.
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From the ABUR-sets I just hope we'll see Lightning Bolt with the original artwork.
You mean the people who stump up the cash for the advertising and content? As noted above, their partners are the secondary market. That they won't upset them is is not through fear, which I guess is what you imply by calling them "pussies" it is through economic self-interest. They have their self-interest at heart. Not yours, nor mine. Are they doing a poor job- yes, without doubt.
If you go to your LGS the number of people playing CCGs will probably out number those playing cheaper traditional board games, the cheapness of the games don't seem to be the driving factor here in terms of player numbers. Price of the secondary market cards is a huge factor and one they have managed terribly, but they are really up against it, because what benefits one player often hurts another.
Under my hypothetical 1 dollar a card system, Standard would actually be more expensive than Legacy long term as every card costs a dollar and rotation means you need new cards. I was inferring that under that system fewer people would play Standard, not no people. They have tried to force people into Standard and it has failed, the huge costs in getting into other formats has been a major factor in keeping people play Standard, not the only factor. Some people actually enjoy a game of midrange mush with broken cards and no answers.
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This, That was a very well-articulated post and he made the great point that Modern staples like Tarn should be reprinted fairly regularly to promote churn of Modern player base. Some leave, some enter and hopefully more stay.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
If prices are spiking now, when there haven’t been any new reveals in a while... it’s all on the back of... one mythic being unbanned in modern? I’m not one to believe they unbanned it to drive sales, but if the market is showing this kind of dollar-fronting reaction to an unban, I fear they may start to do this deliberately now they they know how easy the market is to manipulate. If they ever do think about unbanning SFM, now it must look like a demonstrably irresistible sales opportunity to line its unban and its masters spoiler up just so...
PROMOTE CHURN
Seriously though ****in great, well thought-out, detailed post by a newer user.