If these are real, I'm rather disappointing in O-Kagachi. I was hoping for a 5C spirit commander so I could add an extra couple of colours to my janky Karador deck, but this guy does nothing tribal related at all, which seems to defeat the point of this being a tribal set....
Man, I hate to be a buzzkill here, but I'm not feeling these and I hope they are fake.
O-Kagachi, Vengeful Kami is a five colored creature with a converted mana cost of six (1WUBRG) that doesn't have haste, protection, hexproof or indestructible. It also doesn't have an enter the battlefield ability, a leave the battlefield ability or a static ability. Really pause and think about how bad that is.
Wasitora, Nekoru Queen gets you more value for what you are paying, three colored creature with a converted mana cost of five (2BRG) but it's ability is kind of underwhelming. There are better BRG commanders already available and better dragon commanders.
The Ur-Dragon is obviously the most interesting along with the most powerful. Eminence is a great tribal mechanic and is certainly useful. That being said, The Ur-Dragon is a five colored creature with a converted mana cost of nine (4WUBRG). Nine! Yes, it's really eight because of Eminence, but still, that's a crap ton, especially for a creature with no protection, hexproof, indestructible or haste. No enter or leave the battlefield ability either. The trigger ability is incredibly strong, but I'd much rather be reanimating this than casting it.
O-Kagachi, Vengeful Kami - I am disappointed in this in almost every way. The Books described 0-Kagachi as more of a Hydra than a Dragon. It should at least both Hydra and Dragon as a creature types on it.
Wasitora, Nekoru Queen - I loved her in the Books she showed up in..but JUND? Really? You give folks a Cat Legendary and it isn't Naya? BAD WOTC!
The Ur-Dragon - Eminence is really cool..I just don't know if I would prefer this guy over Scion. My main Commander deck is Scion Legendary Dragons and the toolbox of "Get any of the on hit dragon effects." is hard to give up.
The Ur-Dragon is obviously the most interesting along with the most powerful. Eminence is a great tribal mechanic and is certainly useful. That being said, The Ur-Dragon is a five colored creature with a converted mana cost of nine (4WUBRG). Nine! Yes, it's really eight because of Eminence, but still, that's a crap ton, especially for a creature with no protection, hexproof, indestructible or haste. No enter or leave the battlefield ability either. The trigger ability is incredibly strong, but I'd much rather be reanimating this than casting it.
It's a Mox in the command zone assuming you're playing dragon tribal. That's plenty strong. Then when you finally start flooding out, it draws cards. Mana and card draw. That's what every deck wants.
It's not as strong as Scion, but it sets up a tribal deck better, especially since the tribe is so expensive.
O-Kagachi, Vengeful Kami is a five colored creature with a converted mana cost of six (1WUBRG) that doesn't have haste, protection, hexproof or indestructible. It also doesn't have an enter the battlefield ability, a leave the battlefield ability or a static ability. Really pause and think about how bad that is.
Because O-Kagachi is in his weakened state beacuse his heart was stolen. Which is why he doesn't have protection or indestructible or hexproof. He was kind of the great wall that kept the spirit world and the human world from mingling before Konda screwed everything up. His heart by the way is That Which Was Taken which can grant O-Kagachi indestructible btw.
EDIT:
Wasitora, Nekoru Queen gets you more value for what you are paying, three colored creature with a converted mana cost of five (2BRG) but it's ability is kind of underwhelming. There are better BRG commanders already available and better dragon commanders.
Actually no. There is zero Jund-colored legends outside of Wasitora that force an opponent to sacrifice a creature after being dealt combat damage. There are plenty on the other hand which deal with sacrificing your own permanents in order to create a benefit that either directly or indirectly affects the opponents.
Frankly, I have already given up the hope to EVER see a Wasitora card. If these are fakes, deepest respect to the loremaster involved in their creation.
Now give me Kolo Meha the Bogardan seismic mage and I will just erupt with pure Vorthosian bliss.
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100% Vorthos Spike and Storyline Expert
Former Fact Prospector of the Greek Alliance.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
I was ok with it until the token. that art cannot be real =)
Actually the token art clearly is connected to the card (the kitten dragons have the same bracelet/ring jewelry that is also present in the mommy dragon) - which would be a particular hard thing to fake. Nekoru are an actual intersting thing. O-Kagachi art resembles the original illustration we have of the character, so that is a legit representation of the character.
We have three distinct character concepts that are well established within the lore and two of them come with illustrations that seem particularly well-fitting and elaborate. I'm fine calling this real.
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I like that each of these legendaries has a secondary creature creature type; we've got three Dragon commanders, but we actually also got the five-colored Spirit commander Kami-fans want and a commander for Cats (not white, but white Cat commanders are not hard to come by) and Avatars (which I don't know anyone asked for, but now you can make your Avatar deck with the Avatar of Might cycle, so that's cool).
Emminence is a reasonable ability word which we could have seen sooner.
Overall all three designs are clean and cool (with a flavorful little clause on O-Kagachi showing there went extra thought into this design; AND it's political in multiplayer).
This is delivering on flavor and mechanics - and the pre-Elder Dragonprinces are a cool cycle to include. Neat!
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
O-Kagachi is the only one that looks even the slightest bit questionable to me. This is due to the unnecessary "Vengeful Kami" in his name (just "O-Kagachi" would have been suitable and more ominous-sounding), the fairly underwhelming stats and abilities (he didn't need to cost 6; just 5 would have been fine), and the lack of comma after "At his behest" in the flavor text. The sentence is grammatically awkward as a run-on without any pauses.
But damn if this isn't cool! I figured that Scion of the Ur-Dragon was always going to be the closest thing we got to the Ur-Dragon, but now we've got the actual Ur-Dragon! So awesome.
The problem with defining this format by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
Ik the original storyline i thought the spirit dragons was on the side with the humans? Why is this spirit dragon on the side of the spirits? This makes little sence to me.
I stil belive they are, and hope, they are real. A 1 mana discount would make any dragon deck much more playable in edh, even if the commander never gets cast.
Also there are so many icobic dragon cycles:
Invasion
Original elder dragons
Fate reforges
Khans of tarkir
Kamigava
Yes please
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I have dyslexia, no I am not going to spell check for you, yes you have to live with the horrors of it.
Ik the original storyline i thought the spirit dragons was on the side with the humans? Why is this spirit dragon on the side of the spirits? This makes little sence to me.
The original five Spirit Dragons we knew apparently were - since they were protectors of locations IIRC.
But what they do has no bearing on O-Kagachi who is literally the one the mortals have stolen from to start the war. As you will notice that O-Kagachi is a Dragon is incidental. They are the counterpart to Konda, instigator of the war.
Why make awesome cat dragon tokens and then have them be so irrelevant to gameplay?
If you are attacking people with a gigantic dragon and they don't have any board? How relevant are the cat dragon tokens going to be?
Seems like a peculiar design..
Think multiplayer: You attack one player with a "gigantic dragon" but still have the new token as a blocker against another player.
It is also fodder for dragon broodmother or Hellkite Hatchling or every other dragon with devour.
Where potentially you have few big creatures on the field you don't want to sacrifice them for a small benefit.
Sure. But how often are people without board in multiplayet? I don't play Commander myself, so it might occur more often than I think, but still? And then it's a mechanic that "rewards" you for kicking in the kidneys of the poor sod with no defenses?
O-Kagachi ... The sentence is grammatically awkward as a run-on without any pauses. ...
I'm no native speaker and wonder, do wars often (re)gain something in the English language? That sounds so weird.
The war was waged to do something - whether it is the war itself that does that thing is irrelevant. Compare: "At his behest I went on a journey to find inner peace." It's not the journey that finds inner peace, but me. Analogously, who it is to gain something is not the war, but O-Kagachi (the war being the tool with which it is gained).
You could rearrange the sentence structure like this:
"At his behest, to regain That Which Was Taken, the Kami War began."
I added punctuation since - just as Foam-Dome does - I take issue with the run-on sentence.
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
O-Kagachi ... The sentence is grammatically awkward as a run-on without any pauses. ...
I'm no native speaker and wonder, do wars often (re)gain something in the English language? That sounds so weird.
That's actually a more complicated question than I thought. In this context, "to regain That Which Was Taken" is supposedly the intended result of the war as stated. However, it can also be construed that the Kami War is actually just a byproduct of O-Kagachi's primary intention to reclaim That Which Was Taken.
Which is to say, O-Kagachi only wanted to get That Which Was Taken back, and decided to fight against the humans to regain it, which resulted in the Kami War. But this is sort of disputed by the fact that the flavor text says "At his behest," which implies that O-Kagachi distinctly wanted to begin the war.
Short answer: Yes. A large-scale dispute that is fought over land, wealth, etc. is often considered to be a war for that particular thing.
See: The Battle for Middle-Earth, War for the Planet of the Apes, Battle for Zendikar, etc.
EDIT: Oh, I get what you're saying now. The phrasing makes it sound like the war itself is in the process of regaining That Which Was Taken. It's just another example of ambiguity in the English language.
A better, non-ambiguous wording would be "At O-Kagachi's behest, the Kami War was started so that he could reclaim That Which Was Taken."
The problem with defining this format by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
The ur dragon is definitely they right way to encourage me to play tribal dragons, and I don't even really like them. I also really like wasitora (she's a cat dragon, how awesome is that?!), but it's just one mana less than prossh, skyraider of kher, my absolute jund-edh love so I'm having a hard time seeing her in the command zone. These are all well made, I doubt they're fake.
Very stoked now to see what the other decks and cards do, go tribal!
I'm SO SICK of the "too strong for Standard" argument. It's the new "Dies to removal". We can have a two mana 4/4 with a zillion abilities, but we can't just have Accumulated Knowledge. Makes sense.
No wonder as to why they put Cascading Cataracts in Amonkhet. These have great artwork; I hope the abilities are fake though because they don't seem that strong.
What I'd wish they would do is put Command Tower with different art for each tribe (Tower with Dragons at its peak, etc).
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"The essence of every world, every spell and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
O-Kagachi does seem kind of small but that's probably because the Ur Dragon is freakishly huge. They purposely made smaller commanders in the first commander set to not outshine the 6/6 dragons. It's ability seems pretty balanced alongside Krond the Dawnclad as well. Afterall, they don't want to crimp their design space too badly. Besides, if they made it huge, it would probably cost a ton of mana as well and the link also shows Scion of the Ur Dragon which is only a 4/4 for 5.
Well, if Wizards of the Coast literally wants to spanish inquisition us players they probably succeeded with that dragon deck if it is real. Cats are generally lower CMC and can fill out the low end of the deck while dragons do the high end.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Kasitora says "if the player" but O-Kagachi says "that player". Could just be another grammatical error, but I doubt they would use different wording like that on purpose, which means likely either typo or fake... even if some of these are real, it doesn't seem like they all are.
For whatever reason, they do use this templating apparently. Check Bronze Bombshell
Souldn't the cat dragon token have a color indicator since it's tri-colored?
Quote from 204. Color Indicator »
204.1. The color indicator is printed to the left of the type line directly below the illustration. It consists of a circular symbol filled in with one or more
204.2. An object with a color indicator is each color denoted by that color indicator.
Souldn't the cat dragon token have a color indicator since it's tri-colored?
Quote from 204. Color Indicator »
204.1. The color indicator is printed to the left of the type line directly below the illustration. It consists of a circular symbol filled in with one or more
204.2. An object with a color indicator is each color denoted by that color indicator.
Godsire's token is also the same way, although that was before a few changes to tokens, but there is some precedence in it just being a multicolor frame.
If these are real and there are on averadge 16 new cards for each deck. Then that leaves 13 new cards. Some of them will overlapp, but I am looking forward to 'dragon matters' card
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I have dyslexia, no I am not going to spell check for you, yes you have to live with the horrors of it.
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O-Kagachi, Vengeful Kami is a five colored creature with a converted mana cost of six (1WUBRG) that doesn't have haste, protection, hexproof or indestructible. It also doesn't have an enter the battlefield ability, a leave the battlefield ability or a static ability. Really pause and think about how bad that is.
Wasitora, Nekoru Queen gets you more value for what you are paying, three colored creature with a converted mana cost of five (2BRG) but it's ability is kind of underwhelming. There are better BRG commanders already available and better dragon commanders.
The Ur-Dragon is obviously the most interesting along with the most powerful. Eminence is a great tribal mechanic and is certainly useful. That being said, The Ur-Dragon is a five colored creature with a converted mana cost of nine (4WUBRG). Nine! Yes, it's really eight because of Eminence, but still, that's a crap ton, especially for a creature with no protection, hexproof, indestructible or haste. No enter or leave the battlefield ability either. The trigger ability is incredibly strong, but I'd much rather be reanimating this than casting it.
Thoughts?
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
Wasitora, Nekoru Queen - I loved her in the Books she showed up in..but JUND? Really? You give folks a Cat Legendary and it isn't Naya? BAD WOTC!
The Ur-Dragon - Eminence is really cool..I just don't know if I would prefer this guy over Scion. My main Commander deck is Scion Legendary Dragons and the toolbox of "Get any of the on hit dragon effects." is hard to give up.
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
The Gitrog Monster
Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
Hive World
Atraxa hates fun
Abzan
It's not as strong as Scion, but it sets up a tribal deck better, especially since the tribe is so expensive.
Older Magic as a Board Game: Panglacial Wurm , Mill
EDIT: Actually no. There is zero Jund-colored legends outside of Wasitora that force an opponent to sacrifice a creature after being dealt combat damage. There are plenty on the other hand which deal with sacrificing your own permanents in order to create a benefit that either directly or indirectly affects the opponents.
Frankly, I have already given up the hope to EVER see a Wasitora card. If these are fakes, deepest respect to the loremaster involved in their creation.
Now give me Kolo Meha the Bogardan seismic mage and I will just erupt with pure Vorthosian bliss.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
Actually the token art clearly is connected to the card (the kitten dragons have the same bracelet/ring jewelry that is also present in the mommy dragon) - which would be a particular hard thing to fake. Nekoru are an actual intersting thing. O-Kagachi art resembles the original illustration we have of the character, so that is a legit representation of the character.
We have three distinct character concepts that are well established within the lore and two of them come with illustrations that seem particularly well-fitting and elaborate. I'm fine calling this real.
---
I like that each of these legendaries has a secondary creature creature type; we've got three Dragon commanders, but we actually also got the five-colored Spirit commander Kami-fans want and a commander for Cats (not white, but white Cat commanders are not hard to come by) and Avatars (which I don't know anyone asked for, but now you can make your Avatar deck with the Avatar of Might cycle, so that's cool).
Emminence is a reasonable ability word which we could have seen sooner.
Overall all three designs are clean and cool (with a flavorful little clause on O-Kagachi showing there went extra thought into this design; AND it's political in multiplayer).
This is delivering on flavor and mechanics - and the pre-Elder Dragonprinces are a cool cycle to include. Neat!
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
If you are attacking people with a gigantic dragon and they don't have any board? How relevant are the cat dragon tokens going to be?
Seems like a peculiar design..
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
But damn if this isn't cool! I figured that Scion of the Ur-Dragon was always going to be the closest thing we got to the Ur-Dragon, but now we've got the actual Ur-Dragon! So awesome.
I stil belive they are, and hope, they are real. A 1 mana discount would make any dragon deck much more playable in edh, even if the commander never gets cast.
Also there are so many icobic dragon cycles:
Invasion
Original elder dragons
Fate reforges
Khans of tarkir
Kamigava
Yes please
Think multiplayer: You attack one player with a "gigantic dragon" but still have the new token as a blocker against another player.
The original five Spirit Dragons we knew apparently were - since they were protectors of locations IIRC.
But what they do has no bearing on O-Kagachi who is literally the one the mortals have stolen from to start the war. As you will notice that O-Kagachi is a Dragon is incidental. They are the counterpart to Konda, instigator of the war.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
Give it double strike for double the triggers.
Sure. But how often are people without board in multiplayet? I don't play Commander myself, so it might occur more often than I think, but still? And then it's a mechanic that "rewards" you for kicking in the kidneys of the poor sod with no defenses?
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
The war was waged to do something - whether it is the war itself that does that thing is irrelevant. Compare: "At his behest I went on a journey to find inner peace." It's not the journey that finds inner peace, but me. Analogously, who it is to gain something is not the war, but O-Kagachi (the war being the tool with which it is gained).
You could rearrange the sentence structure like this:
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
That's actually a more complicated question than I thought. In this context, "to regain That Which Was Taken" is supposedly the intended result of the war as stated. However, it can also be construed that the Kami War is actually just a byproduct of O-Kagachi's primary intention to reclaim That Which Was Taken.Which is to say, O-Kagachi only wanted to get That Which Was Taken back, and decided to fight against the humans to regain it, which resulted in the Kami War. But this is sort of disputed by the fact that the flavor text says "At his behest," which implies that O-Kagachi distinctly wanted to begin the war.
Short answer: Yes. A large-scale dispute that is fought over land, wealth, etc. is often considered to be a war for that particular thing.
See: The Battle for Middle-Earth, War for the Planet of the Apes, Battle for Zendikar, etc.
EDIT: Oh, I get what you're saying now. The phrasing makes it sound like the war itself is in the process of regaining That Which Was Taken. It's just another example of ambiguity in the English language.
A better, non-ambiguous wording would be "At O-Kagachi's behest, the Kami War was started so that he could reclaim That Which Was Taken."
Very stoked now to see what the other decks and cards do, go tribal!
What I'd wish they would do is put Command Tower with different art for each tribe (Tower with Dragons at its peak, etc).
For this reason alone, I hope they're fake.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
For whatever reason, they do use this templating apparently. Check Bronze Bombshell
Modern: UB Zombie hunt UB - WR Boros tokens WR - BGW Treefolk tribal BGW
Commander: UR Mizzix, a Storm of spells UR (Decklist)
Godsire's token is also the same way, although that was before a few changes to tokens, but there is some precedence in it just being a multicolor frame.