We're in an age where people can make professional forgeries of MtG cards that take people with heavily established collections to figure out they are fakes. Also, don't forget we had a Nisa leak for Amonkhet that had the correct artwork, but the wrong rules text. It is possible that outcome 1 or 2 is what is going on and to be frank even if they did leak Commander 2017 unintentionally, it brings attention to commander and therefore has some tangential link to the Commander Anthologies collection coming next month. If that is the case then they would have no reason to start complaining on media about the leak since it basically gave them free advertising via this site, reddit, and twitter probably.
Wrong again.
Forgery magic cards are focused on the alpha range (older) and exspensive cards
Two that Nissa card was PDF style and not like taking a photo of the cards on the table. I could tell that Nissa card was fake easily and 5color pointed this out that photo already existed before the leak came out.
Three I find it impossible to believe someone would want to to forge a card coming out soon besides it's a mtg artist on the cards I think that artist would respond if those were fake
Lastly this is exactly the same thing with dusk//dawn leak you people ty to prove it fake because you hate how the card looks or does for this case kagachi should have Ben a 8/8 or 10/10 and have better abilities same thing with the Ur-Dragon
Ps you guys are immensely underrating Ur-dragon, dragons one turn sooner permanently is the biggest atvantage you can get.
The only hope is the abilities being what not what these card say.
Also, don't forget we had a Nisa leak for Amonkhet that had the correct artwork, but the wrong rules text.
The art for Nissas card had been shown and passed through the internet for week. As far as I've seen, all the art is new and not seen before.
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Oh god i hope they are fake. They look really terrible and uninspired.
That probably means they are real.
For some reason now that you mention it, that does sound like the most damning proof they are real. Though I think if they had gone with fairie dragons people might start accusing them of mimicking world of warcraft.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
If they were fakes, I'd have expected WotC to have said so by now.
on that note, I'm surprised at the lack of speculation caused by this quote from a few days ago on the mothership:
"The Daily Magic Update is a roundup of everything Magic you should know on May 25, 2017. Today's Update is brought to you by not acknowledging rumors either way. Which is our policy. You know, in case that was relevant."
Yes, very (purposefully) vague; but I wonder if it was referring to this "leak," as I haven't seen anything else around that this might be referring to.
If they were fakes, I'd have expected WotC to have said so by now.
on that note, I'm surprised at the lack of speculation caused by this quote from a few days ago on the mothership:
"The Daily Magic Update is a roundup of everything Magic you should know on May 25, 2017. Today's Update is brought to you by not acknowledging rumors either way. Which is our policy. You know, in case that was relevant."
Yes, very (purposefully) vague; but I wonder if it was referring to this "leak," as I haven't seen anything else around that this might be referring to.
Hard to know but doesn't confirm it real or fake. Plus it could just be trying to cover it up.
The only real way is announcement day on June they should very well put Commander 2017'in the upcoming sets list if the set symbol doesn't match ones in the leak it's fake.
That was the entire point: not confirming nor denying anything.
My question was, they wouldn't have said that unless it was referring to a specific incident. Veracity is irrelevant, but was it this leak/fake that they were referring to or something else altogether? Not expecting an answer, just wondering. The comment came the morning after the leak, and I haven't seen or heard any other specific incident or rumor that this might have been referring to, and I was surprised at the lack of mention/speculation in regards to the statement.
Sanguivore it would stillinvolve photoshopping it in on the old cards that are on the pictures. From many different angles.
True, you could use photoshop to put the image on there. But my point is that unless they're a timetraveler or psychic, we don't know the set symbol yet, So that's the mostly likely thing to confirm or deny these cards.
Unless Jace or Teferi admit they're the leakers.
1) This could be an intentional leak by wizards in order to do some viral marketing.
2) This is an unintentional leak that wizards is silently cleaning up because they don't want to bring attention to the wrong product. Case in point, where they actively attacked the leak on social media.
3) It's someone being clever and being a troll in the most professional manner possible.
I'm going with either 1 or 3, with a stronger inclination to 3 unless we see spoilers because 1 sounds too smart for wizards marketing department. Especially given how well the standard development has been going the last two years...
This actually begs the question. If a Wizards employee finds a leak, what are the protocols? I would assume report it to Wizards/Hasbro before any response is made, but with all of the social media they need to make sure the response is uniform. Since it was on twitter, and many of the employees there follow the "big" mtg streams, it's likely the default is just stand back and let it happen, and then IT steps in to track it before lawyers take the helm.
If I was a Wizards employee and tracking leaks, I would give out some "preview" cards to a few outlets. Make it especially similar to the final card, but have the art be a bit off or something. That way you know who is leaking if it's a photo. Unfortunately, this leaves distribution without a way to be tracked, but unless Wizards starts doing digital before paper releases, the stores need the cards in advance to sell on time, and there's no good way to track distribution being a leak. And then there's the issue of mock-ups! Honestly, perhaps the best thing Wizards could do is flood the airwaves with fake leaks so that nobody is garnering attention, fake leaks are no longer trusted, and the mothership is once again the best place to find verified card previews.
He's just too small. Look at the art. He's the size of Progenitus. I know that Emrakul can be killed by 15 Squirrels but come on. The scale is all weird, and the whole point of the character, to begin with, was his ridiculous size and army-unmaking capabilities. They got the second part right, but not the first.
And how does that compare to the Theros Gods? O-Kagachi is a world-encompassing spirit in the same way that they are world-encompassing enchantments. In practice, most gods can probably appear however they want.
This is a good point, but the difference is that they're new properties with different kinds of powers in their world, even if powerful. People have been waiting for O-Kagachi for ages, and they've been expecting him to be bigger than this. A part of Magic design is to meet expectations. This just doesn't.
It's a five colour card. It has to be balanced.
Up the power and toughness and it has to cost more to cast.
Well that's not exactly the case. The card as is could be a 10/10 easy. Verduous Gearhulk is an 8/8 for 3GG that can also give out half its power and toughness to a different creature that can attack right now. Kalonian Hydra is an 8/8 by first attack and 16/16 on the second while pumping all your other hydras and other +1/+1 dudes. Outland Colossus and Furyborn Hellkite are pretty easy 12/12s for easier mana. Now, flying+trample does add a bit of power over just trample but not really that much and the ability requires combat damage to a player and that player attacking you last turn to do anything at all. The problem isn't that it would be overpowered as a 10/10 it's that if you make it over 6/6, as a commander, the right choice is to smack the hell out of people with it rather than hold it as a rattlesnake or swing at whoever just attacked you in most cases. A lot of the commander deck commanders could easily be significantly beefier, especially the 4 color ones last year. They wouldn't necessarily lead to more fun gameplay as gigantic beaters though.
The cat dragon is so cute. Reminds of Toothless from How to Train Your Dragon and the Icanhascheeseburger cat and that's a bonus.
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But I don't understand the whole negativity on these cards I love those new ones I would rather use scion's dad as the commander over him, and the only one getting positive feedback is ramo and that's because he's has a massive Ramp ability that can get progenitus out immediately.
Ramos is the only one that looks good because it's strong but also enable interesting and particular builds.
O-kagachi doesn't interact with dragons and spirits. Way to go with the lord of the kami. Doesn't enable very original build either.
The Ur-Dragon is the best but also the worst. It's the only one that encourage you to build a real dragon tribal deck. Yet he is so strong (removal magnet) and so costly that 99% of time you won't ever cast him. And wotc knows it, that's why they gave him that braindead ability where you get an advantage just by having him sitting in the command zone and doing nothing else.
The cat dragon and the token are the main reason people are saying these cards are fake. They look like a stupid joke. And Wasitora is really a dumb boring card. You just have to attack people with no creatures to get tokens, wow. The cat subtype is stupid since this card isn't white. Jund players were stuck with Karthus and Prossh as a "dragon tribal" commander... and now they have this? Wow.
At the end i think these cards are real, but i really hope they are fake.
I understand
Wizards can't make everyone happy
But your not wrong it's a little suspicious that the cat dragon doesn't have white. Although even if it was no cat support abilitys
But really the hate will happen these are very likely real. The only hope is that in June commander 2017 will likely be added to upcoming products page and the set symbol should be reveal and it doesn't match.
But I don't understand the whole negativity on these cards I love those new ones I would rather use scion's dad as the commander over him, and the only one getting positive feedback is ramo and that's because he's has a massive Ramp ability that can get progenitus out immediately.
Ramos is the only one that looks good because it's strong but also enable interesting and particular builds.
O-kagachi doesn't interact with dragons and spirits. Way to go with the lord of the kami. Doesn't enable very original build either.
The Ur-Dragon is the best but also the worst. It's the only one that encourage you to build a real dragon tribal deck. Yet he is so strong (removal magnet) and so costly that 99% of time you won't ever cast him. And wotc knows it, that's why they gave him that braindead ability where you get an advantage just by having him sitting in the command zone and doing nothing else.
The cat dragon and the token are the main reason people are saying these cards are fake. They look like a stupid joke. And Wasitora is really a dumb boring card. You just have to attack people with no creatures to get tokens, wow. The cat subtype is stupid since this card isn't white. Jund players were stuck with Karthus and Prossh as a "dragon tribal" commander... and now they have this? Wow.
At the end i think these cards are real, but i really hope they are fake.
I understand
Wizards can't make everyone happy
But your not wrong it's a little suspicious that the cat dragon doesn't have white. Although even if it was no cat support abilitys
But really the hate will happen these are very likely real. The only hope is that in June commander 2017 will likely be added to upcoming products page and the set symbol should be reveal and it doesn't match.
From what I've read of the creatures (mainly on this site's wiki) is that the Cat Dragon doesn't sound like too white of a creature; that jund sounds like the perfect colors for this obscure character.
The Ur-Dragon is the best but also the worst. It's the only one that encourage you to build a real dragon tribal deck. Yet he is so strong (removal magnet) and so costly that 99% of time you won't ever cast him. And wotc knows it, that's why they gave him that braindead ability where you get an advantage just by having him sitting in the command zone and doing nothing else.
People let me proxy The Ur-Dragon with Scion of the Ur-Dragon yesterday, and I can say you're off in your assessment, but not by as much as I'm about to make it sound.
The Eminence ability, as you note, is amazing. Expensive Dragons start coming in either on curve or under curve. However, getting the attack trigger rolling is not difficult at all and kind of necessary. 1. Being an attack trigger instead of a damage trigger does make a small difference. 2. It's not like the Dragon Tribal doesn't have access to a numberofhasteenablersorgenerichasteenablers. 3. The deck's going to ramp into The Ur-Dragon anyway because even with the eminence ability, there's a lot of mid-to-high range dragons along with color-fixing that also doubles as ramp needed to drop early dragons even earlier. 4. The Ur-Dragon helps mitigate over-extending.
Do I think The Ur-Dragon will be able to go toe-to-toe with Arcum Dagsson? No. But I think people are underestimating the power this (alleged) leaked commander brings dragon tribal.
But I don't understand the whole negativity on these cards I love those new ones I would rather use scion's dad as the commander over him, and the only one getting positive feedback is ramo and that's because he's has a massive Ramp ability that can get progenitus out immediately.
The Ur-Dragon is the best but also the worst. It's the only one that encourage you to build a real dragon tribal deck. Yet he is so strong (removal magnet) and so costly that 99% of time you won't ever cast him. And wotc knows it, that's why they gave him that braindead ability where you get an advantage just by having him sitting in the command zone and doing nothing else.
People let me proxy The Ur-Dragon with Scion of the Ur-Dragon yesterday, and you're off in your assessment, but not by as much as I'm about to make it sound.
The Eminence ability, as you note, is amazing. Expensive Dragons start coming in either on curve or under curve. However, getting his attack trigger rolling is not difficult at all and kind of necessary. 1. Being an attack trigger instead of a damage trigger does make a small difference. 2. It's not like the Dragon Tribal doesn't have access to a numberofhasteenablersorgenerichasteenablers. 3. The deck's going to ramp into The Ur-Dragon anyway because even without the eminence ability, there's a lot of mid-to-high range dragons along with color-fixing that also doubles as ramp needed to drop early dragons even earlier. 4. The Ur-Dragon helps mitigate over-extending.
Do I think The Ur-Dragon will be able to go toe-to-toe with Arcum Dagsson? No. But I think people are underestimating the power this (alleged) leaked commander brings dragon tribal.
I'm not dragons 1 turn sooner is more amazing than we think.
Plus there's also the mana rocks for dragons and Ramos is the one to get ur-dragon out. we may be loosing tutor for discount but atleast you don't need a butt load of recursion in the deck.
He's just too small. Look at the art. He's the size of Progenitus. I know that Emrakul can be killed by 15 Squirrels but come on. The scale is all weird, and the whole point of the character, to begin with, was his ridiculous size and army-unmaking capabilities. They got the second part right, but not the first.
And how does that compare to the Theros Gods? O-Kagachi is a world-encompassing spirit in the same way that they are world-encompassing enchantments. In practice, most gods can probably appear however they want.
This is a good point, but the difference is that they're new properties with different kinds of powers in their world, even if powerful. People have been waiting for O-Kagachi for ages, and they've been expecting him to be bigger than this. A part of Magic design is to meet expectations. This just doesn't.
It's a five colour card. It has to be balanced.
Up the power and toughness and it has to cost more to cast.
This isn't a counter-argument. I want it to be larger and cost more.
And Wasitora is really a dumb boring card. You just have to attack people with no creatures to get tokens, wow.
The tokens are just icing. That way, you still get something even if your opponent has no creatures, or if they sac their last guy in response to being unable to block.
It's also worth noting that just because someone doesn't have any creatures, doesn't mean that they're defenceless, nor does it mean they aren't winning.
The cat subtype is stupid since this card isn't white.
Wasitora isn't there to be a cat commander, she's there to give a card to a pre-existing character. A character that was literally a cat/dragon hybrid. Not making her a cat would be like not making O-Kagachi a spirit.
I will say if that I'm hoping they got better cards to spoil later, though, because C17 is going to have one heck of a time beating C16 if that is the best it is bringing to the table.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
The cat dragon and the token are the main reason people are saying these cards are fake. They look like a stupid joke. And Wasitora is really a dumb boring card. You just have to attack people with no creatures to get tokens, wow. The cat subtype is stupid since this card isn't white. Jund players were stuck with Karthus and Prossh as a "dragon tribal" commander... and now they have this? Wow.
I'll admit the token looks a bit too cute, but I disagree with all of your other arguments.
How is Wasitora dumb and boring? It's aggro/control that allows you to be aggressive and force sacrifices. The token ability is just a safety in case you've gotten rid of all their other creatures.
The cat subtype is awesome because it isn't white! Cats have been printed in all five colors, but of their 10 legendary creatures, 6 are white (one being white-blue), two are green, two are black. I say it's about time we get another non-white legend. And it isn't just a legendary cat, it's a cat dragon, so Jund seems perfect (or is it Purrfect?).
I'm excited for these cards and hope they are real (especially Ramos, but the others, too).
Ur-Dragon feels like an MTGCardsmith card. Like, yeah the card is absurdly over the top in almost every way but that includes its mana cost. Good luck getting it onto the field...Except for the part where its fine not being on the field. The part that's basically the best part.
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Wrong again.
Forgery magic cards are focused on the alpha range (older) and exspensive cards
Two that Nissa card was PDF style and not like taking a photo of the cards on the table. I could tell that Nissa card was fake easily and 5color pointed this out that photo already existed before the leak came out.
Three I find it impossible to believe someone would want to to forge a card coming out soon besides it's a mtg artist on the cards I think that artist would respond if those were fake
Lastly this is exactly the same thing with dusk//dawn leak you people ty to prove it fake because you hate how the card looks or does for this case kagachi should have Ben a 8/8 or 10/10 and have better abilities same thing with the Ur-Dragon
Ps you guys are immensely underrating Ur-dragon, dragons one turn sooner permanently is the biggest atvantage you can get.
The only hope is the abilities being what not what these card say.
The art for Nissas card had been shown and passed through the internet for week. As far as I've seen, all the art is new and not seen before.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
For some reason now that you mention it, that does sound like the most damning proof they are real. Though I think if they had gone with fairie dragons people might start accusing them of mimicking world of warcraft.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
https://www.mtgstocks.com/prints/10512
Because of the leaks Zirilan of the Claw went from $3 to $14
on that note, I'm surprised at the lack of speculation caused by this quote from a few days ago on the mothership:
"The Daily Magic Update is a roundup of everything Magic you should know on May 25, 2017. Today's Update is brought to you by not acknowledging rumors either way. Which is our policy. You know, in case that was relevant."
Yes, very (purposefully) vague; but I wonder if it was referring to this "leak," as I haven't seen anything else around that this might be referring to.
Hard to know but doesn't confirm it real or fake. Plus it could just be trying to cover it up.
The only real way is announcement day on June they should very well put Commander 2017'in the upcoming sets list if the set symbol doesn't match ones in the leak it's fake.
My question was, they wouldn't have said that unless it was referring to a specific incident. Veracity is irrelevant, but was it this leak/fake that they were referring to or something else altogether? Not expecting an answer, just wondering. The comment came the morning after the leak, and I haven't seen or heard any other specific incident or rumor that this might have been referring to, and I was surprised at the lack of mention/speculation in regards to the statement.
True, you could use photoshop to put the image on there. But my point is that unless they're a timetraveler or psychic, we don't know the set symbol yet, So that's the mostly likely thing to confirm or deny these cards.
Unless Jace or Teferi admit they're the leakers.
This actually begs the question. If a Wizards employee finds a leak, what are the protocols? I would assume report it to Wizards/Hasbro before any response is made, but with all of the social media they need to make sure the response is uniform. Since it was on twitter, and many of the employees there follow the "big" mtg streams, it's likely the default is just stand back and let it happen, and then IT steps in to track it before lawyers take the helm.
If I was a Wizards employee and tracking leaks, I would give out some "preview" cards to a few outlets. Make it especially similar to the final card, but have the art be a bit off or something. That way you know who is leaking if it's a photo. Unfortunately, this leaves distribution without a way to be tracked, but unless Wizards starts doing digital before paper releases, the stores need the cards in advance to sell on time, and there's no good way to track distribution being a leak. And then there's the issue of mock-ups! Honestly, perhaps the best thing Wizards could do is flood the airwaves with fake leaks so that nobody is garnering attention, fake leaks are no longer trusted, and the mothership is once again the best place to find verified card previews.
Cult of the Succubi Eating Kitten and Brotherhood of Hamsters - Zombie One/Hulking One - Brotherhood of Hamsters disapproves of Damage on the Stack amputation, the corruption of Mythics,
and the "Major changes to Extended" in July 2010. You aborted our cards., but we approve of the Modern format. Even if it doesn't ha ve Carrion Feeder or Caller of the Claw in it.Dex: http://deckbox.org/users/Egementium_instructoid
BURWGSliver Hivelord's alt wincon deck at Maze's EndBURWG
GWBSidar Kondo and Ikra Shidiq likes big butts
RUMizzix of the Izmagnus Super ThiefRU
BURWGGeneral Tazri, The Megazord AllyBURWG
BURJeleva Mill and Kill BUR
BRGrenzo's get out from under that deck!BR
WUG Roon's Enchanted Evening (enchantment deck) WUG
BUG The Undersea World of Tasigur CousteauBUG
BWGAnafenza, Counter QueenBWG
I understand
Wizards can't make everyone happy
But your not wrong it's a little suspicious that the cat dragon doesn't have white. Although even if it was no cat support abilitys
But really the hate will happen these are very likely real. The only hope is that in June commander 2017 will likely be added to upcoming products page and the set symbol should be reveal and it doesn't match.
From what I've read of the creatures (mainly on this site's wiki) is that the Cat Dragon doesn't sound like too white of a creature; that jund sounds like the perfect colors for this obscure character.
People let me proxy The Ur-Dragon with Scion of the Ur-Dragon yesterday, and I can say you're off in your assessment, but not by as much as I'm about to make it sound.
The Eminence ability, as you note, is amazing. Expensive Dragons start coming in either on curve or under curve. However, getting the attack trigger rolling is not difficult at all and kind of necessary. 1. Being an attack trigger instead of a damage trigger does make a small difference. 2. It's not like the Dragon Tribal doesn't have access to a number of haste enablers or generic haste enablers. 3. The deck's going to ramp into The Ur-Dragon anyway because even with the eminence ability, there's a lot of mid-to-high range dragons along with color-fixing that also doubles as ramp needed to drop early dragons even earlier. 4. The Ur-Dragon helps mitigate over-extending.
Do I think The Ur-Dragon will be able to go toe-to-toe with Arcum Dagsson? No. But I think people are underestimating the power this (alleged) leaked commander brings dragon tribal.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~
I'm not dragons 1 turn sooner is more amazing than we think.
Plus there's also the mana rocks for dragons and Ramos is the one to get ur-dragon out. we may be loosing tutor for discount but atleast you don't need a butt load of recursion in the deck.
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This isn't a counter-argument. I want it to be larger and cost more.
It's also worth noting that just because someone doesn't have any creatures, doesn't mean that they're defenceless, nor does it mean they aren't winning.
Wasitora isn't there to be a cat commander, she's there to give a card to a pre-existing character. A character that was literally a cat/dragon hybrid. Not making her a cat would be like not making O-Kagachi a spirit.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
You, sir, are a cat racist.
(and feral cats form colonies, so there is indeed some W there)
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
How is Wasitora dumb and boring? It's aggro/control that allows you to be aggressive and force sacrifices. The token ability is just a safety in case you've gotten rid of all their other creatures.
The cat subtype is awesome because it isn't white! Cats have been printed in all five colors, but of their 10 legendary creatures, 6 are white (one being white-blue), two are green, two are black. I say it's about time we get another non-white legend. And it isn't just a legendary cat, it's a cat dragon, so Jund seems perfect (or is it Purrfect?).
I'm excited for these cards and hope they are real (especially Ramos, but the others, too).
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