I didn't see a thread for this despit it being posted on the site hours ago.
So MTGO is getting a banlist geared more towards 1v1 play since it's much more common on MTGO. There's a ton of stuff different, so I'd go take a look.
Mixed feelings on this, but I'll avoid editorializing in the OP.
Also, they're adding commander 2-man queues and friendly 1v1 leagues.
Update: there will now be two banlists, a 1v1 and a multiplayer. The multiplayer banlist will match the Paper Commander banlist
Woo-freaking-hoo!!! I love the BL, I'm sure there are a few solid omissions, but overall it should drive casual play. Finally, instead of 2-3 turns of "who drew the fast mana first" I can probably finally enjoy a lengthy game of 1v1.
Okay, they kinda respect the authority of the comitee over paper Commander by applying this only to Magic Online, but at the same time the removal of fast mana in the form of Sol Ring is a clear stance that will just nudge and prod the outside party with some indirect pressure. I cannot help but wonder whether this online banlist will also influence their decisions regarding inclusion of cards into pape products - so while a card might not be banned in paper it might be less desirable to reprint.
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
Okay, they kinda respect the authority of the comitee over paper Commander by applying this only to Magic Online, but at the same time the removal of fast mana in the form of Sol Ring is a clear stance that will just nudge and prod the outside party with some indirect pressure. I cannot help but wonder whether this online banlist will also influence their decisions regarding inclusion of cards into pape products - so while a card might not be banned in paper it might be less desirable to reprint.
This is about 1v1, not multiplayer. Sol ring is already banned in 1v1 commander (if youre going by the french banned list, and you should be) i wouldnt get your hopes up that you'll see the cards banned here added to the multiplayer banned list because its an entirely different beast
Is Edric really that oppressive as a commander in 1v1?
Holy cow, yes he is lol. He's like a draw spell on steroids, stapled to a "go wide" aggro win. However, I'm surprised that Leoveld, emissary of trest didn't make the list. He's far and away more oppressive than Edric.
Is Edric really that oppressive as a commander in 1v1?
Holy cow, yes he is lol. He's like a draw spell on steroids, stapled to a "go wide" aggro win. However, I'm surprised that Leoveld, emissary of trest didn't make the list. He's far and away more oppressive than Edric.
I believe he is currently unavailable online, due to Conspiracy: Take The Crown Not being released on MTGO.
Is Edric really that oppressive as a commander in 1v1?
Holy cow, yes he is lol. He's like a draw spell on steroids, stapled to a "go wide" aggro win. However, I'm surprised that Leoveld, emissary of trest didn't make the list. He's far and away more oppressive than Edric.
I was surprised as well. I imagine the list might have been finalized before the Leovold Ban/Hulk Unban, and they figured that they'd rather see how it goes before changing up their list. Wouldn't mind seeing a "banned as a commander" for MTGO only; you can't mess it up when you're playing electronically.
(EDIT: Though, I would NOT be surprised if MTGO wouldn't require 1,000 hours of coding to add the "banned as a commander" functionality lol. Did it have it before? I honestly don't know.)
Overall, I like this. The difference between paper and online EDH truly is vast. For people who want to play 1v1 for tix, they now have that option. For people who don't want to play for tix, they have that option with their jankier decks as well.
Conspiracy Theorists will Conspiracy Theorize, but I doubt Rule Commander will become subservient very soon. They're just such difference formats; in paper you can be like "dude don't play that deck again," or (one of my friends loves his Teysa, Orzhov Scion deck) "dude just take out Darkest Hour." You can't do that on MTGO, so I really think differing ban philosophies are both understandable AND a good idea. I imagine some of the more powerful tutors might be the first addition to this list, but perhaps not.
This is about 1v1, not multiplayer. Sol ring is already banned in 1v1 commander (if youre going by the french banned list, and you should be) i wouldnt get your hopes up that you'll see the cards banned here added to the multiplayer banned list because its an entirely different beast
I was under the impression that WotC will apply the 1v1 banlist universally on Magic Online even if one chooses to play Commander in multiplayer (if that is still possible) - though that might be a lack of reading comprehension on my part. I will admit that I didn't double-check whether that is contradicted in the article.
I'm also not saying that they will apply the banlist to multiplayer, but suggest that they might take it into account indirectly when making Commander product - prefering cards that are on neither banlist over cards that would be fine in paper multiplayer, but are banned in online 1v1. A chilling effect of sorts.
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
Is Edric really that oppressive as a commander in 1v1?
Holy cow, yes he is lol. He's like a draw spell on steroids, stapled to a "go wide" aggro win. However, I'm surprised that Leoveld, emissary of trest didn't make the list. He's far and away more oppressive than Edric.
I believe he is currently unavailable online, due to Conspiracy: Take The Crown Not being released on MTGO.
He is available online.
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snapcaster mage
3 horizon canopy
2 full art damnation
Positive that there will be more online presence & events. Arguably their chosen list is fine too, as a starting point.
Huge problem now though, with people thinking the official wizards' banlist for commander applies to paper (and why wouldn't they. It's directly from the people who make the game!)
Not looking forward to all the arguments and confusion this causes when someone turns up with an emrakul deck or whatever other insert contentious card here.
Wizards may have had their hearts in the right place but they've inadvertently screwed the 'unofficial actual' commander banlist over completely. What newer players will go to a random third party forum to find the commander rules if it's on wizards' own site? Basically no-one, that's who.
You'll have newer eager players going off the mtgo banlist and stuffy "old guard" players getting their banlist updates from some random guy's third party forum. Not an ideal situation. Eventually the mtgo list will take over completely.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
I think the thing that makes me most irritated is the banned list applying to both. They literally stated that the other ban list didn't work well because it was suited to multiplayer, so they're making a 1v1 list that... applies to both.
The preconstructed decks they sell are now unplayable out of box, because they've always had Sol Ring. How is that going to affect paper product? Are the new paper decks going to be altered because of this ban list?
I have always wished that SOMEBODY of relevance would one day create a banlist which applies to both 1v1 and multi. I hope the rules committee adopts this concept even if some changes are needed.
I'm cool with that. I kind of think the third party ban list is a bad joke. That sol ring, mana vault, and mana crypt have skated since inception is horrifically moronic, <snip> totally uncalled for The idiotic chaff that's on the third party ban list (which I don't understand why it even exists in the first place, if you're gonna play a casual format for fun, make your own banlist for it among your play group) makes me giggle. Wotc's banlist actually makes since, and if you're going to play in an mtgo sanctioned tournament where you win stuff (YES!), then WOTC should be the one to make the banlist.
I'd also welcome a banlist for paper commander events, as again, going to a wotc sanctioned fnm commander event where the banlist is designed by a third party is stupid beyond logical comprehension.
I'm cool with that. I kind of think the third party ban list is a bad joke. That sol ring, mana vault, and mana crypt have skated since inception is horrifically moronic, and their ban list decisions seem to be as tempermental and random as a girl on her first period. The idiotic chaff that's on the third party ban list (which I don't understand why it even exists in the first place, if you're gonna play a casual format for fun, make your own banlist for it among your play group) makes me giggle. Wotc's banlist actually makes since, and if you're going to play in an mtgo sanctioned tournament where you win stuff (YES!), then WOTC should be the one to make the banlist.
I'd also welcome a banlist for paper commander events, as again, going to a wotc sanctioned fnm commander event where the banlist is designed by a third party is stupid beyond logical comprehension.
There isn't particularly an issue with wizards managing the banlist in theory. it makes sense if it's a format supported and printed by them.
except there's a few things that aren't right about the current situation though:
1) we know (not guess, know) that wizards doesn't test "older formats" very much when designing new product, and this applies to commander as much as it applies to legacy or modern. Commander has always been a community driven format, and they put in the hours to maintain a banlist that was fun for the majority. I can't see wizards employees being able to put in nearly as much time or motivation into managing what is effectively a casual format. it just isn't going to happen.
2) by releasing their own official banlist, they have de facto taken control of the format, as newer players will find the official wizards' banlist and ignore the one that seasoned players are using. whether or not one list is better than the other is irrelevant, because the problem is one of confusion. which banlist do you use? what if you go somewhere and they are using the official one, and you're using the third party one like old traditional EDH player that you are, lol? it will lead to arguments and issues that don't need to happen.
if they'd just come out and said "yeah guys, apologies for furore, but we're just going to release an official commander banlist starting from now, everyone has to use it in all sanctioned events from now on" that would actually be fine. no ambiguity, it makes sense. sure, a few people would rock the apple cart and get upset but they'd deal with it. Instead, we get this weird "only online" thing but at the same time they introduce this huge elephant in the room that's an actual, official wizards banlist, meaning many people - new or old players, will start using this list even in paper, causing ambiguity and a rift in the format when there didn't need to be one.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
If you read the article, you'd know better. It's totally seaprate from paper product and totally separate from paper banlists. What the people behind paper do is only their own doing.
If you read the whole thread you will find arguments why this could easily influence paper despite not intended to affect it.
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
If you read the whole thread you will find arguments why this could easily influence paper despite not intended to affect it.
The Duel Commander Commitee has already announced they would not follow Wizard's banlist, for it excludes too many broken cards (and still some dangerous commanders) and is not adapted to competitive or casual 20HP.
I don't believe the 30HP commitee hasn't spoken about it yet.
What is weird though is WotC saying they will ban things based on negative player experience but leaving things like Mine + Crucible or Instant Tutor + Any Geddon effect in their format in the first place. Don't really understand that.
The preconstructed decks they sell are now unplayable out of box, because they've always had Sol Ring. How is that going to affect paper product? Are the new paper decks going to be altered because of this ban list?
If you read the article, you'd know better. It's totally seaprate from paper product and totally separate from paper banlists. What the people behind paper do is only their own doing.
It's very likely though, that a new player to commander will search "commander banlist" on Google. Which list will they go by? The one on wizards' website or the one on some random forum?
The answer is obvious; this move will create unnecessary confusion in paper despite their intentions.
It would have been better for them to just take over the whole thing and maybe upset a few people but remove any ambiguity. In an ideal world they could have at least consulted the people who maintain the paper banlist (recently confirmed that they were not consulted at all).
Right? The current list may be good/bad/whatever but it doesn't really matter. The issue is confusion.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
All the rumblings over this are just growing pains. Confusion and anger will follow any change in the status quo, but Wizards -finally- listening to the community about the inefficacy of the RC is an objectively good thing.
That said, their banlist is incomplete and their approach is half-hearted, but I'm sure that's because they're trying to avoid stepping on more toes than they have to. I await the inevitable and glorious announcement a year or two from now that WotC is taking full control of EDH as a format.
I for one (I am unsure if there are others who would agree with me) would follow a single, comprehensive banlist which accommodates the needs of both commander formats. Sometimes I wish that the powers that be would just combine both lists and be done with it.
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I didn't see a thread for this despit it being posted on the site hours ago.
So MTGO is getting a banlist geared more towards 1v1 play since it's much more common on MTGO. There's a ton of stuff different, so I'd go take a look.
Mixed feelings on this, but I'll avoid editorializing in the OP.
Also, they're adding commander 2-man queues and friendly 1v1 leagues.
Update: there will now be two banlists, a 1v1 and a multiplayer. The multiplayer banlist will match the Paper Commander banlist
http://wizardsmtgo.tumblr.com/post/160343614814/update-mtgo-commander
Generals meant to be drafted first in a single pack of 6 cards.
And here is the actual cube, meant to be drafted in 4 regular sized packs. (60 card decks)
There's no evidence of that a present, aside from conspiracy theories. This doesn't affect paper EDH at all.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
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This is about 1v1, not multiplayer. Sol ring is already banned in 1v1 commander (if youre going by the french banned list, and you should be) i wouldnt get your hopes up that you'll see the cards banned here added to the multiplayer banned list because its an entirely different beast
Holy cow, yes he is lol. He's like a draw spell on steroids, stapled to a "go wide" aggro win. However, I'm surprised that Leoveld, emissary of trest didn't make the list. He's far and away more oppressive than Edric.
I was surprised as well. I imagine the list might have been finalized before the Leovold Ban/Hulk Unban, and they figured that they'd rather see how it goes before changing up their list. Wouldn't mind seeing a "banned as a commander" for MTGO only; you can't mess it up when you're playing electronically.
(EDIT: Though, I would NOT be surprised if MTGO wouldn't require 1,000 hours of coding to add the "banned as a commander" functionality lol. Did it have it before? I honestly don't know.)
Overall, I like this. The difference between paper and online EDH truly is vast. For people who want to play 1v1 for tix, they now have that option. For people who don't want to play for tix, they have that option with their jankier decks as well.
Conspiracy Theorists will Conspiracy Theorize, but I doubt Rule Commander will become subservient very soon. They're just such difference formats; in paper you can be like "dude don't play that deck again," or (one of my friends loves his Teysa, Orzhov Scion deck) "dude just take out Darkest Hour." You can't do that on MTGO, so I really think differing ban philosophies are both understandable AND a good idea. I imagine some of the more powerful tutors might be the first addition to this list, but perhaps not.
I was under the impression that WotC will apply the 1v1 banlist universally on Magic Online even if one chooses to play Commander in multiplayer (if that is still possible) - though that might be a lack of reading comprehension on my part. I will admit that I didn't double-check whether that is contradicted in the article.
I'm also not saying that they will apply the banlist to multiplayer, but suggest that they might take it into account indirectly when making Commander product - prefering cards that are on neither banlist over cards that would be fine in paper multiplayer, but are banned in online 1v1. A chilling effect of sorts.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
He is available online.
pucatrade
big receipts
alpha mox emerald
beta time walk
4 goyfs received
3 liliana of the veil
4 karn liberated
3 force of will
4 grove of the burnwillows
snapcaster mage
3 horizon canopy
2 full art damnation
Huge problem now though, with people thinking the official wizards' banlist for commander applies to paper (and why wouldn't they. It's directly from the people who make the game!)
Not looking forward to all the arguments and confusion this causes when someone turns up with an emrakul deck or whatever other insert contentious card here.
Wizards may have had their hearts in the right place but they've inadvertently screwed the 'unofficial actual' commander banlist over completely. What newer players will go to a random third party forum to find the commander rules if it's on wizards' own site? Basically no-one, that's who.
You'll have newer eager players going off the mtgo banlist and stuffy "old guard" players getting their banlist updates from some random guy's third party forum. Not an ideal situation. Eventually the mtgo list will take over completely.
The preconstructed decks they sell are now unplayable out of box, because they've always had Sol Ring. How is that going to affect paper product? Are the new paper decks going to be altered because of this ban list?
I'd also welcome a banlist for paper commander events, as again, going to a wotc sanctioned fnm commander event where the banlist is designed by a third party is stupid beyond logical comprehension.
There isn't particularly an issue with wizards managing the banlist in theory. it makes sense if it's a format supported and printed by them.
except there's a few things that aren't right about the current situation though:
1) we know (not guess, know) that wizards doesn't test "older formats" very much when designing new product, and this applies to commander as much as it applies to legacy or modern. Commander has always been a community driven format, and they put in the hours to maintain a banlist that was fun for the majority. I can't see wizards employees being able to put in nearly as much time or motivation into managing what is effectively a casual format. it just isn't going to happen.
2) by releasing their own official banlist, they have de facto taken control of the format, as newer players will find the official wizards' banlist and ignore the one that seasoned players are using. whether or not one list is better than the other is irrelevant, because the problem is one of confusion. which banlist do you use? what if you go somewhere and they are using the official one, and you're using the third party one like old traditional EDH player that you are, lol? it will lead to arguments and issues that don't need to happen.
if they'd just come out and said "yeah guys, apologies for furore, but we're just going to release an official commander banlist starting from now, everyone has to use it in all sanctioned events from now on" that would actually be fine. no ambiguity, it makes sense. sure, a few people would rock the apple cart and get upset but they'd deal with it. Instead, we get this weird "only online" thing but at the same time they introduce this huge elephant in the room that's an actual, official wizards banlist, meaning many people - new or old players, will start using this list even in paper, causing ambiguity and a rift in the format when there didn't need to be one.
If you read the whole thread you will find arguments why this could easily influence paper despite not intended to affect it.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
The Duel Commander Commitee has already announced they would not follow Wizard's banlist, for it excludes too many broken cards (and still some dangerous commanders) and is not adapted to competitive or casual 20HP.
I don't believe the 30HP commitee hasn't spoken about it yet.
What is weird though is WotC saying they will ban things based on negative player experience but leaving things like Mine + Crucible or Instant Tutor + Any Geddon effect in their format in the first place. Don't really understand that.
It's very likely though, that a new player to commander will search "commander banlist" on Google. Which list will they go by? The one on wizards' website or the one on some random forum?
The answer is obvious; this move will create unnecessary confusion in paper despite their intentions.
It would have been better for them to just take over the whole thing and maybe upset a few people but remove any ambiguity. In an ideal world they could have at least consulted the people who maintain the paper banlist (recently confirmed that they were not consulted at all).
Right? The current list may be good/bad/whatever but it doesn't really matter. The issue is confusion.
That said, their banlist is incomplete and their approach is half-hearted, but I'm sure that's because they're trying to avoid stepping on more toes than they have to. I await the inevitable and glorious announcement a year or two from now that WotC is taking full control of EDH as a format.
This is the most accomodating reaction one can expect within reason. Good job.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO