Masterpieces are for Standard sets only. Iconic Masters is a supplemental product akin to Modern Masters.
Is that a strict rule or just how it has been so far? How about doing the full set in the old frame since its a supplemental set with a limited run? They seem to be open to using different frames more often; it would certainly be 'Iconic' and play into the old school feel of no spoilers etc. probably just wishful thinking on my part though.
Really, Masterpiece series is a way for them to put reprints of cards into a Standard-legal set without actually releasing them into Standard. I wouldn't be surprised if the name "Masterpiece" was chosen the resemble "Masters" to send them message: These are cards you wouldn't normally get in a Standard set and are more akin to something you would get in a "Masters" set (like Modern Masters, Eternal Masters, or now Iconic Masters).
In that sense putting "Masterpieces" into a Masters series product would be partially redundant - and partially draw attention away from the Masterpieces they put into Standard-legal sets.
One point about this is that this already being an all-reprint set means that assigning Masterpieces would be more arbitrary - and essentially adding another layer of rarity onto these.
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
Really, Masterpiece series is a way for them to put reprints of cards into a Standard-legal set without actually releasing them into Standard.
Eh, I don't know about this. Masterpieces are printed at such low quantities that they have little to no impact on the availability of cards. They're really just extra-rare collectors items meant to exploit gambling psychology and push pack sales. When that garbage Battle for Zendikar block sold like hotcakes because of the Expeditions it was inevitable that we would see them in every regular set going forward. The only reason we didn't see them in Shadows Over Innistrad block is because their sacred market research wasn't done in time for those sets to be printed.
Eh, I don't know about this. Masterpieces are printed at such low quantities that they have little to no impact on the availability of cards. They're really just extra-rare collectors items meant to exploit gambling psychology and push pack sales.
I didn't say that the Masterpieces are meant to create a meaningful supply. I just say that they are used to reprint cards into a Standard-legal set without actually releasing them into Standard. No evaluation regarding the efficacy regarding a certain outcome players hope for is implied.
They have their reasons to make these reprints and it aren't the ones you hope for, but that doesn't change that the series is mostly an outlet for reprints we otherwise wouldn't see in the set (generally due to raw power level) - mixed with some prmium variants from the sets proper. Since the Masters-series does not have to address concerns regarding Standard-legality the whole attribute of "reprints of a higher power level" is gone and all you are left with is variant foils of some cards you already could find in the set proper.
I just think much of the allure would be lost.
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
One point about this is that this already being an all-reprint set means that assigning Masterpieces would be more arbitrary - and essentially adding another layer of rarity onto these.
Have to agree with this. The only way they could have some kind of masterpiece series in a reprint-only set without it feeling like having the 'real good stuff' at ultra-rare would be to only do special art/frame versions of cards that are also regularly printed in the set.
But anyway, I'd guess you want less of a gambling factor when buying 10$ packs, not more - so probably better to just leave masterpieces or similar stuff out of this.
I didn't say that the Masterpieces are meant to create a meaningful supply. I just say that they are used to reprint cards into a Standard-legal set without actually releasing them into Standard. No evaluation regarding the efficacy regarding a certain outcome players hope for is implied.
They have their reasons to make these reprints and it aren't the ones you hope for, but that doesn't change that the series is mostly an outlet for reprints we otherwise wouldn't see in the set (generally due to raw power level) - mixed with some prmium variants from the sets proper. Since the Masters-series does not have to address concerns regarding Standard-legality the whole attribute of "reprints of a higher power level" is gone and all you are left with is variant foils of some cards you already could find in the set proper.
I just think much of the allure would be lost.
Yes, but from what I see in general, pretty much the only thing players want is meaningful supply, regardless of the printing channel, so basically it boils down to "What's the point of printing in a Standard-legal set without it entering into Standard if its so low in overall quantity?" The only two things Standard sets have going for them is A) Standard Legibility and B) Accessibility. The Masterpiece series subverts both in some ways.
The reason I say some ways is because the field gets very, very murky when the word "accessibility" is brought up - there will always be people who just go "I can't afford it = inaccessible", but well, affordability varies from individual to individual. Add in the equation on whether it is worth it to lose the "Whales" of the game for more players (who spend way less), it becomes murkier for the decision-makers (who have shareholders to answer to). Not going to go on further on the topic, it has been debated to exile and back.
The real issue is that it's blatantly clear that Masterpiece quantities are ultimately lower than those of their Master-Series prints. The main concern is whether Wizards will attempt to boost the allure of Masterpieces by denying them entry to the Master-Series, which means a card would have gotten much less supply than it could potentially have, therefore making the Masterpiece series a "bane" to supply-increase methods rather than a gain. As with the reprint issue, there's no clear-cut answers. Mana Crypt, Force of Will and Spell Pierce have been in both prints relatively recently (along with Cryptic Command and Pact of Negation if you go further back) and there's no way they will stop the yearly Commander Sol Ring run because the Masterpiece exists.
I'm more inclined to just trust WotC knows what they're doing in this case, because of the sheer quantity of types of cards that need to be reprinted, there's no way to print them all at once and by the time you reach a card, another would have gone through yet another period of drought (like Pact of Negation). That being said, I'm also quite jaded and skeptical of how they also have a tendency to keep with their "Limited/Theme matters" a little too much (MM2 was the finest example) and while MM3 showed they did realize that, I'm not taking it as an absolute statement for all future products either.
I think Maro has stated pretty explicitly on his blog that "supplemental products don't get masterpieces". I also remember him saying the other day that a card can be in different masterpiece series.
Surprised I'm not hearing more people request Land Tax.
I wouldn't complain if Mana Drain didn't get reprinted. It's not a particularly iconic or famous card. More important, Mana Drain is an incredibly broken and overpowered card and it's certainly not I card I want to play against in every single blue EDH deck I go up against.
In the interest of representing famous cards that can't be reprinted thanks to the List, would they be willing to include stuff like Lotus Bloom and Ancestral Vision? Or are we more likely to get Lotus Petal and Brainstorm? See, I'm rolling down the list of major effects and looking at what iconic spells exist for those effects:
Some of these, like the Lotus and Moxes, are on the Reserved List, so instead of reprinting the card directly, I'm looking at similar cards that can serve as a reference.
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
I see you doubt and not without reason... for you have not yet considered the glory of Sphinx's Revelation. Which is neither on the List of good stuff you don't get nor the one of bad stuff that would disappoint you.
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
Yeah, Sphinx's Revelation is pretty much the most famous card to come out of RTR block. As a bonus, it fits the Iconic creatures theme. Which of course means we must also have Rakdos's Return since Rakdos is one of the most notable Demons in Magic lore.
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MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
I actually got a feeling they are doing this iconic masters set to also address reprints that didn't make the cut for MM2017. We're probably looking at Maelstrom Pulse being in the set along with Lightning Bolt and (hopefully) the Lorwyn / Elwynn art version of Thoughtseize. All three of those are fairly iconic cards in their own rights, and pulse is just way too overpriced right now. Also hoping they downgrade cards like Fulminator Mage to uncommon status.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
We're probably looking at Maelstrom Pulse being in the set along with Lightning Bolt and (hopefully) the Lorwyn / Elwynn art version of Thoughtseize. All three of those are fairly iconic cards in their own rights, and pulse is just way too overpriced right now.
Just a friendly reminder that I expect no overlap in cards between a Masters-set and a Masterpiece-series of the directly preceding or following block. Though with the amount of the former they are pushing out I'm starting to wonder whether this is sustainable.
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
We're probably looking at Maelstrom Pulse being in the set along with Lightning Bolt and (hopefully) the Lorwyn / Elwynn art version of Thoughtseize. All three of those are fairly iconic cards in their own rights, and pulse is just way too overpriced right now.
Just a friendly reminder that I expect no overlap in cards between a Masters-set and a Masterpiece-series of the directly preceding or following block. Though with the amount of the former they are pushing out I'm starting to wonder whether this is sustainable.
If that's the case then what's the point of the Masters line if they can't reprint cards just because there is a super rare version of it elsewhere.
If that's the case then what's the point of the Masters line if they can't reprint cards just because there is a super rare version of it elsewhere.
Either you have misunderstood my post, or you are misrepresenting it. I don't want to express that the cards for any given set of cards from the Masterpiece-series and any given set of cards from the Masters-series can never overlap. I just state that I think they will avoid such an overlap between those sets if they are released very close to each other e. g. within a year.
You see even with such a restriction they still can release any given card in the Masters-series, and any given card in the Masterpiece-series. Since they will never release every card everyone wants in the Masters-series anyway this does not even necessarily cust into the total number of cards released for any given set, but just influences the options they will pick from.
I'm not certain they will follow this line of reasoning, but I wouldn't be surprised if for this year they just pick Abrupt Decay over Maelstrom Pulse and Vindicate (or maybe take it to Pernicious Deed). That's all.
It's not like they don't want to have some cards left for next year either.
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
If that's the case then what's the point of the Masters line if they can't reprint cards just because there is a super rare version of it elsewhere.
Either you have misunderstood my post, or you are misrepresenting it. I don't want to express that the cards for any given set of cards from the Masterpiece-series and any given set of cards from the Masters-series can never overlap. I just state that I think they will avoid such an overlap between those sets if they are released very close to each other e. g. within a year.
You see even with such a restriction they still can release any given card in the Masters-series, and any given card in the Masterpiece-series. Since they will never release every card everyone wants in the Masters-series anyway this does not even necessarily cust into the total number of cards released for any given set, but just influences the options they will pick from.
I'm not certain they will follow this line of reasoning, but I wouldn't be surprised if for this year they just pick Abrupt Decay over Maelstrom Pulse and Vindicate (or maybe take it to Pernicious Deed). That's all.
It's not like they don't want to have some cards left for next year either.
You're lumping the wrong products together in the same swimming pool. The masterpiece series are not meant to deal with reprint issues. The reason for their existence is to create collector copies of existing cards across magic's history that can be sold at a high premium, thereby dropping costs on other cards in the set. The masters series is meant to reprint cards for actual play.
Think about it for a second: Do you really think that a masterpiece card that has a floor of 40 usd is going to help drop prices and increase availability on a card that is currently worth something like 5 dollars? This is also why I have a beef with how wizards is doing reprints as they are over pricing masters sets simply because the card values are high, when the point of the reprints is to drop the costs of those cards and let people actually purchase and own them. 240 msrp sets just keep the high ends high and decrease the prices on all the stuff people don't want because the sellers get saddled with them.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
You're lumping the wrong products together in the same swimming pool. The masterpiece series are not meant to deal with reprint issues. The reason for their existence is to create collector copies of existing cards across magic's history that can be sold at a high premium, thereby dropping costs on other cards in the set. The masters series is meant to reprint cards for actual play.
I'm sorry, but apparently I have to explain myself in every thread again and again: I'm not lumping things together into the same purpose, because I do not think the two series serve the same purpose. I think though that they can influence each other despite not having the same purpose. I think that Masterpieces are more special and will appear more desirable the more of them are not reprinted in a supplemental product in the same year. Exclusivity of reprints to the set the Masterpiece appears in is part of its appeal.
Masterpieces don't want to deal with reprint issues - but they want to maximize appeal. And because desirability adds to the appeal it is unlikely that Wizards would go on and diminish that desirability by creating a distracting second version of the same card in close proximity. Scarcity is a desirable feature and Wizards has to manage scarcity carefully across its product, because while some are meant to reduce it (to a degree) others thrive on maintaining scarcity.
I do not doubt we will get Maelstrom Pulse in a Masters-series product eventually. I just expect that set to be situated next year or the year after that (maybe both). I cannot imagine that we have run out of cards not in a Masterpiece-series that people want to see reprinted yet?
The Reserved List stands as a monument to Wizards mismanaging scarcity and crippling themselves indefinitely to recuperate.
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
You're lumping the wrong products together in the same swimming pool. The masterpiece series are not meant to deal with reprint issues. The reason for their existence is to create collector copies of existing cards across magic's history that can be sold at a high premium, thereby dropping costs on other cards in the set. The masters series is meant to reprint cards for actual play.
I'm sorry, but apparently I have to explain myself in every thread again and again: I'm not lumping things together into the same purpose, because I do not think the two series serve the same purpose. I think though that they can influence each other despite not having the same purpose. I think that Masterpieces are more special and will appear more desirable the more of them are not reprinted in a supplemental product in the same year. Exclusivity of reprints to the set the Masterpiece appears in is part of its appeal.
Masterpieces don't want to deal with reprint issues - but they want to maximize appeal. And because desirability adds to the appeal it is unlikely that Wizards would go on and diminish that desirability by creating a distracting second version of the same card in close proximity. Scarcity is a desirable feature and Wizards has to manage scarcity carefully across its product, because while some are meant to reduce it (to a degree) others thrive on maintaining scarcity.
I do not doubt we will get Maelstrom Pulse in a Masters-series product eventually. I just expect that set to be situated next year or the year after that (maybe both). I cannot imagine that we have run out of cards not in a Masterpiece-series that people want to see reprinted yet?
The Reserved List stands as a monument to Wizards mismanaging scarcity and crippling themselves indefinitely to recuperate.
They will reprint maelstrom pulse sooner than later and it probably will be the iconic masters set. Well, that might be far fetched in this case. It's more accurate to say it is 100% certain they are reprinting some of the masterpiece series in normal form in iconic masters. I understand what you are thinking, but that just isn't going to fly given they need spells to fill out the draft set and players expect cards in the set to be a step above what draft fodder is available in standard.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I really do hope we get some "iconic" Commander staples like Doubling Season and Flusterstorm. Just the name and what the set "consists" of makes me uneasy honestly. Most of what's iconic has been reprinted to oblivion, which defeats the purpose of the $10 packs. I just have no idea what Wizard plans with the set. Thankfully we'll find out most, if not all of what the set contains at Hascon, so we won't have to wait all the way until November. However, Wizards knows this, so they have to put good stuff in the packs, otherwise, nobody will pre-order. I'm just trying to figure out what will be in there that'll make sense from the "iconic" perspective, while still having value, while being a good draft format, while making for an interesting set.
I wonder what a pending set like this does to the secondary singles market on cards thought to be reprint candidates. Are people holding off on buying cards in hope they'll see a reprint price drop? Are people buying up cards in hope that a non-reprint will drive a profitable price spike? Or does it all even out and have no real net effect?
I know I held off on getting Ranger of Eos in hope of a MM17 reprint, and now I can get a playset for about the cost of a single copy before the reprint announcement. But other cards that people were hoping would be in MM17 just went through the roof once they were confirmed absent. From a month before MM17 to a couple weeks after, Mishra's Bauble went from under-$20 to (a shortlived peak of) over-$50. Death's Shadow would most likely be over $20 each now if it hadn't seen reprint.
Overall, in advance of actual spoiler season (which apparently this set won't even have, just a deluge of info on HasCon day), does a set like this tend towards heating up or cooling down the secondary market in the weeks-to-months before any actual contents are confirmed?
I wonder what a pending set like this does to the secondary singles market on cards thought to be reprint candidates. Are people holding off on buying cards in hope they'll see a reprint price drop? Are people buying up cards in hope that a non-reprint will drive a profitable price spike? Or does it all even out and have no real net effect?
I know I held off on getting Ranger of Eos in hope of a MM17 reprint, and now I can get a playset for about the cost of a single copy before the reprint announcement. But other cards that people were hoping would be in MM17 just went through the roof once they were confirmed absent. From a month before MM17 to a couple weeks after, Mishra's Bauble went from under-$20 to (a shortlived peak of) over-$50. Death's Shadow would most likely be over $20 each now if it hadn't seen reprint.
Overall, in advance of actual spoiler season (which apparently this set won't even have, just a deluge of info on HasCon day), does a set like this tend towards heating up or cooling down the secondary market in the weeks-to-months before any actual contents are confirmed?
What you need to do is make a list of suspected cards to be reprinted or that could be targeted for reprint in IMA and then just observe those prices over time. I've been doing this for a few weeks already. Takes less time to start than typing out half the comments that are books people put in here
Overall, in advance of actual spoiler season (which apparently this set won't even have, just a deluge of info on HasCon day), does a set like this tend towards heating up or cooling down the secondary market in the weeks-to-months before any actual contents are confirmed?
They didn't say there wouldn't be spoilers for Iconic Masters. They said folks going to Hascon would be going into the pre-release without spoilers, the way we did it back in the 90s. Before the actual release we will have the spoilers from WotC and realistically we will know almost the entire set after Hascon as people will post their pulls.
? What's the point of a spoiler season... after everything has been spoiled? Spoiler season usually exists to spread out the info release into a paced trickle and get various online entities to be able to be the one to reveal a card and get site hits as a result of players seeking info on the upcoming set. When all the cards will be known by the end of HasCon weekend, it's all been spoiled. There's nothing left to spoil, nobody thirsting for info.
What I'm guessing is rather than an actual spoiler season, we'll be getting a **** ton of social media posts of pulls with pics of the cards they opened, similar to what we saw with Conspiracy 2's final cards revealed, but in this case with each card. Dedicated fans will keep track of the # crunch and hopefully we see the entire set within a few hours.
I was wondering, what exactly are the specific terms of the reserved list?
For example in this day and age could WOTC get around the list by reprinting the power nine with different back, square edge and gold border like the collector's edition decks they printed a long time ago and label them as not legal for use in sanctioned tournaments?
If they could get away with doing it this way, I don't see why they wouldn't try reprinting the reserved list in a non-legal set for drafting purposes. Think of it as a serious version of a Un-set, meant for causal play.
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Really, Masterpiece series is a way for them to put reprints of cards into a Standard-legal set without actually releasing them into Standard. I wouldn't be surprised if the name "Masterpiece" was chosen the resemble "Masters" to send them message: These are cards you wouldn't normally get in a Standard set and are more akin to something you would get in a "Masters" set (like Modern Masters, Eternal Masters, or now Iconic Masters).
In that sense putting "Masterpieces" into a Masters series product would be partially redundant - and partially draw attention away from the Masterpieces they put into Standard-legal sets.
One point about this is that this already being an all-reprint set means that assigning Masterpieces would be more arbitrary - and essentially adding another layer of rarity onto these.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
Eh, I don't know about this. Masterpieces are printed at such low quantities that they have little to no impact on the availability of cards. They're really just extra-rare collectors items meant to exploit gambling psychology and push pack sales. When that garbage Battle for Zendikar block sold like hotcakes because of the Expeditions it was inevitable that we would see them in every regular set going forward. The only reason we didn't see them in Shadows Over Innistrad block is because their sacred market research wasn't done in time for those sets to be printed.
I didn't say that the Masterpieces are meant to create a meaningful supply. I just say that they are used to reprint cards into a Standard-legal set without actually releasing them into Standard. No evaluation regarding the efficacy regarding a certain outcome players hope for is implied.
They have their reasons to make these reprints and it aren't the ones you hope for, but that doesn't change that the series is mostly an outlet for reprints we otherwise wouldn't see in the set (generally due to raw power level) - mixed with some prmium variants from the sets proper. Since the Masters-series does not have to address concerns regarding Standard-legality the whole attribute of "reprints of a higher power level" is gone and all you are left with is variant foils of some cards you already could find in the set proper.
I just think much of the allure would be lost.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
Have to agree with this. The only way they could have some kind of masterpiece series in a reprint-only set without it feeling like having the 'real good stuff' at ultra-rare would be to only do special art/frame versions of cards that are also regularly printed in the set.
But anyway, I'd guess you want less of a gambling factor when buying 10$ packs, not more - so probably better to just leave masterpieces or similar stuff out of this.
W(W/U)U Ephara - Flash & Taxes W(W/U)U || B(B/G)G Meren - Circle of Life B(B/G)G
RGW Marath - Ever shifting Wilds RGW || (U/R)C(W/B) Breya - Artificial Dominion (U/R)C(W/B)
UBR Becket Brass - take what you can, give nothing back UBR
Yes, but from what I see in general, pretty much the only thing players want is meaningful supply, regardless of the printing channel, so basically it boils down to "What's the point of printing in a Standard-legal set without it entering into Standard if its so low in overall quantity?" The only two things Standard sets have going for them is A) Standard Legibility and B) Accessibility. The Masterpiece series subverts both in some ways.
The reason I say some ways is because the field gets very, very murky when the word "accessibility" is brought up - there will always be people who just go "I can't afford it = inaccessible", but well, affordability varies from individual to individual. Add in the equation on whether it is worth it to lose the "Whales" of the game for more players (who spend way less), it becomes murkier for the decision-makers (who have shareholders to answer to). Not going to go on further on the topic, it has been debated to exile and back.
The real issue is that it's blatantly clear that Masterpiece quantities are ultimately lower than those of their Master-Series prints. The main concern is whether Wizards will attempt to boost the allure of Masterpieces by denying them entry to the Master-Series, which means a card would have gotten much less supply than it could potentially have, therefore making the Masterpiece series a "bane" to supply-increase methods rather than a gain. As with the reprint issue, there's no clear-cut answers. Mana Crypt, Force of Will and Spell Pierce have been in both prints relatively recently (along with Cryptic Command and Pact of Negation if you go further back) and there's no way they will stop the yearly Commander Sol Ring run because the Masterpiece exists.
I'm more inclined to just trust WotC knows what they're doing in this case, because of the sheer quantity of types of cards that need to be reprinted, there's no way to print them all at once and by the time you reach a card, another would have gone through yet another period of drought (like Pact of Negation). That being said, I'm also quite jaded and skeptical of how they also have a tendency to keep with their "Limited/Theme matters" a little too much (MM2 was the finest example) and while MM3 showed they did realize that, I'm not taking it as an absolute statement for all future products either.
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I wouldn't complain if Mana Drain didn't get reprinted. It's not a particularly iconic or famous card. More important, Mana Drain is an incredibly broken and overpowered card and it's certainly not I card I want to play against in every single blue EDH deck I go up against.
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
Anthem - Glorious Anthem
Bounce - Waterfront Bouncer
Burn - Fireball, Lightning Bolt, Blightning, Electrolyze, Lightning Helix
Card draw - Ancestral Recall
Control - Control Magic, Ray of Command, Threaten
Counter - Counterspell
Damage prevention - Fog
Discard - Thoughtseize
Extra combat - Relentless Assault
Extraction - Extract, Lobotomy
Extra turn - Time Walk
Flickering - Flicker
Graveyard hate - Tormod's Crypt
Growth - Giant Growth
Life gain - Er, Healing Salve?
Looting - Merfolk Looter
Mana dorks & rocks - Birds of Paradise, Llanowar Elves, Black Lotus, Mana Vault, Moxes, Sol Ring
Mill - Millstone
Panic - Panic
Permanent removal - Disenchant, Swords to Plowshares, Doom Blade, Terror, Shatter, Naturalize, Plummet
Reanimation - Reanimate
Rummaging - Rummaging Goblin, Tormenting Voice
Sacrifice - Diabolic Edict
Tutor - Gifts Ungiven, Demonic Tutor, Dragonstorm, Fetchlands
Wheel - Wheel of Fortune
Wrath - Wrath of God, Damnation, Pyroclasm
Some of these, like the Lotus and Moxes, are on the Reserved List, so instead of reprinting the card directly, I'm looking at similar cards that can serve as a reference.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
I see you doubt and not without reason... for you have not yet considered the glory of Sphinx's Revelation. Which is neither on the List of good stuff you don't get nor the one of bad stuff that would disappoint you.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Just a friendly reminder that I expect no overlap in cards between a Masters-set and a Masterpiece-series of the directly preceding or following block. Though with the amount of the former they are pushing out I'm starting to wonder whether this is sustainable.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
If that's the case then what's the point of the Masters line if they can't reprint cards just because there is a super rare version of it elsewhere.
Either you have misunderstood my post, or you are misrepresenting it. I don't want to express that the cards for any given set of cards from the Masterpiece-series and any given set of cards from the Masters-series can never overlap. I just state that I think they will avoid such an overlap between those sets if they are released very close to each other e. g. within a year.
You see even with such a restriction they still can release any given card in the Masters-series, and any given card in the Masterpiece-series. Since they will never release every card everyone wants in the Masters-series anyway this does not even necessarily cust into the total number of cards released for any given set, but just influences the options they will pick from.
I'm not certain they will follow this line of reasoning, but I wouldn't be surprised if for this year they just pick Abrupt Decay over Maelstrom Pulse and Vindicate (or maybe take it to Pernicious Deed). That's all.
It's not like they don't want to have some cards left for next year either.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
You're lumping the wrong products together in the same swimming pool. The masterpiece series are not meant to deal with reprint issues. The reason for their existence is to create collector copies of existing cards across magic's history that can be sold at a high premium, thereby dropping costs on other cards in the set. The masters series is meant to reprint cards for actual play.
Think about it for a second: Do you really think that a masterpiece card that has a floor of 40 usd is going to help drop prices and increase availability on a card that is currently worth something like 5 dollars? This is also why I have a beef with how wizards is doing reprints as they are over pricing masters sets simply because the card values are high, when the point of the reprints is to drop the costs of those cards and let people actually purchase and own them. 240 msrp sets just keep the high ends high and decrease the prices on all the stuff people don't want because the sellers get saddled with them.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I'm sorry, but apparently I have to explain myself in every thread again and again: I'm not lumping things together into the same purpose, because I do not think the two series serve the same purpose. I think though that they can influence each other despite not having the same purpose. I think that Masterpieces are more special and will appear more desirable the more of them are not reprinted in a supplemental product in the same year. Exclusivity of reprints to the set the Masterpiece appears in is part of its appeal.
Masterpieces don't want to deal with reprint issues - but they want to maximize appeal. And because desirability adds to the appeal it is unlikely that Wizards would go on and diminish that desirability by creating a distracting second version of the same card in close proximity. Scarcity is a desirable feature and Wizards has to manage scarcity carefully across its product, because while some are meant to reduce it (to a degree) others thrive on maintaining scarcity.
I do not doubt we will get Maelstrom Pulse in a Masters-series product eventually. I just expect that set to be situated next year or the year after that (maybe both). I cannot imagine that we have run out of cards not in a Masterpiece-series that people want to see reprinted yet?
The Reserved List stands as a monument to Wizards mismanaging scarcity and crippling themselves indefinitely to recuperate.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
They will reprint maelstrom pulse sooner than later and it probably will be the iconic masters set. Well, that might be far fetched in this case. It's more accurate to say it is 100% certain they are reprinting some of the masterpiece series in normal form in iconic masters. I understand what you are thinking, but that just isn't going to fly given they need spells to fill out the draft set and players expect cards in the set to be a step above what draft fodder is available in standard.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I know I held off on getting Ranger of Eos in hope of a MM17 reprint, and now I can get a playset for about the cost of a single copy before the reprint announcement. But other cards that people were hoping would be in MM17 just went through the roof once they were confirmed absent. From a month before MM17 to a couple weeks after, Mishra's Bauble went from under-$20 to (a shortlived peak of) over-$50. Death's Shadow would most likely be over $20 each now if it hadn't seen reprint.
Overall, in advance of actual spoiler season (which apparently this set won't even have, just a deluge of info on HasCon day), does a set like this tend towards heating up or cooling down the secondary market in the weeks-to-months before any actual contents are confirmed?
What you need to do is make a list of suspected cards to be reprinted or that could be targeted for reprint in IMA and then just observe those prices over time. I've been doing this for a few weeks already. Takes less time to start than typing out half the comments that are books people put in here
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-general/334931-what-is-the-most-pimp-card-deck-youve-seen-or?comment=5361
Commander
RGOmnath, Locus of Rage Grenades! EDHGR
UWSygg's Defense, EDH - Voltron & ControlWU
BUGMimeoplasm EDH ft. Ifnir Cycling-discard comboBUG
WBTeysa, Connoisseur of CullingBW
BWSelenia & Recruiter of the Guard suicice combo EDHWB
UBRWGO-Kagachi - 5 Color Enchantments - EDHUBRWG
They didn't say there wouldn't be spoilers for Iconic Masters. They said folks going to Hascon would be going into the pre-release without spoilers, the way we did it back in the 90s. Before the actual release we will have the spoilers from WotC and realistically we will know almost the entire set after Hascon as people will post their pulls.
For example in this day and age could WOTC get around the list by reprinting the power nine with different back, square edge and gold border like the collector's edition decks they printed a long time ago and label them as not legal for use in sanctioned tournaments?
If they could get away with doing it this way, I don't see why they wouldn't try reprinting the reserved list in a non-legal set for drafting purposes. Think of it as a serious version of a Un-set, meant for causal play.