I thought the same way about the up shift in rarity on pre mythic sets until I saw snapcaster mage and cavern up shifted. This isn't being done for consistency, it is being done to create chase cards.
All sets need chase cards.
This has always been the case.
I am curious as to why YOU are expected to be allowed to be greedy (I want the cards I want to be cheaper) but not WotC (wanting to sell as much product as they can)
Snapcaster is a bit cheaper than he used to be, likely due to the reprint. But you want more.
Format staples crashing in price due to reprints is bad for the game.
Interesting that no one is talking about Blood Moon drop^ping about 40 dollars since MM2017.... I wonder why?
Is it because there will always be expensive cards and people like you NEED to complain about prices and accuse of WotC of "unethical behaviour" to feel better about themselves loving a VERY expensive HOBBY maybe?
Ane enough with the whole "I don't want them to be cheaper for me, I have my playset. Those who are happy about their investment not crashing are lesser humans because they put their investment over accessibility" nonsense. Crad prices being high, up to a certain degree, means the game is doing WELL. They are PLENTY of affordable formats, hell the best format in all of MtG is Limited (the reason it is so unpopular here is because you can't netdeck). Not all formats are equal, instead of accusing WotC of "greed" maybe look at playing other formats? Why does WotC have to bend to YOUR whim exactly? What about people who dropped thousands of dollars to GET into Legacy/Modern and would rather not think "awww man, I should have waited. Now instead of buying into a format, I'll just wait for Chronicles 3.0".
Format staples crashing in price due to reprints is bad for the game.
This is where your argument falls apart. I can think of 5 cards that crashed in price from near or at $100 and down to $10 and no one batted an eye negatively towards them being reprinted. You may know them actually, they're called the allied fetchlands. Was it bad for the game when they were reprinted and their prices crashed? In fact, let's go further back to shocklands being reprinted, was that bad for the game when they went from $30-$50 to $6-$10?
After all those lands are chase cards, everyone wants them and in large quantities.
What about people who dropped thousands of dollars to GET into Legacy/Modern and would rather not think "awww man, I should have waited. Now instead of buying into a format, I'll just wait for Chronicles 3.0".
No, I don't care about them in the slightest, because they know that at any time a card can be reprinted and its price can crash. If it's not on the Reserved List then they should know not to sink thousands on cards like that and know it could happen with any new set or product.
Did they ***** when Thoughtseize was reprinted? Going from $50 to $8 with a new set? What about with fetches or shocks? Did they cry out that they just lost hundreds or even thousands on those cards?
Considering Canadian guys response it looks like their strategy is working on up shifting pricing into categories. I'm still waiting to see what they do for the remaining cards and the edh specs, though. Iconic masters will be a good test I think.
His concern is loss of trading power if the cards drop in price I think. That is a non-issue if the prices drop similarly on what cards are currently being played.
As for comments about how blood moon is cheaper now than it was prior, that is actually a red herring.
Here is the question: what was the price of a snapcaster mage in standard when Innistrad was released? If you know what I'm thinking, keep an eye on what they reprint in iconic masters.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I thought the same way about the up shift in rarity on pre mythic sets until I saw snapcaster mage and cavern up shifted. This isn't being done for consistency, it is being done to create chase cards.
Well, thank god! I paid a lot for those cards and don't want to see their values decimated.
I thought the same way about the up shift in rarity on pre mythic sets until I saw snapcaster mage and cavern up shifted. This isn't being done for consistency, it is being done to create chase cards.
Well, thank god! I paid a lot for those cards and don't want to see their values decimated.
Value decimated? Din't you get them to play the game so why they getting cheap now would do to you? If they were cheaper wouldn't be betetr to get?
Format staples crashing in price due to reprints is bad for the game.
This is where your argument falls apart. I can think of 5 cards that crashed in price from near or at $100 and down to $10 and no one batted an eye negatively towards them being reprinted. You may know them actually, they're called the allied fetchlands. Was it bad for the game when they were reprinted and their prices crashed? In fact, let's go further back to shocklands being reprinted, was that bad for the game when they went from $30-$50 to $6-$10?
After all those lands are chase cards, everyone wants them and in large quantities.
What about people who dropped thousands of dollars to GET into Legacy/Modern and would rather not think "awww man, I should have waited. Now instead of buying into a format, I'll just wait for Chronicles 3.0".
No, I don't care about them in the slightest, because they know that at any time a card can be reprinted and its price can crash. If it's not on the Reserved List then they should know not to sink thousands on cards like that and know it could happen with any new set or product.
Did they ***** when Thoughtseize was reprinted? Going from $50 to $8 with a new set? What about with fetches or shocks? Did they cry out that they just lost hundreds or even thousands on those cards?
Any individual or handful of cards dropping in price isn't a problem. Heck, the cycle of reprinted cards dropping and allowing people to buy in on the cheap is healthy for the game as a whole. The concern for me would come in if the entire market crashed where everything was greatly devalued. The first scenario is healthy. The second is not. There is a collectible element to the game that would be ruined if the whole market goes under.
On the second point that's a pretty callous argument on your side. "I don't care if you just lost thousands" is the opposite side of the elitist coin "I got mine now nobody else should get it cheaper." If everyone followed your logic, eternal formats would slowly cease to exist as the player base dwindled and nobody new ever bought in. There has to be a happy middle ground. The reprint cycle now allows the intelligent buyer to plan out what they want to get and easily purchase anticipated reprints inexpensively.
We can argue what is or isn't expensive because that price point is different for everyone. But the fact is that the current reprint philosophy has made it that buying cards for investments sake is solely limited to the reserve list - and that's a completely separate discussion. Simply put its not worth the risk to speculate on non-RL cards anymore.
I own a game shop and I always charge MSRP (or lower) for in print products. It's not hard to do, just a choice. People who shop here appreciate the lack of price gouging. Out of print products are different. The prices rise as the product becomes more and more scarce (usually). I rely on customer loyalty instead of gouging a few people who don't know any better. Everyone is happy, I stay in business and we all have a place to play.
I honestly think that these "masters" sets are waaaaay overpriced. $10/ pack is obscene. The market bears it somehow so WOTC continues. I feel like $5 per pack is fair, $7 is reaching. I opened many $1 and 50 cent rares last time around. We'll see what happens with Iconic Masters. As usual, I'm optimistic, and look forward to some good gaming after release.
Value decimated? Din't you get them to play the game so why they getting cheap now would do to you? If they were cheaper wouldn't be betetr to get?
Because your 'idea' would quickly finish the game.
It's also why we have a reserve list.
If Wizards wants their game to die they are free to ignore the secondary market.
Oh, they aren't ignoring it. In fact, it looks like they are trying to do some manipulation via how they are printing the sets. I am not a fan of the potential bar that WoTC is setting on the costs long term.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Maybe smoothing out the seemingly hit or miss boxes, lowering to 7.99, adding 2-4 more higher end rares and 2-4 more uncommons would help some.
Seems somewhat reasonable
Value decimated? Din't you get them to play the game so why they getting cheap now would do to you? If they were cheaper wouldn't be betetr to get?
Because your 'idea' would quickly finish the game.
It's also why we have a reserve list.
If Wizards wants their game to die they are free to ignore the secondary market.
Oh, they aren't ignoring it. In fact, it looks like they are trying to do some manipulation via how they are printing the sets. I am not a fan of the potential bar that WoTC is setting on the costs long term.
If you think that printing cards like Snapcaster Mage and Cavern of Souls at Mythic equates to trying to manipulate the secondary market for nefarious ends (which is what you are implying) then that just goes to show how far out of your depth you are.
Words and expressions have meanings, you would do well to learn them and use them accordingly. Might help you get taken seriously.
I love how your lot is utterly incapable of formulating any semblence of a rational argument.
Maybe smoothing out the seemingly hit or miss boxes, lowering to 7.99, adding 2-4 more higher end rares and 2-4 more uncommons would help some.
Seems somewhat reasonable
I think that would go a long way to help things with Iconic Masters. The big issue is that if it is like Eternal Masters and they target a lot of EDH cards and legacy cards, the prices on those are not necessarily from demand as much as the supply of the cards running low. EDH players tend to buy a lot of one off singles so you end up with the highest demand cards being where the roads intersect. Cards like Thousand Year Elixir and Sol Ring are pretty good examples of high demand EDH staples and their prices are holding pretty steady even with reprints. However, cards like Mikaeus, the Unhallowed are only bought be a few players and are priced that high due to a slow stripping of supply. If they mix in cards like Chalice of the Void they could shore things up a bit, but I'm skeptical.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Any individual or handful of cards dropping in price isn't a problem. Heck, the cycle of reprinted cards dropping and allowing people to buy in on the cheap is healthy for the game as a whole. The concern for me would come in if the entire market crashed where everything was greatly devalued. The first scenario is healthy. The second is not. There is a collectible element to the game that would be ruined if the whole market goes under.
Why worry about the entire market dropping? They literally couldn't accomplish it again with one set, like with Chronicles, and because of that one set WotC and the rest of you get scared to think that more than a dozen cards dropping at a time is going to ruin the game. For a market wide crash to happen it would take more than one set just based on the fact there are far greater number of expensive cards than there was 20 years ago. Hell, Goyf has been reprinted 3 times now and only recently did its price drop under $100, but you're right it doesn't take much for an ENTIRE MARKET to come down like a poorly built tower of cards.
In addition, why do those on your side of the argument always believe that those that want reprints to happen far more often that we want everything to cost less than a banana?
On the second point that's a pretty callous argument on your side. "I don't care if you just lost thousands" is the opposite side of the elitist coin "I got mine now nobody else should get it cheaper."
In what world is it opposite for me to say that I don't care if you lost thousands on a card game? I've lost hundreds myself trying to play the market game and it's my dumbass for doing it and it would be their fault too. I don't care about them losing money because they probably shouldn't be spending thousands to invest in a card game. If they want safer investments they can buy silver or gold.
If everyone followed your logic, eternal formats would slowly cease to exist as the player base dwindled and nobody new ever bought in. There has to be a happy middle ground. The reprint cycle now allows the intelligent buyer to plan out what they want to get and easily purchase anticipated reprints inexpensively.
What logic did I state would cause eternal formats to stop existing? Why does the price cards mean the existence of Legacy and Vintage? What do those two things have to do with each other? Legacy and Vintage have been dead/dying for years thanks to the lack of reprints, but you think that if reprints happen the formats will die still?
I love how your lot is utterly incapable of formulating any semblence of a rational argument.
Speaking of being incapable of making an argument by insulting others. You'd be taken more seriously if you'd stop with the insults. Your argument is that if they drop the price on cards the game dies immediately, which is untrue in most cases and has only been true ONCE in the entire history of the game when they took it to the extreme.
Value decimated? Din't you get them to play the game so why they getting cheap now would do to you? If they were cheaper wouldn't be betetr to get?
Because your 'idea' would quickly finish the game.
It's also why we have a reserve list.
If Wizards wants their game to die they are free to ignore the secondary market.
A couple of high value reprints wouldn't kill the game don'te xagerate. Also with more cards on the market more people are willnig to enter the format incerasing the demand.
A couple of high value reprints wouldn't kill the game don'te xagerate. Also with more cards on the market more people are willnig to enter the format incerasing the demand.
It won't be limited to a couple.
And it shows that Wizards intentionally targets the secondary market to screw it over.
Because we're not talking about random rares being reprinted, no, it's about picking expensive cards and reprinting them a lot.
Yes, that would ruin the secondary market.
A couple of high value reprints wouldn't kill the game don'te xagerate. Also with more cards on the market more people are willnig to enter the format incerasing the demand.
It won't be limited to a couple.
And it shows that Wizards intentionally targets the secondary market to screw it over.
Because we're not talking about random rares being reprinted, no, it's about picking expensive cards and reprinting them a lot.
Yes, that would ruin the secondary market.
WotC intentionally targets the secondary market? You're....you're kidding, right? When was the last time they "targeted the secondary market" with more than five cards at any time outside of a limited print run product? When was the last time they picked out dozens of expensive cards and printed them a lot, so much so that it would ruin the secondary market. Oh wait, the last time they did that was 22 years ago and NEVER SINCE.
Roight, better idea. I'm gonna lock this thread until we get some actual news and everyone here can behave like reasonable people again.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
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All sets need chase cards.
This has always been the case.
I am curious as to why YOU are expected to be allowed to be greedy (I want the cards I want to be cheaper) but not WotC (wanting to sell as much product as they can)
Snapcaster is a bit cheaper than he used to be, likely due to the reprint. But you want more.
Format staples crashing in price due to reprints is bad for the game.
Interesting that no one is talking about Blood Moon drop^ping about 40 dollars since MM2017.... I wonder why?
Is it because there will always be expensive cards and people like you NEED to complain about prices and accuse of WotC of "unethical behaviour" to feel better about themselves loving a VERY expensive HOBBY maybe?
Ane enough with the whole "I don't want them to be cheaper for me, I have my playset. Those who are happy about their investment not crashing are lesser humans because they put their investment over accessibility" nonsense. Crad prices being high, up to a certain degree, means the game is doing WELL. They are PLENTY of affordable formats, hell the best format in all of MtG is Limited (the reason it is so unpopular here is because you can't netdeck). Not all formats are equal, instead of accusing WotC of "greed" maybe look at playing other formats? Why does WotC have to bend to YOUR whim exactly? What about people who dropped thousands of dollars to GET into Legacy/Modern and would rather not think "awww man, I should have waited. Now instead of buying into a format, I'll just wait for Chronicles 3.0".
This is where your argument falls apart. I can think of 5 cards that crashed in price from near or at $100 and down to $10 and no one batted an eye negatively towards them being reprinted. You may know them actually, they're called the allied fetchlands. Was it bad for the game when they were reprinted and their prices crashed? In fact, let's go further back to shocklands being reprinted, was that bad for the game when they went from $30-$50 to $6-$10?
After all those lands are chase cards, everyone wants them and in large quantities.
No, I don't care about them in the slightest, because they know that at any time a card can be reprinted and its price can crash. If it's not on the Reserved List then they should know not to sink thousands on cards like that and know it could happen with any new set or product.
Did they ***** when Thoughtseize was reprinted? Going from $50 to $8 with a new set? What about with fetches or shocks? Did they cry out that they just lost hundreds or even thousands on those cards?
His concern is loss of trading power if the cards drop in price I think. That is a non-issue if the prices drop similarly on what cards are currently being played.
As for comments about how blood moon is cheaper now than it was prior, that is actually a red herring.
Here is the question: what was the price of a snapcaster mage in standard when Innistrad was released? If you know what I'm thinking, keep an eye on what they reprint in iconic masters.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Well, thank god! I paid a lot for those cards and don't want to see their values decimated.
Value decimated? Din't you get them to play the game so why they getting cheap now would do to you? If they were cheaper wouldn't be betetr to get?
Because your 'idea' would quickly finish the game.
It's also why we have a reserve list.
If Wizards wants their game to die they are free to ignore the secondary market.
Any individual or handful of cards dropping in price isn't a problem. Heck, the cycle of reprinted cards dropping and allowing people to buy in on the cheap is healthy for the game as a whole. The concern for me would come in if the entire market crashed where everything was greatly devalued. The first scenario is healthy. The second is not. There is a collectible element to the game that would be ruined if the whole market goes under.
On the second point that's a pretty callous argument on your side. "I don't care if you just lost thousands" is the opposite side of the elitist coin "I got mine now nobody else should get it cheaper." If everyone followed your logic, eternal formats would slowly cease to exist as the player base dwindled and nobody new ever bought in. There has to be a happy middle ground. The reprint cycle now allows the intelligent buyer to plan out what they want to get and easily purchase anticipated reprints inexpensively.
We can argue what is or isn't expensive because that price point is different for everyone. But the fact is that the current reprint philosophy has made it that buying cards for investments sake is solely limited to the reserve list - and that's a completely separate discussion. Simply put its not worth the risk to speculate on non-RL cards anymore.
I honestly think that these "masters" sets are waaaaay overpriced. $10/ pack is obscene. The market bears it somehow so WOTC continues. I feel like $5 per pack is fair, $7 is reaching. I opened many $1 and 50 cent rares last time around. We'll see what happens with Iconic Masters. As usual, I'm optimistic, and look forward to some good gaming after release.
Oh, they aren't ignoring it. In fact, it looks like they are trying to do some manipulation via how they are printing the sets. I am not a fan of the potential bar that WoTC is setting on the costs long term.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Seems somewhat reasonable
Alanis Morissette iconic.
If you think that printing cards like Snapcaster Mage and Cavern of Souls at Mythic equates to trying to manipulate the secondary market for nefarious ends (which is what you are implying) then that just goes to show how far out of your depth you are.
Words and expressions have meanings, you would do well to learn them and use them accordingly. Might help you get taken seriously.
I love how your lot is utterly incapable of formulating any semblence of a rational argument.
I think that would go a long way to help things with Iconic Masters. The big issue is that if it is like Eternal Masters and they target a lot of EDH cards and legacy cards, the prices on those are not necessarily from demand as much as the supply of the cards running low. EDH players tend to buy a lot of one off singles so you end up with the highest demand cards being where the roads intersect. Cards like Thousand Year Elixir and Sol Ring are pretty good examples of high demand EDH staples and their prices are holding pretty steady even with reprints. However, cards like Mikaeus, the Unhallowed are only bought be a few players and are priced that high due to a slow stripping of supply. If they mix in cards like Chalice of the Void they could shore things up a bit, but I'm skeptical.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Why worry about the entire market dropping? They literally couldn't accomplish it again with one set, like with Chronicles, and because of that one set WotC and the rest of you get scared to think that more than a dozen cards dropping at a time is going to ruin the game. For a market wide crash to happen it would take more than one set just based on the fact there are far greater number of expensive cards than there was 20 years ago. Hell, Goyf has been reprinted 3 times now and only recently did its price drop under $100, but you're right it doesn't take much for an ENTIRE MARKET to come down like a poorly built tower of cards.
In addition, why do those on your side of the argument always believe that those that want reprints to happen far more often that we want everything to cost less than a banana?
In what world is it opposite for me to say that I don't care if you lost thousands on a card game? I've lost hundreds myself trying to play the market game and it's my dumbass for doing it and it would be their fault too. I don't care about them losing money because they probably shouldn't be spending thousands to invest in a card game. If they want safer investments they can buy silver or gold.
What logic did I state would cause eternal formats to stop existing? Why does the price cards mean the existence of Legacy and Vintage? What do those two things have to do with each other? Legacy and Vintage have been dead/dying for years thanks to the lack of reprints, but you think that if reprints happen the formats will die still?
Speaking of being incapable of making an argument by insulting others. You'd be taken more seriously if you'd stop with the insults. Your argument is that if they drop the price on cards the game dies immediately, which is untrue in most cases and has only been true ONCE in the entire history of the game when they took it to the extreme.
A couple of high value reprints wouldn't kill the game don'te xagerate. Also with more cards on the market more people are willnig to enter the format incerasing the demand.
It won't be limited to a couple.
And it shows that Wizards intentionally targets the secondary market to screw it over.
Because we're not talking about random rares being reprinted, no, it's about picking expensive cards and reprinting them a lot.
Yes, that would ruin the secondary market.
WotC intentionally targets the secondary market? You're....you're kidding, right? When was the last time they "targeted the secondary market" with more than five cards at any time outside of a limited print run product? When was the last time they picked out dozens of expensive cards and printed them a lot, so much so that it would ruin the secondary market. Oh wait, the last time they did that was 22 years ago and NEVER SINCE.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.