At this point the only "player" demographic WotC is supporting is the secondary market.
You and I have very different definitions of "casual". Most casual decks I've seen aren't going to spend the $35 needed to make Coffers/Urborg a thing, or run Demonic Tutor. DIABOLIC Tutor maybe. I see T&N and CoW in tuned decks a lot more than "casual" ones.
Doubling Season is a $60 card that has been printed at rare twice and has no serious competitive application whatsoever. Many casual players are willing to spend money for cards too.
It's used in every competitive Superfriends build. Sure that deck may not be a terror like Hermit Druid or Ad Nauseum, but is still a solid competitive list when tuned.
Do you honestly think a tier 2 competitive Commander deck is enough to push a twice-printed rare card to $60? My city barely even has a competitive Commander scene. More people play Pauper here.
No, Doubling Season is one of the most iconic casual cards. It was always one of the hottest Ravnica cards, before most people had even heard of 'EDH'. And now it's even more valuable than Dark Confidant, which is a top tier staple in every competitive format and was subsequently printed at mythic not rare.
Glimpse the Unthinkable is another great example from Ravnica, has never seen any serious competitive play and it has consistently been one of the most valuable cards in the set because casual players love mill.
Both of those cards had better be in this set or Wizards has no idea what 'iconic' means.
That is what I imagine being in something that calls itself "Iconic Masters".
Iconic would be a 300+ card set that is 1/3 of each rarity (common, uncommon, rare(s)). I swear the Urza block or some of those old sets were 1/3 each rarity right? (open question) Now that would be an iconic Master's set.
I expect iconic threats, removal, permission, combo pieces, and lands. Since I've posted about draft archtypes and iconic tribal more than once, this time I might as well post my personal list of iconic cards to reprint:
Though since a good number of iconic removal and permission is cheap, how will they balance that against the more expensive iconic creatures in the set? Gonna be hard to build around big creatures with Swords to Plowshares or Path to Exile in the format. Shoot, even Plummet will be a contender in a set full of big fliers.
There's also the matter of iconic spells with overlap. Do we really need Lightning Bolt and Lightning Helix in the same set?
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
That is what I imagine being in something that calls itself "Iconic Masters".
Iconic would be a 300+ card set that is 1/3 of each rarity (common, uncommon, rare(s)). I swear the Urza block or some of those old sets were 1/3 each rarity right? (open question) Now that would be an iconic Master's set.
The old sets used to all be 363 cards. Cards are printed on sheets of 121 (11 x 11). There used to be 1 sheet of each rarity and each card only appeared once. That was for large sets. Smaller sets only used common and uncommon sheets and then had multiple cards that would appear more than once. For instance there are no real "rare" cards in Arabians or Antiquities, just cards that appeared on the uncommon sheet once and those that were there 3 times. All the "U1" cards were considered "rare" but came in the uncommon slots in packs. This all stopped at least 15 years ago.
Today most sets have 1 rare sheet and each "rare" appears on the sheet twice (53 x 2) and each "mythic" once (15 x 1). So each mythic is only as rare as all the old rares used to be and each new rare is twice as common as old rares.
And that doesn't account for the fact that they print more of each set now than they did in the past.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I always assume that they will keep the lists of reprints from Masterpiece-series and Masters-products during a given year-span mutually exclusive so the products don't steal each others thunder.
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
Seeing as IMA is a 249-card set, it most likely has the usual rarity ratio:
101 Commons
80 Uncommons
53 Rares
15 Mythic Rares
When suggesting reprints and multicolor cards, we should keep this in mind. I think it's safe to assume each iconic creature gets at least one mythic rare. There are plenty of mythic Angels, Demons, and Dragons I'd happily suggest for this product; problem is, there are too many I could suggest, there isn't enough room for all of them at mythic. And the competition for rare slots will likewise be quite stiff between iconic creatures, support for iconic creatures, and reprints of iconic spells. I don't expect every single iconic card ever in this set, just a good number of them to help fill out a draft and provide some post-draft value.
On the practical side, there will of course be the ten draft uncommons, though depending on how many multicolor cards they're willing to include it might be a bit trickier to determine what those are. Since this isn't a multicolor themed set, most of the multicolor cards will likely be uncommon or higher.
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
I'd be perfectly fine if every mythic was an iconic creature or legend, while the money cards (Mana Drain and Rishadan Port most likely) are rare. Wasteland and Fetchlands might have sold more boxes of their respective Masters set than Force of Will and Liliana of the Veil did.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Cards I like to see get reprinted in Iconic Masters:
Bloom Tender - Card has the potential to be an all-star in 5 color EDH/Commander decks yet it's still a $30-40 card.
Scapeshift - This card is seriously overdue for a reprint at $50.
Noble Hierarch - Still expensive that needs more reprints.
Mox Opal - Probably help drive the price down a bit to help Artifact builds in EDH/Commander.
Cavern of Souls - I'm fully aware that it recently received a reprint in Modern Masters 2017 but that's still no excuse as to why this card is more expensive than it's counterpart Boseiju, Who Shelters All.
Crucible of Worlds - Not even the Kaladesh Invention reprint was enough to drive the price of this card down for a card that should be a staple in EDH/Commander without getting pigeonholed into Green for Life from the Loam and/or Splendid Reclamation.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
Could we get old border style foils as the "Masterpieces"? It would be pretty interesting as that frame is iconic to a lot of players and there are a lot of old border cards without foils.
Cards I like to see get reprinted in Iconic Masters:
Bloom Tender - Card has the potential to be an all-star in 5 color EDH/Commander decks yet it's still a $30-40 card.
Scapeshift - This card is seriously overdue for a reprint at $50.
Noble Hierarch - Still expensive that needs more reprints.
Mox Opal - Probably help drive the price down a bit to help Artifact builds in EDH/Commander.
Cavern of Souls - I'm fully aware that it recently received a reprint in Modern Masters 2017 but that's still no excuse as to why this card is more expensive than it's counterpart Boseiju, Who Shelters All.
Crucible of Worlds - Not even the Kaladesh Invention reprint was enough to drive the price of this card down for a card that should be a staple in EDH/Commander without getting pigeonholed into Green for Life from the Loam and/or Splendid Reclamation.
There is going to have to be a grand reckoning on reprints for the entirety of Time spiral to early Zendikar because there aren't enough of those cards in circulation to keep prices in check at all. Bloom Tender and Painter's Servant are two victims of the modern metagame spiking prices and drawing the attention of speculators. At this point no one really is getting their money's worth out of buying high cost cards on the secondary market, though.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Masterpieces are for Standard sets only. Iconic Masters is a supplemental product akin to Modern Masters.
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():
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MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Masterpieces are for Standard sets only. Iconic Masters is a supplemental product akin to Modern Masters.
Is that a strict rule or just how it has been so far? How about doing the full set in the old frame since its a supplemental set with a limited run? They seem to be open to using different frames more often; it would certainly be 'Iconic' and play into the old school feel of no spoilers etc. probably just wishful thinking on my part though.
Could we get old border style foils as the "Masterpieces"? It would be pretty interesting as that frame is iconic to a lot of players and there are a lot of old border cards without foils.
1000x yes.
It would be cool if they did that with legacy and edh cards.
How cool would it be to open an old-frame deathrite shaman
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pucatrade
big receipts
alpha mox emerald
beta time walk
4 goyfs received
3 liliana of the veil
4 karn liberated
3 force of will
4 grove of the burnwillows
snapcaster mage
3 horizon canopy
2 full art damnation
Masterpieces don't make much sense for sets like this because with the limited print runs and high potential value it's a lot of added effort and printing costs to just double down on what is supposed to make the sets desirable in the first place: valuable old cards/pack lottery. Plus there are only so many card frame designs and masterpiece-worthy cards out there, I'm sure they want to save them for regular sets and not Masters sets.
Old frame Masterpieces would make sense for a return to Dominaria block.
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Do you honestly think a tier 2 competitive Commander deck is enough to push a twice-printed rare card to $60? My city barely even has a competitive Commander scene. More people play Pauper here.
No, Doubling Season is one of the most iconic casual cards. It was always one of the hottest Ravnica cards, before most people had even heard of 'EDH'. And now it's even more valuable than Dark Confidant, which is a top tier staple in every competitive format and was subsequently printed at mythic not rare.
Glimpse the Unthinkable is another great example from Ravnica, has never seen any serious competitive play and it has consistently been one of the most valuable cards in the set because casual players love mill.
Both of those cards had better be in this set or Wizards has no idea what 'iconic' means.
-Fake Blurb
That is what I imagine being in something that calls itself "Iconic Masters".
Iconic would be a 300+ card set that is 1/3 of each rarity (common, uncommon, rare(s)). I swear the Urza block or some of those old sets were 1/3 each rarity right? (open question) Now that would be an iconic Master's set.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-general/334931-what-is-the-most-pimp-card-deck-youve-seen-or?comment=5361
Commander
RGOmnath, Locus of Rage Grenades! EDHGR
UWSygg's Defense, EDH - Voltron & ControlWU
BUGMimeoplasm EDH ft. Ifnir Cycling-discard comboBUG
WBTeysa, Connoisseur of CullingBW
BWSelenia & Recruiter of the Guard suicice combo EDHWB
UBRWGO-Kagachi - 5 Color Enchantments - EDHUBRWG
Though since a good number of iconic removal and permission is cheap, how will they balance that against the more expensive iconic creatures in the set? Gonna be hard to build around big creatures with Swords to Plowshares or Path to Exile in the format. Shoot, even Plummet will be a contender in a set full of big fliers.
There's also the matter of iconic spells with overlap. Do we really need Lightning Bolt and Lightning Helix in the same set?
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
WBG Karador GBW
R Daretti R
RG Omnath GR
WRG Modern Burn GRW
WB Modern Tokens BW
DCI Rules Advisor as of 5/18/2015
The old sets used to all be 363 cards. Cards are printed on sheets of 121 (11 x 11). There used to be 1 sheet of each rarity and each card only appeared once. That was for large sets. Smaller sets only used common and uncommon sheets and then had multiple cards that would appear more than once. For instance there are no real "rare" cards in Arabians or Antiquities, just cards that appeared on the uncommon sheet once and those that were there 3 times. All the "U1" cards were considered "rare" but came in the uncommon slots in packs. This all stopped at least 15 years ago.
Today most sets have 1 rare sheet and each "rare" appears on the sheet twice (53 x 2) and each "mythic" once (15 x 1). So each mythic is only as rare as all the old rares used to be and each new rare is twice as common as old rares.
And that doesn't account for the fact that they print more of each set now than they did in the past.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-general/334931-what-is-the-most-pimp-card-deck-youve-seen-or?comment=5361
Commander
RGOmnath, Locus of Rage Grenades! EDHGR
UWSygg's Defense, EDH - Voltron & ControlWU
BUGMimeoplasm EDH ft. Ifnir Cycling-discard comboBUG
WBTeysa, Connoisseur of CullingBW
BWSelenia & Recruiter of the Guard suicice combo EDHWB
UBRWGO-Kagachi - 5 Color Enchantments - EDHUBRWG
Doubling Season
Crucible of Worlds
Phyrexian Tower
Pact of Negation
Mana Drain
Force of Will
Scroll Rack
some or all the classic tutors (Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, etc.)
Portal cards (Temporal Manipulation, Three Visits, etc.)
Any hope for other cool portal goodies? Imperial Recruiter, Three Visits, Loyal Retainers and the like?
Blue lives don't matter in the slightest.
I always assume that they will keep the lists of reprints from Masterpiece-series and Masters-products during a given year-span mutually exclusive so the products don't steal each others thunder.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
101 Commons
80 Uncommons
53 Rares
15 Mythic Rares
When suggesting reprints and multicolor cards, we should keep this in mind. I think it's safe to assume each iconic creature gets at least one mythic rare. There are plenty of mythic Angels, Demons, and Dragons I'd happily suggest for this product; problem is, there are too many I could suggest, there isn't enough room for all of them at mythic. And the competition for rare slots will likewise be quite stiff between iconic creatures, support for iconic creatures, and reprints of iconic spells. I don't expect every single iconic card ever in this set, just a good number of them to help fill out a draft and provide some post-draft value.
On the practical side, there will of course be the ten draft uncommons, though depending on how many multicolor cards they're willing to include it might be a bit trickier to determine what those are. Since this isn't a multicolor themed set, most of the multicolor cards will likely be uncommon or higher.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Bumped down to common. Super powerful limited environment :-D
Custom Set
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hu9uNBSUt92PwGhvexYlwFvsh6_SJBlEEIUV3H9_XyU/edit?usp=sharing
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
There is going to have to be a grand reckoning on reprints for the entirety of Time spiral to early Zendikar because there aren't enough of those cards in circulation to keep prices in check at all. Bloom Tender and Painter's Servant are two victims of the modern metagame spiking prices and drawing the attention of speculators. At this point no one really is getting their money's worth out of buying high cost cards on the secondary market, though.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
Is that a strict rule or just how it has been so far? How about doing the full set in the old frame since its a supplemental set with a limited run? They seem to be open to using different frames more often; it would certainly be 'Iconic' and play into the old school feel of no spoilers etc. probably just wishful thinking on my part though.
1000x yes.
It would be cool if they did that with legacy and edh cards.
How cool would it be to open an old-frame deathrite shaman
pucatrade
big receipts
alpha mox emerald
beta time walk
4 goyfs received
3 liliana of the veil
4 karn liberated
3 force of will
4 grove of the burnwillows
snapcaster mage
3 horizon canopy
2 full art damnation
Old frame Masterpieces would make sense for a return to Dominaria block.