It's definitively not clerics (as much as I want it to be), and it doesn't read like rogues or wizards would. And the image has similarities to the Vesuvan shapeshifters (check out this image from Sarpadian Empires). Outside of it being some other viking thing, Vesuvan shapeshifter makes the most sense..
You aren't supposed to find real support for goofy stupid guesses like Shapeshifters. Seriously it is likely to be Wizards, I think the art team needs a good talking to with that art for a Wizard though.
Shapeshifters are one of my favourite creature types, up there with Sphinxes.
If this is Shapeshifter.dek, and they do good by this, I'd be pretty stoked. What would be the best way to make a deck out of creatures that copy other creatures (and possibly other permanent types) though?
Shapeshifters are one of my favourite creature types, up there with Sphinxes.
If this is Shapeshifter.dek, and they do good by this, I'd be pretty stoked. What would be the best way to make a deck out of creatures that copy other creatures (and possibly other permanent types) though?
Flicker Effects, a few creatures with powerful ETB effects, Panharnomicon. I think Control/Value town would be the best way to go about it. Use your Opponent's strongest creatures against them with your Value and Control effects to twist things to your advantage.
If you ever played the online game Elements, it used (essentially) hexproof creatures and Clone effects for the Aether deck. Playing against a copy of your deck with untargetable creatures can be harder than it sounds.
A shapeshifter deck with simply a Hexproof Clone commander would go rather far. I'd like to see double strike added, mostly for the flavor, but I feel like a legendary cmc 4 clone with hex is more than playable.
Or maybe a Clone commander that has the added ability to pick a new target while on the battlefield. That would be fun. I'd say built in flicker, but I fear that would be too powerful...or would it?
It's definitively not clerics (as much as I want it to be), and it doesn't read like rogues or wizards would. And the image has similarities to the Vesuvan shapeshifters (check out this image from Sarpadian Empires). Outside of it being some other viking thing, Vesuvan shapeshifter makes the most sense.
And man, it's a tribal theme, but it makes absolutely no sense why a type that could be any tribe would get put in there. Sure, lol. They definitely haven't done that in Tribal-centric sets, right?
"I don't like it therefore it is illogical" isn't a really compelling argument.
The biggest hurdle for shapeshifters, to me, is the difficulty in creating tribal cards for them that actually work. Since most are clones, they typically won't be shapeshifters on the field, so any sort of ability that targets or effects shapeshifters on the field won't work. That includes shapeshifter specific flickering and such. One possible exception might be if replacement effects could consult their creature type. Obviously effects that mess with their cost in hand or when you cast triggers could work, but the issue is that there's limited design space there. So while I don't think it's impossible they did shapeshifters, it definitely would have been a difficult design challenge to give themselves.
If you ever played the online game Elements, it used (essentially) hexproof creatures and Clone effects for the Aether deck. Playing against a copy of your deck with untargetable creatures can be harder than it sounds.
A shapeshifter deck with simply a Hexproof Clone commander would go rather far. I'd like to see double strike added, mostly for the flavor, but I feel like a legendary cmc 4 clone with hex is more than playable.
Or maybe a Clone commander that has the added ability to pick a new target while on the battlefield. That would be fun. I'd say built in flicker, but I fear that would be too powerful...or would it?
Depending on the mana cost and speed of the flicker it could be quite obscene, Ramping into "Hey I am clone your Thragtusk 3 times at the end step before my turn." would be bad.
The biggest hurdle for shapeshifters, to me, is the difficulty in creating tribal cards for them that actually work. Since most are clones, they typically won't be shapeshifters on the field, so any sort of ability that targets or effects shapeshifters on the field won't work. That includes shapeshifter specific flickering and such. One possible exception might be if replacement effects could consult their creature type. Obviously effects that mess with their cost in hand or when you cast triggers could work, but the issue is that there's limited design space there. So while I don't think it's impossible they did shapeshifters, it definitely would have been a difficult design challenge to give themselves.
There are some unique design spaces that they could use though, A lord that gives shapeshifters in your hand flash for instance could be a thing, which could be fun depending on the field state. "Oh someone has a Mystic Snake so I can potentially counter a problem spell." or "Drop a Clone on a Noxious Gearhulk after attacks are declared."
I made an EDH deck centering around Control Magic.That was hard. Shapeshifters and clones sounds like a breeze to me in comparison, and far less oppressive to the other players (as well as far less likely to lose the game to Tranquility).
Going by that sorcery-looking circle, pretty safe to say it's Grixis Wizards. Here's hoping the abilities are interesting, though not sure what I'd want with how general wizard abilities seem to be, especially on legendary creatures.
Going by that sorcery-looking circle, pretty safe to say it's Grixis Wizards. Here's hoping the abilities are interesting, though not sure what I'd want with how general wizard abilities seem to be, especially on legendary creatures.
Ultra Pro has product listings for the new C17 stuff and that full body art is the sleeves for her deck. It's not just an aura circle as you can see the wizards in the back all touching linked to it. It's a ritual circle like her "Arcane Ritualist" name would suggest.
It's definitively not clerics (as much as I want it to be), and it doesn't read like rogues or wizards would. And the image has similarities to the Vesuvan shapeshifters (check out this image from Sarpadian Empires). Outside of it being some other viking thing, Vesuvan shapeshifter makes the most sense.
And man, it's a tribal theme, but it makes absolutely no sense why a type that could be any tribe would get put in there. Sure, lol. They definitely haven't done that in Tribal-centric sets, right?
"I don't like it therefore it is illogical" isn't a really compelling argument.
Are you sure?
That's a nice aura circle she's in
And those cloaked dudes are touching the aura like they are making it
Ultra Pro has product listings for the new C17 stuff and that full body art is the sleeves for her deck. It's not just an aura circle as you can see the wizards in the back all touching linked to it. It's a ritual circle like her "Arcane Ritualist" name would suggest.
Link? I'm sure someone could data mine info from the site.
I'm just curious how you can even tribally support shapeshifters, do they get a lord that just says "Each creature you control that is a copy of another creature gets +1+1"? I mean a deck of clone effects is an awesome idea I just find it hard to give a tribal unity/support to a creature type that only exists to copy other creature types.
Many shape shifters are not clones, aetherling, morphling, the changelings, things like aquamorph entity, Crag Puca, primal clay, primal plasma, or even cards like renegade doppelgänger that become copies until end of turn.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
(U/B) is :symbu: or :symub: and the same is true for the other 9 hybrid symbols with their two colors in for the last 2 leters of the code. ((2/B) and co are :sym2b:)
Alternatively {UB} or {2B} in [mana] tags are (U/B) or (2/B) T is :symtap: and T will give T in [mana] tags
This page forward is definitive proof that those 4 images are not only real, but are the face cards. I know we were all pretty sure, but since they are on the UltraPro site, we know for sure now.
It is fine for you to speculate but saying how much it sucks to have to repeat your self when someone brings up the idea of 4 avatars isn't speculation it is just being a jerk.
It's annoying when people don't read posts made before theirs, and end up just retreading old ground. If you think me airing grievances is being a jerk, then you need to grow a thicker skin. There's some awful ***** in this world, and people being honest with what grinds their gears is small potatoes.
Acting like your "Speculation" is so much more valid than others is in fact *****ting on people.
I'm not acting like that any more than you.
There is no Logical flaw in "Hey we got 2 Avatars with Eminence, WOTC likes patterns so the other 2 might be Avatars with eminence." The key word there is might.
That'd be great if that had been how you and Life_Weaver were presenting your arguments. But you haven't. You've both been stubbornly insisting that they have to be avatars.
"But they might not." isn't evidence. Magic going back to it's very first set has tended to do things in groups, Ancestral Recall was part of a cycle.
"But they might." isn't evidence, either. Magic going back to its very first set has tended to do one-of cards, and uneven cycles; we got Goblin King, Lord of Atlantis, and Zombie Master in Alpha, but the costs and abilities didn't all match up, and the set didn't have a green or white equivalent.
Don't you see? It doesn't matter how many cycles you present as evidence; there are at least as many cards that aren't part of a cycle, or part of an incomplete cycle, or part of a mirrored pair. Or part of a loose cycle, where there are much bigger differences than, y'know, not every member of the cycle sharing a creature type.
And your point is? Edgar Markov might not be the "Central card" of the deck.
And even if he isn't, the face card still doesn't need to be an avatar.
We have no real evidence that the guy on the Banner is Edgar Markov,
Sure, he might not be Edgar, but he definitely is an Innistradi vampire. An important one, based on how he's being attended to. Even if he's someone else, though, none of the vampires of Innistrad are what I'd call avatars.
after all he is a bit of a small fry to really be headlining a tribe in terms of importance on a Planar level.
And? Literally none of the other commander series put any emphasis on making sure that the face cards were on equal influential standing.
He affected one plane.
And? The Ur-Dragon has never even been mentioned outside of Dominaria. And we know nothing of Arahbo; certainly nothing to indicate that he has an interplanar presence.
And you are missing everyone else's point that just because they did something odd once doesn't mean they will do it again
Once? They do odd stuff with cycles all the time. I'm not missing that point; I'm constantly addressing it. One of the things I've been repeating the most has been how history has shown that WotC doesn't always hew too closely to a specific pattern with cycles, and will change variables as needed.
especially considering they have a far larger history of following design patterns in the new commander cards than not, pointing out that "The experience commanders." did different things based on their experience counters doesn't change that they were a cycle of Enemy Colored commanders that used their experience counters to follow the themes of their colors.
This, really, seems to be your primary problem. You're equating the avatar creature type with something central to the design of these cards. It's not. The avatar type is practically flavor text.
Going by that sorcery-looking circle, pretty safe to say it's Grixis Wizards. Here's hoping the abilities are interesting, though not sure what I'd want with how general wizard abilities seem to be, especially on legendary creatures.
Going by that sorcery-looking circle, pretty safe to say it's Grixis Wizards. Here's hoping the abilities are interesting, though not sure what I'd want with how general wizard abilities seem to be, especially on legendary creatures.
Going by that sorcery-looking circle, pretty safe to say it's Grixis Wizards. Here's hoping the abilities are interesting, though not sure what I'd want with how general wizard abilities seem to be, especially on legendary creatures.
What I don't get it is, if he spoiled the dragon as he claims, why didn't he dump the other at the same time. Also, why would he admit to something like that to other people, and not either pass on the picture to another to leak of he was worried about MTG legal or just do it himself? It's suspicious at best imo, most leakers don't let their Facebook profile name get passed around, far as I know.
What I don't get it is, if he spoiled the dragon as he claims, why didn't he dump the other at the same time. Also, why would he admit to something like that to other people, and not either pass on the picture to another to leak of he was worried about MTG legal or just do it himself? It's suspicious at best imo, most leakers don't let their Facebook profile name get passed around, far as I know.
Now that we can see that the guys in the background are not bowing, but casting a magic circle, wizards being the fourth tribe is starting to seem a lot more likely.
Now that we can see that the guys in the background are not bowing, but casting a magic circle, wizards being the fourth tribe is starting to seem a lot more likely.
Agreed, this is the first clear image we have seen so far. If we are to now assume wizard, grixis/Esper (probably grixis given a lot of Izzet wizards), then who/what are the other two commanders in this set going to be if she is (probably) Human? Zombie doesn't answer the problem Amonkhet brought, but I like the idea of demon maybe, especially since this is a "class" deck and not a "species" deck.
It's definitively not clerics (as much as I want it to be), and it doesn't read like rogues or wizards would. And the image has similarities to the Vesuvan shapeshifters (check out this image from Sarpadian Empires). Outside of it being some other viking thing, Vesuvan shapeshifter makes the most sense.
And man, it's a tribal theme, but it makes absolutely no sense why a type that could be any tribe would get put in there. Sure, lol. They definitely haven't done that in Tribal-centric sets, right?
"I don't like it therefore it is illogical" isn't a really compelling argument.
That image you linked is a real stretch to say that it could be Shapeshifter tribal.
- The two cards selected do not show us at all what a shapeshifter looks like. They show us what a shapeshifter copied.
- The particular elements circled are a cloak clasp and a hat/hood. So, common fashion design?
Don't get me wrong, I love shapeshifters/clones and even have a Lazav tribal clone Commander deck. I just find that image a ludicrous stretch.
Now that we can see that the guys in the background are not bowing, but casting a magic circle, wizards being the fourth tribe is starting to seem a lot more likely.
Agreed, this is the first clear image we have seen so far. If we are to now assume wizard, grixis/Esper (probably grixis given a lot of Izzet wizards), then who/what are the other two commanders in this set going to be if she is (probably) Human? Zombie doesn't answer the problem Amonkhet brought, but I like the idea of demon maybe, especially since this is a "class" deck and not a "species" deck.
Yep. Wizards seems more probable. Unless it's a Vesuvan shapeshifter being created/emerging. But... it's hard to say.
You aren't supposed to find real support for goofy stupid guesses like Shapeshifters. Seriously it is likely to be Wizards, I think the art team needs a good talking to with that art for a Wizard though.
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
The Gitrog Monster
Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
Hive World
Atraxa hates fun
Abzan
If this is Shapeshifter.dek, and they do good by this, I'd be pretty stoked. What would be the best way to make a deck out of creatures that copy other creatures (and possibly other permanent types) though?
Flicker Effects, a few creatures with powerful ETB effects, Panharnomicon. I think Control/Value town would be the best way to go about it. Use your Opponent's strongest creatures against them with your Value and Control effects to twist things to your advantage.
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
The Gitrog Monster
Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
Hive World
Atraxa hates fun
Abzan
A shapeshifter deck with simply a Hexproof Clone commander would go rather far. I'd like to see double strike added, mostly for the flavor, but I feel like a legendary cmc 4 clone with hex is more than playable.
Or maybe a Clone commander that has the added ability to pick a new target while on the battlefield. That would be fun. I'd say built in flicker, but I fear that would be too powerful...or would it?
Depending on the mana cost and speed of the flicker it could be quite obscene, Ramping into "Hey I am clone your Thragtusk 3 times at the end step before my turn." would be bad.
There are some unique design spaces that they could use though, A lord that gives shapeshifters in your hand flash for instance could be a thing, which could be fun depending on the field state. "Oh someone has a Mystic Snake so I can potentially counter a problem spell." or "Drop a Clone on a Noxious Gearhulk after attacks are declared."
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
The Gitrog Monster
Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
Hive World
Atraxa hates fun
Abzan
She's in a aura circle
We are down to two tribes
Wizards or cleric
So where did you get this image?
Second times a charm but source?
I saw the post from the same induvidual on fb. I am still pretty skeptical myself.
Are you sure?
That's a nice aura circle she's in
And those cloaked dudes are touching the aura like they are making it
Looks like wizards or cleric is are winner.
Link? I'm sure someone could data mine info from the site.
Edit: Found It!
http://www.ultrapro.com/product_info.php?products_id=5163
Alternatively {UB} or {2B} in [mana] tags are (U/B) or (2/B)
T is :symtap: and T will give T in [mana] tags
http://www.ultrapro.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=magic&search_in_description=1&sort=2a&page=7
Hopefully someone better at data mining can find out names of the cards and see if she is in fact the wizard that was claimed, and if that is Edgar.
I'm not acting like that any more than you.
That'd be great if that had been how you and Life_Weaver were presenting your arguments. But you haven't. You've both been stubbornly insisting that they have to be avatars.
"But they might." isn't evidence, either. Magic going back to its very first set has tended to do one-of cards, and uneven cycles; we got Goblin King, Lord of Atlantis, and Zombie Master in Alpha, but the costs and abilities didn't all match up, and the set didn't have a green or white equivalent.
Don't you see? It doesn't matter how many cycles you present as evidence; there are at least as many cards that aren't part of a cycle, or part of an incomplete cycle, or part of a mirrored pair. Or part of a loose cycle, where there are much bigger differences than, y'know, not every member of the cycle sharing a creature type.
And even if he isn't, the face card still doesn't need to be an avatar.
Sure, he might not be Edgar, but he definitely is an Innistradi vampire. An important one, based on how he's being attended to. Even if he's someone else, though, none of the vampires of Innistrad are what I'd call avatars.
And? Literally none of the other commander series put any emphasis on making sure that the face cards were on equal influential standing.
And? The Ur-Dragon has never even been mentioned outside of Dominaria. And we know nothing of Arahbo; certainly nothing to indicate that he has an interplanar presence.
Once? They do odd stuff with cycles all the time. I'm not missing that point; I'm constantly addressing it. One of the things I've been repeating the most has been how history has shown that WotC doesn't always hew too closely to a specific pattern with cycles, and will change variables as needed.
This, really, seems to be your primary problem. You're equating the avatar creature type with something central to the design of these cards. It's not. The avatar type is practically flavor text.
Was just about to link you to that very image (as well as the other screengrab shared in Magic Rocks My World.) Still for the random onlooker, I'm talking about comments within this thread: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1613059062046131&id=916563408362370
Ironically, I found it through the exact same source on that fb page.
Looking at that
If he's telling the truth go evel knievel and show the card.
Agreed, hence why I am skeptical.
Agreed, this is the first clear image we have seen so far. If we are to now assume wizard, grixis/Esper (probably grixis given a lot of Izzet wizards), then who/what are the other two commanders in this set going to be if she is (probably) Human? Zombie doesn't answer the problem Amonkhet brought, but I like the idea of demon maybe, especially since this is a "class" deck and not a "species" deck.
- The two cards selected do not show us at all what a shapeshifter looks like. They show us what a shapeshifter copied.
- The particular elements circled are a cloak clasp and a hat/hood. So, common fashion design?
Don't get me wrong, I love shapeshifters/clones and even have a Lazav tribal clone Commander deck. I just find that image a ludicrous stretch.
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