Crap. No it wasn't you man, sorry.Somebody a page or so back made that claim. I pretty much agree entirely with what you were saying...
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Modern GB Rock U Flooding Merfolk RUG Delver Midrange WU Monks UW Tempo Geist GW Bogle GW Liege UR Tron B Vampires
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Goblins
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Affinity EDH W Akroma GBW Ghave BRU Thrax GR Ruric I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
Card is good, will see play in Standard, may see fringe modern play. Definitely better than "kitchen table"
The "dies to removal" argument is close to irrelevant as practically 95% of all creatures in Modern "die to removal". And yes this card dies to most all of them, but other Tier level creatures do as well. Argument should be whether it provides enough pressure or tempo to warrant removal or not. Its also a fallacy to assume your opponent ALWAYS has removal in hand. On top of that I'm imagining a scenario where Tarmogoyf, Scavenging Ooze, Siege Rhino or some other creature has already been played that will attract the removal first.
Technically true, but misleading. Of the format defining Modern creatures, only Eldrazi cost more than 2 mana without a protection effect, ETB ability or massive cost-reducer/alternate casting mode. And they have inherent cost reduction from Eldrazi Temple. Zero creatures make that list that in practice cost over 2, die to bolt, and fail to get value through 1-for-1 removal.
"Dies to removal" is a real thing. There's a reson you don't see Phyrexian Obliterators winning many games.
The "dies to removal" argument is close to irrelevant as practically 95% of all creatures in Modern "die to removal". And yes this card dies to most all of them, but other Tier level creatures do as well. Argument should be whether it provides enough pressure or tempo to warrant removal or not. Its also a fallacy to assume your opponent ALWAYS has removal in hand. On top of that I'm imagining a scenario where Tarmogoyf, Scavenging Ooze, Siege Rhino or some other creature has already been played that will attract the removal first.
Blatantly false. Not only is the argument relevant, but it's also disingenuous to think otherwise. The other creatures in Modern that die to removal either yield immediate advantage via EtB (Thought-Knot Seer, Snapcaster Mage), the removal costs the same or more resources to kill the threat (BG or W + a land in the case of Tarmogoyf / Scavenging Ooze), are outright impervious to most forms of common removal Primeval Titan, Tasigur, the Golden Fang) or at the very least, you come out neutral on tempo because the removal costs the same as the threat (Delver of Secrets, the suite of Affinity's creatures). To imply that the creature dying to ANY removal without providing an advantage AND setting your tempo way back is "irrelevant" is disingenuous and shows that either you don't play Modern or don't know about deck construction. And yes, it's expected of you to think that the opponent has always removal at hand at all times and play accordingly, especially when your gameplays revolves around a single tap-out, do-nothing creature surviving until your next turn in order to win.
I don't think anyone is saying this is top level, Tier 1 auto-include. I think people are saying it will make it into some fringe play and it may pop up eventually in a more dedicated competitive deck designed with stuff like Through the Breach. Modern is full of cards that cheat stuff into play or cheat on mana. This card is in that vein. To think that people won't try to exploit that eventually is denying what actually happens in the format. Brewers usually look for a card density to make something work. Who knows, with this and Elvish Piper that density just went up. Is it going to happen right away? Probably not. Will it happen eventually? My money on it says yes. The card isn't crap, it isn't god-like. It has POTENTIAL. How much remains to be seen. I'm done arguing the point.
Again, this shows you don't understand modern as a format. Cards that cheat stuff into play or cheat on mana are good if they're appropriately costed and can do it right away. This is neither of them. There's a reason why Elvish Piper hasn't appeared on any list in any top 8 ever, or why Breach / Goryo decks don't run it already. This is barely an upgrade over it and definitely not any game breaking tech, and I can't think a single reason about why you would want to play this, but not Piper. What you're saying is that you expect that eventually someone jams some copies of a 4 mana do nothing creature that half of the decks will kill with basically any removal available except for Abrupt Decay or outright ignore and win over it because you did nothing on your turn like Affinity or Burn.
Seriously, sometimes I think people would defend a 10 CMC do nothing sorcery that would let you put a permanent from your hand into play because "historically cheating things into play / cheating on mana has been broken". No, it has not. It's only broken when it's resilient, playable and appropriately costed.
Again, this shows you don't understand modern as a format.
You should take that joke on the road. You've missed your calling in life.
I won't argue with close-minded "know-everythings".
We have to agree to disagree and move on, plain and simple. We will know an answer in a few months. We will see who is right and who is wrong. Feel free to check back by Fall. I won't argue with you so debase, detract and name-call away if it makes you feel good.
"Dies to removal" is a real thing. There's a reson you don't see Phyrexian Obliterators winning many games.
Agreed to a point. There just isn't enough support in mono-black to make the card more competitive at this time. Although I have seen some mono black devotion lists that look like they are getting close.
Again no one is saying this card is format defining, top level, top 50 used card in Modern. It will find its way in somewhere and there may be support or synergy coming in a set in the near future. Unbelievable that some people get their panties in such a twist when someone thinks differently than themselves. I'm fine with people who think its trash. To each their own. But understand there IS dissenting opinion. Deal with it and move on.
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
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The above comments are why I hate modern. Just people thinking they know the format like the back of their hand and trying to shove it down people's throats.
Modern or not, this is a fun card and I'll probably try to brew up a cool RG Stompy deck with it. It's also definitely going to find a home in my Commander decks...
The above comments are why I hate modern. Just people thinking they know the format like the back of their hand and trying to shove it down people's throats.
Modern or not, this is a fun card and I'll probably try to brew up a cool RG Stompy deck with it. It's also definitely going to find a home in my Commander decks...
.
But everyone who's said this is bad in Modern has also said this card is fun and has a place in Magic. Saying a card is bad in a competitive formats is not a bad thing. It's just a factual statement.
To answer an earlier post, I did not say that 4 Mana cards needed to win the game to be playable in Modern. I said they needed to win the game OR provide card advantage. Thought-Knot Seer can do both. Reality Smasher can do both. When Splinter Twin was legal, it could do both. Karn, Wurmcoil, and Ugin do both. Scapeshift wins the game. Empty wins the game. Bloodbraid provided card advantage. Wrath provides card advantage.
Those are the cards this card has to compete with, and it doesn't do so on any level. It can provide card advantage, but relies on a 2nd card to do so AND needs to survive and entire turn. Compare this to Splinter Twin. While it did rely on a 2nd creature, it won the game immediately. You didn't have to wait and hope your creature didn't get bolted when the opponent tapped out.
Good card is bad in competitive. Nothing wrong with that.
I find this interesting because I feel like if I were going to use this card, I would want to put it in a shell that can enable it with haste, because frankly I think it needs it to do anything in most cases, but also one that can but that shell would also need to have creatures that you would want to cheat in with this and still be viable after you've sided this out for game 2 because, once again, frankly, this seems much less effective once your opponent knows it's coming. Even if you haste it in at that point, they'd probably have instant speed removal ready for it.
It's a Johnny/Timmy card if I've ever seen one.
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"Pop in, find a dragon, roast a dragon."
-Chandra Nalaar
Doesn't seem right a Desert world where Green is getting the power houses.
(Admittedly, in Arabian Nights, there might be another reason: Green was Muhammad's favorite color.)
You realize the mythology present in Arabian Nights predates Islam by many centuries, yes?
I cringe every time someone implies Aladdin was Muslim.
I'm fully aware. But I'm also fully aware that the most common translations into English and French did not.
And yeah, I always found it funny that the story of Aladdin takes place in China in those same translations, but Disney's version looks vaguely Persian. LOL
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Turn 4: do it again and laugh while you cry because you don't have any removal left (Ps the cards you are trying to talk about are called Lightning Bolt, Path to Exile, Fatal Push and Dismember)
The problem is that the card is just fundamentally too slow for a format like modern. If it had haste, or cost 3, or could protect itself in some way it would probably find a home. But having to wait an entire turn to attack, and then also having to have a relevant creature in hand, and then also having your opponent not do anything the turn afterwards is a tall order. Most of the time, either it will die, or the creature it summons will die and you'll be too far back in tempo to ever recover.
I honestly don't see this card being primarily used to cheat big fatties into play. I see it having a central place in Standard in a G/x aggro/midrange deck for pure value. Being able to just cheat another creature into play from your hand on turn 3/4 is really good and something Standard hasn't seen in awhile.
Honestly, you can tell if a creature is good if the opponent absolutely MUST remove it as soon as it hits the board. This demands an immediate answer, and without one, the opponent is going to fall behind.
I would almost recommend picking up some Lifecrafter's Bestiaries while they are cheap, since the card is really good in a heavy green-based creature decks.
*sigh* guys, come on. this isn't a Modern card. the format is largely too fast and the decks that aren't are the ones packing more removal. it's a very hostile format for something like this. it'll likely see Standard play after BFZ rotates, I see it being part of a top deck at that point. I also see it being really excellent as psuedo-ramp/card advantage in EDH, where in my mock up it's really good, but barring another card in the next few sets that makes it much better, I don't think it has any realistic chance of being a player in Modern....now give me my copy for EDH!
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Project Booster Fun makes it less fun to open a booster.
Quick question: if you drop Craterhoof off of this, can the craterhoof swing with the CoR? It comes in off of the exert trigger so is that attack underway by the time CHB hits? Same for the soulbound wolfir guy? Thanks in advance.
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Modern GB Rock U Flooding Merfolk RUG Delver Midrange WU Monks UW Tempo Geist GW Bogle GW Liege UR Tron B Vampires
Affinity Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity EDH W Akroma GBW Ghave BRU Thrax GR Ruric I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
This card is nowhere close to modern playable.... and probably isn't even standard playable. The notion of this being played in modern makes me chuckle. Gideon Ally of Zendikar is barely playable in modern...
Quick question: if you drop Craterhoof off of this, can the craterhoof swing with the CoR? It comes in off of the exert trigger so is that attack underway by the time CHB hits? Same for the soulbound wolfir guy? Thanks in advance.
Abilities that trigger when attacking happen after attackers are declared. The creature you get to cheat in from this cannot attack.
But since CHB ETBs before blockers are declared etc, CoR would still receive the buff, correct?
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Modern GB Rock U Flooding Merfolk RUG Delver Midrange WU Monks UW Tempo Geist GW Bogle GW Liege UR Tron B Vampires
Affinity Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity EDH W Akroma GBW Ghave BRU Thrax GR Ruric I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
But since CHB ETBs before blockers are declared etc, CoR would still receive the buff, correct?
Yeah, abilities that trigger when attacking happen after attackers are declared right before the declare blockers step so Craterhoof Behemoth will be in play and its ability will trigger before declare blockers.
Modern GB Rock U Flooding Merfolk RUG Delver Midrange WU Monks UW Tempo Geist GW Bogle GW Liege UR Tron B Vampires
Affinity Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity EDH W Akroma GBW Ghave BRU Thrax GR Ruric I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
Turn 4: do it again and laugh while you cry because you don't have any removal left (Ps the cards you are trying to talk about are called Lightning Bolt, Path to Exile, Fatal Push and Dismember)
Trying to correct someone about format staples when they have a better grasp on the format than you do is hilarious.
Every Magical Christmasland scenario described for this card involves jumping through multiple hoops, having multiple precise cards in hand, and still typically doesn't do anything until turn 3 or 4. Look at the decks that are played in Modern:
Death's Shadow runs 8 targeted discard spells in its main deck and will typically both use one and have a 5 power creature in play by turn 2.
Abzan and Jund run 6+, plus 12+ removal spells for this guy to fiht through before doing anything.
Dredge and affinity often have 12 power on board turn 3, which other decks need to be able to interact with or race.
Storm variants go off turn 2-3 if they aren't facing interaction.
Eldrazi runs playsets of Paths, Thought-Knots and Displacers, all of whom blank this guy.
Scapeshift runs Primetime out at the same speed as this guy, but more reliably and without depending on other draws for Titan to win the game.
A deck built around Champion needs to either A) manage to be fast enough or interactive enough to grt on board against these decks, B) actually be able to stick and attack with Champion even through removal and discard, C) have a high enough density of high enough impact fatties for Champion to do something and D) actually draw/tutor and keep those fatties in hand through Thoughtseizes, Cliques and Thought-Knots long enough to actually cheat them in.
Like everyone says, fun kitchen table card. It might do something cool once in a while in a draft deck. But absolutely no place in Modern, and Standard is optimistic.
Please take it to a tournament and prove us wrong. I'll be holding my breath to see it break to 32 anywhere.
Turn 4: do it again and laugh while you cry because you don't have any removal left (Ps the cards you are trying to talk about are called Lightning Bolt, Path to Exile, Fatal Push and Dismember)
Trying to correct someone about format staples when they have a better grasp on the format than you do is hilarious.
Every Magical Christmasland scenario described for this card involves jumping through multiple hoops, having multiple precise cards in hand, and still typically doesn't do anything until turn 3 or 4. Look at the decks that are played in Modern:
Death's Shadow runs 8 targeted discard spells in its main deck and will typically both use one and have a 5 power creature in play by turn 2.
Abzan and Jund run 6+, plus 12+ removal spells for this guy to fiht through before doing anything.
Dredge and affinity often have 12 power on board turn 3, which other decks need to be able to interact with or race.
Storm variants go off turn 2-3 if they aren't facing interaction.
Eldrazi runs playsets of Paths, Thought-Knots and Displacers, all of whom blank this guy.
Scapeshift runs Primetime out at the same speed as this guy, but more reliably and without depending on other draws for Titan to win the game.
A deck built around Champion needs to either A) manage to be fast enough or interactive enough to grt on board against these decks, B) actually be able to stick and attack with Champion even through removal and discard, C) have a high enough density of high enough impact fatties for Champion to do something and D) actually draw/tutor and keep those fatties in hand through Thoughtseizes, Cliques and Thought-Knots long enough to actually cheat them in.
Like everyone says, fun kitchen table card. It might do something cool once in a while in a draft deck. But absolutely no place in Modern, and Standard is optimistic.
Please take it to a tournament and prove us wrong. I'll be holding my breath to see it break to 32 anywhere.
Trying to correct someone about format staples when they have a better grasp on the format than you do is hilarious
Everybody talking about this card being bad in Modern because it dies to Lightning Bolt or Doom Blade or whatever: That's why you pump it up and protect it. A lot of creatures die to Bolt and Blade, that's why they see play in competitive formats (and I would argue are detrimental because they warp what kinds of creatures get to see regular play at competitive levels). Bolt can easily be worked around using a simple anthem effect like Hall of Triumph or Metallic Mimic. As for the straight destroy and exile effects, you can give Champion hexproof and haste using good ol' Lightning Greaves. Don't forget that Prowling Serpopard counteracts permission.
What really irritates me about "bad in Modern" comments is how these cards are always judged as though they aren't being played with any kind of support, as though someone was just trying to fit them into an existing archtype instead of, I dunno, creating a new archtype around the card? Square pegs don't fit into round holes, folks. You need to find a square hole.
As for me, this is a new auto-include in pretty much any green aggro commander deck ever. Give 'em Haste, Hexproof, and Indestructible and watch your opponents pull their hair out at your nigh-implacable cheatstick.
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MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
I don't really know why wizards keeps playing around with free casting. It's fun in casual, but in competitive play people will always inevitably find a way to break any constructed playable free cast card. They either get brain in a jar or they make aetherworks marvel.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Everybody talking about this card being bad in Modern because it dies to Lightning Bolt or Doom Blade or whatever: That's why you pump it up and protect it. A lot of creatures die to Bolt and Blade, that's why they see play in competitive formats (and I would argue are detrimental because they warp what kinds of creatures get to see regular play at competitive levels).
They also give value upon entering or leaving the battlefield or cost the same mana as the answer and thus you remain Tempo neutral.
Bolt can easily be worked around using a simple anthem effect like Hall of Triumph or Metallic Mimic. As for the straight destroy and exile effects, you can give Champion hexproof and haste using good ol' Lightning Greaves. Don't forget that Prowling Serpopard counteracts permission.
So you're using even more bad cards to support the initial bad card? What happens when you draw Hall of Triumph or Lightning Greaves but you don't draw Champion? What happens when it eats a Path, a Dismember, a Push or a Terminate anyways? What happens when you face hand disruption like Thoughtseize or Thought-Knot Seer?
What really irritates me about "bad in Modern" comments is how these cards are always judged as though they aren't being played with any kind of support, as though someone was just trying to fit them into an existing archtype instead of, I dunno, creating a new archtype around the card? Square pegs don't fit into round holes, folks. You need to find a square hole.
Except it wouldn't be a new archetype created around the card. It would be cheating into play fatties long before they should be able to hit the battlefield, which is an already existing one in Breach/Goryo decks, where Champion doesn't fit. If you design a deck based on the same principle around Champion then you're a worse Breach/Goryo deck by default.
Stop trying to make it work, people. Elvish Piper won't start seeing play just because it's now a 3/3 that triggers on attacking.
Everybody talking about this card being bad in Modern because it dies to Lightning Bolt or Doom Blade or whatever: That's why you pump it up and protect it. A lot of creatures die to Bolt and Blade, that's why they see play in competitive formats (and I would argue are detrimental because they warp what kinds of creatures get to see regular play at competitive levels). Bolt can easily be worked around using a simple anthem effect like Hall of Triumph or Metallic Mimic. As for the straight destroy and exile effects, you can give Champion hexproof and haste using good ol' Lightning Greaves. Don't forget that Prowling Serpopard counteracts permission.
What really irritates me about "bad in Modern" comments is how these cards are always judged as though they aren't being played with any kind of support, as though someone was just trying to fit them into an existing archtype instead of, I dunno, creating a new archtype around the card? Square pegs don't fit into round holes, folks. You need to find a square hole.
As for me, this is a new auto-include in pretty much any green aggro commander deck ever. Give 'em Haste, Hexproof, and Indestructible and watch your opponents pull their hair out at your nigh-implacable cheatstick.
Ok. Let me ask you the same thing I asked the other person. How many cards are you putting in your deck just to protect this creature for a full turn? How many cards are you putting in to give it haste?
How does it work when you have to assemble the Champion, protection for the champion, a fatty (that will have to survive an entire turn), and a way to give it haste. You need 4 cards in your scenario (at a minimum, opposed may have additional removal spells). All the while, you're still a turn 4 deck, so hopefully you're alive to even attack.
And again, no one is saying it's a bad Commander card or a bad casual card. It's a fun card. It's just not a competitive card unless you live in Magical Christmas Land.
GB Rock
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I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
Technically true, but misleading. Of the format defining Modern creatures, only Eldrazi cost more than 2 mana without a protection effect, ETB ability or massive cost-reducer/alternate casting mode. And they have inherent cost reduction from Eldrazi Temple. Zero creatures make that list that in practice cost over 2, die to bolt, and fail to get value through 1-for-1 removal.
"Dies to removal" is a real thing. There's a reson you don't see Phyrexian Obliterators winning many games.
Blatantly false. Not only is the argument relevant, but it's also disingenuous to think otherwise. The other creatures in Modern that die to removal either yield immediate advantage via EtB (Thought-Knot Seer, Snapcaster Mage), the removal costs the same or more resources to kill the threat (BG or W + a land in the case of Tarmogoyf / Scavenging Ooze), are outright impervious to most forms of common removal Primeval Titan, Tasigur, the Golden Fang) or at the very least, you come out neutral on tempo because the removal costs the same as the threat (Delver of Secrets, the suite of Affinity's creatures). To imply that the creature dying to ANY removal without providing an advantage AND setting your tempo way back is "irrelevant" is disingenuous and shows that either you don't play Modern or don't know about deck construction. And yes, it's expected of you to think that the opponent has always removal at hand at all times and play accordingly, especially when your gameplays revolves around a single tap-out, do-nothing creature surviving until your next turn in order to win.
Again, this shows you don't understand modern as a format. Cards that cheat stuff into play or cheat on mana are good if they're appropriately costed and can do it right away. This is neither of them. There's a reason why Elvish Piper hasn't appeared on any list in any top 8 ever, or why Breach / Goryo decks don't run it already. This is barely an upgrade over it and definitely not any game breaking tech, and I can't think a single reason about why you would want to play this, but not Piper. What you're saying is that you expect that eventually someone jams some copies of a 4 mana do nothing creature that half of the decks will kill with basically any removal available except for Abrupt Decay or outright ignore and win over it because you did nothing on your turn like Affinity or Burn.
Seriously, sometimes I think people would defend a 10 CMC do nothing sorcery that would let you put a permanent from your hand into play because "historically cheating things into play / cheating on mana has been broken". No, it has not. It's only broken when it's resilient, playable and appropriately costed.
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
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You should take that joke on the road. You've missed your calling in life.
I won't argue with close-minded "know-everythings".
We have to agree to disagree and move on, plain and simple. We will know an answer in a few months. We will see who is right and who is wrong. Feel free to check back by Fall. I won't argue with you so debase, detract and name-call away if it makes you feel good.
Agreed to a point. There just isn't enough support in mono-black to make the card more competitive at this time. Although I have seen some mono black devotion lists that look like they are getting close.
Again no one is saying this card is format defining, top level, top 50 used card in Modern. It will find its way in somewhere and there may be support or synergy coming in a set in the near future. Unbelievable that some people get their panties in such a twist when someone thinks differently than themselves. I'm fine with people who think its trash. To each their own. But understand there IS dissenting opinion. Deal with it and move on.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
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Modern or not, this is a fun card and I'll probably try to brew up a cool RG Stompy deck with it. It's also definitely going to find a home in my Commander decks...
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But everyone who's said this is bad in Modern has also said this card is fun and has a place in Magic. Saying a card is bad in a competitive formats is not a bad thing. It's just a factual statement.
To answer an earlier post, I did not say that 4 Mana cards needed to win the game to be playable in Modern. I said they needed to win the game OR provide card advantage. Thought-Knot Seer can do both. Reality Smasher can do both. When Splinter Twin was legal, it could do both. Karn, Wurmcoil, and Ugin do both. Scapeshift wins the game. Empty wins the game. Bloodbraid provided card advantage. Wrath provides card advantage.
Those are the cards this card has to compete with, and it doesn't do so on any level. It can provide card advantage, but relies on a 2nd card to do so AND needs to survive and entire turn. Compare this to Splinter Twin. While it did rely on a 2nd creature, it won the game immediately. You didn't have to wait and hope your creature didn't get bolted when the opponent tapped out.
Good card is bad in competitive. Nothing wrong with that.
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
It's a Johnny/Timmy card if I've ever seen one.
-Chandra Nalaar
I'm fully aware. But I'm also fully aware that the most common translations into English and French did not.
And yeah, I always found it funny that the story of Aladdin takes place in China in those same translations, but Disney's version looks vaguely Persian. LOL
On phasing:
Turn 4: do it again and laugh while you cry because you don't have any removal left (Ps the cards you are trying to talk about are called Lightning Bolt, Path to Exile, Fatal Push and Dismember)
Honestly, you can tell if a creature is good if the opponent absolutely MUST remove it as soon as it hits the board. This demands an immediate answer, and without one, the opponent is going to fall behind.
I would almost recommend picking up some Lifecrafter's Bestiaries while they are cheap, since the card is really good in a heavy green-based creature decks.
GB Rock
U Flooding Merfolk
RUG Delver Midrange
WU Monks
UW Tempo Geist
GW Bogle
GW Liege
UR Tron
B Vampires
Affinity
Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity
EDH
W Akroma
GBW Ghave
BRU Thrax
GR Ruric
I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
Abilities that trigger when attacking happen after attackers are declared. The creature you get to cheat in from this cannot attack.
GB Rock
U Flooding Merfolk
RUG Delver Midrange
WU Monks
UW Tempo Geist
GW Bogle
GW Liege
UR Tron
B Vampires
Affinity
Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity
EDH
W Akroma
GBW Ghave
BRU Thrax
GR Ruric
I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
Yeah, abilities that trigger when attacking happen after attackers are declared right before the declare blockers step so Craterhoof Behemoth will be in play and its ability will trigger before declare blockers.
GB Rock
U Flooding Merfolk
RUG Delver Midrange
WU Monks
UW Tempo Geist
GW Bogle
GW Liege
UR Tron
B Vampires
Affinity
Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity
EDH
W Akroma
GBW Ghave
BRU Thrax
GR Ruric
I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
Every Magical Christmasland scenario described for this card involves jumping through multiple hoops, having multiple precise cards in hand, and still typically doesn't do anything until turn 3 or 4. Look at the decks that are played in Modern:
Death's Shadow runs 8 targeted discard spells in its main deck and will typically both use one and have a 5 power creature in play by turn 2.
Abzan and Jund run 6+, plus 12+ removal spells for this guy to fiht through before doing anything.
Dredge and affinity often have 12 power on board turn 3, which other decks need to be able to interact with or race.
Storm variants go off turn 2-3 if they aren't facing interaction.
Eldrazi runs playsets of Paths, Thought-Knots and Displacers, all of whom blank this guy.
Scapeshift runs Primetime out at the same speed as this guy, but more reliably and without depending on other draws for Titan to win the game.
A deck built around Champion needs to either A) manage to be fast enough or interactive enough to grt on board against these decks, B) actually be able to stick and attack with Champion even through removal and discard, C) have a high enough density of high enough impact fatties for Champion to do something and D) actually draw/tutor and keep those fatties in hand through Thoughtseizes, Cliques and Thought-Knots long enough to actually cheat them in.
Like everyone says, fun kitchen table card. It might do something cool once in a while in a draft deck. But absolutely no place in Modern, and Standard is optimistic.
Please take it to a tournament and prove us wrong. I'll be holding my breath to see it break to 32 anywhere.
Trying to correct someone about format staples when they have a better grasp on the format than you do is hilarious
What really irritates me about "bad in Modern" comments is how these cards are always judged as though they aren't being played with any kind of support, as though someone was just trying to fit them into an existing archtype instead of, I dunno, creating a new archtype around the card? Square pegs don't fit into round holes, folks. You need to find a square hole.
As for me, this is a new auto-include in pretty much any green aggro commander deck ever. Give 'em Haste, Hexproof, and Indestructible and watch your opponents pull their hair out at your nigh-implacable cheatstick.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
They also give value upon entering or leaving the battlefield or cost the same mana as the answer and thus you remain Tempo neutral.
So you're using even more bad cards to support the initial bad card? What happens when you draw Hall of Triumph or Lightning Greaves but you don't draw Champion? What happens when it eats a Path, a Dismember, a Push or a Terminate anyways? What happens when you face hand disruption like Thoughtseize or Thought-Knot Seer?
Except it wouldn't be a new archetype created around the card. It would be cheating into play fatties long before they should be able to hit the battlefield, which is an already existing one in Breach/Goryo decks, where Champion doesn't fit. If you design a deck based on the same principle around Champion then you're a worse Breach/Goryo deck by default.
Stop trying to make it work, people. Elvish Piper won't start seeing play just because it's now a 3/3 that triggers on attacking.
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
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Ok. Let me ask you the same thing I asked the other person. How many cards are you putting in your deck just to protect this creature for a full turn? How many cards are you putting in to give it haste?
How does it work when you have to assemble the Champion, protection for the champion, a fatty (that will have to survive an entire turn), and a way to give it haste. You need 4 cards in your scenario (at a minimum, opposed may have additional removal spells). All the while, you're still a turn 4 deck, so hopefully you're alive to even attack.
And again, no one is saying it's a bad Commander card or a bad casual card. It's a fun card. It's just not a competitive card unless you live in Magical Christmas Land.
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!