Cool, this will be a nice change. I know most people are sick of the gatewatch at this point, we want to explore different characters and different aspects of each color. Wizards tries to make it so new players can easily identify who characters (the gatewatch) are, and ended up churning out a ton of them. Bringing new players into the game and acquainting them with the world is important, but so is keeping your enfranchised players. You know, the ones that go to FNMs, prereleases and even GPs frequently are the real audience you should be trying to retain, because we stay with the game year after year and that means money for wizards!
On a small side note: I also would like to see non-planeswalker characters make more of a splash. I know that's hard when "THE FATE OF THE MULTIVERSE IS AT STAKE" but sometimes smaller-scale stories are more interesting than the big picture of what is happening.
At any rate this is a good sign that wizards is listening to the playerbase, thanks WotC.
The trouble with them listening is that now we got to wait for them to do something in two years because they already planned out the next year of stuff. I think someone commented before that Wizards is like the US Mint or something as far as how they are well meaning, but just way too slow at reacting to anything going on in the player market. If they could find a way to cut down the time it takes to react to stuff like this that will be the real game changer. FoW company reacts way faster than Wizards does and the same can be said of the company behind Weiss Schwartz.
That's obviously a concern but it's part of their development cycle right? It's hard to include stuff in sets that have been finalized and printed. I'm not saying this solution is perfect or the greatest thing or whatever.
It's harder than just adding in a last minute Tormod's Crypt into standard. The entire current magic storyline is based on these guys and gals so it makes sense that changes will happen at a glacial pace. I'm just happy that it's happening.
From Hour of Devastation on, there'll be less Gatewatch Planeswalkers
Colt47 This means that starting with HoD they will be starting this new approach, that isn't a long time to wait at all.
FYI take what they are saying into the context of 2 year planning. We know they work on a two year cycle starting the design of the next set two years before it gets released. About a year ago people were already putting up comments that they made the Jacetus League, along with saying other things that weren't exactly positive about the direction they were taking, so they had time to change direction at that point.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Cool, this will be a nice change. I know most people are sick of the gatewatch at this point, we want to explore different characters and different aspects of each color. Wizards tries to make it so new players can easily identify who characters (the gatewatch) are, and ended up churning out a ton of them. Bringing new players into the game and acquainting them with the world is important, but so is keeping your enfranchised players. You know, the ones that go to FNMs, prereleases and even GPs frequently are the real audience you should be trying to retain, because we stay with the game year after year and that means money for wizards!
On a small side note: I also would like to see non-planeswalker characters make more of a splash. I know that's hard when "THE FATE OF THE MULTIVERSE IS AT STAKE" but sometimes smaller-scale stories are more interesting than the big picture of what is happening.
At any rate this is a good sign that wizards is listening to the playerbase, thanks WotC.
The trouble with them listening is that now we got to wait for them to do something in two years because they already planned out the next year of stuff. I think someone commented before that Wizards is like the US Mint or something as far as how they are well meaning, but just way too slow at reacting to anything going on in the player market. If they could find a way to cut down the time it takes to react to stuff like this that will be the real game changer. FoW company reacts way faster than Wizards does and the same can be said of the company behind Weiss Schwartz.
That's obviously a concern but it's part of their development cycle right? It's hard to include stuff in sets that have been finalized and printed. I'm not saying this solution is perfect or the greatest thing or whatever.
It's harder than just adding in a last minute Tormod's Crypt into standard. The entire current magic storyline is based on these guys and gals so it makes sense that changes will happen at a glacial pace. I'm just happy that it's happening.
The real issue is they are trying too hard to design all new cards and sticking with it. The best plan if they have to make a last minute change is to rely on already designed and proven cards from past sets and bring them in to adjust the upcoming set. So basically, be less reprint averse would be one solution. That or bring back core sets.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I get the feeling that hour of devastation was going to be a breaking point for the whole "gatewatch" thing anyway, regardless of what people had complained about. The name alone suggests that this will not be a win for the gatewatch in the first place. What type of loss is the real question. Do they lose a member or two? To death or just leaving? Maybe even betrayal, or one of them being Slave of Bolas'ed. Maybe them just dismembering into more factions due to disagreeing about strategy (which would be natural for a team boasting all five colors). Maybe they leave a giant cliffhanger where we don't know what happens to the gatewatch, and the next few sets build the story of what bolas or some other villain walkers have been up to while the gatewatch was in zendikar, innistrad, kaladesh, and amonkhet, and a couple years from now (maybe thats too long) finish the cliff hanger. I think this news gives them a ton of story telling options that aren't directly about the gatewatch, but also don't dismiss them entirely; but rather flesh out some villains for once
Maro just clarified that he meant fewer Gatewatch Planeswalkers cards, not fewer Gatewatch driven stories.
This is what I figured, but I feel that what I said earlier still applies - giving more exposure to non-Gatewatch characters on the cards could lead to increased demand for them - and therefore less Gatewatch - in the stories. That's my current hope.
Maro just clarified that he meant fewer Gatewatch Planeswalkers cards, not fewer Gatewatch driven stories.
Maro does like to take away the tiniest glimmer of hope at every opportunity, doesn't he.
I mean... he also said that people were complaining about them showing up as a group, so they should stop showing up en-masse. If you expected it meant that one of the Gatewatch wouldn't be in each block then I'm not sure that's Maro's fault.
Whoo-hoo! FINALLY, I just rolled my eyes when I saw that we're getting yet another turns-into-indestructible-creature Gideon and another zombie-making Liliana, I only play Magic Duels because of the lack of a real scene here and I'm fed up with so many iterations of the same guys, even though in Duels I'm restricted to only one copy of each...so in Standard it must feal like a real glut.
I definitely hope they introduce other planeswalkers to add variety to the game, the Gatewatch walkers are getting old by this point.
This is a good start, the next utopian step would be to actually delve into these characters when they return the limelight and create meaningful personalities. I think they do well at creating characters, but they don't know how to flesh them out within the story. I like all 5 of the Gatewatch, but WOTC has missed the mark in the stories.
Jace having such a meek demeanor and being permanently nervous is just pandering to the "nerd" paradigm. They just created him into a bloated stereotype. Also, I despise how he is completely useless in battle. It doesn't make sense. He has multiple cards with unsummon and other relevant in battle abilities, but in the story he can only create do-nothing illusions, and yet not a single PW card of his creates an Illusion token! A more mature Jace alone would make the story so much better. But all that being said I think he has a great foundation his loss memories, destroying the mind of his traitorous mentor, falling for a century old walker, being tricked by bolas to release the eldrazi... but now we have a nervous teenager.
Chandra's dialogue is so painful. We get it red is known for emotions, but having emotions doesn't mean you have to be an idiot. When I read the stories I literally skip any part where Chandra speaks or has inner dialogue. Once again the pieces were there for an interesting character the tragedy with her parents, Keral Keep, the allusions to Jaya, the romance with Gideon, I'm sorry "Gids"...
Nissa is so devoid of any meaningful character I dont even know where to begin. Her retcon is the only one that really bothers me, and that's mostly because of how awful their execution has been with creating a quality character. They could have had a more compelling story about the semi-xenophobic, race supremacist who relied on non-Elves to help her save home world. They could have showed her inner struggle to trust the outsiders, her apprehension to join the Gatewatch, and an inner dialogue where she struggles with an antiquated ethos.
Gideon imo has probably had the most going for him despite being the consummate meathead. I like that they show his struggle with the death of his Irregulars, but sometimes it just feels thrown into the story. I really like his struggle with the gods on Amonkhet, and it has been one of the more interesting character developments since the gatewatch was created.
Liliana is my favorite character and it pains me how they created such a great character, but in the stories she is lesser version of Cruella D'evil. A century old walker with her past should not feel like a twenty year old college student... I absolutely love her story. IMO its the most intersting. Liliana brokering her soul to four demons for power but then reneging is a great story (though i think it could be better). Then there is the enigmatic Raven Man story aspect, which i think has caught the imagination of most readers (I'm nervous about their execution to this story in the coming future though). She also has the painful past with the accidental zombifying of her brother... Then there is her struggle with the Chain Veil and the risk of her dying or becoming a demon like Ob Nixilis.. She even has a history with Nicol Bolas... ALL OF THIS and all they can do with her is make her shallow, eye candy for the predominantly male audience...
TLDR: The gatewatch planeswalkers each have a great foundation to be interesting characters, but WOTC has failed time and time again creating truly compelling characters.
I've never read any of the stories of the Gatewatch, I don't even know where they're printed. As someone who consumes the characters strictly through art, cards, and flavor text, I can say that Liliana consistently seems to be the most interesting of the Gatewatch simply because she is a purple-clad dominatrix who fetishizes death and keeps zombies on leashes. Sexuality and male fan-base aside, the juxtaposition of her characteristics just comes across as much more original than any of the other characters who seem to just fit existing, and exhausted, fantasy molds. That isn't to say that "sexy necromancer" itself isn't already a fantasy trope, but Wizards has managed to breathe some fresh life into it.
This seems a sensible approach to Planeswalker. I understand the idea to have regular protagonists, however when the Gatewatch have taken spotlight over local planeswalkers and other important characters, it gets annoying. Even if the entire team travels to the next story, they don't all need cards to represent their change in abilties based on their location.
I'd like to see both new planeswalkers on each plane, as well updated versions of old ones if they also visit that plane or when the Gatewatch returns to that plane. It would be a good mix in my opinion.
I need to restart my Planeswalker collection, had to sell my old one to pay bills
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As someone who likes the idea of the gatewatch, and a consistent cast of characters, I'm happy with this change. While I'm definitely fatigued of the "core 5", and understand the desire to have them be ever present for marketing and story reasons, it's just not healthy for the game.
What I'm hoping for is yes, less printings of the core 5 planeswalkers (I think their current involvement in the story and depiction of cards is just fine), but also that the next block takes place concurrently as Amonkhet block, and follows Ajani, as the sole Gatewatch representative. The creative team said that their story model was inspired by serialized TV shows - I can't remember the last time I saw a show that didn't have an A plot and a B plot. There's no reason WotC can't adopt that model here. Core set of walkers? Check. Room for new/returning walkers? Check. Continuous story with reoccurring characters? Check. They would be able to keep all the benefits of having a consistent cast, while also addressing Gatewatch fatigue. It really would be the best compromise.
As someone who likes the idea of the gatewatch, and a consistent cast of characters, I'm happy with this change. While I'm definitely fatigued of the "core 5", and understand the desire to have them be ever present for marketing and story reasons, it's just not healthy for the game.
What I'm hoping for is yes, less printings of the core 5 planeswalkers (I think their current involvement in the story and depiction of cards is just fine), but also that the next block takes place concurrently as Amonkhet block, and follows Ajani, as the sole Gatewatch representative. The creative team said that their story model was inspired by serialized TV shows - I can't remember the last time I saw a show that didn't have an A plot and a B plot. There's no reason WotC can't adopt that model here. Core set of walkers? Check. Room for new/returning walkers? Check. Continuous story with reoccurring characters? Check. They would be able to keep all the benefits of having a consistent cast, while also addressing Gatewatch fatigue. It really would be the best compromise.
The main issue there is that when this is done in tv and in books it flows well because the cuts can be short and jumping back and forth doesn't take very long. A 6 month gap between/during jumps breaks up the flow too much imo to keep the feel of contiguous timelines. This is why in most successful fantasy I've read even when it jumps to different plots the time tends to have little or no overlap.
As someone who likes the idea of the gatewatch, and a consistent cast of characters, I'm happy with this change. While I'm definitely fatigued of the "core 5", and understand the desire to have them be ever present for marketing and story reasons, it's just not healthy for the game.
What I'm hoping for is yes, less printings of the core 5 planeswalkers (I think their current involvement in the story and depiction of cards is just fine), but also that the next block takes place concurrently as Amonkhet block, and follows Ajani, as the sole Gatewatch representative. The creative team said that their story model was inspired by serialized TV shows - I can't remember the last time I saw a show that didn't have an A plot and a B plot. There's no reason WotC can't adopt that model here. Core set of walkers? Check. Room for new/returning walkers? Check. Continuous story with reoccurring characters? Check. They would be able to keep all the benefits of having a consistent cast, while also addressing Gatewatch fatigue. It really would be the best compromise.
The main issue there is that when this is done in tv and in books it flows well because the cuts can be short and jumping back and forth doesn't take very long. A 6 month gap between/during jumps breaks up the flow too much imo to keep the feel of contiguous timelines. This is why in most successful fantasy I've read even when it jumps to different plots the time tends to have little or no overlap.
Fair point, but we're currently at a 3 month gap between each piece of story, and TV series routinely go on break for 4-5 months, sometimes more, and when they do it, there's no updates on the story what-so-ever. I don't think a 6 month gap, where alternating, yet still relevant stories were being told, would be all that bad. I think they could make it work, though the way WotC tells stories through their products would certainly require some retooling to make it more seamless.
He came to Theros, but his place of birth is still a matter of speculation according to multiple sources. As far as Amonkhet spec, there is an image circulating that shows Ashiok and a Amonkheti minotaur wearing identical spaulders. Plus his friggin head is practically tiny, less curved Bolas horns. Or perhaps more akin to the Talon Gates themselves.
Bolas, Ramaz, Ashiok. The HoD 3. That would be savage.
*They. Ashiok is non-binary.
*She. Ashiok enjoys his undecidability of sex/gender and the distress it causes on people interacting with it.
Unless there's a LGBT+ sexuality that remains genderfluid for the sake of making people upset, Ashiok is Ashiok and all pronouns are apt.
All official sources refer to Ashiok as "they". "They" is the pronoun that they use. They are nonbinary. The only pronoun that is apt,canonically, is "they".
To be honest I feel Creative already decided on his/her/their? gender long ago but the public reaction pressured them to make it reflective of it, and they claimed "we made it that way", "it was intentional", etc... As they have always done.
Same like how Gideon became tanner and tanner and Chandra... hmmmm you tell me how she got her roots... I guess it's magic.
Better idea; take the discussion about Ashiok's gender/identity elsewhere, we don't need a whole SJW-SJWBashers war going on here.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
This is good. The game has become so centralized around planeswalkers (both in story and set construction) that seeing the same faces over and over has been getting a little draining.
Fresh meat on the table please.
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That's obviously a concern but it's part of their development cycle right? It's hard to include stuff in sets that have been finalized and printed. I'm not saying this solution is perfect or the greatest thing or whatever.
It's harder than just adding in a last minute Tormod's Crypt into standard. The entire current magic storyline is based on these guys and gals so it makes sense that changes will happen at a glacial pace. I'm just happy that it's happening.
BGGRock
Modern
BRGJund
BBGRock
FYI take what they are saying into the context of 2 year planning. We know they work on a two year cycle starting the design of the next set two years before it gets released. About a year ago people were already putting up comments that they made the Jacetus League, along with saying other things that weren't exactly positive about the direction they were taking, so they had time to change direction at that point.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
The real issue is they are trying too hard to design all new cards and sticking with it. The best plan if they have to make a last minute change is to rely on already designed and proven cards from past sets and bring them in to adjust the upcoming set. So basically, be less reprint averse would be one solution. That or bring back core sets.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Eh
Fine enough for me
I mean... he also said that people were complaining about them showing up as a group, so they should stop showing up en-masse. If you expected it meant that one of the Gatewatch wouldn't be in each block then I'm not sure that's Maro's fault.
I definitely hope they introduce other planeswalkers to add variety to the game, the Gatewatch walkers are getting old by this point.
Jace having such a meek demeanor and being permanently nervous is just pandering to the "nerd" paradigm. They just created him into a bloated stereotype. Also, I despise how he is completely useless in battle. It doesn't make sense. He has multiple cards with unsummon and other relevant in battle abilities, but in the story he can only create do-nothing illusions, and yet not a single PW card of his creates an Illusion token! A more mature Jace alone would make the story so much better. But all that being said I think he has a great foundation his loss memories, destroying the mind of his traitorous mentor, falling for a century old walker, being tricked by bolas to release the eldrazi... but now we have a nervous teenager.
Chandra's dialogue is so painful. We get it red is known for emotions, but having emotions doesn't mean you have to be an idiot. When I read the stories I literally skip any part where Chandra speaks or has inner dialogue. Once again the pieces were there for an interesting character the tragedy with her parents, Keral Keep, the allusions to Jaya, the romance with Gideon, I'm sorry "Gids"...
Nissa is so devoid of any meaningful character I dont even know where to begin. Her retcon is the only one that really bothers me, and that's mostly because of how awful their execution has been with creating a quality character. They could have had a more compelling story about the semi-xenophobic, race supremacist who relied on non-Elves to help her save home world. They could have showed her inner struggle to trust the outsiders, her apprehension to join the Gatewatch, and an inner dialogue where she struggles with an antiquated ethos.
Gideon imo has probably had the most going for him despite being the consummate meathead. I like that they show his struggle with the death of his Irregulars, but sometimes it just feels thrown into the story. I really like his struggle with the gods on Amonkhet, and it has been one of the more interesting character developments since the gatewatch was created.
Liliana is my favorite character and it pains me how they created such a great character, but in the stories she is lesser version of Cruella D'evil. A century old walker with her past should not feel like a twenty year old college student... I absolutely love her story. IMO its the most intersting. Liliana brokering her soul to four demons for power but then reneging is a great story (though i think it could be better). Then there is the enigmatic Raven Man story aspect, which i think has caught the imagination of most readers (I'm nervous about their execution to this story in the coming future though). She also has the painful past with the accidental zombifying of her brother... Then there is her struggle with the Chain Veil and the risk of her dying or becoming a demon like Ob Nixilis.. She even has a history with Nicol Bolas... ALL OF THIS and all they can do with her is make her shallow, eye candy for the predominantly male audience...
TLDR: The gatewatch planeswalkers each have a great foundation to be interesting characters, but WOTC has failed time and time again creating truly compelling characters.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
GWUBRDraft my Old Border Nostalgia Cube! and/or The Little Pauper Cube That Could!RBUWG
Modern:WDeath & TaxesW | RUGRUG DelverRUG
I'd like to see both new planeswalkers on each plane, as well updated versions of old ones if they also visit that plane or when the Gatewatch returns to that plane. It would be a good mix in my opinion.
I need to restart my Planeswalker collection, had to sell my old one to pay bills
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You win target thread. If you aren't Atrius, Atrius wins that thread instead.
"Wait, can you actually win a thread?" - Atrius.
What I'm hoping for is yes, less printings of the core 5 planeswalkers (I think their current involvement in the story and depiction of cards is just fine), but also that the next block takes place concurrently as Amonkhet block, and follows Ajani, as the sole Gatewatch representative. The creative team said that their story model was inspired by serialized TV shows - I can't remember the last time I saw a show that didn't have an A plot and a B plot. There's no reason WotC can't adopt that model here. Core set of walkers? Check. Room for new/returning walkers? Check. Continuous story with reoccurring characters? Check. They would be able to keep all the benefits of having a consistent cast, while also addressing Gatewatch fatigue. It really would be the best compromise.
The main issue there is that when this is done in tv and in books it flows well because the cuts can be short and jumping back and forth doesn't take very long. A 6 month gap between/during jumps breaks up the flow too much imo to keep the feel of contiguous timelines. This is why in most successful fantasy I've read even when it jumps to different plots the time tends to have little or no overlap.
Fair point, but we're currently at a 3 month gap between each piece of story, and TV series routinely go on break for 4-5 months, sometimes more, and when they do it, there's no updates on the story what-so-ever. I don't think a 6 month gap, where alternating, yet still relevant stories were being told, would be all that bad. I think they could make it work, though the way WotC tells stories through their products would certainly require some retooling to make it more seamless.
*She. Ashiok enjoys his undecidability of sex/gender and the distress it causes on people interacting with it.
Unless there's a LGBT+ sexuality that remains genderfluid for the sake of making people upset, Ashiok is Ashiok and all pronouns are apt.
Same like how Gideon became tanner and tanner and Chandra... hmmmm you tell me how she got her roots... I guess it's magic.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Fresh meat on the table please.