I think it also coincided with the probability they're running out of card ideas with the gatewatch. You can only put so many similar abilities before you realize they're not very different at all.
Omg you people are insufferable. This is what you want, yet you find something to complain about.
Not everyone has the same worldview as you. That's not sad or disheartening. Sometimes ideas don't work for the majority of people. If you aren't in the majority, you can't see it, and therefore need feedback.
You want marketing to be omniscient. They aren't, get over it.
I also like MaRo pointing out (again) that a) they listen to feedback but b) it takes a while to turn feedback into results.
I hope players of the game see this and realize that their feedback is important, as is their patience and trust that they are being heard.
The sad and disheartening thing is that they needed the feedback to begin with. I mean, someone in power actually thought using the same five planeswalkers over and over was a good idea? It wreaks of uncreative, non-playing business people sticking their noses where they don't belong.
He came to Theros, but his place of birth is still a matter of speculation according to multiple sources. As far as Amonkhet spec, there is an image circulating that shows Ashiok and a Amonkheti minotaur wearing identical spaulders. Plus his friggin head is practically tiny, less curved Bolas horns. Or perhaps more akin to the Talon Gates themselves.
Bolas, Ramaz, Ashiok. The HoD 3. That would be savage.
The sad and disheartening thing is that they needed the feedback to begin with. I mean, someone in power actually thought using the same five planeswalkers over and over was a good idea? It wreaks of uncreative, non-playing business people sticking their noses where they don't belong.
From a marketing perspective having the same five planeswalkers over and over *is* a good idea--it creates product identification (if you see a picture of Chandra on a poster you pretty much know who it is even if the poster has no text or context) in the same way it does when Kellogg's uses Tony the Tiger. All companies need feedback from their customers, though, otherwise they won't know when a product is failing, succeeding, or if there are problems with it that need to be addressed. As far as being "uncreative" or "non-playing"...well, if they were not creative they wouldn't be able to continue releasing products but I do have to admit I don't know how often, of even if, anyone at the corporate headquarters actually plays Magic (consider the HR people who work there, or those over in Accounts Payable).
"Sticking their noses where they don't belong", though....Magic is *their* product--they may do with it whatever they please, up to and including discontinuing the entire product line effective immediately. If they want to kill off all planeswalkers except the Gatewatch Five they could do that, too.
As with many things, the wheels of progress turn slowly but at least they are listening and trying to keep their customer base as happy as possible.
I also like MaRo pointing out (again) that a) they listen to feedback but b) it takes a while to turn feedback into results.
I hope players of the game see this and realize that their feedback is important, as is their patience and trust that they are being heard.
The sad and disheartening thing is that they needed the feedback to begin with. I mean, someone in power actually thought using the same five planeswalkers over and over was a good idea? It wreaks of uncreative, non-playing business people sticking their noses where they don't belong.
Listening to feedback and parsing what is good and not is a very big deal. And they've done poorly.
They've listened TOO much which is what got us to where we are.
People whined about control and answers, they nerfed us into battlecruiser magic (careful what you wish for people current standard is the result).
People liked Gatewatch... so they go all in and now people are sick of the same planeswalkers because they've overdone it (let's not forget the marketing side trying to sell non game products giving a push).
It's good that they're still listening (because we're broken hard) but they need to go back to the basics with design and balance. We need control to not suck. We need aggro to be viable. Midrange and tricky cheat wins as the only viable decks in standard makes fewer people play... less money... less fun...
Stop pushing and just make good balanced sets with all the strats intact. The fun and cash will flow.
I understand why they created the Gatewatch from a marketing perspective, BUT, from a player perspective, it feels so forced and pushed.. It's true that the planeswalkers apart from the core five are always way more interesting, even when mechanics of the planeswalker card itself suck! I think this is a good thing, and I'm hoping (wishing) that eventually the Gatewatch idea as a whole is left behind, or that we could stop following them around and see the actual planes we're visiting
I'd be fine if the Gatewatch wasn't the absolute focus of the storyline and the game; the group as a whole keeps getting involved in business they have no right to, such as Nicol Bolas anything
Hopefully they learn their lesson, is all I'm saying
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EDH: Bruna, Light of Alabaster | Karlov of the Ghost Council | Breya, Etherium Shaper | Marchesa, the Black Rose | Queen Marchesa | The Mimeoplasm | Avacyn, Angel of Hope |
Pauper:
Orzhov Nightsky Mimic
Frequent lurker and vorthos player
Seeing just the title made me thought that the number of Gatewatch members will be reduced...
I had a similar feeling. Perhaps not killed off, but corrupted at the very least. Gideon maybe, although the Amon preview video shows his shield activating when Hazoret tries to pierce his heart. Could see Lili getting her comecomeuppance as well.
Seeing just the title made me thought that the number of Gatewatch members will be reduced...
I had a similar feeling. Perhaps not killed off, but corrupted at the very least. Gideon maybe, although the Amon preview video shows his shield activating when Hazoret tries to pierce his heart. Could see Lili getting her comecomeuppance as well.
I can see Lili staying here for all the sweet necromancy taking place. I mean, this is even better for her than Innistrad where she lived for a while.
Card design should push story, not the other way around.
If the guys doing the story aren't creative enough to spin what design throws them then replace them.
Keep the game solid first! Story, products, etc all will flow from that.
He came to Theros, but his place of birth is still a matter of speculation according to multiple sources. As far as Amonkhet spec, there is an image circulating that shows Ashiok and a Amonkheti minotaur wearing identical spaulders. Plus his friggin head is practically tiny, less curved Bolas horns. Or perhaps more akin to the Talon Gates themselves.
Bolas, Ramaz, Ashiok. The HoD 3. That would be savage.
*They. Ashiok is non-binary.
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"Pop in, find a dragon, roast a dragon."
-Chandra Nalaar
Words cannot express how happy I am about this. Hopefully this means the Magic Story articles will also become less Gatewatch-centric. The better stories in the previous couple of blocks focused on characters like Tamiyo and Ajani (although the latter is now part of the Gatewatch).
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I think it's worth to keep in mind that the story is still likely to follow the Gatewatch as the main tread to follow. Just that we get less cards of them allowing for other PW's to shine on the cards as well.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
As one of the few who seemingly doesn't mind the Gatewatch, I still have to say that this is probably for the better. The core 5 are just too fixed on certain strategies and don't allow for much diversity. That's why my favorite planeswalker card for example from the SOI block was Tamiyo to be honest.
On the other hand I have to strongly disagree with people who want more isolated storylines back. We had those for a decade, which meant that character growth was very limited or at least sporadic. The Gatewatch storyline has already improved by quite a margin since BFZ and I at least want to see where it is going for a little while longer.
I won't mind seeing other PWs, but to be fair the Gatewatch are expected to expand over time so stories involving Gatewatch should become more diversified anyway.
Keeping my fingers crossed for Ajani's reinforcements in HOD.
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MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Me too. I love the Gatewatch in the story, but I want to meet more characters, too. Not just PWs, but denizens of the worlds. In Kaladesh did a decent job with characters like Yehenni, but we need more of that. And with fewer scenes of the same 5 characters, but with different backdrops. I was hoping with Ajani joining, maybe a couple of them would take a break, so we could focus more on the world, and like 2-3 characters' adventures in that world.
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Level 2 Judge
Currently playing:
Standard: Superfriends!
Legacy: Nic Fit / Pod
Pauper: Delvar; Tron; Flicker Stuff
Commander: Riku ("Some weird doubple spell thing happened"); Keranos ("I did a Gatherer search for 'random' and 'flip a coin.'"); Superfriends!
He came to Theros, but his place of birth is still a matter of speculation according to multiple sources. As far as Amonkhet spec, there is an image circulating that shows Ashiok and a Amonkheti minotaur wearing identical spaulders. Plus his friggin head is practically tiny, less curved Bolas horns. Or perhaps more akin to the Talon Gates themselves.
Bolas, Ramaz, Ashiok. The HoD 3. That would be savage.
And... there were a few thread that showed the clothing on Aetherborn is the same as Ashiok.
Truth be....We DON'T know where Ashiok came from. Until Wotc tells us or there is more concrete evidence everything else is pure Speculation
I missed the word "Gatewatch" at first and started to panic.
I wouldn't mind that either, actually.
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Watch your thoughts, for they become words.
Watch your words, for they become actions.
Watch your actions, for they become habits.
Watch your habits, for they become character.
Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny.
I'm a fan. I wish we'd see Koth, my favorite, show back up but that probably won't happen until we head on back to New Phyrexia or have some other Phyrexia-flavored set.
I think it's worth to keep in mind that the story is still likely to follow the Gatewatch as the main tread to follow. Just that we get less cards of them allowing for other PW's to shine on the cards as well.
How dare you crush my hopes and dreams like that! Just kidding. At the very least I'll definitely be happy to see less Gatewatch saturation on the card side of things. We don't need four Gideons running around at once (then again, with Gideon of the Trials's emblem, maybe we do).
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Having said that, they will not be missed.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
Not everyone has the same worldview as you. That's not sad or disheartening. Sometimes ideas don't work for the majority of people. If you aren't in the majority, you can't see it, and therefore need feedback.
You want marketing to be omniscient. They aren't, get over it.
He came to Theros, but his place of birth is still a matter of speculation according to multiple sources. As far as Amonkhet spec, there is an image circulating that shows Ashiok and a Amonkheti minotaur wearing identical spaulders. Plus his friggin head is practically tiny, less curved Bolas horns. Or perhaps more akin to the Talon Gates themselves.
Bolas, Ramaz, Ashiok. The HoD 3. That would be savage.
How you should approach every game of Magic.
Mod Helpdesk (defunct)
My Flawless Score MCC Card | My Other One | # Three!
From a marketing perspective having the same five planeswalkers over and over *is* a good idea--it creates product identification (if you see a picture of Chandra on a poster you pretty much know who it is even if the poster has no text or context) in the same way it does when Kellogg's uses Tony the Tiger. All companies need feedback from their customers, though, otherwise they won't know when a product is failing, succeeding, or if there are problems with it that need to be addressed. As far as being "uncreative" or "non-playing"...well, if they were not creative they wouldn't be able to continue releasing products but I do have to admit I don't know how often, of even if, anyone at the corporate headquarters actually plays Magic (consider the HR people who work there, or those over in Accounts Payable).
"Sticking their noses where they don't belong", though....Magic is *their* product--they may do with it whatever they please, up to and including discontinuing the entire product line effective immediately. If they want to kill off all planeswalkers except the Gatewatch Five they could do that, too.
As with many things, the wheels of progress turn slowly but at least they are listening and trying to keep their customer base as happy as possible.
Listening to feedback and parsing what is good and not is a very big deal. And they've done poorly.
They've listened TOO much which is what got us to where we are.
People whined about control and answers, they nerfed us into battlecruiser magic (careful what you wish for people current standard is the result).
People liked Gatewatch... so they go all in and now people are sick of the same planeswalkers because they've overdone it (let's not forget the marketing side trying to sell non game products giving a push).
It's good that they're still listening (because we're broken hard) but they need to go back to the basics with design and balance. We need control to not suck. We need aggro to be viable. Midrange and tricky cheat wins as the only viable decks in standard makes fewer people play... less money... less fun...
Stop pushing and just make good balanced sets with all the strats intact. The fun and cash will flow.
I'd be fine if the Gatewatch wasn't the absolute focus of the storyline and the game; the group as a whole keeps getting involved in business they have no right to, such as Nicol Bolas anything
Hopefully they learn their lesson, is all I'm saying
Bruna, Light of Alabaster | Karlov of the Ghost Council | Breya, Etherium Shaper | Marchesa, the Black Rose | Queen Marchesa | The Mimeoplasm | Avacyn, Angel of Hope |
Pauper:
Orzhov Nightsky Mimic
Frequent lurker and vorthos player
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
I had a similar feeling. Perhaps not killed off, but corrupted at the very least. Gideon maybe, although the Amon preview video shows his shield activating when Hazoret tries to pierce his heart. Could see Lili getting her comecomeuppance as well.
How you should approach every game of Magic.
Mod Helpdesk (defunct)
My Flawless Score MCC Card | My Other One | # Three!
I can see Lili staying here for all the sweet necromancy taking place. I mean, this is even better for her than Innistrad where she lived for a while.
If the guys doing the story aren't creative enough to spin what design throws them then replace them.
Keep the game solid first! Story, products, etc all will flow from that.
-Chandra Nalaar
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
On the other hand I have to strongly disagree with people who want more isolated storylines back. We had those for a decade, which meant that character growth was very limited or at least sporadic. The Gatewatch storyline has already improved by quite a margin since BFZ and I at least want to see where it is going for a little while longer.
Keeping my fingers crossed for Ajani's reinforcements in HOD.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
Currently playing:
Standard: Superfriends!
Legacy: Nic Fit / Pod
Pauper: Delvar; Tron; Flicker Stuff
Commander: Riku ("Some weird doubple spell thing happened"); Keranos ("I did a Gatherer search for 'random' and 'flip a coin.'"); Superfriends!
And... there were a few thread that showed the clothing on Aetherborn is the same as Ashiok.
Truth be....We DON'T know where Ashiok came from. Until Wotc tells us or there is more concrete evidence everything else is pure Speculation
I wouldn't mind that either, actually.
Watch your words, for they become actions.
Watch your actions, for they become habits.
Watch your habits, for they become character.
Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny.
How dare you crush my hopes and dreams like that! Just kidding. At the very least I'll definitely be happy to see less Gatewatch saturation on the card side of things. We don't need four Gideons running around at once (then again, with Gideon of the Trials's emblem, maybe we do).