I feel like people down on him are as wrong as folks who were down on AoZ: "4 mana emblem isn't good enough".
I'm not sure why you feel that. It's not true. Maybe you remmeber a particular person? Some people are down on every card. I was a little down on Liliana, the Last Hope for standard because I felt it only had a a place in delirium and that's about where it's at right now, but usually I champion 3 mana walkers because they have a pretty low bar for playability. Gideon isn't terrible, but I think he's on the weak side for 3 mana walkers. In a vacuum I would rank him above Saheeli Rai and Ajani, Caller of the Pride, but saheeli -2 is busted in the right context so really just better than Ajani and I never liked that card.
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Are you ******* KIDDING ME?! That Gideon is busted for Miracles players. Thanks for blanking my entire Legacy Burn deck. Dick wads.
Sideboard Chaos Warp maybe? It's kinda tough for red, agreed.
Exquisite Firecraft is an answer the deck already runs, but it's that he's a clock, answers three drops with Counterbalance, AND stops Eidolon triggers on top of creating an emblem the same turn he comes down. Turn three stabilization is a real threat here now.
The more this game lives on, the more I get irritated with WotC. I just might leave this game forever now. My favorite deck in the only format I play is hard pressed thanks to this, and it's not even powerful enough to have a ban on Legacy. GG
I'm rather surprised the trials are just this middling cycle of uncommons. I thought they'd be a bigger deal, and they totally fail at the flavor of overcoming a trial to prove yourself. Instead, the big trial here is... bringing a cartouche? And they deliberately added a new cartouche subtype just for this? The whole gods and trials thing feels really underwhelming so far.
I do like that Gideon though, I always enjoy unique und new ultimates.
Are you ******* KIDDING ME?! That Gideon is busted for Miracles players. Thanks for blanking my entire Legacy Burn deck. Dick wads.
I mean, you could just point a bolt at him. Last I saw, 3 mana "gain three life" wasn't broken against burn.
Can't get that through with the Counterbalance lock in place.
In fairness, what outs does Burn have against Counterbalance? Not many. I don't think Gideon really changes this. Yes the Embalm does shut you down but if you were locked... what would the point be?
He's decent, but I don't get everyone freaking out. That emblem is very conditional on you still having a Gideon in play. If the emblem simply granted Platinum Angel's ability, it would be beyond broken, but as is, it's just a speed bump. Get them down to 0 life and then burn, steal, bounce, exile, or kill Gideon. GG. Sure, they can make him an indestructible creature, but that just opens him up to -1/-1 counters and creature exile/theft.
Planeswalker power creep, here we go. When do we get our 2 mana Nicol Bolas card?
I think there'd still be room to push for a 0 mana Karn after that one because money.
Recur him with Eternal Witness, Sun Titan, etc.
Play his brothers,
Protect him with protection(?!) effects,
Opponent flips table,
Happy now?
Don't forget to pray to people at Wizards and the corp.
pffft
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All I picture now is.... players ask Wizards "Are you guys crazy?" Wizards employee pulls out a cig, kicks over a drum of gasoline, and releases natural gas freely in a small enclosed room and says "Got a light?"...
Joking aside.... Grasp and -1-1 counters with hopefully some burn should keep Jura in check. Bolas will certainly remove a permanent on his card... I can say I'm not too concerned. I think his new card is stronger than Champion of Justice and below Jura. I'll look to pick up copies just after the Pro Tour when his use has diminished but before AOZ rotates.
New Gideon doesnt scary. 1 000 000 my copycats attack your Gideon and 1 000 000 attck you meh
And this is happening on a turn after your opponent cast Gideon
I'm assuming that's before your 1,000,000 copycat-toting deck is likely banhammered into the dust? Because Gideon here will be a problem for you afterward.
No it doesn't it says "You can't lose the game, and your opponents can't win the game". So, you play magic and find your win cons while your opponents stare at Gideon and wonder how to get through the knight tokens and the possible Heroic Intervention to save Gideon's.
Just a small point here. Heroic Intervention will not save Gideon from combat damage if you attack him. It will protect him from kill spells to his PW form, though, of course.
Heroic Intervention also won't save Gideon from damage spells targeting the player and having the damage applied to Gideon's loyalty.
Gideon is disgusting. Squeeze 8 Gideons into vehicles (4 ally 4 Trials)
T2 Heart of Kiran
T3 New broken Gideon - emblem or +1
T4 If it survives begin 8 damage per turn swings - if dead play Ally or trials again.
T5 and again
T6 and again
T7 still can't lose the game... and again
Hey balance team at WotC... bite me I'm not buying any of your set until you screw your heads back on straight.
Can't lose the game... <grumble>
They didn't want to 'upset' people with bannings on March 13... what if they ban ally of Z?
My thoughts exactly. And in modern there are so many other things that can protect him. Emblems should not be thrown around like they are nothing, in my opinion. Don't even get me started on planeswalker cards...
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The thing to remember is that his ultimate is a free bonus. Most PW never ultimate. His is mostly free, so it's an upside to the rest of the card. The rest of the card is an indestructible 4/4 for 3 with the equivalent of an unkillable blocker. (Actually better than that.) For 3 mana, that's already an amazing deal. The thing about not losing the game? Pure profit.
Any ultimate that is usable right away is better than almost every other ultimate.
This is a very good card that will have a home in standard, but this card is not "buh-roken", some of you are overreacting.
The emblem is not that big of a deal, because planeswalkers are easier to interact with than creatures. Sure it can be hard to kill on your opponent's turn, but thats fine. On your turn he's no longer indestructible, and you can burn him out. Or just attack him, he can +1 one of your creatures into uselessness, but not your whole team. His emblem is not much different from lifegain, and every new Gideon is more incidental lifegain. If you can't kill gideon within a few turns, or almost any planeswalker for that matter, you were in trouble anyway.
Are you ******* KIDDING ME?! That Gideon is busted for Miracles players. Thanks for blanking my entire Legacy Burn deck. Dick wads.
Set is not completely spoiled. I do agree this guy is going to be big, but I have doubts that wizards will allow this in standard without cheap removals. So my fingers is crossed that we burn players get something awesome. [PS... burn is slightly overdue for a new card, I think the last card we added to burn was: Exquisite Firecraft from Magic Origins.]
So far I'm a little more upset with the mana cost rule change in split cards. The mana cost should not be the whole card but the spell on the card. But new rule change intended to fix some issue, maybe it's for the better.
The emblem is not that big of a deal, because planeswalkers are easier to interact with than creatures.
How can you claim this statement?
There are much less amount of the removal spell options to kill a planweswalker than a creature.
You can't literally attack a creature.
Gideon's annoying? Fine, I'll attack him with everybody, good bye gideon. Random creature is annoying and stubbornly refuses to engage in combat? Well, you better draw that removal spell or he's sticking around.
The emblem is not that big of a deal, because planeswalkers are easier to interact with than creatures.
How can you claim this statement?
There are much less amount of the removal spell options to kill a planweswalker than a creature.
You can't literally attack a creature.
Gideon's annoying? Fine, I'll attack him with everybody, good bye gideon. Random creature is annoying and stubbornly refuses to engage in combat? Well, you better draw that removal spell or he's sticking around.
You can attack a planweswalker, but your opponent can also chunk block your attackers.
I still cannot buy your statement.
In addition, this Gideon has +1 ability to freeze one of your biggest attacker.
Overpushed cards are bad for everyone. Ally of Zendikar was the worst card design in recent history, and this follows a similar trend. Until they start applying their own design principals to designing face-walkers, things are going to be troublesome.
This is not bones broken, but it is overpowered, and shouldn't have made it outside of design.
It's not an ultimate. This Gideon doesn't have an ultimate.
The emblem seems like by far the worst mode, but it may be occasionally relevant.
Depends on the deck. Aggro/midrange decks? You bet it's the worst mode.
Control decks? Especially tapout control (my personal favorite)? The emblem is going to annoy the s**t out of your typical aggro/midrange player. They should just be thanking their lucky bolts that there aren't any more turn 1 mana dorks in Standard, because a turn 2 Gideon would be a nightmare for them.
He's still really good in that archetype, though: Turn 3: Lock down the only threat the opponent likely has on the board, giving you time to build up answers/defenses to any other threats that the opponent can get out. And when you have some room to breath, pop out an emblem, and keep ticking Gideon up to the f***ing stars. If all they have is creatures and direct damage to deal with planeswalkers, good luck getting rid of Gideon.
The emblem is not that big of a deal, because planeswalkers are easier to interact with than creatures.
How can you claim this statement?
There are much less amount of the removal spell options to kill a planweswalker than a creature.
You can't literally attack a creature.
Gideon's annoying? Fine, I'll attack him with everybody, good bye gideon. Random creature is annoying and stubbornly refuses to engage in combat? Well, you better draw that removal spell or he's sticking around.
You can attack a planweswalker, but your opponent can also chunk block your attackers.
I still cannot buy your statement.
In addition, this Gideon has +1 ability to freeze one of your biggest attacker.
Thats not unique to gideon. Your opponent can throw blockers in front of any planeswalker they control. Many planeswalkers also have the ability to defend themselves in some way by creating a token or icing an attacker. If you can't deal with ANY planeswalker, you are usually in trouble, its not often when you can go "whatever, I don't care about that", ignore a PW, and keep attacking the opponent. It can happen, the emblem isn't nothing, its part of why the card is good, but this gideon is not broken.
I think you were too focused on removal spells when you were wondering how I could say PW are easier to interact with. Against a PW, every creature on your side is a repeatable permanent source of removal.
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I'm not sure why you feel that. It's not true. Maybe you remmeber a particular person? Some people are down on every card. I was a little down on Liliana, the Last Hope for standard because I felt it only had a a place in delirium and that's about where it's at right now, but usually I champion 3 mana walkers because they have a pretty low bar for playability. Gideon isn't terrible, but I think he's on the weak side for 3 mana walkers. In a vacuum I would rank him above Saheeli Rai and Ajani, Caller of the Pride, but saheeli -2 is busted in the right context so really just better than Ajani and I never liked that card.
Exquisite Firecraft is an answer the deck already runs, but it's that he's a clock, answers three drops with Counterbalance, AND stops Eidolon triggers on top of creating an emblem the same turn he comes down. Turn three stabilization is a real threat here now.
The more this game lives on, the more I get irritated with WotC. I just might leave this game forever now. My favorite deck in the only format I play is hard pressed thanks to this, and it's not even powerful enough to have a ban on Legacy. GG
Can't get that through with the Counterbalance lock in place.
I do like that Gideon though, I always enjoy unique und new ultimates.
In fairness, what outs does Burn have against Counterbalance? Not many. I don't think Gideon really changes this. Yes the Embalm does shut you down but if you were locked... what would the point be?
I guess let the cards literally fall where they may, and see if anyone is still playing this game a few years down the road?
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Fireblast? Excuisite firecraft?
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I think there'd still be room to push for a 0 mana Karn after that one because money.
Recur him with Eternal Witness, Sun Titan, etc.
Play his brothers,
Protect him with protection(?!) effects,
Opponent flips table,
Happy now?
Don't forget to pray to people at Wizards and the corp.
pffft
Cult of the Succubi Eating Kitten and Brotherhood of Hamsters - Zombie One/Hulking One - Brotherhood of Hamsters disapproves of Damage on the Stack amputation, the corruption of Mythics,
and the "Major changes to Extended" in July 2010. You aborted our cards., but we approve of the Modern format. Even if it doesn't ha ve Carrion Feeder or Caller of the Claw in it.Dex: http://deckbox.org/users/Egementium_instructoid
Got the image from a group in FB.
Joking aside.... Grasp and -1-1 counters with hopefully some burn should keep Jura in check. Bolas will certainly remove a permanent on his card... I can say I'm not too concerned. I think his new card is stronger than Champion of Justice and below Jura. I'll look to pick up copies just after the Pro Tour when his use has diminished but before AOZ rotates.
I give him a B
Haters gona hate
Heroic Intervention also won't save Gideon from damage spells targeting the player and having the damage applied to Gideon's loyalty.
My thoughts exactly. And in modern there are so many other things that can protect him. Emblems should not be thrown around like they are nothing, in my opinion. Don't even get me started on planeswalker cards...
Cult of the Succubi Eating Kitten and Brotherhood of Hamsters - Zombie One/Hulking One - Brotherhood of Hamsters disapproves of Damage on the Stack amputation, the corruption of Mythics,
and the "Major changes to Extended" in July 2010. You aborted our cards., but we approve of the Modern format. Even if it doesn't ha ve Carrion Feeder or Caller of the Claw in it.Dex: http://deckbox.org/users/Egementium_instructoid
Any ultimate that is usable right away is better than almost every other ultimate.
The emblem is not that big of a deal, because planeswalkers are easier to interact with than creatures. Sure it can be hard to kill on your opponent's turn, but thats fine. On your turn he's no longer indestructible, and you can burn him out. Or just attack him, he can +1 one of your creatures into uselessness, but not your whole team. His emblem is not much different from lifegain, and every new Gideon is more incidental lifegain. If you can't kill gideon within a few turns, or almost any planeswalker for that matter, you were in trouble anyway.
The emblem seems like by far the worst mode, but it may be occasionally relevant.
UR Blue-Red Control
Modern:
UBR Grixis Control
UWR Jeskai Control
Set is not completely spoiled. I do agree this guy is going to be big, but I have doubts that wizards will allow this in standard without cheap removals. So my fingers is crossed that we burn players get something awesome. [PS... burn is slightly overdue for a new card, I think the last card we added to burn was: Exquisite Firecraft from Magic Origins.]
So far I'm a little more upset with the mana cost rule change in split cards. The mana cost should not be the whole card but the spell on the card. But new rule change intended to fix some issue, maybe it's for the better.
In his Second 100 days - Yawgmoth's Bargain is unrestricted in Vintage.
What is going to happen in the Next 100 days!!!
How can you claim this statement?
There are much less amount of the removal spell options to kill a planweswalker than a creature.
Anything, but nothing at the moment...
Modern:
WUBRGAmulet Titan, WUBRGHuman
WUBRAd Nauseam, WBRGDeath Shadow, UBRGScapeshift, UBRGDredge
WURJeskai Nahiri, WURCheeri0s, WBGCounter Company, WRGBurn, UBRMadcap Moon, BRGJund Midrange
UBTurn,BRGriselbrand Reanimator, WGKnight Company, RGRG Tron, RGRG Ponza, XAffinity, XEldrazi Tron
You can't literally attack a creature.
Gideon's annoying? Fine, I'll attack him with everybody, good bye gideon. Random creature is annoying and stubbornly refuses to engage in combat? Well, you better draw that removal spell or he's sticking around.
You can attack a planweswalker, but your opponent can also chunk block your attackers.
I still cannot buy your statement.
In addition, this Gideon has +1 ability to freeze one of your biggest attacker.
Anything, but nothing at the moment...
Modern:
WUBRGAmulet Titan, WUBRGHuman
WUBRAd Nauseam, WBRGDeath Shadow, UBRGScapeshift, UBRGDredge
WURJeskai Nahiri, WURCheeri0s, WBGCounter Company, WRGBurn, UBRMadcap Moon, BRGJund Midrange
UBTurn,BRGriselbrand Reanimator, WGKnight Company, RGRG Tron, RGRG Ponza, XAffinity, XEldrazi Tron
This is not bones broken, but it is overpowered, and shouldn't have made it outside of design.
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Depends on the deck. Aggro/midrange decks? You bet it's the worst mode.
Control decks? Especially tapout control (my personal favorite)? The emblem is going to annoy the s**t out of your typical aggro/midrange player. They should just be thanking their lucky bolts that there aren't any more turn 1 mana dorks in Standard, because a turn 2 Gideon would be a nightmare for them.
He's still really good in that archetype, though: Turn 3: Lock down the only threat the opponent likely has on the board, giving you time to build up answers/defenses to any other threats that the opponent can get out. And when you have some room to breath, pop out an emblem, and keep ticking Gideon up to the f***ing stars. If all they have is creatures and direct damage to deal with planeswalkers, good luck getting rid of Gideon.
Thats not unique to gideon. Your opponent can throw blockers in front of any planeswalker they control. Many planeswalkers also have the ability to defend themselves in some way by creating a token or icing an attacker. If you can't deal with ANY planeswalker, you are usually in trouble, its not often when you can go "whatever, I don't care about that", ignore a PW, and keep attacking the opponent. It can happen, the emblem isn't nothing, its part of why the card is good, but this gideon is not broken.
I think you were too focused on removal spells when you were wondering how I could say PW are easier to interact with. Against a PW, every creature on your side is a repeatable permanent source of removal.