Regarding Copy Cat, that deck absolutely will be hammered with a ban before the Amonkhet pro tour, no doubt about it. They came close to banning it last announcement, and they pretty much admitted later that they probably made a mistake when they decided to let it go because they were too optimistic that other decks would rise up. That hasn't happened and standard is super stale now.
I wish these Gods would have had another static ability alongside their "animation" static ability, similar to the Gods of Theros. At least that'd give them some more utility.
Consider this. Late game, you are stalled out and so is the opponent. You reach an attrition war. Your hand had 2 lands, 2 removal spells and a draw spell. You drop this guy. On opponent's turn you have a potential
5/5 blocker, card draw engine that can double as a potential finisher. This value in this card is the versatility. I think it'll be good. it triggers revolt.
paradoxical outcome on turn four can put opponents into a pretty nice clock in the right deck with this... if we get some good 1-2 drops to give value.
When Kamigawa Myojin spirit cycle is actually better than "EGYPTIANS GODS" you're doing something wrong....
Real Egyptians Gods:
The sad thing is that the yu-gi-oh Egyptian God cards are bad these days. Atleats they feel epic and godly.
That's power creep for you. But these Gods just don't feel impressive. I think it's also how cheap they are cost-wise. They just need more flash. Original Avacyn and Iona, the Myojin, cards like that feel Godly.
So many people saying 'late game'... what late game are we talking about with Vehicles and Copycat running the show?
This set was in the can when they realized 'oops we made all magic battlecruiser and nerfed counters and answers too much'. How on earth can we expect (unless there's a win con they DIDN'T intend that crops up) control to have a chance to get to late game.
7 cards in hand... when you play this card you've done nothing unless you have 7. Try to wedge this thing into Temur Tower... what do you kick out? UB is hopeless and will continue to be since you cannot get ahead with counters and removal. I'd still rather run Sphinx of the final word.
If so many people have to say 'if, if, maybe, etc' there is no way this will have a chance in hell. Even if they kick copycat (yes they should have done it already... cretins!) vehicles is still too efficient.
I really do wish we were in a place in standard where brewing with this guy could yield something but the requirement means you are only filling your hand and losing tempo with overcosted answers for a few short turns while they bring back creatures with non casting effects... which you have to take care of again.
How sad is it that up to now, the card that got me most excited was the reprinting of essence scatter in standard? I mean let's get real for a second: 7 cards are just overkill. How bizzare has a game of magic have to be that you got this dude on the field with 7 or more cards in hand? And even then, there are plenty of fliers in this meta ready to block the guy. It's a turn 3 do nothing, followed up with a turn 4 draw ONE card. You can't even talk lategame potential here, since standard doesn't work that way. And this card doesn't exactly break into other formats, don't tell me it will.
Standard has to change fundamentaly for this dude to see even relevant sideboard play. I apologize to hazoret, kefnet is just outright terrible and a disgrace to what should be a GOD. This set, man... I want to love it so much. I guess the cat god can't swing until you have 100 or more life.
I'm SO SICK of the "too strong for Standard" argument. It's the new "Dies to removal". We can have a two mana 4/4 with a zillion abilities, but we can't just have Accumulated Knowledge. Makes sense.
So many people saying 'late game'... what late game are we talking about with Vehicles and Copycat running the show?
This set was in the can when they realized 'oops we made all magic battlecruiser and nerfed counters and answers too much'. How on earth can we expect (unless there's a win con they DIDN'T intend that crops up) control to have a chance to get to late game.
7 cards in hand... when you play this card you've done nothing unless you have 7. Try to wedge this thing into Temur Tower... what do you kick out? UB is hopeless and will continue to be since you cannot get ahead with counters and removal. I'd still rather run Sphinx of the final word.
If so many people have to say 'if, if, maybe, etc' there is no way this will have a chance in hell. Even if they kick copycat (yes they should have done it already... cretins!) vehicles is still too efficient.
I really do wish we were in a place in standard where brewing with this guy could yield something but the requirement means you are only filling your hand and losing tempo with overcosted answers for a few short turns while they bring back creatures with non casting effects... which you have to take care of again.
I think we can safely assume copycat will be banned before the pro tour, and they already said that there will be stronger artifact answers in this set.
I want to like this card, as well, but I have to agree--probably the only way in which Kefnet becomes active is if you are also using Paradoxical Outcome to bounce everything else back into your hand.
Just for the sake of discussion, though, hypothetically speaking it could also be possible if you are playing Temur Tower, you have managed to keep the battlefield clear of opponent creatures, and you are at the "draw, maybe play a land, pass" stage. Alternatively, you could have one or two copies of Fevered Visions in play. Seems risky, though.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Yes, we dont need to just have powerful answers, lets ban the offending decks outright. Thats sure to make Standard great....
Sorry, but 7 cards required is painful. There better be something ridiculously pushed to warrant that restriction on this card.
UU - Counter Target Non-Creature Spell - Draw a Card - Cycle (U) - If this card was Cycled Draw a Card.
Something like that...
...You do realize that what you proposed is a 1 mana, instant speed Divination that will sometimes be used as a better Negate if absolutely necessary?
On the topic of Kefnet himself, I think that he's fine as a potential U finisher. There are serious problems with the viability of blue based control in the current standard format, but considering him in a vacuum, you can drop him mid to late game and still keep up a counter spell, which is a pretty good spot to be in for control. As for the viability of getting to 7 cards in hand, I'm actually a bit surprised that they didn't make him require 6 cards in hand to reflect Hazoret's condition of requiring 1 or fewer cards in hand. However, I also think that with the way that the current set is shaping up, it should be easier to stick 7 cards in hand than people expect, especially since you can use his ability to increase the number of cards in your hand by 2, if necessary. It does seem odd that a God would have an ability that's comparable to a lowly Azure Mage, though...
So... Better than I think people are giving it credit for, but certainly not a crazy good card, and probably not viable in the current meta at all.
Yes, we dont need to just have powerful answers, lets ban the offending decks outright. Thats sure to make Standard great....
It is not reasonable, at all, to expect them to have printed an answer to copy cat because they did not see the combo until well after this set was final. Copycat was literally a mistake, and a ban is the only option.
Yes, we dont need to just have powerful answers, lets ban the offending decks outright. Thats sure to make Standard great....
It is not reasonable, at all, to expect them to have printed an answer to copy cat because they did not see the combo until well after this set was final. Copycat was literally a mistake, and a ban is the only option.
The ban was the only option on March 13th but 3 WEEKS BEFORE they decided, 'oh look, there's one single deck that might gain a small percentage of the meta. Lets not ban the mistake.' So saying only option is really wishful thinking. Meanwhile the meta is crushed and more people are quitting standard. Good job Sam. Good job Mark.
I can't help but compare him to Thassa. They're the same CMC, color and even have the same P/T!...And Kefnet fails to compare.
1. His restriction is so much higher and harder to achieve. He might have indestructible and flying but if he can't block or attack most of the time then it doesn't matter. Sure, Thassa had to deal with devotion but that is so much easier to do and she was simply an indestructible enchantment when she isn't a creature and thus dodges a lot of things.
2. He has so much less impact. Thassa was not flashy but she was quite practical. She lets you consistently scry which can be quite useful and can make any creature you control unblockable. She could do this for herself, when she's a creature, and avoid being chumped altogether so that she put those nice stats to use. Not to mention, that the ability itself is cheap to use. That trumps Kefnet's flying and his paying four mana just to draw you an extra card!
So far, the Amonkhet gods are just lacking compared to Theros.
Amonkhet: They just sit there not doing anything unless you pay mana or meet there conditions to attack or block
Theros: The moment they hit the field, most of them change how something in the game works. The monocolored gods even have both passive and active abilities.
I really want to like these new gods but they're making it hard.
Yes, we dont need to just have powerful answers, lets ban the offending decks outright. Thats sure to make Standard great....
It is not reasonable, at all, to expect them to have printed an answer to copy cat because they did not see the combo until well after this set was final. Copycat was literally a mistake, and a ban is the only option.
The ban was the only option on March 13th but 3 WEEKS BEFORE they decided, 'oh look, there's one single deck that might gain a small percentage of the meta. Lets not ban the mistake.' So saying only option is really wishful thinking. Meanwhile the meta is crushed and more people are quitting standard. Good job Sam. Good job Mark.
How is it Mark's fault? He's design, not development.
I can't help but compare him to Thassa. They're the same CMC, color and even have the same P/T!...And Kefnet fails to compare.
1. His restriction is so much higher and harder to achieve. He might have indestructible and flying but if he can't block or attack most of the time then it doesn't matter. Sure, Thassa had to deal with devotion but that is so much easier to do and she was simply an indestructible enchantment when she isn't a creature and thus dodges a lot of things.
2. He has so much less impact. Thassa was not flashy but she was quite practical. She lets you consistently scry which can be quite useful and can make any creature you control unblockable. She could do this for herself, when she's a creature, and avoid being chumped altogether so that she put those nice stats to use. Not to mention, that the ability itself is cheap to use. That trumps Kefnet's flying and his paying four mana just to draw you an extra card!
So far, the Amonkhet gods are just lacking compared to Theros.
Amonkhet: They just sit there not doing anything unless you pay mana or meet there conditions to attack or block
Theros: The moment they hit the field, most of them change how something in the game works. The monocolored gods even have both passive and active abilities.
I really want to like these new gods but they're making it hard.
Yep. But I don't think these Gods are meant to be... as impressive. They aren't the king on this plane, and it shows.
I can't help but compare him to Thassa. They're the same CMC, color and even have the same P/T!...And Kefnet fails to compare.
1. His restriction is so much higher and harder to achieve. He might have indestructible and flying but if he can't block or attack most of the time then it doesn't matter. Sure, Thassa had to deal with devotion but that is so much easier to do and she was simply an indestructible enchantment when she isn't a creature and thus dodges a lot of things.
2. He has so much less impact. Thassa was not flashy but she was quite practical. She lets you consistently scry which can be quite useful and can make any creature you control unblockable. She could do this for herself, when she's a creature, and avoid being chumped altogether so that she put those nice stats to use. Not to mention, that the ability itself is cheap to use. That trumps Kefnet's flying and his paying four mana just to draw you an extra card!
So far, the Amonkhet gods are just lacking compared to Theros.
Amonkhet: They just sit there not doing anything unless you pay mana or meet there conditions to attack or block
Theros: The moment they hit the field, most of them change how something in the game works. The monocolored gods even have both passive and active abilities.
I really want to like these new gods but they're making it hard.
Yep. But I don't think these Gods are meant to be... as impressive. They aren't the king on this plane, and it shows. [/quote]
I know but it just feels like Wizards could have done a little better. Like if they got rid of the activated abilities and instead made them passive. If they did that Kefnet could be like this:
Kefnet, the Mindful 2U
Legendary Creature - God
Indestructible, Flying
Atk/Block only if 7 or more cards in hand.
At the beginning of your upkeep, draw a card.
5/5
At least like that Kefnet would stay useful even if he can't attack or block.
Not sure how that would work for Hazoret, continually cycling down cards seems like a pretty eh ability. But I agree, there is a lot more they could have done. Even the Theros Gods just feel a bit... eh, they should be bigger. I'm doubting the other three will be anything special though, I guess we'll just have to hope the next time they try Gods they're a bit more wow inducing.
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Dunes of Zairo
SHANDALAR
Innistrad - The Darkest Night
~THE RAVNICAN CONSORTIUM~
A Community Set
Commander: Allies & Adversaries
Real Egyptians Gods:
5/5 blocker, card draw engine that can double as a potential finisher. This value in this card is the versatility. I think it'll be good. it triggers revolt.
Many thanks to DNC at Heroes of the Plane Studios
The sad thing is that the yu-gi-oh Egyptian God cards are bad these days. Atleats they feel epic and godly.
That's power creep for you. But these Gods just don't feel impressive. I think it's also how cheap they are cost-wise. They just need more flash. Original Avacyn and Iona, the Myojin, cards like that feel Godly.
This set was in the can when they realized 'oops we made all magic battlecruiser and nerfed counters and answers too much'. How on earth can we expect (unless there's a win con they DIDN'T intend that crops up) control to have a chance to get to late game.
7 cards in hand... when you play this card you've done nothing unless you have 7. Try to wedge this thing into Temur Tower... what do you kick out? UB is hopeless and will continue to be since you cannot get ahead with counters and removal. I'd still rather run Sphinx of the final word.
If so many people have to say 'if, if, maybe, etc' there is no way this will have a chance in hell. Even if they kick copycat (yes they should have done it already... cretins!) vehicles is still too efficient.
I really do wish we were in a place in standard where brewing with this guy could yield something but the requirement means you are only filling your hand and losing tempo with overcosted answers for a few short turns while they bring back creatures with non casting effects... which you have to take care of again.
Standard has to change fundamentaly for this dude to see even relevant sideboard play. I apologize to hazoret, kefnet is just outright terrible and a disgrace to what should be a GOD. This set, man... I want to love it so much. I guess the cat god can't swing until you have 100 or more life.
I think we can safely assume copycat will be banned before the pro tour, and they already said that there will be stronger artifact answers in this set.
Sorry, but 7 cards required is painful. There better be something ridiculously pushed to warrant that restriction on this card.
UU - Counter Target Non-Creature Spell - Draw a Card - Cycle (U) - If this card was Cycled Draw a Card.
Something like that...
Spirits
Just for the sake of discussion, though, hypothetically speaking it could also be possible if you are playing Temur Tower, you have managed to keep the battlefield clear of opponent creatures, and you are at the "draw, maybe play a land, pass" stage. Alternatively, you could have one or two copies of Fevered Visions in play. Seems risky, though.
Speak for yourself—
when I saw how good Kaladesh was,
I knew they would have a hard time following it up without disappointment.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
...You do realize that what you proposed is a 1 mana, instant speed Divination that will sometimes be used as a better Negate if absolutely necessary?
On the topic of Kefnet himself, I think that he's fine as a potential U finisher. There are serious problems with the viability of blue based control in the current standard format, but considering him in a vacuum, you can drop him mid to late game and still keep up a counter spell, which is a pretty good spot to be in for control. As for the viability of getting to 7 cards in hand, I'm actually a bit surprised that they didn't make him require 6 cards in hand to reflect Hazoret's condition of requiring 1 or fewer cards in hand. However, I also think that with the way that the current set is shaping up, it should be easier to stick 7 cards in hand than people expect, especially since you can use his ability to increase the number of cards in your hand by 2, if necessary. It does seem odd that a God would have an ability that's comparable to a lowly Azure Mage, though...
So... Better than I think people are giving it credit for, but certainly not a crazy good card, and probably not viable in the current meta at all.
It is not reasonable, at all, to expect them to have printed an answer to copy cat because they did not see the combo until well after this set was final. Copycat was literally a mistake, and a ban is the only option.
As to my card there, I did say ridiculously pushed
Spirits
The ban was the only option on March 13th but 3 WEEKS BEFORE they decided, 'oh look, there's one single deck that might gain a small percentage of the meta. Lets not ban the mistake.' So saying only option is really wishful thinking. Meanwhile the meta is crushed and more people are quitting standard. Good job Sam. Good job Mark.
1. His restriction is so much higher and harder to achieve. He might have indestructible and flying but if he can't block or attack most of the time then it doesn't matter. Sure, Thassa had to deal with devotion but that is so much easier to do and she was simply an indestructible enchantment when she isn't a creature and thus dodges a lot of things.
2. He has so much less impact. Thassa was not flashy but she was quite practical. She lets you consistently scry which can be quite useful and can make any creature you control unblockable. She could do this for herself, when she's a creature, and avoid being chumped altogether so that she put those nice stats to use. Not to mention, that the ability itself is cheap to use. That trumps Kefnet's flying and his paying four mana just to draw you an extra card!
So far, the Amonkhet gods are just lacking compared to Theros.
Amonkhet: They just sit there not doing anything unless you pay mana or meet there conditions to attack or block
Theros: The moment they hit the field, most of them change how something in the game works. The monocolored gods even have both passive and active abilities.
I really want to like these new gods but they're making it hard.
BK'rrik Goodstuff
GWSythis Enchantress
URYusri Coin Flip
BRGKorvold Tokens
BGUYarok Lands Matter
WUBRaffine Looter
How is it Mark's fault? He's design, not development.
Yep. But I don't think these Gods are meant to be... as impressive. They aren't the king on this plane, and it shows.
Yep. But I don't think these Gods are meant to be... as impressive. They aren't the king on this plane, and it shows. [/quote]
I know but it just feels like Wizards could have done a little better. Like if they got rid of the activated abilities and instead made them passive. If they did that Kefnet could be like this:
Kefnet, the Mindful 2U
Legendary Creature - God
Indestructible, Flying
Atk/Block only if 7 or more cards in hand.
At the beginning of your upkeep, draw a card.
5/5
At least like that Kefnet would stay useful even if he can't attack or block.
BK'rrik Goodstuff
GWSythis Enchantress
URYusri Coin Flip
BRGKorvold Tokens
BGUYarok Lands Matter
WUBRaffine Looter