hope it's not too off topic, but is there a corner case where you can cycle a card and it's not discarding? for example, is there any replacement effect as in "whenever you would discard a card, exile it instead"?
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actually, come to think of it, how come these "whenever you cycle or discard a card" triggers don't trigger twice for cycling a card as normal?
that is, "whenever you cast a red or black creature card" would .. wouldn't that trigger twice when i cast a red-and-black creature?
[edit: ok, typing it out made my brain think and now i understand things better. essentially, there is only one triggered ability. after the event of casting my creature card, we look at all abilities to see if they trigger or not (and for this kind of event, this triggered ability can only trigger once; most triggered abilities only can trigger once per event except really weird ones like "whenever a creature blocks", where supposedly a single event like declaring blockers actually is considered to be made up of multiple events happening at the same time); this one triggered ability indeed does trigger (and just once).]
hope it's not too off topic, but is there a corner case where you can cycle a card and it's not discarding? for example, is there any replacement effect as in "whenever you would discard a card, exile it instead"?
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actually, come to think of it, how come these "whenever you cycle or discard a card" triggers don't trigger twice for cycling a card as normal?
that is, "whenever you cast a red or black creature card" would .. wouldn't that trigger twice when i cast a red-and-black creature?
[edit: ok, typing it out made my brain think and now i understand things better. essentially, there is only one triggered ability. after the event of casting my creature card, we look at all abilities to see if they trigger or not (and for this kind of event, this triggered ability can only trigger once; most triggered abilities only can trigger once per event except really weird ones like "whenever a creature blocks", where supposedly a single event like declaring blockers actually is considered to be made up of multiple events happening at the same time); this one triggered ability indeed does trigger (and just once).]
No effects of that type are usually worded to replace the act of putting it in the graveyard, not discarding it. (i.e they say discard ~ to exile)
RW Blaze Commando Soldier Swarm BW Edgewalker Clerics i.e. All the prevention R Ogre Menial (Fallen Feromancer) Tunnelin' Infectors GB Shaman of the Pack Elves URReclusive Artificer Artifact Control GBCatacomb Sifter Sac-Attack
Tiny Leader Decks
WU Geist of Saint Traft WKembha's Cats WRG Marath Slide Control
Wow, am I tired of them designing sets for standard and limited play exclusively..
Says the guy right after they released an entire Modern Masters set.
I think you're in the game for the wrong reasons if you're expecting them to design cards exclusively for other formats. Also these days every set gets a playable EDH card or two, more so than say legacy or cube playable. And they just downshifted a bunch of cards for pauper.. Judging by the amount of EDH decks you have ant he fact that you play pauper you should be ecstatic.
Comments like yours appear every time they make a new set. It's just white noise at this point because they aren't going to design a standard set using a whole bunch of cards they intend on playing in modern/edh/legacy/pauper. It makes no sense.
The interaction I'm questioning is Haunted Dead. Is it triggering once or twice? It's a single transaction but two cards.
Is it once or twice on Archfiend of Ifnir, etc?
The interaction I'm questioning is Haunted Dead. Is it triggering once or twice? It's a single transaction but two cards.
Is it once or twice on Archfiend of Ifnir, etc?
Should be twice. If it was once, it would say "whenever you cycle or discard one or more cards"
Got to be honest, as someone whos been waiting for Egypt Block forever, it feels like they put more effort into the Theros Gods. These don't feel or look God like at all, they just look like generic Legends.
Big fan of making Anubites their own thing though.
This. Hazoret doesn't feel like a God. I know the Myojin were a bit on the high side but the Gods in general should feel like Gods. Expensive, splashy, huge oomph. Hazoret doesn't excite me at all. She feels on par with Glorybringer, which is really bad. She's probably legitimately better than Glorybringer but she doesn't feel "bigger".
Love the Cartouche and its concept. Really great card too. The enchantment synergy is amazing. Man even Amonkhet has better enchantment matters than Theros did already.
No it doesn't. When a spell has multiple targets, each instance of targeting you or a permanent would trigger Rayne because they are separate instances of targeting. With the "cycle or discard" text, you're still only discarding one card off of a cycle. There is only one instance of a "cycle or discard" taking place so the ability only triggers once. It's clearly only worded that way to help people who don't realize that cycling involves discarding. It's awkward as hell but that seems to be true of a lot about this set so far.
Maybe it's worded that way (cycle or discard) because a new card will say something to the effect of "whenever you cycle a card return it to your hand instead of the graveyard". Thus allowing you to still trigger these effects.
Wow, am I tired of them designing sets for standard and limited play exclusively..
woah, you got the entire visual spoiler and were able to determine that there will be no modern-playable card in this set?
hmmm..... can I see it, I'm a limited player and I'd love to see the set.
I'm mostly talking about the recent sets in general, and after seeing Hazoret, my hype for the set is sorta' diminishing.. SOI had some really cool stuff, but I found Kaladesh and BfZ were mostly just standard playable, in my opinion.. There wasn't anything that's made a huge impact on EDH, modern, or even pauper in my area; maybe it's different in your area though!
So far the stuff I've seen here aren't really relevant outside of standard, Hazoret has synergy with madness and vehicles, but that doesn't extend outside of the current standard rotation, and with my experience from that last few sets is that this set could easily go the same way from the looks of it...
I was just expecting Hazoret to be great for EDH, as with the other Gods, but I'm not seeing anyway she would be as good as the Theros gods were for EDH, which led me pretty disappointed
Everyone has different opinions on everything, and playgroups/meta's change from place to place
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EDH: Bruna, Light of Alabaster | Karlov of the Ghost Council | Breya, Etherium Shaper | Marchesa, the Black Rose | Queen Marchesa | The Mimeoplasm | Avacyn, Angel of Hope |
Pauper:
Orzhov Nightsky Mimic
Frequent lurker and vorthos player
So does the Flameblade Adept triggers twice when i cycle a card? I mean you are cycling AND discarding a card
702.28c Some cards with cycling have abilities that trigger when they’re cycled. “When you cycle [this card]” means “When you discard [this card] to pay a cycling cost.” These abilities trigger from whatever zone the card winds up in after it’s cycled.
This rule seems to imply quite clearly that Flameblade Adept (and Archfiend of Ifnir) only get a single trigger from cycling.
Got to be honest, as someone whos been waiting for Egypt Block forever, it feels like they put more effort into the Theros Gods. These don't feel or look God like at all, they just look like generic Legends.
Big fan of making Anubites their own thing though.
I think that's what they are supposed to feel. I mean they don't rule the plane, Bolas does.
Maybe so. Gets the feeling they put a bit more into Theros though as a plane. I hope they don't cheap out on the Egyptian Mythology.
Based on Maro's article, his hesitancy to call it top-down or bottom-up for a while, and the comments on the Invocation theme, I'm calling it as more Bolas World than
Egyptian Mytholofy world. So prepare for it to be skipped. Egyptian Mythology is probably going to feel about as present as Enchantments in Theros. Major, but not the primary theme.
I love the theme and am really not feeling the mechanics of the set so far.
Gods are just indestructible creatures now? That's kind of lame. The Theros gods had many things that defined them as Gods which I think worked mechanically and flavorfully. I was impressed that they were able to come up with a "God"-type without creating a brand new card type and not just making creatures with huge stats and dropping keywords on them.
Amonkhet Gods? Just indestructible creatures.
I guess that works too.
(And personally, I was looking forward to making a Nicol Bolas EDH deck with the 6 color pips in the CMC adding to devotion to all the Amonkhet Gods.)
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Seriously, this makes me worried that don't have a lot of other good stuff to show. Kaladesh revealed a lot of good stuff in the first day, and there was still a lot of great material for the rest of the week.
Someone might have to refresh my memory, but given that Amonkhet is a large set I think it actually did it: It has an even ******** start into spoilerseason than eldritch moon had. And that is not something one should say lightly.
Did I just expect too much of an egyptian god? Or perhaps I'm just disappointed that the one I was most looking forward to is not only red, but another generic mess of abilities that's carefully crafted to not break limited in half. Well, guess I could always ask her if she wants a ride in my heart of kiran, Hazoret might be a nice girl nonetheless.
I'm actually a bit worried. The full-art lands, those ugly expeditions, the boring dual lands, I really hope Amonkhet delivers in the next days...
I'm SO SICK of the "too strong for Standard" argument. It's the new "Dies to removal". We can have a two mana 4/4 with a zillion abilities, but we can't just have Accumulated Knowledge. Makes sense.
I think Squee, Goblin Nabob has found a God to worship. In fact, I like Hazoret so much that I'm going to start brewing a commander decklist tomorrow evening. I would right now, but I have work today and tomorrow.
Gods are just indestructible creatures now? That's kind of lame. The Theros gods had many things that defined them as Gods which I think worked mechanically and flavorfully. I was impressed that they were able to come up with a "God"-type without creating a brand new card type and not just making creatures with huge stats and dropping keywords on them.
Amonkhet Gods? Just indestructible creatures.
I guess that works too.
Maro made it explicitly clear that Gods of various planes will have some overlaps, but it won't always be the same overlaps. In this case, yes, the Gods have indestructible for many of the same reasons Theros' Gods do. When we get to Norse world, however, their Gods won't, because Norse gods could in fact be killed.
Personally, I would have made the Gods artifacts this time around. But I'm fine with Gods that are simply creatures.
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
The thing that annoys me about Hazoret is something that's unlikely to be an issue with the other gods: she has haste. That means that you really want her to be able to be able to attack as soon as you drop her into play, because otherwise you're outright losing a significant part of her functionality. So where the other gods will likely be able to get some mileage out of using their activated abilities to progress toward the condition that turns them "on," if you're having to use Hazoret's ability to activate her, the haste is unlikely to matter - which means you're pouring mana and cards into supporting a 5/4 indestructible beatstick.
(Just based on which keywords work and don't work with indestructible, the keywords of the other gods are likely to be either evasion abilities - menace for Bontu, trample for Rhonas, and obviously flying for the blue god - or otherwise make them more effective in combat - Oketra likely has vigilance. Only haste produces this kind of self-tension with the Amonkhetu god "template.")
The end result is that Hazoret is a card that's really only worth playing in decks that are already dumping their hands without her assistance: RDW, Madness decks, and that's about it. Part of the reason the gods were made monocolor was so that they would fit in a wide variety of decks, but Hazoret's applications are still pretty narrow, even if it's not the mana required to cast her that's responsible for that narrowness.
...
The stuff from the mechanics article I actually have a more favorable view of, though that's mostly in a "good for their rarity" way, rather than a "that's a seriously sweet card" way. (Nest of Scarabs is the big exception - that card is going to do some fun things, and I'm looking forward to it.)
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"The true measure of all heroes is not what they achieve, but who they inspire." —Triumph of Gerrard
Got to be honest, as someone whos been waiting for Egypt Block forever, it feels like they put more effort into the Theros Gods. These don't feel or look God like at all, they just look like generic Legends.
Big fan of making Anubites their own thing though.
I think that's what they are supposed to feel. I mean they don't rule the plane, Bolas does.
Maybe so. Gets the feeling they put a bit more into Theros though as a plane. I hope they don't cheap out on the Egyptian Mythology.
Based on Maro's article, his hesitancy to call it top-down or bottom-up for a while, and the comments on the Invocation theme, I'm calling it as more Bolas World than
Egyptian Mytholofy world. So prepare for it to be skipped. Egyptian Mythology is probably going to feel about as present as Enchantments in Theros. Major, but not the primary theme.
His article today make it feel like they are mixed, with this set more focused on Egyptian Mythology and hour on Bolas world. And if they want to return Amonkhet Egyptian Mythology has a broader space to play in then Bolas world I think.
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
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actually, come to think of it, how come these "whenever you cycle or discard a card" triggers don't trigger twice for cycling a card as normal?
that is, "whenever you cast a red or black creature card" would .. wouldn't that trigger twice when i cast a red-and-black creature?
[edit: ok, typing it out made my brain think and now i understand things better. essentially, there is only one triggered ability. after the event of casting my creature card, we look at all abilities to see if they trigger or not (and for this kind of event, this triggered ability can only trigger once; most triggered abilities only can trigger once per event except really weird ones like "whenever a creature blocks", where supposedly a single event like declaring blockers actually is considered to be made up of multiple events happening at the same time); this one triggered ability indeed does trigger (and just once).]
Goblins have poor impulse control. Don't click this link!!
some of my favourite flavour text:
Wayward Soul
"no home no heart no hope"
—Stronghold graffito
Raging Goblin
He raged at the world, at his family, at his life. But mostly he just raged.
No effects of that type are usually worded to replace the act of putting it in the graveyard, not discarding it. (i.e they say discard ~ to exile)
look at necropotence or the reminder text on a madness card abandon reason
EDH DECKS:
GBCatacomb Sifter Sac-Attack
Says the guy right after they released an entire Modern Masters set.
I think you're in the game for the wrong reasons if you're expecting them to design cards exclusively for other formats. Also these days every set gets a playable EDH card or two, more so than say legacy or cube playable. And they just downshifted a bunch of cards for pauper.. Judging by the amount of EDH decks you have ant he fact that you play pauper you should be ecstatic.
Comments like yours appear every time they make a new set. It's just white noise at this point because they aren't going to design a standard set using a whole bunch of cards they intend on playing in modern/edh/legacy/pauper. It makes no sense.
Is it once or twice on Archfiend of Ifnir, etc?
so true..
URW PillowFort Stasis (costruction)
modern:
U Taking Turns combo
pauper:
UB Servitor Control
xenob8 : you know you are going to have a bad time when opponent starts with snow covered island
Should be twice. If it was once, it would say "whenever you cycle or discard one or more cards"
Choose one of these judge of creation:
Make Strionic Resonator shine!
You can not grasp the true form of Ashiok's attack!
This. Hazoret doesn't feel like a God. I know the Myojin were a bit on the high side but the Gods in general should feel like Gods. Expensive, splashy, huge oomph. Hazoret doesn't excite me at all. She feels on par with Glorybringer, which is really bad. She's probably legitimately better than Glorybringer but she doesn't feel "bigger".
woah, you got the entire visual spoiler and were able to determine that there will be no modern-playable card in this set?
hmmm..... can I see it, I'm a limited player and I'd love to see the set.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
No it doesn't. When a spell has multiple targets, each instance of targeting you or a permanent would trigger Rayne because they are separate instances of targeting. With the "cycle or discard" text, you're still only discarding one card off of a cycle. There is only one instance of a "cycle or discard" taking place so the ability only triggers once. It's clearly only worded that way to help people who don't realize that cycling involves discarding. It's awkward as hell but that seems to be true of a lot about this set so far.
I'm mostly talking about the recent sets in general, and after seeing Hazoret, my hype for the set is sorta' diminishing.. SOI had some really cool stuff, but I found Kaladesh and BfZ were mostly just standard playable, in my opinion.. There wasn't anything that's made a huge impact on EDH, modern, or even pauper in my area; maybe it's different in your area though!
So far the stuff I've seen here aren't really relevant outside of standard, Hazoret has synergy with madness and vehicles, but that doesn't extend outside of the current standard rotation, and with my experience from that last few sets is that this set could easily go the same way from the looks of it...
I was just expecting Hazoret to be great for EDH, as with the other Gods, but I'm not seeing anyway she would be as good as the Theros gods were for EDH, which led me pretty disappointed
Everyone has different opinions on everything, and playgroups/meta's change from place to place
Bruna, Light of Alabaster | Karlov of the Ghost Council | Breya, Etherium Shaper | Marchesa, the Black Rose | Queen Marchesa | The Mimeoplasm | Avacyn, Angel of Hope |
Pauper:
Orzhov Nightsky Mimic
Frequent lurker and vorthos player
702.28c Some cards with cycling have abilities that trigger when they’re cycled. “When you cycle [this card]” means “When you discard [this card] to pay a cycling cost.” These abilities trigger from whatever zone the card winds up in after it’s cycled.
This rule seems to imply quite clearly that Flameblade Adept (and Archfiend of Ifnir) only get a single trigger from cycling.
Based on Maro's article, his hesitancy to call it top-down or bottom-up for a while, and the comments on the Invocation theme, I'm calling it as more Bolas World than
Egyptian Mytholofy world. So prepare for it to be skipped. Egyptian Mythology is probably going to feel about as present as Enchantments in Theros. Major, but not the primary theme.
Gods are just indestructible creatures now? That's kind of lame. The Theros gods had many things that defined them as Gods which I think worked mechanically and flavorfully. I was impressed that they were able to come up with a "God"-type without creating a brand new card type and not just making creatures with huge stats and dropping keywords on them.
Amonkhet Gods? Just indestructible creatures.
I guess that works too.
(And personally, I was looking forward to making a Nicol Bolas EDH deck with the 6 color pips in the CMC adding to devotion to all the Amonkhet Gods.)
Thread | Draft
She's a resilient beater that turns lands into Shocks to the face.
She's not a great Commander, but she is a good aggro finisher.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Seriously, this makes me worried that don't have a lot of other good stuff to show. Kaladesh revealed a lot of good stuff in the first day, and there was still a lot of great material for the rest of the week.
Did I just expect too much of an egyptian god? Or perhaps I'm just disappointed that the one I was most looking forward to is not only red, but another generic mess of abilities that's carefully crafted to not break limited in half. Well, guess I could always ask her if she wants a ride in my heart of kiran, Hazoret might be a nice girl nonetheless.
I'm actually a bit worried. The full-art lands, those ugly expeditions, the boring dual lands, I really hope Amonkhet delivers in the next days...
Maro made it explicitly clear that Gods of various planes will have some overlaps, but it won't always be the same overlaps. In this case, yes, the Gods have indestructible for many of the same reasons Theros' Gods do. When we get to Norse world, however, their Gods won't, because Norse gods could in fact be killed.
Personally, I would have made the Gods artifacts this time around. But I'm fine with Gods that are simply creatures.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
(Just based on which keywords work and don't work with indestructible, the keywords of the other gods are likely to be either evasion abilities - menace for Bontu, trample for Rhonas, and obviously flying for the blue god - or otherwise make them more effective in combat - Oketra likely has vigilance. Only haste produces this kind of self-tension with the Amonkhetu god "template.")
The end result is that Hazoret is a card that's really only worth playing in decks that are already dumping their hands without her assistance: RDW, Madness decks, and that's about it. Part of the reason the gods were made monocolor was so that they would fit in a wide variety of decks, but Hazoret's applications are still pretty narrow, even if it's not the mana required to cast her that's responsible for that narrowness.
...
The stuff from the mechanics article I actually have a more favorable view of, though that's mostly in a "good for their rarity" way, rather than a "that's a seriously sweet card" way. (Nest of Scarabs is the big exception - that card is going to do some fun things, and I'm looking forward to it.)
His article today make it feel like they are mixed, with this set more focused on Egyptian Mythology and hour on Bolas world. And if they want to return Amonkhet Egyptian Mythology has a broader space to play in then Bolas world I think.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"