I actually think they would have been fine without the basic land types. Adding them clearly slots these for possible play in longer formats (Modern).
I wouldn't expect to see the other 5 in Hour of Devastation. That's not how they seem to do things nowadays. We seem to get 5 duals in the big block only:
Is there still room for an uncommon or common cycle of cycling lands? I'd Really like that for limited purposes.
There are 6 slots for lands left. None can be a cycle of the old cycle lands due to the number crunch, so who knows what else we'll get.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
I wonder if we'll see reprints of the Mirage Fetches or the long-awaited enemy cycle? Those would be nice budget alternatives to the Onslaught and Zendikar fetches.
But why should anyone play an "Enters the battlefield tapped" fetchland to fetch another land that enters the battlefield tapped. This is madness.
To complete the cycle and also it's a budget versions of the real fetch lands.
When I saw these duals originally, I thought of the mirage fetches but realized later that the number crunch negates that possibility. I don't think any sane person would mirage fetch for a ETB tap land anyway, but you can still fetch a basic. I do like the idea of an enemy cycle of those lands, for simple color fixing if people do run 3 color decks in standard. Plus if those fetches were reprinted, the would be a nice budget version for not so competitive modern play.
The more I look at these lands, the more I feel that that their fetchability is sort of redundant.
The "enter the battlefield tapped" part is obvious - if you want an untapped land you will no doubt search for ABUR/Shocks first (and BFZ lands if it can etb untapped) before these and if you somehow already have them all in your hand or battlefield when that happens, mana fixing shouldn't be too much of a problem and you'll rather search for a basic land for the speed instead. Even if you don't need the land the enter the battlefield untapped, the Cycling half of these cards kick in - you'll still prefer to find a basic land because you'll rather draw into these lands (for cycling) then into your basic land later (remember by this time mana fixing isn't an issue because you already have your shocklands)... then for some decks there's still the compelling potential Blood Moon reason on top of that.
The second half also applies to the slower decks - you'll still want these cards to be in your hand, so ultimately you'll stick to fetching for other alternatives instead - even searching a shockland tapped because you don't need the mana now is better than searching for these and using up their cycling potential later in the game.
Pretty much the only few reasons you have to be fetching for these are you absolutely have no other duals in your deck and need the mana fixing that badly (which is honestly hard to think considering even a basic mixture of BFZlands and basic lands will justify fetching BFZlands over these), you have a way to return the lands from the battlefield to your hand (whether via graveyard or not) to make use of the cycling. No one is definitely specifically adding Amulet of Vigor for these and if your deck already has the Amulet, well it already works with everything else and the Cycling "I'll still rather have this in hand" part is still active, making it pointless again.
Not saying these are bad, of course, the very fact they are lands that produce 2 colored mana and have cycling has its uses and advantages for some decks, but when both of its most obvious properties (ETBT and Cycling) both passively act against the fetchability of the card and you can't solve both with a single card/strategy, it makes it having the basic land types on these cards feel like almost the most redundant use of those types ever (like I said the chances of you really needing the mana fixing and willing to forgo the cycling is so miniscule compared to you having no mana fixing problems and preferring to fetch a basic land so that you can use cycling later that it's almost a joke).
The more I look at these lands, the more I feel that that their fetchability is sort of redundant.
The "enter the battlefield tapped" part is obvious - if you want an untapped land you will no doubt search for ABUR/Shocks first (and BFZ lands if it can etb untapped) before these and if you somehow already have them all in your hand or battlefield when that happens, mana fixing shouldn't be too much of a problem and you'll rather search for a basic land for the speed instead. Even if you don't need the land the enter the battlefield untapped, the Cycling half of these cards kick in - you'll still prefer to find a basic land because you'll rather draw into these lands (for cycling) then into your basic land later (remember by this time mana fixing isn't an issue because you already have your shocklands)... then for some decks there's still the compelling potential Blood Moon reason on top of that.
The second half also applies to the slower decks - you'll still want these cards to be in your hand, so ultimately you'll stick to fetching for other alternatives instead - even searching a shockland tapped because you don't need the mana now is better than searching for these and using up their cycling potential later in the game.
Pretty much the only few reasons you have to be fetching for these are you absolutely have no other duals in your deck and need the mana fixing that badly (which is honestly hard to think considering even a basic mixture of BFZlands and basic lands will justify fetching BFZlands over these), you have a way to return the lands from the battlefield to your hand (whether via graveyard or not) to make use of the cycling. No one is definitely specifically adding Amulet of Vigor for these and if your deck already has the Amulet, well it already works with everything else and the Cycling "I'll still rather have this in hand" part is still active, making it pointless again.
Not saying these are bad, of course, the very fact they are lands that produce 2 colored mana and have cycling has its uses and advantages for some decks, but when both of its most obvious properties (ETBT and Cycling) both passively act against the fetchability of the card and you can't solve both with a single card/strategy, it makes it having the basic land types on these cards feel like almost the most redundant use of those types ever (like I said the chances of you really needing the mana fixing and willing to forgo the cycling is so miniscule compared to you having no mana fixing problems and preferring to fetch a basic land so that you can use cycling later that it's almost a joke).
I honestly think that's the reason the basic land types were added to these. These don't get as much of a benefit from having them, so the power level of these lands having them versus not having them isn't as big of a difference compared to most other land cycles. No one would look twice at the BFZ duals if they didn't have basic land types, for example. Or, consider how amazing the Scry lands or Fast lands would be if they did have them.
when I clearly want to draw them lategame instead of basics, to cycle them away. Now I think that we should look beyond the pure fetchability. Basic land types are also nice for cards like Mutilate or Vedalken Shackles. Or green ramp spells that look for basic land types (Gaea's BountyRanger's PathSkyshroud Claim). Maybe they will print some cards that return Lands with a certain basic land type from the graveyard to play - some kind of anti- Boil.
Biggest thing is probably going to be the synergy with the SOI lands- the preview article suggests this was the main reason for the land type addition.
when I clearly want to draw them lategame instead of basics, to cycle them away. Now I think that we should look beyond the pure fetchability. Basic land types are also nice for cards like Mutilate or Vedalken Shackles. Or green ramp spells that look for basic land types (Gaea's BountyRanger's PathSkyshroud Claim). Maybe they will print some cards that return Lands with a certain basic land type from the graveyard to play - some kind of anti- Boil.
Biggest thing is probably going to be the synergy with the SOI lands- the preview article suggests this was the main reason for the land type addition.
Yup. Basics in-hand matter in Standard right now. Plenty good reason.
And that's only in Standard. Consider EDH as well, where Green especially packs a lot of cards like Wood Elves, Nature's Lore and Skyshroud Claim. And that's on top of the Fetches. The more you can fetch, the better. Then there's the synergy with the afformentioned SOI lands and the old checklands (Glacial Fortress and pals) that matter. So while it's not a huge benefit, it's certainly something to keep in mind.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Loving Amonkhet so far, especially with all these cycling cards. Crossing my fingers for an Astral Slide reprint or functional reprint like an AS with legs would be just fine.
These seem very nice lands if you ask me, am looking forward to picking up a couple more Dual lands for some of my commander decks I have laying around at the moment.
Are people actually thinking about playing ETB tapped lands in Modern in order to spend 2 mana doing nothing for multiple turns to make Splendid Reclamation slightly more effective?
I encourage these people to attend tourneys. I'm looking forward to the free byes.
Meh these seem okay in EDH. I'm kinda surprised they didn't do the check lands from BFZ, would have completed that cycle, no pun intended.
Wizards likes to flip-flop between printing Enemy and Allied cycles to keep things relatively balanced, the last cycle we got were enemy coloured. Maybe they'll finish the BFZ cycle in Hour of Devestation?
All you people with the 'complete my cycle' talk need to get in line and not complain when a set takes a few years to complete. I'm still waiting for my enemy colored talismans (Talisman of Indulgence) and enemy colored Odyssey filterlands (Skycloud Expanse)!
Meh these seem okay in EDH. I'm kinda surprised they didn't do the check lands from BFZ, would have completed that cycle, no pun intended.
Wizards likes to flip-flop between printing Enemy and Allied cycles to keep things relatively balanced, the last cycle we got were enemy coloured. Maybe they'll finish the BFZ cycle in Hour of Devestation?
I would think that makes sense but, WotC has a tendency to defy that expectation. I know that they probably wouldn't have the completed cycle in standard together. I wish they'd reprint the enemy buddy lands, I may have to wait for another conspiracy or masters block for that.
I actually think they would have been fine without the basic land types. Adding them clearly slots these for possible play in longer formats (Modern).
I wouldn't expect to see the other 5 in Hour of Devastation. That's not how they seem to do things nowadays. We seem to get 5 duals in the big block only:
BFZ: 5 allied battlelands, 2 enemy manlands
OGW: 3 enemy manlands
(2 cycles, but this is the "land plane")
SOI: 5 allied shadowlands
EMN: nothing
KLD: 5 enemy fastlands
AER: nothing
AKH: 5 allied cycling duals
HOD: (probably nothing)
We have unfinished cycles in battlelands and shadowlands. I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't see those first.
Also, I doubt these will ever be called anything but the "cycling duals." Simplest is best.
On 7/14/10, broke 1900 mark! <3 ROE.
There are 6 slots for lands left. None can be a cycle of the old cycle lands due to the number crunch, so who knows what else we'll get.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
A set of the 5 'guild gates' of this set and a standalone, likely mythic, likely legendary. That's most likely
When I saw these duals originally, I thought of the mirage fetches but realized later that the number crunch negates that possibility. I don't think any sane person would mirage fetch for a ETB tap land anyway, but you can still fetch a basic. I do like the idea of an enemy cycle of those lands, for simple color fixing if people do run 3 color decks in standard. Plus if those fetches were reprinted, the would be a nice budget version for not so competitive modern play.
I feel like they're better in slow control decks but fast aggro decks and combo decks that rely on hitting land drops don't want these
The "enter the battlefield tapped" part is obvious - if you want an untapped land you will no doubt search for ABUR/Shocks first (and BFZ lands if it can etb untapped) before these and if you somehow already have them all in your hand or battlefield when that happens, mana fixing shouldn't be too much of a problem and you'll rather search for a basic land for the speed instead. Even if you don't need the land the enter the battlefield untapped, the Cycling half of these cards kick in - you'll still prefer to find a basic land because you'll rather draw into these lands (for cycling) then into your basic land later (remember by this time mana fixing isn't an issue because you already have your shocklands)... then for some decks there's still the compelling potential Blood Moon reason on top of that.
The second half also applies to the slower decks - you'll still want these cards to be in your hand, so ultimately you'll stick to fetching for other alternatives instead - even searching a shockland tapped because you don't need the mana now is better than searching for these and using up their cycling potential later in the game.
Pretty much the only few reasons you have to be fetching for these are you absolutely have no other duals in your deck and need the mana fixing that badly (which is honestly hard to think considering even a basic mixture of BFZlands and basic lands will justify fetching BFZlands over these), you have a way to return the lands from the battlefield to your hand (whether via graveyard or not) to make use of the cycling. No one is definitely specifically adding Amulet of Vigor for these and if your deck already has the Amulet, well it already works with everything else and the Cycling "I'll still rather have this in hand" part is still active, making it pointless again.
Not saying these are bad, of course, the very fact they are lands that produce 2 colored mana and have cycling has its uses and advantages for some decks, but when both of its most obvious properties (ETBT and Cycling) both passively act against the fetchability of the card and you can't solve both with a single card/strategy, it makes it having the basic land types on these cards feel like almost the most redundant use of those types ever (like I said the chances of you really needing the mana fixing and willing to forgo the cycling is so miniscule compared to you having no mana fixing problems and preferring to fetch a basic land so that you can use cycling later that it's almost a joke).
I honestly think that's the reason the basic land types were added to these. These don't get as much of a benefit from having them, so the power level of these lands having them versus not having them isn't as big of a difference compared to most other land cycles. No one would look twice at the BFZ duals if they didn't have basic land types, for example. Or, consider how amazing the Scry lands or Fast lands would be if they did have them.
Biggest thing is probably going to be the synergy with the SOI lands- the preview article suggests this was the main reason for the land type addition.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
Yup. Basics in-hand matter in Standard right now. Plenty good reason.
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
I encourage these people to attend tourneys. I'm looking forward to the free byes.
Wizards likes to flip-flop between printing Enemy and Allied cycles to keep things relatively balanced, the last cycle we got were enemy coloured. Maybe they'll finish the BFZ cycle in Hour of Devestation?
Standard:
UR Ral Combo
Modern:
U Merfolk
R Goblins
Commander
RB Grenzo, Dungeon Warden
R Feldon of the Third Path
Enemy colors always get the shaft.
(W/U)(B/R)GForm of Progenitus, Shape of a Scrubland
BRGJund Tokens with Prossh, the Magic Dragon Foil
URGAnimar, the RUG CleanerFoil
RRRFeldon of the Third Path 2.0 Foil
BG(B/G)Not Another Meren DeckFoil
UR(U/R)Mizzix, Y Control and X Burn Spells
(W/U)(B/R)GHarold Ramos - The 35 Foot Long Twinkie (In +1/+1 counters)
UB(U/B)Dragonlord Silumgar