Sweet Christmas! Basic land types more than make up for entering tapped. Cool stuff. I could see these being played in Modern, albeit as one-ofs, perhaps.
More than likely they'll be played alongside Scapeshift and/or loam. Being able to cycle deeper into your deck if you don't resolve a Titan/Scapeshift while also being mountains for when you do land a Titan/Scapeshift is really potent. Loam interactions may spawn a new archetype. Hell, even Splendid Reclamation might make a splash in the format because of them.
Here's for hoping WOTC prints enemy versions soon, but I wouldn't bother to hold a candle to it. That being said though, I love these as it is...
The problem they keep running into with enemy duals is that they keep coming out with cool new designs for dual lands, but whenever they get to the enemy half, they have to decide between printing the enemy half of the current cycle, or reaching back to complete a previous cycle, which leaves another cycle left to be completed either way... It's a vicious cycle of cycles. That said, I do hope they get some of these fetchable dual cycles completed, as they are pretty amazing.
Indeed. I am still bothered that enemy-colored battlelands were not in the Battle for Zendikar block. It is interesting as WOTC FINALLY got around to the enemy-colored fastlands in the Kaladesh block. Personally, and I am sure I can speak for many others, I hope we don't have to wait too much longer for particular cycles of certain duals and what not. I want to complete some of my collection of mana-fixing for my cube.
Well, that's exactly the problem I mean. Because if they had completed the battlelands cycle in BFZ, we'd be all up in their case for not completing the manlands cycle. And they obviously can't do both, because then the mana fixing for standard ends up all out of whack.
Why do they always need to come into play tapped? :'|
If they didn't, these would be a hell of a lot more powerful than the ABUR duals. Since those cards are on the reserved list, and cards cannot have the exact same likeness as the ABUR duals since they are on the reserved list, WOTC is kind of forced to make the duals as we are seeing them now, mainly with drawbacks. Annoying, I know...
Why do they always need to come into play tapped? :'|
If they didn't, these would be a hell of a lot more powerful than the ABUR duals. Since those cards are on the reserved list, and cards cannot have the exact same likeness as the ABUR duals since they are on the reserved list, WOTC is kind of forced to make the duals as we are seeing them now, mainly with drawbacks. Annoying, I know...
There's nothing preventing a card from being strictly better when it comes to the Reserve List. There's the whole "spirit of the Reserve list" thing, but if you believe there's a legal reason for the Reserve List, legality only cares about technicality and these, if they ETB'd untapped, would not violate the Reserve List.
I just care that there's no possible way for these to ETB untapped. They always enter tapped. I'd like some sort of clause that allows them to ETB untapped, but alas :/
But they'd better immediately finish this cycle in Hour of Devastation. I'm going to be rather salty if I have to wait until they eventually get around to revisiting cycling again to finally get a GB one of these.
it'll be interesting to see how they play in modern. They'll see play for sure in standard because they're dual lands, just I'm not sure where they are in comparison to shock lands
More important, I think, is the fact that you can reveal these for shadow lands, then discard them later. Could be wrong though. Otherwise set's looking sweet so far.
You can reveal battle-lands and shock-lands for shadow-lands so you can use these to. Shadow-lands ask for the card subtype, not its name.
I know it's a huge shot in the dark but i hope they print the enemies versions in Hour of Devastation.
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Why do they always need to come into play tapped? :'|
If they didn't, these would be a hell of a lot more powerful than the ABUR duals. Since those cards are on the reserved list, and cards cannot have the exact same likeness as the ABUR duals since they are on the reserved list, WOTC is kind of forced to make the duals as we are seeing them now, mainly with drawbacks. Annoying, I know...
To be fair, if these did just always come in untapped they would still be different enough from ABUR duels that it would satisfy there requirement of "no functional reprints on reserved list cards". They never said they couldn't print strictly better versions of reserved cards.
They want to keep the lands simple, making them have some "enters tapped unless you cycled" just seems unnecessary and rarely a factor. Just give them time and I am sure you will be surprised with how good they are. These are ridiculously powerful even if they do always come in untapped.
Also, wizards claims to not test cards for modern but these definitely seem like a nudge for control in modern. These entering tapped makes them unplayable in traditional aggro decks, but they help control dig for a turn 7 answer or wincon pretty well. The fact that these always enter tapped actually makes them better for control than any other strategy, which is something everyone seems to agree we have needed from cards recently.
I only play a little modern, so not sure if my opinion is worth too much here, but these just seem ok? Mono-colored decks in modern don't play the existing cycle lands as far as I know. I can see Splendid Reclamation decks liking them but otherwise I'm not sure.
More important, I think, is the fact that you can reveal these for shadow lands, then discard them later. Could be wrong though. Otherwise set's looking sweet so far.
There are no Modern-legal cycling lands at the moment. The cycling lands were last printed in Onslaught.
There's nothing preventing a card from being strictly better when it comes to the Reserve List. There's the whole "spirit of the Reserve list" thing, but if you believe there's a legal reason for the Reserve List, legality only cares about technicality and these, if they ETB'd untapped, would not violate the Reserve List.
I just care that there's no possible way for these to ETB untapped. They always enter tapped. I'd like some sort of clause that allows them to ETB untapped, but alas :/
I agree. I could've sworn that "power level" of certain cards was a factor of some cards on the reserved list, and that was what made the ABUR duals unique, other than simply a collectors item. Also, didn't the Spirit of the reserved list only care about hard-to-find foil reprints, such as why the FTV and judge foils of reserve list cards are no longer in print?
But they'd better immediately finish this cycle in Hour of Devastation. I'm going to be rather salty if I have to wait until they eventually get around to revisiting cycling again to finally get a GB one of these.
Oh I'm on the same boat man.
The difference is I'm getting one of each of the hopefully 10
Because it's a budget shock land cycle and will always budget because there's no dodging the enter tapped thing. Unless you have amulet of vigor on the field.
Why do they always need to come into play tapped? :'|
If they didn't, these would be a hell of a lot more powerful than the ABUR duals. Since those cards are on the reserved list, and cards cannot have the exact same likeness as the ABUR duals since they are on the reserved list, WOTC is kind of forced to make the duals as we are seeing them now, mainly with drawbacks. Annoying, I know...
There's nothing preventing a card from being strictly better when it comes to the Reserve List. There's the whole "spirit of the Reserve list" thing, but if you believe there's a legal reason for the Reserve List, legality only cares about technicality and these, if they ETB'd untapped, would not violate the Reserve List.
I just care that there's no possible way for these to ETB untapped. They always enter tapped. I'd like some sort of clause that allows them to ETB untapped, but alas :/
The reserve list has nothing to do with it. Fetchable duals that can come into play untapped have to walk a fine line. You don't want to make it too easy, or your formats devolve into "play everything". You don't want to make it too hard, or nobody will bother. Shocks are pretty much where it's at.
THS-block Temples had no way of coming into play untapped, but they were pretty good in Standard. Scry was their thing. Cycling is the thing that these do. The typing gives them a shot at Modern play. If you let them come into play untapped, you have to make the cost greater than paying 2 life, otherwise these would be WAY better than Shocklands. You have to make the condition harder than controlling two basics, or these would be WAYYYYY better than BFZ lands.
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So if you cycle one of these with The Gitrog Monster out, you draw two cards? Seems like there's some kind of midrange or control deck that begging to be built with the Monster, the Demon, and Splendid Reclamation. Heck, you could get really cute and throw in a Retreat to Hagra for shiggles.
Bicycle lands? (Evan Erwin on twitter)
Amonkhet lands? (boring)
c'mon guys! Get the creative juices flowing ...
Never-played-outside-Standard lands.
Seriously, these look like they needed to fill the rare lands quota and just upgraded an EtbT uncommon dual with cycling by giving them basic land types.
Why do they always need to come into play tapped? :'|
Because they should never... NEVER... be better than Duals.
Well, certainly not in Standard. I don't know that there's anything inherently wrong with slightly better duals in a Commander set, for example. It'd shake up Legacy and Vintage, sure. I guess you would need a serious print run.
But they'd better immediately finish this cycle in Hour of Devastation. I'm going to be rather salty if I have to wait until they eventually get around to revisiting cycling again to finally get a GB one of these.
Oh I'm on the same boat man.
The difference is I'm getting one of each of the hopefully 10
Because it's a budget shock land cycle and will always budget because there's no dodging the enter tapped thing. Unless you have amulet of vigor on the field.
I really like the art on these ones. Has a nice old school feeling reminding me of the early sets. The lands themselves seem okay. I hope they won't cost too much.
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Standard
none
Modern UBG B/U/G control BBB MBC WUR Control WWW Prison RRR Goblins
Legacy BBB Pox UBG B/U/G Control UWU StoneBlade UW Miracle Control
These are good, balanced lands. Basic types AND cycling AND option to come into play untapped would be totally busted.
That fact has nothing to do with the reserve list, which allows strictly better cards. Why you would actually want strictly better ABUR duals is beyond me. It sounds cool, but would be bad gameplay.
Why do they always need to come into play tapped? :'|
If they didn't, these would be a hell of a lot more powerful than the ABUR duals. Since those cards are on the reserved list, and cards cannot have the exact same likeness as the ABUR duals since they are on the reserved list, WOTC is kind of forced to make the duals as we are seeing them now, mainly with drawbacks. Annoying, I know...
I think the issue with coming into play untapped has little to do with the reserve list. It has more to do with design space. If you design dual lands that can come in untapped with basic land types and cycle, why on earth would you ever play another dual land? How would you ever design future lands that could possibly compete with that? The power creep on a card like that would be dangerous. KnickM hit it right - the format would devolve into 4 color goodstuff like what we just saw with Dragons rotating out last year.
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More than likely they'll be played alongside Scapeshift and/or loam. Being able to cycle deeper into your deck if you don't resolve a Titan/Scapeshift while also being mountains for when you do land a Titan/Scapeshift is really potent. Loam interactions may spawn a new archetype. Hell, even Splendid Reclamation might make a splash in the format because of them.
Cycling duals are fantastic.
If they didn't, these would be a hell of a lot more powerful than the ABUR duals. Since those cards are on the reserved list, and cards cannot have the exact same likeness as the ABUR duals since they are on the reserved list, WOTC is kind of forced to make the duals as we are seeing them now, mainly with drawbacks. Annoying, I know...
EDH DECKS
Currently under construction
MAGECRAFT STORM
-Veyran, Voice of Duality-
Protection from Degeneracy
Do not pray for an easy life. Pray for the strength to endure a difficult one.
My 720 Peasant Cube
There's nothing preventing a card from being strictly better when it comes to the Reserve List. There's the whole "spirit of the Reserve list" thing, but if you believe there's a legal reason for the Reserve List, legality only cares about technicality and these, if they ETB'd untapped, would not violate the Reserve List.
I just care that there's no possible way for these to ETB untapped. They always enter tapped. I'd like some sort of clause that allows them to ETB untapped, but alas :/
But they'd better immediately finish this cycle in Hour of Devastation. I'm going to be rather salty if I have to wait until they eventually get around to revisiting cycling again to finally get a GB one of these.
You can reveal battle-lands and shock-lands for shadow-lands so you can use these to. Shadow-lands ask for the card subtype, not its name.
I know it's a huge shot in the dark but i hope they print the enemies versions in Hour of Devastation.
BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
To be fair, if these did just always come in untapped they would still be different enough from ABUR duels that it would satisfy there requirement of "no functional reprints on reserved list cards". They never said they couldn't print strictly better versions of reserved cards.
They want to keep the lands simple, making them have some "enters tapped unless you cycled" just seems unnecessary and rarely a factor. Just give them time and I am sure you will be surprised with how good they are. These are ridiculously powerful even if they do always come in untapped.
Also, wizards claims to not test cards for modern but these definitely seem like a nudge for control in modern. These entering tapped makes them unplayable in traditional aggro decks, but they help control dig for a turn 7 answer or wincon pretty well. The fact that these always enter tapped actually makes them better for control than any other strategy, which is something everyone seems to agree we have needed from cards recently.
There are no Modern-legal cycling lands at the moment. The cycling lands were last printed in Onslaught.
I agree. I could've sworn that "power level" of certain cards was a factor of some cards on the reserved list, and that was what made the ABUR duals unique, other than simply a collectors item. Also, didn't the Spirit of the reserved list only care about hard-to-find foil reprints, such as why the FTV and judge foils of reserve list cards are no longer in print?
EDH DECKS
Currently under construction
MAGECRAFT STORM
-Veyran, Voice of Duality-
Protection from Degeneracy
Do not pray for an easy life. Pray for the strength to endure a difficult one.
Oh I'm on the same boat man.
The difference is I'm getting one of each of the hopefully 10
Because it's a budget shock land cycle and will always budget because there's no dodging the enter tapped thing. Unless you have amulet of vigor on the field.
Because they should never... NEVER... be better than Duals.
In his Second 100 days - Yawgmoth's Bargain is unrestricted in Vintage.
What is going to happen in the Next 100 days!!!
Spirits
The reserve list has nothing to do with it. Fetchable duals that can come into play untapped have to walk a fine line. You don't want to make it too easy, or your formats devolve into "play everything". You don't want to make it too hard, or nobody will bother. Shocks are pretty much where it's at.
THS-block Temples had no way of coming into play untapped, but they were pretty good in Standard. Scry was their thing. Cycling is the thing that these do. The typing gives them a shot at Modern play. If you let them come into play untapped, you have to make the cost greater than paying 2 life, otherwise these would be WAY better than Shocklands. You have to make the condition harder than controlling two basics, or these would be WAYYYYY better than BFZ lands.
Never-played-outside-Standard lands.
Seriously, these look like they needed to fill the rare lands quota and just upgraded an EtbT uncommon dual with cycling by giving them basic land types.
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
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And we have amulet of vigor for a loop hole.
Bicycle lands is totally perfect.
I will go and use that.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
Well, certainly not in Standard. I don't know that there's anything inherently wrong with slightly better duals in a Commander set, for example. It'd shake up Legacy and Vintage, sure. I guess you would need a serious print run.
none
Modern
UBG B/U/G control
BBB MBC
WUR Control
WWW Prison
RRR Goblins
Legacy
BBB Pox
UBG B/U/G Control
UWU StoneBlade
UW Miracle Control
That fact has nothing to do with the reserve list, which allows strictly better cards. Why you would actually want strictly better ABUR duals is beyond me. It sounds cool, but would be bad gameplay.
I think the issue with coming into play untapped has little to do with the reserve list. It has more to do with design space. If you design dual lands that can come in untapped with basic land types and cycle, why on earth would you ever play another dual land? How would you ever design future lands that could possibly compete with that? The power creep on a card like that would be dangerous. KnickM hit it right - the format would devolve into 4 color goodstuff like what we just saw with Dragons rotating out last year.