Blurry, but readable. Found on Mythicspoiler, apparently from leaflet scan. Starting loyalty not stated.
Liliana, Death Wielder 5BB
[+2]: Put a -1/-1 counter on up to one target creature.
[-3]: Destroy target creature with a -1/-1 counter on it.
[-10]: Return all creature cards from your graveyard to the battlefield.
(?)
Gideon, Martial Paragon 4W
[+2]: Untap creatures you control. They get +1/+1 until end of turn.
[0]: Until end of turn, Gideon, Martial Paragon becomes a 5/5 human Soldier with indestructible that's still a planeswalker. Prevent all damage that would be dealt to him this turn.
[-10]: Creatures you control get +2/+2 until end of turn. Tap all creatures your opponents control.
Note that these are the intro pack PWs, as the title isn't exactly clear about it. These aren't supposed to be constructed playable, but enjoyable for newbies and whatnot. The fact these aren't very good is expected.
Note that these are the intro pack PWs, as the title isn't exactly clear about it. These aren't supposed to be constructed playable, but enjoyable for newbies and whatnot. The fact these aren't very good is expected.
Made it more clear and added the transcript.
I wonder whether we will see wither back. Gideon becomes indestructible AND all damage to him is prevented. Does not make sense, IMO, without something like wither. The -1/-1 counters are a theme definitely.
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100% Vorthos Spike and Storyline Expert
Former Fact Prospector of the Greek Alliance.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
Note that these are the intro pack PWs, as the title isn't exactly clear about it. These aren't supposed to be constructed playable, but enjoyable for newbies and whatnot. The fact these aren't very good is expected.
Made it more clear and added the transcript.
I wonder whether we will see wither back. Gideon becomes indestructible AND all damage to him is prevented. Does not make sense, IMO, without something like wither. The -1/-1 counters are a theme definitely.
I believe every Gideon has had the "prevent all damage" clause. Gideon Jura lacks Indestructible tho
That said i wanna see Wither... And hybrid... And Shadowmoor again :'(
I wonder whether we will see wither back. Gideon becomes indestructible AND all damage to him is prevented. Does not make sense, IMO, without something like wither. The -1/-1 counters are a theme definitely.
Every Gideon after the first one is both Indestructible and prevents damage as a creature. It's simpler that way, because otherwise he would still die to combat damage (wither or no wither, because of Loyalty counters). It's really nothing new here.
This Gideon seems especially bad, since the plus ability is nearly useless, as far as I can tell.
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"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
I wonder whether we will see wither back. Gideon becomes indestructible AND all damage to him is prevented. Does not make sense, IMO, without something like wither. The -1/-1 counters are a theme definitely.
Every Gideon after the first one is both Indestructible and prevents damage as a creature. It's simpler that way, because otherwise he would still die to combat damage (wither or no wither, because of Loyalty counters). It's really nothing new here.
Easy mistake to make. After all you forgot the "It's still a planeswalker." clause in the text version in the OP that is responsible for this interaction.
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
I wonder whether we will see wither back. Gideon becomes indestructible AND all damage to him is prevented. Does not make sense, IMO, without something like wither. The -1/-1 counters are a theme definitely.
Every Gideon after the first one is both Indestructible and prevents damage as a creature. It's simpler that way, because otherwise he would still die to combat damage (wither or no wither, because of Loyalty counters). It's really nothing new here.
This Gideon seems especially bad, since the plus ability is nearly useless, as far as I can tell.
'untap all creatures' is not weak in the least in combo situations. It may not work that well for combat, but Gideon + Cat + a creature that taps to blink creates a stable loop.
Both of these are alright, Gideon is the better of the two. Even if these are from the PW decks you'd think Lilian's first ability would put two -1/-1 counters on a creature sicne she comes down so late, although I guess the main purpose is to destroy it a turn later.
I could see Gideon played in some sort of midrange shell if we have enough good creatures, while Liliana is probably only relegated to Commander.
Both of these are alright, Gideon is the better of the two. Even if these are from the PW decks you'd think Lilian's first ability would put two -1/-1 counters on a creature sicne she comes down so late, although I guess the main purpose is to destroy it a turn later.
I could see Gideon played in some sort of midrange shell if we have enough good creatures, while Liliana is probably only relegated to Commander.
While I would never see Liliana as 'good', when compared to the 'standard cost' for recurring -1/-1 counters (Gnarled Effigy), she costs 1 less (though all at once) for the first counter, and is free thereafter. Still weak, but I'm not sure it's at the WTF level.
Oh good it has been so long since Gideon and Liliana got cards obviously they both need another two each.
Don't worry, they're each going to get a second new card in the main set, too. And Nissa will likely be getting her fifth card in the last two years. You know, just in case we had a shortage of cards for them.
Hmm, it'll be interesting to see what the main Gideon does. The PW Deck Gideon has one good thing going for him (if you consider it good). He completely hoses the Authority/Thalia lockdown on the Kitty combo. I still wouldn't really consider him playable just because of that; but it is another plus for him I guess.
I find it interesting that people see Gideon's ability as 'bad'.
I think this is a case of 'too much of a good thing'. If Gideon's + ability was simply 'untap all of your creatures', I think that people would see that it is a very defensible and quite good ability in the abstract. (It may not be worth 5 mana, but that's a different discussion.) But because he also gives your creatures +1/+1, 'untap all of your creatures' is now not even good.
I hate how dysfunctional Gideon's +2 ability is. It bombos with itself. The card is unintuitive and horrible.
Liliana is squarely in "bad joke" level of overcosting, but that's the lesser flaw, here.
I mean, sorcery speed untap and pump is bad on the face of it (I certainly wish it were +1/+1 and vigilance), but depending on what exert ends up being, could be thematic.
As for Lili: Planeswalker deck face cards gonna planeswalker deck face card.
Note that these are the intro pack PWs, as the title isn't exactly clear about it. These aren't supposed to be constructed playable, but enjoyable for newbies and whatnot. The fact these aren't very good is expected.
I can't think of any newbie that could enjoy a 7 CMC walker that upticks for a single -1/-1 counter. Liliana better enter the battlefield with enough loyalty to ult right away. One thing is designing the decks to be fun but uncompetitive so spikes don't snag them up and another completely different thing is ripping off people who know no better than to stay away from this hot garbage.
Gideon's powerlevel is ok, though, not that bad. Ideally all PWs should be around the power level of Tezz and Ajani from the previous ones. I'm an enfranchised player yet I bought both decks for the planeswalkers and they're botth pretty fun, especially Tezz.
Note that these are the intro pack PWs, as the title isn't exactly clear about it. These aren't supposed to be constructed playable, but enjoyable for newbies and whatnot. The fact these aren't very good is expected.
I can't think of any newbie that could enjoy a 7 CMC walker that upticks for a single -1/-1 counter. Liliana better enter the battlefield with enough loyalty to ult right away. One thing is designing the decks to be fun but uncompetitive so spikes don't snag them up and another completely different thing is ripping off people who know no better than to stay away from this hot garbage.
Gideon's powerlevel is ok, though, not that bad. Ideally all PWs should be around the power level of Tezz and Ajani from the previous ones. I'm an enfranchised player yet I bought both decks for the planeswalkers and they're botth pretty fun, especially Tezz.
Agreed, but R&D is still tuning the power level on these cards. Amonkhet is only the third pair of planeswalker decks. I'm sure within a couple blocks they'll have it down.
Liliana is good.. but costs too much. A cc of 6 feels like a good starting point, w/ 7 or more only for the real splashy PW's (and this Lily doesn't feel like she is in that category).
As far as Gideon is concerned, I would hope for a version that did not become a creature. Feels like it is being pushed too much as a second ability.
Liliana, Death Wielder 5BB
[+2]: Put a -1/-1 counter on up to one target creature.
[-3]: Destroy target creature with a -1/-1 counter on it.
[-10]: Return all creature cards from your graveyard to the battlefield.
(?)
Gideon, Martial Paragon 4W
[+2]: Untap creatures you control. They get +1/+1 until end of turn.
[0]: Until end of turn, Gideon, Martial Paragon becomes a 5/5 human Soldier with indestructible that's still a planeswalker. Prevent all damage that would be dealt to him this turn.
[-10]: Creatures you control get +2/+2 until end of turn. Tap all creatures your opponents control.
(?)
EDIT:
Because I see some people are still confused: THESE ARE THE PLANESWALKER DECK CARDS - i.e. like Chandra, Pyrogenius, Nissa, Nature's Artisan, Ajani, Valiant Protector and Tezzeret, Master of Metal. THERE WILL PROBABLY BE "NORMAL", i.e. stronger, VERSIONS IN THE SET.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
Made it more clear and added the transcript.
I wonder whether we will see wither back. Gideon becomes indestructible AND all damage to him is prevented. Does not make sense, IMO, without something like wither. The -1/-1 counters are a theme definitely.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
I believe every Gideon has had the "prevent all damage" clause. Gideon Jura lacks Indestructible tho
That said i wanna see Wither... And hybrid... And Shadowmoor again :'(
Every Gideon after the first one is both Indestructible and prevents damage as a creature. It's simpler that way, because otherwise he would still die to combat damage (wither or no wither, because of Loyalty counters). It's really nothing new here.
This Gideon seems especially bad, since the plus ability is nearly useless, as far as I can tell.
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
You are right, thanks.
Mythicspoiler, who apparently got it from reddit (per the original image URLs).
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
Easy mistake to make. After all you forgot the "It's still a planeswalker." clause in the text version in the OP that is responsible for this interaction.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
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'untap all creatures' is not weak in the least in combo situations. It may not work that well for combat, but Gideon + Cat + a creature that taps to blink creates a stable loop.
I could see Gideon played in some sort of midrange shell if we have enough good creatures, while Liliana is probably only relegated to Commander.
While I would never see Liliana as 'good', when compared to the 'standard cost' for recurring -1/-1 counters (Gnarled Effigy), she costs 1 less (though all at once) for the first counter, and is free thereafter. Still weak, but I'm not sure it's at the WTF level.
Don't worry, they're each going to get a second new card in the main set, too. And Nissa will likely be getting her fifth card in the last two years. You know, just in case we had a shortage of cards for them.
Liliana is squarely in "bad joke" level of overcosting, but that's the lesser flaw, here.
I think this is a case of 'too much of a good thing'. If Gideon's + ability was simply 'untap all of your creatures', I think that people would see that it is a very defensible and quite good ability in the abstract. (It may not be worth 5 mana, but that's a different discussion.) But because he also gives your creatures +1/+1, 'untap all of your creatures' is now not even good.
I mean, sorcery speed untap and pump is bad on the face of it (I certainly wish it were +1/+1 and vigilance), but depending on what exert ends up being, could be thematic.
As for Lili: Planeswalker deck face cards gonna planeswalker deck face card.
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
I can't think of any newbie that could enjoy a 7 CMC walker that upticks for a single -1/-1 counter. Liliana better enter the battlefield with enough loyalty to ult right away. One thing is designing the decks to be fun but uncompetitive so spikes don't snag them up and another completely different thing is ripping off people who know no better than to stay away from this hot garbage.
Gideon's powerlevel is ok, though, not that bad. Ideally all PWs should be around the power level of Tezz and Ajani from the previous ones. I'm an enfranchised player yet I bought both decks for the planeswalkers and they're botth pretty fun, especially Tezz.
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Agreed, but R&D is still tuning the power level on these cards. Amonkhet is only the third pair of planeswalker decks. I'm sure within a couple blocks they'll have it down.
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
Of course. These are the Planeswalker Deck cards. There will be a "normal" Liliana and Gideon as well in Amonkhet.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
As far as Gideon is concerned, I would hope for a version that did not become a creature. Feels like it is being pushed too much as a second ability.
Mm. Ramp with your mana dorks, untap them, and swing with them (or just ramp again)? Looks like fun.
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝