This is what happens when WotC hires incredibly pedestrian players to their design teams, which is what they have done over the past few years.
I think it's probably DEVELOPMENT team you meant here. I hope so, anyway. Design is cranking out really cool stuff lately imo. I have very few complaints there.
It's not the design that has caused so many problems, it's the relative lack of playtesting and lack of imagination w/r/t how cards can be broken in different ways. That's Development's job, not Design's.
DESIGN's part of the problem is too few answers to deal with marquee threats in formats. Pretty sure that is gonna change BIG TIME soon. They've acknowledged as much. I suspect they might overshoot (like they always seem to) and we'll have a year or two of oppressive control decks. Haha. It'll be nice for a change..
Wow really? The players like the modern meta right now? A meta with something like 60-70% aggro decks? With 5% control decks and another 5% combo decks and the rest midrange decks?
Since the Twin ban that the modern meta is terrible. First with the eldrazi winter, next with this aggro meta that still isn't over. Hmmm... I guess i'll stay away from magic for a while more.
DESIGN's part of the problem is too few answers to deal with marquee threats in formats. Pretty sure that is gonna change BIG TIME soon. They've acknowledged as much. I suspect they might overshoot (like they always seem to) and we'll have a year or two of oppressive control decks. Haha. It'll be nice for a change..
Quoting to point out that "soon" is not 2017. Development cycles are way out into the future. Any change of course won't show up until 2018 unless they are wanting to go back and rethink something.
You know what would go a long way into fixing the issues without bans? You won't like my answers......
heh...
The problem I've seen with Magic Standard over the years is the same... No answers or lack of answers. Mana bases are too good? Why not Blood Moon or something close to it? Ghost Quarter and Tec Edge is fine... Efficient land destruction.... Reprint Wasteland, it'd be an instant success.
Oh? no grave hate? Well, all these decks can prosper. Rest in Peace, Relic, and Crypt are wonderful answers.
ETB B Gone with Torpor Orb.
How bout better board wipes? Better hand disruption. Reprints of small pox? It's easy to make sets with the sole function of disrupting each other.
This is why I play EDH, Modern, Legacy, and Vintage. There's diversity and no deck stays on top for long and the formats have a way to fix themselves without a need for stupid bans like Splinter Twin. There's a reason why I stopped playing Standard religiously about two years ago, lack of diversity. What used to be 8-10 decks has turned into 3-4 decks and if you weren't playing them you were losing.
Stop catering to the babies who don't want cards that break their toys and print the cards that answer the problems that Standard is having. I guarantee it will fix the issues.
The problem with cards like Blood Moon, Rest in Peace, etc, is that they are too good against some decks. Blood Moon can win games on resolution. Rest in Peace forces players to splash colors for enchantment hate. They are very efficient, and format warping. They do not make standard more fun.
I would be in favour of more answers in Standard. Pithing Needle, Relic of Progenitus, Ghost Quarter, and Torpor Orb are good at slowing down strategies without beating them entirely. They are available to all decks. I wish these cards would be reprinted regularly. Or similar hate cards that slow down strategies without killing them. I think Stony Silence would be too good in current standard, but Pithing Needle would be great.
As I said, something close to it. Thalia almost succeeds, but it has a host of problems on its own simply by the fact she's a creature. Authority of the Consuls is Blind Obedience lite.
Phyrexian Revoker deals with as many things as Needle without needing to print Stony Silence but Stony in and of itself is the real answer with these other two.
As for Blood Moon? It kills greedy manabases for a time. But even when I play GR Tron, I barrel through a blood moon by playing a land every turn until I get to the point where I win anyway if they don't have a good followup to the Moon. It does not win games on the spot and I've been playing even before Blood Moon was first printed in the Dark. And I think that's the problem with today's magic players, they don't have the experience, nor do they have the ideas what to do besides being butthurt over efficient answers. Personally, I'd jump at the chance to play hatebears in standard again, but the format is so narrow...
If Blood Moon is too powerful, why not print a Blue Moon where all nonbasics become wastes and has a cumulative upkeep of something like each opponent draws a card...
During Khans Standard we had over 10 different deck archetypes. Standard was actually fairly healthy and was repairing itself over time. Heck, we had more diversity in Eldritch Moon Standard. It wasn't until Kaladesh we saw it turn into another Mirrodin block where cards are inherently broken. Vehicles are broken and a bad concept altogether. Aetherworks Marvel is busted as all can be. Energy is an odd mechanic that's neat, but in standard it's borderline. Outside of Standard it doesn't exist.
Walking Ballista vs Stony Silence. I played a modern game and I had simply made big Ballistas and went for beatdown and won because my creatures were bigger and better than theirs. These answers do nothing in and of themselves, they just buy time and space to breathe. Oddly enough, there were only half a dozen times when I dropped from the Magic scene for a time. Type 2 during Necro Summer and Enduring Winter. Type 2 during Urza block. Type 2 during Prophecy era. Type everything during Mirrodin. Type 2 and Extended during the New Phyrexia set. Standard again after Khans rotated out.
You know what would go a long way into fixing the issues without bans? You won't like my answers......
heh...
The problem I've seen with Magic Standard over the years is the same... No answers or lack of answers. Mana bases are too good? Why not Blood Moon or something close to it? Ghost Quarter and Tec Edge is fine... Efficient land destruction.... Reprint Wasteland, it'd be an instant success.
Oh? no grave hate? Well, all these decks can prosper. Rest in Peace, Relic, and Crypt are wonderful answers.
ETB B Gone with Torpor Orb.
How bout better board wipes? Better hand disruption. Reprints of small pox? It's easy to make sets with the sole function of disrupting each other.
This is why I play EDH, Modern, Legacy, and Vintage. There's diversity and no deck stays on top for long and the formats have a way to fix themselves without a need for stupid bans like Splinter Twin. There's a reason why I stopped playing Standard religiously about two years ago, lack of diversity. What used to be 8-10 decks has turned into 3-4 decks and if you weren't playing them you were losing.
Stop catering to the babies who don't want cards that break their toys and print the cards that answer the problems that Standard is having. I guarantee it will fix the issues.
The problem with cards like Blood Moon, Rest in Peace, etc, is that they are too good against some decks. Blood Moon can win games on resolution. Rest in Peace forces players to splash colors for enchantment hate. They are very efficient, and format warping. They do not make standard more fun.
I would be in favour of more answers in Standard. Pithing Needle, Relic of Progenitus, Ghost Quarter, and Torpor Orb are good at slowing down strategies without beating them entirely. They are available to all decks. I wish these cards would be reprinted regularly. Or similar hate cards that slow down strategies without killing them. I think Stony Silence would be too good in current standard, but Pithing Needle would be great.
Fortunately the development team appears to be aware of the issue and have hinted that Fatal Push and Disallow are not outliers; we'll start seeing the pendulum push back to efficient removal in standard. I think that hyper-efficient hate like Blood Moon is less likely, which is a shame in that it allows 4+color good stuff to run rampant, but makes sense in that they still want people to be able to play. I am hopeful that means we'll see a better 4-mana sweeper than Yahenni's Expertise and maybe a return to something like Hero's Downfall in Amonkhet, as an instant answer to planeswalkers. Torpor Orb reprint would also be a pretty good stop to shenanigans, as would a Pithing Needle reprint, and those are both cards that they would seem more open to having in standard.
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Commander - Currently Playing: RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G) RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B) WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
What I get from their announcement is: we are aware standard is in bad shape and asking for bans but sorry, we just can't afford banning again right now, so let's hope there's still room for a couple of tier 1.5 decks to emerge (like Temur Tower) until Amonkhet arrives.
They literally should have just unbanned reflector mage, and that would have been perfect. He wouldn't be too good at all right now, and might let a new/old deck be decent again. Poor form wotc. You should have considered that more...
unbanning just reflector mage would be a horrible idea at this time. 4 color saheeli would just play that card and would work fantastic with guardian and saheeli giving it a much better matchup against mardu vehicles.
DESIGN's part of the problem is too few answers to deal with marquee threats in formats. Pretty sure that is gonna change BIG TIME soon. They've acknowledged as much. I suspect they might overshoot (like they always seem to) and we'll have a year or two of oppressive control decks. Haha. It'll be nice for a change..
Quoting to point out that "soon" is not 2017. Development cycles are way out into the future. Any change of course won't show up until 2018 unless they are wanting to go back and rethink something.
Yeah, I thought about that as I was posting..you're not wrong there. Hope people are willing to wait for it!
I have a feeling that Wizards is avoid discouraging players from buying cards, consider banning cards means players might accumulate certain cards only to find them useless, which is a financial issue.
They should have at least token unbanned Reflector Mage. Even if it didn't do anything to stop the top three decks, giving people a little hope that the bans are soft in standard compared to modern would likely have helped.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I feel modern is fine right now and it hasn't been long enough to actually tell if the ban list needs to be changed
Standard is in a weird spot right now, at least it seems like to someone who gacve up on standard maybe a month ago. Basically, there are 3 decks that make it a rock-paper scissors format right now. Vehicles, Bgx variants and Copy Cat decks. I guess Temur Tower has been making a bit of an impact but there aren't too many other decks being played right now. I'm not a fan of banning stuff so close to each other anyways
I feel modern is fine, no decks really breaking anything
Well, it's not like they can make things any worse than they already are. We're basically in full Caw Blade vs Valakut mode in standard right now with everyone else trying to fight for scraps.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Standard's problems aren't something that can be solved with bans. The threat to answer pendulum has swung too far in the threats favor, and we're suffering the consequences. At least they've acknowledged the problem, the only thing we really CAN do is wait for it to correct. We're kind of stuck until that happens. I mean, you can't just ban all the broken problematic cards, the list is too long. I mean, what do you ban out of mardu to make it tolerable? All their threats are equally terrifying. Same for G/B.
I actually like the current modern meta game. I wouldn't mind seeing the return of bloodbraid and jace, but I don't hate modern at the moment.
Standard being solved doesn't make it unhealthy. Think about Theros standard, we had 3 decks to play, 2 of which were tier 1.
Actually, Theros had much more than 3 decks.
Mono Green Devotion
Mono Black Devotion
GB Constellations
GW Hexproof
RW Aggro
UW Control
Esper Control
Mono White
RDW
Rally
Dark Jeskai
And those name a few off the top of the list.
Theros/Khans had Rug, Bug, and several others.
Looking back just 2 years we had 10-14 deck archetypes and all were valid, including Jeskai Prowess. We had more diversity during Eldritch Moon. Kaladesh Standard is Mirrodin lite where only 3 decks dominate everything. What makes it worse is that there's no useful hate to keep those three decks in check, where two years ago the checks were there. Return to Ravnica/Theros/Khans were all together more diverse and no one deck was a total dominator.
I just thought of something. The B&R Announcement went out (probably automatically) around 8AM Pacific time. Which is before the start of business at Wizards. So the announcement was made basically before they could really process the results of the two tourneys over the weekend. I wonder if they would have changed their tune had they had time to fully realize those results? Of course, the only answer now would be an emergency ban; but with the "All is Fine" announcement they just made, an emergency ban would be even worse.
I just thought of something. The B&R Announcement went out (probably automatically) around 8AM Pacific time. Which is before the start of business at Wizards. So the announcement was made basically before they could really process the results of the two tourneys over the weekend. I wonder if they would have changed their tune had they had time to fully realize those results? Of course, the only answer now would be an emergency ban; but with the "All is Fine" announcement they just made, an emergency ban would be even worse.
did you read the article? I think the first 1 or 2 sentences says "we meet earlier this month to discuss".
Considering that they thought that GP Utrecht results were relevant and not the two GPs of the previous day (where it was just two archetypes facing each other), it is pretty clear that the explanation text was written before these GPs. If they had 1-2 more weeks of data it is possible that they would ban some stuff.
I don't think it's a coincidence that standard started going downhill the moment they decided that one-drop mana creatures made the format "too fast". Hopefully things have gotten bad enough that they are forced to realize their mistakes and they can start to undo all the "environment-crafting" they've done.
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If the Vikings were around today, they would probably be amazed at how much glow-in-the-dark stuff we have, and how we take it for granted.
I think it's probably DEVELOPMENT team you meant here. I hope so, anyway. Design is cranking out really cool stuff lately imo. I have very few complaints there.
It's not the design that has caused so many problems, it's the relative lack of playtesting and lack of imagination w/r/t how cards can be broken in different ways. That's Development's job, not Design's.
DESIGN's part of the problem is too few answers to deal with marquee threats in formats. Pretty sure that is gonna change BIG TIME soon. They've acknowledged as much. I suspect they might overshoot (like they always seem to) and we'll have a year or two of oppressive control decks. Haha. It'll be nice for a change..
Fully-powered 600-Card "Dream Cube" https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/dreamcube
450-Card "Artificer's Cube" https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/artificer
Cubing in Indianapolis...send me a PM!!
Since the Twin ban that the modern meta is terrible. First with the eldrazi winter, next with this aggro meta that still isn't over. Hmmm... I guess i'll stay away from magic for a while more.
UR TwinLegacy
UWR Miracles> No Temur Tower in the GPs, and in its original appearance no top x
Bruh
Modern - Cheeri0s (building), Belcher (building), Lantern (building), UW Control (building)
RIP Magic Duels. Wizards will regret what they did to you.
Quoting to point out that "soon" is not 2017. Development cycles are way out into the future. Any change of course won't show up until 2018 unless they are wanting to go back and rethink something.
As I said, something close to it. Thalia almost succeeds, but it has a host of problems on its own simply by the fact she's a creature. Authority of the Consuls is Blind Obedience lite.
In my opinion bans like Emrakul, Reflector Mage, and Copter were not needed if there were efficient counters to these strategies. Torpor Orb, Hushwing Gryff, Vryn Wingmare, Damping Matrix, Suppression Field, and others are excellent answers.
Phyrexian Revoker deals with as many things as Needle without needing to print Stony Silence but Stony in and of itself is the real answer with these other two.
As for Blood Moon? It kills greedy manabases for a time. But even when I play GR Tron, I barrel through a blood moon by playing a land every turn until I get to the point where I win anyway if they don't have a good followup to the Moon. It does not win games on the spot and I've been playing even before Blood Moon was first printed in the Dark. And I think that's the problem with today's magic players, they don't have the experience, nor do they have the ideas what to do besides being butthurt over efficient answers. Personally, I'd jump at the chance to play hatebears in standard again, but the format is so narrow...
If Blood Moon is too powerful, why not print a Blue Moon where all nonbasics become wastes and has a cumulative upkeep of something like each opponent draws a card...
During Khans Standard we had over 10 different deck archetypes. Standard was actually fairly healthy and was repairing itself over time. Heck, we had more diversity in Eldritch Moon Standard. It wasn't until Kaladesh we saw it turn into another Mirrodin block where cards are inherently broken. Vehicles are broken and a bad concept altogether. Aetherworks Marvel is busted as all can be. Energy is an odd mechanic that's neat, but in standard it's borderline. Outside of Standard it doesn't exist.
Walking Ballista vs Stony Silence. I played a modern game and I had simply made big Ballistas and went for beatdown and won because my creatures were bigger and better than theirs. These answers do nothing in and of themselves, they just buy time and space to breathe. Oddly enough, there were only half a dozen times when I dropped from the Magic scene for a time. Type 2 during Necro Summer and Enduring Winter. Type 2 during Urza block. Type 2 during Prophecy era. Type everything during Mirrodin. Type 2 and Extended during the New Phyrexia set. Standard again after Khans rotated out.
Fortunately the development team appears to be aware of the issue and have hinted that Fatal Push and Disallow are not outliers; we'll start seeing the pendulum push back to efficient removal in standard. I think that hyper-efficient hate like Blood Moon is less likely, which is a shame in that it allows 4+color good stuff to run rampant, but makes sense in that they still want people to be able to play. I am hopeful that means we'll see a better 4-mana sweeper than Yahenni's Expertise and maybe a return to something like Hero's Downfall in Amonkhet, as an instant answer to planeswalkers. Torpor Orb reprint would also be a pretty good stop to shenanigans, as would a Pithing Needle reprint, and those are both cards that they would seem more open to having in standard.
RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR
WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG
GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG
GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G)
RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW
UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B)
WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
unbanning just reflector mage would be a horrible idea at this time. 4 color saheeli would just play that card and would work fantastic with guardian and saheeli giving it a much better matchup against mardu vehicles.
Yeah, I thought about that as I was posting..you're not wrong there. Hope people are willing to wait for it!
Fully-powered 600-Card "Dream Cube" https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/dreamcube
450-Card "Artificer's Cube" https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/artificer
Cubing in Indianapolis...send me a PM!!
That would have been great !
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
I for one would love to play 8 Sol Rings and Eldrazi
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Standard is in a weird spot right now, at least it seems like to someone who gacve up on standard maybe a month ago. Basically, there are 3 decks that make it a rock-paper scissors format right now. Vehicles, Bgx variants and Copy Cat decks. I guess Temur Tower has been making a bit of an impact but there aren't too many other decks being played right now. I'm not a fan of banning stuff so close to each other anyways
I feel modern is fine, no decks really breaking anything
Well, it's not like they can make things any worse than they already are. We're basically in full Caw Blade vs Valakut mode in standard right now with everyone else trying to fight for scraps.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I actually like the current modern meta game. I wouldn't mind seeing the return of bloodbraid and jace, but I don't hate modern at the moment.
Actually, Theros had much more than 3 decks.
Mono Green Devotion
Mono Black Devotion
GB Constellations
GW Hexproof
RW Aggro
UW Control
Esper Control
Mono White
RDW
Rally
Dark Jeskai
And those name a few off the top of the list.
Theros/Khans had Rug, Bug, and several others.
Looking back just 2 years we had 10-14 deck archetypes and all were valid, including Jeskai Prowess. We had more diversity during Eldritch Moon. Kaladesh Standard is Mirrodin lite where only 3 decks dominate everything. What makes it worse is that there's no useful hate to keep those three decks in check, where two years ago the checks were there. Return to Ravnica/Theros/Khans were all together more diverse and no one deck was a total dominator.
did you read the article? I think the first 1 or 2 sentences says "we meet earlier this month to discuss".
That's two in a row that paradox engine dodged the ban bullet in edh.