R&D met earlier this month to review several formats—notably Standard and Vintage—and discuss competitive play balance. While several issues were raised and discussed, it was concluded that the best move for all formats was to leave things as they are while continuing to monitor and gather data over the coming weeks and months.
For Standard, there has emerged a Big Three—Mardu Vehicles, Black-Green Constrictor, and various Felidar Guardian/Saheeli Rai decks. While having three top-tier decks isn't unusual, we were concerned that they could be so strong as to crowd out all other decks. In particular, we looked closely at the effect Felidar Guardian has on a format when it can be used in a game-ending combo. However, at Grand Prix Utrecht we began to see some movement in the format—particularly the rise of Temur Dynavolt Tower as a potential addition to that upper echelon. With that kind of movement in the format, we thought it best to gather more data—including more Grand Prix and the inclusion of Amonkhet at the Pro Tour—while watching the format continue to shift before making any changes.
In Modern, we've just come off two very exciting Grand Prix in Vancouver and Brisbane that saw Death's Shadow rise to the top, but a variety of decks put up strong results. While Modern certainly has its share of powerful cards, the format is in a spot right now that players seem to greatly enjoy.
For Vintage, data is often difficult to gather because the sample size is so small. However, we have a large data set coming with the European Eternal Weekend Vintage Championship at the beginning of April. We'll be watching that tournament closely. For now, we are watching the results, and continuing to listen to feedback from the community.
As such, there are no changes to any formats at this time.
Interesting that they noted the "rise" of Temur Dynavolt Tower at Grand Prix Utrecht when none of those decks cracked the Top 8.
Too bad they used up their banning goodwill a few months ago because I would have loved to see Felidar Guardian banned. It locks out a ton of potential combo decks that were made possible by the great cards in Aether Revolt...but nobody plays them because the Saheeli combo is better most of the time.
This is rather disappointing... Standard is very bad right now and will continue to be for many weeks. A quick look at this weekend GP top 8s really shows the issue. Nothing but Mardu vs Copycat and mirror matches. The latest Cardboard crack comic nails it.
I understand that banning stuff would make many people unhappy but come on... Standard is completely solved and boring at the moment.
Worst Standard Ever(TM) has gained 1.5 extra month. I can't wait for Amonkhet, and I truly fear for its impact in this format. This is disgustingly lame.
Worst Standard Ever(TM) has gained 1.5 extra month. I can't wait for Amonkhet, and I truly fear for its impact in this format. This is disgustingly lame.
Don't worry, Temur Tower is coming to the rescue! That may be the worst excuse I have ever heard for anything anyone has ever done, ever.
Super shocked. This feels like it was written right after GP Van, there is no way they look and see Standard as healthy after the last couple weekends.
Color me Shocked; I thought banning the cat was a sure thing since...
1) It strangles diversity out of the format - there are tons of cool things in standard like Metalwork Colossus, Tezzeret the Schemer in a Grixis Improvise shell, Panharmonicon shenanigans, Eldrazi, Vampires...and all of those things are just worse than copycat as far as endgame goes, or can't cut it against Mardu's hyper-efficient curve.
2) The deck is effortlessly 4-color, meaning it can continue to iterate and adapt and jam whatever good stuff it wants, whereas other archetypes in the format are "solved" because they have to run specific cards for their more linear strategies.
3) The above raises the odds it can play whatever Goodstuff.dec stuff it wants from Amonkhet, while still having a combo kill for the end game.
4) They've admitted it's a mistake, so no additional hate is on the radar and all their testing of the metagame for the Future Future League is irrelevant - although we live in a world with great instant speed interaction and Authority of the Consuls so clearly hate isn't enough to dissuade people from running the combo.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Sufferer of EDHD
Commander - Currently Playing: RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G) RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B) WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
I don't play Standard but I sometimes watch it. I'm happy the Copy Cat combo remains. While perhaps fun to play, midrange attrition battles aren't the most entertaining on coverage. An instant-win combo ups the excitement considerably.
"For Vintage, data is often difficult to gather because the sample size is so small. However, we have a large data set coming with the European Eternal Weekend Vintage Championship at the beginning of April. We'll be watching that tournament closely. For now, we are watching the results, and continuing to listen to feedback from the community."
They banned Splinter Twin in Modern because it reduced the format's diversity, but they won't do it in Standard even though A. They already said it was a mistake and B. It's in a format with few good answers.
I cannot imagine having to play against the CCC for another year and a half before Kaladesh rotates. Hopefully, the decision was made a couple of weeks back (when GB was still tier 1) and the current results will be a wake-up call.
Nothing drives me more nuts than people thinking banning the top combo deck will make other combo decks better. They will all get wrecked by g/b and mardu vehicles. If they could win either of those matches we would have seen them already.
They literally should have just unbanned reflector mage, and that would have been perfect. He wouldn't be too good at all right now, and might let a new/old deck be decent again. Poor form wotc. You should have considered that more...
lol I can't believe no one in R&D caught the combo.
If you are going to develop a card that flickers any permanent you should probably make sure there is no way to copy it infinitely. Cat that bounces non planewalker perminants would be fine, instead the format is warped by a mistake.
Nothing drives me more nuts than people thinking banning the top combo deck will make other combo decks better. They will all get wrecked by g/b and mardu vehicles. If they could win either of those matches we would have seen them already.
There are a lot of combos in Standard right now. Some combos play no creatures, and will do very well against G/B and Vehicles. The problem is that these decks can't beat a faster combo deck.
My Paradox Engine deck has actually crushed BG decks. But I have to sideboard 8 cards against Copycat to stand a chance. I was hoping Felidar Guardian would get banned. Turn 4 win is too fast for Standard.
You know what would go a long way into fixing the issues without bans? You won't like my answers......
heh...
The problem I've seen with Magic Standard over the years is the same... No answers or lack of answers. Mana bases are too good? Why not Blood Moon or something close to it? Ghost Quarter and Tec Edge is fine... Efficient land destruction.... Reprint Wasteland, it'd be an instant success.
Oh? no grave hate? Well, all these decks can prosper. Rest in Peace, Relic, and Crypt are wonderful answers.
ETB B Gone with Torpor Orb.
How bout better board wipes? Better hand disruption. Reprints of small pox? It's easy to make sets with the sole function of disrupting each other.
This is why I play EDH, Modern, Legacy, and Vintage. There's diversity and no deck stays on top for long and the formats have a way to fix themselves without a need for stupid bans like Splinter Twin. There's a reason why I stopped playing Standard religiously about two years ago, lack of diversity. What used to be 8-10 decks has turned into 3-4 decks and if you weren't playing them you were losing.
Stop catering to the babies who don't want cards that break their toys and print the cards that answer the problems that Standard is having. I guarantee it will fix the issues.
I find it completely ridiculous that Mind Twist is still banned in Legacy but I guess it wouldn't see any play so the difference is basically academic.
You know what would go a long way into fixing the issues without bans? You won't like my answers......
heh...
The problem I've seen with Magic Standard over the years is the same... No answers or lack of answers. Mana bases are too good? Why not Blood Moon or something close to it? Ghost Quarter and Tec Edge is fine... Efficient land destruction.... Reprint Wasteland, it'd be an instant success.
Oh? no grave hate? Well, all these decks can prosper. Rest in Peace, Relic, and Crypt are wonderful answers.
ETB B Gone with Torpor Orb.
How bout better board wipes? Better hand disruption. Reprints of small pox? It's easy to make sets with the sole function of disrupting each other.
This is why I play EDH, Modern, Legacy, and Vintage. There's diversity and no deck stays on top for long and the formats have a way to fix themselves without a need for stupid bans like Splinter Twin. There's a reason why I stopped playing Standard religiously about two years ago, lack of diversity. What used to be 8-10 decks has turned into 3-4 decks and if you weren't playing them you were losing.
Stop catering to the babies who don't want cards that break their toys and print the cards that answer the problems that Standard is having. I guarantee it will fix the issues.
The problem with cards like Blood Moon, Rest in Peace, etc, is that they are too good against some decks. Blood Moon can win games on resolution. Rest in Peace forces players to splash colors for enchantment hate. They are very efficient, and format warping. They do not make standard more fun.
I would be in favour of more answers in Standard. Pithing Needle, Relic of Progenitus, Ghost Quarter, and Torpor Orb are good at slowing down strategies without beating them entirely. They are available to all decks. I wish these cards would be reprinted regularly. Or similar hate cards that slow down strategies without killing them. I think Stony Silence would be too good in current standard, but Pithing Needle would be great.
Too bad they used up their banning goodwill a few months ago because I would have loved to see Felidar Guardian banned. It locks out a ton of potential combo decks that were made possible by the great cards in Aether Revolt...but nobody plays them because the Saheeli combo is better most of the time.
I understand that banning stuff would make many people unhappy but come on... Standard is completely solved and boring at the moment.
Don't worry, Temur Tower is coming to the rescue! That may be the worst excuse I have ever heard for anything anyone has ever done, ever.
Spirits
1) It strangles diversity out of the format - there are tons of cool things in standard like Metalwork Colossus, Tezzeret the Schemer in a Grixis Improvise shell, Panharmonicon shenanigans, Eldrazi, Vampires...and all of those things are just worse than copycat as far as endgame goes, or can't cut it against Mardu's hyper-efficient curve.
2) The deck is effortlessly 4-color, meaning it can continue to iterate and adapt and jam whatever good stuff it wants, whereas other archetypes in the format are "solved" because they have to run specific cards for their more linear strategies.
3) The above raises the odds it can play whatever Goodstuff.dec stuff it wants from Amonkhet, while still having a combo kill for the end game.
4) They've admitted it's a mistake, so no additional hate is on the radar and all their testing of the metagame for the Future Future League is irrelevant - although we live in a world with great instant speed interaction and Authority of the Consuls so clearly hate isn't enough to dissuade people from running the combo.
RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR
WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG
GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG
GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G)
RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW
UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B)
WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
UR Blue-Red Control
Modern:
UBR Grixis Control
UWR Jeskai Control
Translation: Paradoxical Outcome better watch its back.
Fully-powered 600-Card "Dream Cube" https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/dreamcube
450-Card "Artificer's Cube" https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/artificer
Cubing in Indianapolis...send me a PM!!
I cannot imagine having to play against the CCC for another year and a half before Kaladesh rotates. Hopefully, the decision was made a couple of weeks back (when GB was still tier 1) and the current results will be a wake-up call.
WBC Eldrazi & Taxes CBW
UR Keep on Cantripin' (UR Phoenix) RU
WU Surprise! It's not UW Control! (UW Midrange) UW
BG The Rock, Straight BG
U Mono-Blue Fish U
RBW Mardu Pyromancer BWR
RG Rabble! Rabble! (GR Blood Moon Aggro) GR
Legacy
W Death & Taxes W
Is this format DRIVING people nuts? You bet lol
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
If you are going to develop a card that flickers any permanent you should probably make sure there is no way to copy it infinitely. Cat that bounces non planewalker perminants would be fine, instead the format is warped by a mistake.
This isn't anything new. Standard has been awful ever since Theros block.
This is what happens when WotC hires incredibly pedestrian players to their design teams, which is what they have done over the past few years.
There are a lot of combos in Standard right now. Some combos play no creatures, and will do very well against G/B and Vehicles. The problem is that these decks can't beat a faster combo deck.
My Paradox Engine deck has actually crushed BG decks. But I have to sideboard 8 cards against Copycat to stand a chance. I was hoping Felidar Guardian would get banned. Turn 4 win is too fast for Standard.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
heh...
The problem I've seen with Magic Standard over the years is the same... No answers or lack of answers. Mana bases are too good? Why not Blood Moon or something close to it? Ghost Quarter and Tec Edge is fine... Efficient land destruction.... Reprint Wasteland, it'd be an instant success.
Oh? no grave hate? Well, all these decks can prosper. Rest in Peace, Relic, and Crypt are wonderful answers.
ETB B Gone with Torpor Orb.
How bout better board wipes? Better hand disruption. Reprints of small pox? It's easy to make sets with the sole function of disrupting each other.
This is why I play EDH, Modern, Legacy, and Vintage. There's diversity and no deck stays on top for long and the formats have a way to fix themselves without a need for stupid bans like Splinter Twin. There's a reason why I stopped playing Standard religiously about two years ago, lack of diversity. What used to be 8-10 decks has turned into 3-4 decks and if you weren't playing them you were losing.
Stop catering to the babies who don't want cards that break their toys and print the cards that answer the problems that Standard is having. I guarantee it will fix the issues.
The problem with cards like Blood Moon, Rest in Peace, etc, is that they are too good against some decks. Blood Moon can win games on resolution. Rest in Peace forces players to splash colors for enchantment hate. They are very efficient, and format warping. They do not make standard more fun.
I would be in favour of more answers in Standard. Pithing Needle, Relic of Progenitus, Ghost Quarter, and Torpor Orb are good at slowing down strategies without beating them entirely. They are available to all decks. I wish these cards would be reprinted regularly. Or similar hate cards that slow down strategies without killing them. I think Stony Silence would be too good in current standard, but Pithing Needle would be great.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers