A seven-mana Lili? Ouch. Her other two abilities better knock my socks off to be worth that much. 'Cause that +2 would have trouble impressing me even on a five-mana 'walker.
A seven-mana Lili? Ouch. Her other two abilities better knock my socks off to be worth that much. 'Cause that +2 would have trouble impressing me even on a five-mana 'walker.
Mind you, these are the intro deck scaled down PWs. They've made one kinda playable one and three really bad ones thus far.
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Level 1 Judge
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
A seven-mana Lili? Ouch. Her other two abilities better knock my socks off to be worth that much. 'Cause that +2 would have trouble impressing me even on a five-mana 'walker.
Mind you, these are the intro deck scaled down PWs. They've made one kinda playable one and three really bad ones thus far.
I know, but still. Seven mana is a lot, and it means the game's gonna be almost over by the time she's out. A single -1/-1 counter probably isn't going to do much at that point. Even ignoring pure playability, that +2 just isn't likely to excite the Timmy neophytes that these decks are made for.
So... -1/-1 counters theme in Amonkhet or for Planeswalker decks only?
No way -1/-1 Counters are just for these decks. Winding Constrictor is crying.
No it's laughing hard. Constrictor doubles -1/-1 counters too
a) Constrictor doesn't double. it adds one more.
b) Constrictor only adds extras to your stuff. -1/-1 counters are typically wanted on your opponent's creatures.
Hm... Gideon's first ability is strange for a noob-friendly kind of deck. The pump means you want to use it before combat, but the untap means you want to use it after combat. They usually shy away from that sort of tension on intro-pack type of cards.
These are PW's of the intro decks they will be fairly unexciting almost guaranteed. Liliana's first ability really isn't terrible though. Night of Soul's Betrayal is 4cmc but is legendary and Course of Death's Hold saw standard play at 5cmc as well. Liliana cost 7cmc but is progressive and adds loyalty on top of that. Plus you will be able to tutor for her or pull her back from your graveyard as well. Regardless these are intro pack junk mythics what are you really looking for out of these cards?
Also, -1/-1 counters and +1/+1 counters can be in standard together. They don't put both into the same BLOCK because it increases complexity and creates confusing boards states for even veteran players in LIMITED. Wouldn't bet on persist, infect, or whither in Amonkhet. Persist, infect, and whither are problematic mechanics and warp draft environments around them. Doubly unlikely for infect because I strongly doubt Bolas would let's a plane of his creation get corrupted by phyrisis on purpose!
Either Liliana has another plus or a really awesome minus ability because 7 mana for that is awful even by intro walker standards. They try to make them at least decent and worth casting in the deck. Sure, they aren't constructed playable but 7 for a single minus one is running for worst walker card ever.
It's pretty obvious that Gideon has a 0 ability that turns him into a creature, replete with damage prevention and indestructible. Turning into a creature is a unifying feature of the Gideon planeswalker subtype. The only question is how big he'll be. We've had 4/4, 5/5, 6/6, and */*, but a variable P/T is unlikely for a planeswalker deck. I'm leaning towards 4/4 considering the power level involved, but Wizards could go bigger.
Honestly I laughed when I saw these two decks spoiled. I remembered when Wizards spoiled the Gideon and Lilly "lovers duel deck" a few years back during April Fools haha. Overall the that Gideon looks strong if that is his +1 ability. Might give Vehicles a new Gideon to abuse once Ally of Zendikar rotates out.
With Lili's ability to use -1/-1 counters now known, what design implications may it have?
Perhaps there's persist in the Amonkhet block. Resurrection fits a mummy/zombie theme, and giving creatures -1/-1 counters to prevent "resurrection" feels like a necromantic ability. Additionally, wither may be in play as well, as well as new mechanics that interact with -1/-1 counters.
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DECKS:
Commander:
Aurelia the Warleader - Combat Tricks and Swarm
Oloro, Ageless Ascetic - Lifegain/Lifedrain Pillowfort
Trostani, Selesnya's Voice - Token Assault
Meren of Clan Nel Toth - Reanimator Value
Mizzix - Out of the Box Spellslinger
Remember. These two are 'just' the Planeswalker Versions for new players and not made for constructed...
I think Tezzeret, Master of Metal is really good. Sure he might not see standard play but his abilities are really good compared to the other three Deck 'walkers we've seen.
I'm really hoping this Liliana is as good as Master of Metal, but it's already looking like that's not the case.
Her plus one ability is pretty bad. When am I going to want to pay seven mana to put a -1/-1 counter on a creature? I could see up to two -1/-1 counters on up to two creatures...
Translation on Lili appears to actually be "Up to two target creatures."
That's not too bad. Weaken your opponents board, prevent creatures from Persist-ing. Maybe her own creatures have some way to gain from -1/-1's as well. I can't wait to see the decks.
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DECKS:
Commander:
Aurelia the Warleader - Combat Tricks and Swarm
Oloro, Ageless Ascetic - Lifegain/Lifedrain Pillowfort
Trostani, Selesnya's Voice - Token Assault
Meren of Clan Nel Toth - Reanimator Value
Mizzix - Out of the Box Spellslinger
Translation on Lili appears to actually be "Up to two target creatures."
That's not too bad.
Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure the OP got it right and it's just one creature. I don't speak Portuguese, but I just compared the wording we can see in the OP image of Liliana's ability:
Coloque um marcador -1/-1 em até uma criatura alvo.
(also notice that it's "criatura" and not "criaturas", so it's singular as I've checked and Portuguese uses the "s" for plural like English and unlike Italian) with the Portuguese wording of Ajani, Valiant Protector's first ability:
Coloque dois marcadores +1/+1 em até uma criatura alvo.
which in the English version of Ajani is:
Put two +1/+1 counters on up to one target creature.
Notice how all the bolded parts are the same. This leaves no doubt for Liliana: it's a -1/-1 counter on just one single target creature.
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MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016 DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for: "Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index.Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
Well, it may only be one -1/-1 counter, but at least it's a +2 ability. If she has a -1 and its at least semi decent, it would still work out fairly well, the +2 would just be for recharging, instead of the bread and butter ability.
Thank you for the translating. I understand with the "um" and "criatura", the targeting is singular.
That is, power-wise, unfortunate.
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DECKS:
Commander:
Aurelia the Warleader - Combat Tricks and Swarm
Oloro, Ageless Ascetic - Lifegain/Lifedrain Pillowfort
Trostani, Selesnya's Voice - Token Assault
Meren of Clan Nel Toth - Reanimator Value
Mizzix - Out of the Box Spellslinger
Thank you for the translating. I understand with the "um" and "criatura", the targeting is singular.
That is, power-wise, unfortunate.
You're welcome. I agree that's pretty weak, but let's not forget these are the planeswalker deck versions, which are intentionally underpowered. We shouldn't really expect anything good from a power level perspective here.
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MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016 DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for: "Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index.Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
Even for planeswalker deck cards that quite the jank, I mean you have to compare a 5 and 7 mana cost card to the kind of vanilla commons and maybe uncommons you'd easily pick up just sifting through junk, and those don't hold up. Undoubtably its nowhere near as bad as razor boomerang once you factor in the other abilities, but yikes.
For all we know, Liliana's ultimate goes off the next turn and reanimates all creatures from all graveyards a la Rise of the Dark Realms.
But yeah, Gideon's good with Vehicles. Might be able to make some ripples in Standard.
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MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
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Mind you, these are the intro deck scaled down PWs. They've made one kinda playable one and three really bad ones thus far.
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
a) Constrictor doesn't double. it adds one more.
b) Constrictor only adds extras to your stuff. -1/-1 counters are typically wanted on your opponent's creatures.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Thread | Draft
Also, -1/-1 counters and +1/+1 counters can be in standard together. They don't put both into the same BLOCK because it increases complexity and creates confusing boards states for even veteran players in LIMITED. Wouldn't bet on persist, infect, or whither in Amonkhet. Persist, infect, and whither are problematic mechanics and warp draft environments around them. Doubly unlikely for infect because I strongly doubt Bolas would let's a plane of his creation get corrupted by phyrisis on purpose!
Perhaps there's persist in the Amonkhet block. Resurrection fits a mummy/zombie theme, and giving creatures -1/-1 counters to prevent "resurrection" feels like a necromantic ability. Additionally, wither may be in play as well, as well as new mechanics that interact with -1/-1 counters.
Commander:
Aurelia the Warleader - Combat Tricks and Swarm
Oloro, Ageless Ascetic - Lifegain/Lifedrain Pillowfort
Trostani, Selesnya's Voice - Token Assault
Meren of Clan Nel Toth - Reanimator Value
Mizzix - Out of the Box Spellslinger
Standard:
RB Madness Vamps
Casual:
Formerly Modern Elfball
I think Tezzeret, Master of Metal is really good. Sure he might not see standard play but his abilities are really good compared to the other three Deck 'walkers we've seen.
I'm really hoping this Liliana is as good as Master of Metal, but it's already looking like that's not the case.
Her plus one ability is pretty bad. When am I going to want to pay seven mana to put a -1/-1 counter on a creature? I could see up to two -1/-1 counters on up to two creatures...
Dunes of Zairo
SHANDALAR
Innistrad - The Darkest Night
~THE RAVNICAN CONSORTIUM~
A Community Set
Commander: Allies & Adversaries
Older Magic as a Board Game: Panglacial Wurm , Mill
That's not too bad. Weaken your opponents board, prevent creatures from Persist-ing. Maybe her own creatures have some way to gain from -1/-1's as well. I can't wait to see the decks.
Commander:
Aurelia the Warleader - Combat Tricks and Swarm
Oloro, Ageless Ascetic - Lifegain/Lifedrain Pillowfort
Trostani, Selesnya's Voice - Token Assault
Meren of Clan Nel Toth - Reanimator Value
Mizzix - Out of the Box Spellslinger
Standard:
RB Madness Vamps
Casual:
Formerly Modern Elfball
Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure the OP got it right and it's just one creature. I don't speak Portuguese, but I just compared the wording we can see in the OP image of Liliana's ability:
(also notice that it's "criatura" and not "criaturas", so it's singular as I've checked and Portuguese uses the "s" for plural like English and unlike Italian) with the Portuguese wording of Ajani, Valiant Protector's first ability:
which in the English version of Ajani is:
Notice how all the bolded parts are the same. This leaves no doubt for Liliana: it's a -1/-1 counter on just one single target creature.
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here)
CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016
DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for:
"Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index. Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
That is, power-wise, unfortunate.
Commander:
Aurelia the Warleader - Combat Tricks and Swarm
Oloro, Ageless Ascetic - Lifegain/Lifedrain Pillowfort
Trostani, Selesnya's Voice - Token Assault
Meren of Clan Nel Toth - Reanimator Value
Mizzix - Out of the Box Spellslinger
Standard:
RB Madness Vamps
Casual:
Formerly Modern Elfball
You're welcome. I agree that's pretty weak, but let's not forget these are the planeswalker deck versions, which are intentionally underpowered. We shouldn't really expect anything good from a power level perspective here.
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here)
CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016
DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for:
"Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index. Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
But yeah, Gideon's good with Vehicles. Might be able to make some ripples in Standard.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.