+1 for that post alone, but I think if anything, we'll get them in the block after Amonkhet (Atlazan?). It would fit perfectly to the thematic of the land rising or sinking back into the sea, plus bringing them in for the next rotation means they won't collide with bfz duals.
Just keep in mind, they didn't plan for BFZ and Amonkhet to be legal together. Fetches are still entirely possible.
you're right, I thought of that as well and sure it's a possibility, but I wouldn't be very fond of it. I don't want another standard dominated by 4 color goodstuff decks fetching all day long to the same duals, I thought the jeskai black meta back then was horrible. Then again the current meta is horrible, so it will at the very least shake things up.
I'm SO SICK of the "too strong for Standard" argument. It's the new "Dies to removal". We can have a two mana 4/4 with a zillion abilities, but we can't just have Accumulated Knowledge. Makes sense.
I've been saying this for a while - WotC should put full art land in every set, but they should be one to a booster box. It would make them valuable and sought after. It wouldn't effect standard at all and at only one per booster box they would hold value and not become ho-hum. They could just put it in the "rare" token slot on the printing sheet and voila, five full art basics in each set.
Just keep in mind, they didn't plan for BFZ and Amonkhet to be legal together. Fetches are still entirely possible.
Yet they DID plan for Amonkhet and Aether Revolt to be in standard together. I'm sure that Wizards was aware that fetches were excellent enablers during testing, but I don't know if they intended a fetches+revolt standard meta from the beginning. I get it when people say that they want zen fetches to be reprinted or that they need to be reprinted, but people who are absolutely certain that they will be reprinted might be setting themselves up for disappointment. It's unlikely that Wizards is going to throw high-value reprints in standard now that the masterpiece series exists.
well they are even less the kind of thing you put in a limited print run, and they ARE going to be reprinted at some point. Masterpieces can't reasonably stop value reprints
I didn't say they wouldn't get reprinted period, but I would bet on their appearance more in a Master's set than in standard. I already said that I get the need for the prices to go down, but it's unlikely that they'll be used to sell a standard set. RTS, Theros, and Khans all had high-value reprints used to stimulate sales, and my point was that, from the company's perspective, they don't need to resort to that anymore with the masterpiece lottery. Discussions of fetches in Amonkhet always either lead to how bad the prices of the lands are, which isn't indicative of anything, or that the set will likely be multicolor, which doesn't necessarily mean fetches will be the duals of choice. If we had a more solid leak or hint about when Zen fetches will next appear, I'd be more willing to believe they'd be in standard. This could be a chance for Wizards to step in on the secondary market, but it could just as easily prove a flashpoint.
That would be such a terrible decision for the players. A Masters reprint will do little to stifle the prices of Zen fetches (unless they actually print to demand at a reasonable price point but we know damn well that isn't going to happen).
I've been saying this for a while - WotC should put full art land in every set, but they should be one to a booster box. It would make them valuable and sought after. It wouldn't effect standard at all and at only one per booster box they would hold value and not become ho-hum. They could just put it in the "rare" token slot on the printing sheet and voila, five full art basics in each set.
it's a fantastic idea. it also means people can be choosy and express personal preference when it comes to choosing their full-arts of choice.
at the moment, the options are nice, but limited, and not everyone is into Zendikar. I know for myself that despite having a bunhc of full-arts (old and new) i'll always sleeve up my Unhinged ones.
if a new set (looking at you amonkhet) could pique my interest through just the use of basic lands, that's pretty impressive. and they certainly have enough incredible artists on-board to achieve this. HOWEVER - to make truly spectacular land art, they need to move away from the fairly simple digital-art style. all the best lands (like, all of them) are hand painted. Donato Giancola, John Avon, like there's no substitute for proper physical media when it comes to landscapes.
the other stuff, it doesn't matter so much. but lands? it matters.
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I'm not crazy about the zendikar lands so I'm looking forward to these. The mirage basics were some of my favorites. Seeing as the setting is similar I hope these will be good too.
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Standard
none
Modern UBG B/U/G control BBB MBC WUR Control WWW Prison RRR Goblins
Legacy BBB Pox UBG B/U/G Control UWU StoneBlade UW Miracle Control
I do sort of hope that these full art lands look really quirky like Unglued's. I don't mind the other versions of full art lands, and I like them in their own way, but I do enjoy the really intricate frame of the Unglued lands, makes them really stand out.
I've been saying this for a while - WotC should put full art land in every set, but they should be one to a booster box. It would make them valuable and sought after. It wouldn't effect standard at all and at only one per booster box they would hold value and not become ho-hum. They could just put it in the "rare" token slot on the printing sheet and voila, five full art basics in each set.
it's a fantastic idea. it also means people can be choosy and express personal preference when it comes to choosing their full-arts of choice.
at the moment, the options are nice, but limited, and not everyone is into Zendikar. I know for myself that despite having a bunhc of full-arts (old and new) i'll always sleeve up my Unhinged ones.
if a new set (looking at you amonkhet) could pique my interest through just the use of basic lands, that's pretty impressive. and they certainly have enough incredible artists on-board to achieve this. HOWEVER - to make truly spectacular land art, they need to move away from the fairly simple digital-art style. all the best lands (like, all of them) are hand painted. Donato Giancola, John Avon, like there's no substitute for proper physical media when it comes to landscapes.
the other stuff, it doesn't matter so much. but lands? it matters.
John's Website says that he's been doing things "digital-art style" for a while now. Since before Unhinged came out.
"John switched to painting digitally in 2002 and so there are very few originals now available." - John Avon FAQ
I would also think WOTC could move to a method of doing full-art lands as the "rare" basic lands so we get to see full art of every world, but they still retain their uniqueness.
I can agree with Wizards in the sense that they don't want to overdo the Full Art lands...
To a point.
Full art lands are just so beautiful and honestly they just make sense to me, no matter what the setting is. Zendikar's last batch of full art lands were alright... but I am really looking for some full art lands for other worlds. Zendikar is a little monotonous... it all looks like piles of rocks. I want to see lush jungles and vast deserts, winding rivers and mountains touching clouds in beautiful full art.
I 100% support the full art lands being in other sets aside from Zendikar. For one, Zendikar is pretty messed up at the moment due to the Eldrazi laying waste to a good chunk of it. Also, just because Zendikar was "land" themed with landfall and all doesn't justify it enough to withhold beautiful full art lands from other sets. Plus, it's not like the unhinged lands are going to drop in price because of it.
Also,
Basic lands are something that players use all the time. Sure you have formats where you're mostly dealing with nonbasics, but basic lands are a big part in the look and feel of each set. Players should be able to marvel at them in full-art glory.
HOWEVER - to make truly spectacular land art, they need to move away from the fairly simple digital-art style. all the best lands (like, all of them) are hand painted. Donato Giancola, John Avon, like there's no substitute for proper physical media when it comes to landscapes.
It's always amusing to see people bashing digital while being unable to identify what's digital and what's not.
In the end it all boils down to the artist. Always. Good ones do good art, regardless of the method, and if someone's to blame for poor art quality it's wizards for choosing to employ cheap, amateur artists (who, surprise surprise, mostly does poor digital speedpaints because that's quicker, easier and does not require skills they do not have).
This is spot on. I don`t care how it`s made, I know what I like when I see it.
People`s reactions are understandable though, because there is no art that feels cheaper and more off-putting than bad digital art, the kind where it looks way too glossy and dead. Look at Mystic Monastery, it feels like the artist is trying to get away with cheating. "Sure, I`ll just put some 3D block structures on top of each other and slap a texture on it, nobody`s gonna look twice". I`d take a terrible painting over that any day. Same with promo Elspeth, Sun's Champion with her mannequin head.
On the other hand, if Restoration Angel or new John Avon lands are made on a computer, I couldn`t care less. They look awesome.
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When I hit my 3000 post mark, I'm gone for good.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
HOWEVER - to make truly spectacular land art, they need to move away from the fairly simple digital-art style. all the best lands (like, all of them) are hand painted. Donato Giancola, John Avon, like there's no substitute for proper physical media when it comes to landscapes.
It's always amusing to see people bashing digital while being unable to identify what's digital and what's not.
unfortunately my comment seems to have run away with itself, and partly that's my fault for not writing it explicitly enough (or is it? haha, controversial!)
I'm an artist, designer, teacher & have a postgrad in design. I do know what i'm looking at when it comes to digital art, and there's really no other way to put it.
and if you look back at my comment, you'll see that I didn't say specifically which John Avon pieces I considered to be digital, just that the *best* ones were done with physical media. Personal preference plays some part obviously, but i'm considering things from a critical-analysis perspective, and i do slightly resent your holier-than-thou "i am amused by your ignorance" comment. And sure, I name-dropped a couple of artists; ones that I know for sure have done some of the most spectacular art (with physical media) for lands over the years. so perhaps your interpretation of what I said got away from you, or maybe it really was the way I wrote it... who knows - either way, your smugness wasn't appreciated & I feel comfortably in the right to let you know that this was the case.
the rest of your comment is fine - good artists do make good art. I mean... it's a tautology but hey, not everyone's a writer so it doesn't matter. I get what you're saying & i agree wholeheartedly. more good artists plz wizards.
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You're not good at not looking consecending either.
I thought it was a fair jab, considering his use of language. Besides, I never claimed to be a writer either. He (or she, but for brevity I'll use 'he' as a stand-in), however, was explicit in his personal, but misguided amusement of what he saw as the ignorance of others. I'm only going on the information I've got (his writing). He assumed something about me in a smug fashion and it was wrong.
So I'm not sure it entirely goes both ways here, as you're implying.
Back on topic, I'm going to get as many of these lands as physically possible, haha. Full arts. ANY full arts. I want all of them.
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Unfortunately, the article doesn't give any information about that because it only talks about promos given away by WPN stores. It's not out of the question, but full art lands are popular enough that they could print promo ones regardless of how the booster lands look.
People complaining about art being digital or praising it for being traditional, only to be told otherwise. It appears, even such "artists, designers, teachers & people with postgrad in design" as you aren't safe from making such mistakes.
except I didn't make a mistake. I just said the better stuff was done with physical media. I wasn't specific about a card or a piece he's done. whether you believe I can recognise a digital piece or not (I work in an art gallery, so take a wild guess) isn't the point, I said what I meant.
I also admitted that I could have phrased my post better. fair enough. I just didn't like your smug tone pointing out my "mistake" when there wasn't one. chill dude we're all in the same metaphorical boat here - i.e. we all like awesome full-art lands and this is an exciting piece of news. I just happened to suggest that actual painted art tends to be better on lands, and suddenly you're commenting on my big "mistake", oh look one of the art-plebs doesn't know what he's talking about, oh how amusing, i feel superior and need to put it in a comment for some reason... bleh. if anything it just caused irritation and made me want to hit back at you, which honestly I don't care for. I'd much rather talk about the topic at hand, so please can we drop this nonsense now and I suggest being more chill.
most of all i'm interested to see how they handle the Islands and Forests. I have high hopes =)
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is this thread really arguing about digital art vs traditional art? y'all know art is subjective, right?
It's really more "can you even tell which art is digital" apparently which, jesus, take it to PM's people. We all love a little forum drama, but sheesh.
On topic, I would have no problem with Wizards just doing full art lands for all sets, frankly. It is the basic lands that frame the setting for each set, and having expanded art for that would be far better IMO than preserving some strange sense of exclusivity regarding zendikar full-arts. People would still pay top dollar for unhinged and unglued lands, after all.
is this thread really arguing about digital art vs traditional art? y'all know art is subjective, right?
I'd like to offer this thread, in which MTGS users create digital art. It's quite ... striking.
On topic: This seems like an interesting promotion, although I'd love to know how stores are going to distribute them. I guess I have to bring new people to the store? Interesting. I foresee a lot of abuse, and very little retention of those new people.
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Along with many mods, I've moved shop over to MTGNexus. Come check us out!
Oh, man, I'd love to see those reprinted! I could use 20 or so of each. Until then, I guess I'll fall back on my Odyssey/7th Edition foils, a few Unglued Full-art lands (that Terese Nielsen Forest!) and Ice Age basic lands (that other forest!)
you're right, I thought of that as well and sure it's a possibility, but I wouldn't be very fond of it. I don't want another standard dominated by 4 color goodstuff decks fetching all day long to the same duals, I thought the jeskai black meta back then was horrible. Then again the current meta is horrible, so it will at the very least shake things up.
That would be such a terrible decision for the players. A Masters reprint will do little to stifle the prices of Zen fetches (unless they actually print to demand at a reasonable price point but we know damn well that isn't going to happen).
UR Blue-Red Control
Modern:
UBR Grixis Control
UWR Jeskai Control
it's a fantastic idea. it also means people can be choosy and express personal preference when it comes to choosing their full-arts of choice.
at the moment, the options are nice, but limited, and not everyone is into Zendikar. I know for myself that despite having a bunhc of full-arts (old and new) i'll always sleeve up my Unhinged ones.
if a new set (looking at you amonkhet) could pique my interest through just the use of basic lands, that's pretty impressive. and they certainly have enough incredible artists on-board to achieve this. HOWEVER - to make truly spectacular land art, they need to move away from the fairly simple digital-art style. all the best lands (like, all of them) are hand painted. Donato Giancola, John Avon, like there's no substitute for proper physical media when it comes to landscapes.
the other stuff, it doesn't matter so much. but lands? it matters.
none
Modern
UBG B/U/G control
BBB MBC
WUR Control
WWW Prison
RRR Goblins
Legacy
BBB Pox
UBG B/U/G Control
UWU StoneBlade
UW Miracle Control
John's Website says that he's been doing things "digital-art style" for a while now. Since before Unhinged came out.
"John switched to painting digitally in 2002 and so there are very few originals now available." - John Avon FAQ
Excited to see how these lands look.
To a point.
Full art lands are just so beautiful and honestly they just make sense to me, no matter what the setting is. Zendikar's last batch of full art lands were alright... but I am really looking for some full art lands for other worlds. Zendikar is a little monotonous... it all looks like piles of rocks. I want to see lush jungles and vast deserts, winding rivers and mountains touching clouds in beautiful full art.
I 100% support the full art lands being in other sets aside from Zendikar. For one, Zendikar is pretty messed up at the moment due to the Eldrazi laying waste to a good chunk of it. Also, just because Zendikar was "land" themed with landfall and all doesn't justify it enough to withhold beautiful full art lands from other sets. Plus, it's not like the unhinged lands are going to drop in price because of it.
Also,
Basic lands are something that players use all the time. Sure you have formats where you're mostly dealing with nonbasics, but basic lands are a big part in the look and feel of each set. Players should be able to marvel at them in full-art glory.
Welcome full art lands!
Dunes of Zairo
SHANDALAR
Innistrad - The Darkest Night
~THE RAVNICAN CONSORTIUM~
A Community Set
Commander: Allies & Adversaries
People`s reactions are understandable though, because there is no art that feels cheaper and more off-putting than bad digital art, the kind where it looks way too glossy and dead. Look at Mystic Monastery, it feels like the artist is trying to get away with cheating. "Sure, I`ll just put some 3D block structures on top of each other and slap a texture on it, nobody`s gonna look twice". I`d take a terrible painting over that any day. Same with promo Elspeth, Sun's Champion with her mannequin head.
On the other hand, if Restoration Angel or new John Avon lands are made on a computer, I couldn`t care less. They look awesome.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
What about for things that aren't popular?
unfortunately my comment seems to have run away with itself, and partly that's my fault for not writing it explicitly enough (or is it? haha, controversial!)
I'm an artist, designer, teacher & have a postgrad in design. I do know what i'm looking at when it comes to digital art, and there's really no other way to put it.
and if you look back at my comment, you'll see that I didn't say specifically which John Avon pieces I considered to be digital, just that the *best* ones were done with physical media. Personal preference plays some part obviously, but i'm considering things from a critical-analysis perspective, and i do slightly resent your holier-than-thou "i am amused by your ignorance" comment. And sure, I name-dropped a couple of artists; ones that I know for sure have done some of the most spectacular art (with physical media) for lands over the years. so perhaps your interpretation of what I said got away from you, or maybe it really was the way I wrote it... who knows - either way, your smugness wasn't appreciated & I feel comfortably in the right to let you know that this was the case.
the rest of your comment is fine - good artists do make good art. I mean... it's a tautology but hey, not everyone's a writer so it doesn't matter. I get what you're saying & i agree wholeheartedly. more good artists plz wizards.
You're not good at not looking consecending either.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
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I thought it was a fair jab, considering his use of language. Besides, I never claimed to be a writer either. He (or she, but for brevity I'll use 'he' as a stand-in), however, was explicit in his personal, but misguided amusement of what he saw as the ignorance of others. I'm only going on the information I've got (his writing). He assumed something about me in a smug fashion and it was wrong.
So I'm not sure it entirely goes both ways here, as you're implying.
Back on topic, I'm going to get as many of these lands as physically possible, haha. Full arts. ANY full arts. I want all of them.
RGTron
UGInfect
URStorm
WUBRAd Nauseam
BRGrishoalbrand
URGScapeshift
WBGAbzan Company
WUBRGAmulet Titan
BRGLiving End
WGBogles
Unfortunately, the article doesn't give any information about that because it only talks about promos given away by WPN stores. It's not out of the question, but full art lands are popular enough that they could print promo ones regardless of how the booster lands look.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
except I didn't make a mistake. I just said the better stuff was done with physical media. I wasn't specific about a card or a piece he's done. whether you believe I can recognise a digital piece or not (I work in an art gallery, so take a wild guess) isn't the point, I said what I meant.
I also admitted that I could have phrased my post better. fair enough. I just didn't like your smug tone pointing out my "mistake" when there wasn't one. chill dude we're all in the same metaphorical boat here - i.e. we all like awesome full-art lands and this is an exciting piece of news. I just happened to suggest that actual painted art tends to be better on lands, and suddenly you're commenting on my big "mistake", oh look one of the art-plebs doesn't know what he's talking about, oh how amusing, i feel superior and need to put it in a comment for some reason... bleh. if anything it just caused irritation and made me want to hit back at you, which honestly I don't care for. I'd much rather talk about the topic at hand, so please can we drop this nonsense now and I suggest being more chill.
most of all i'm interested to see how they handle the Islands and Forests. I have high hopes =)
It's really more "can you even tell which art is digital" apparently which, jesus, take it to PM's people. We all love a little forum drama, but sheesh.
On topic, I would have no problem with Wizards just doing full art lands for all sets, frankly. It is the basic lands that frame the setting for each set, and having expanded art for that would be far better IMO than preserving some strange sense of exclusivity regarding zendikar full-arts. People would still pay top dollar for unhinged and unglued lands, after all.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
I'd like to offer this thread, in which MTGS users create digital art. It's quite ... striking.
On topic: This seems like an interesting promotion, although I'd love to know how stores are going to distribute them. I guess I have to bring new people to the store? Interesting. I foresee a lot of abuse, and very little retention of those new people.
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Oh, man, I'd love to see those reprinted! I could use 20 or so of each. Until then, I guess I'll fall back on my Odyssey/7th Edition foils, a few Unglued Full-art lands (that Terese Nielsen Forest!) and Ice Age basic lands (that other forest!)
WBC Eldrazi & Taxes CBW
UR Keep on Cantripin' (UR Phoenix) RU
WU Surprise! It's not UW Control! (UW Midrange) UW
BG The Rock, Straight BG
U Mono-Blue Fish U
RBW Mardu Pyromancer BWR
RG Rabble! Rabble! (GR Blood Moon Aggro) GR
Legacy
W Death & Taxes W