Guess Standard must be in a rock-bottom, nigh unsalvageable position between these, Standard Showdown, Masterpieces and the bannings. Glad I abandonned ship a long ago when I saw this coming.
Why the negativity? Wizards providing original/valuable incentives for playing standard is a good thing, no?
The point is that if they're so desperate in trying to sell Standard when in the past just FNMs did the job it's because it's probably sinking hard. I had the suspicions when they started doing the Masterpieces as a regular thing and then the Standard Showdown packs. People rating it a 3/10 format in the Wizards survey fiasco a while ago (which is what led to the bannings by the way) seems to confirm that theory, and now they bring more shiny rewards in order to attract players to a format which is supposed to be the most played.
it is just another insult to eternal players, who cares they do one of those every month
Why? I don't get the point. Standard Showdown has been a great success throughout the world as far as I know, not only for the little booster prizes but also for the experience of some little local stores play that was vastly lost after the beginning of the new PPTQ structure. If they have seen that this kind of initiatives help them to make the experience of playing Magic a little better, than every kind of random prize every Standard season is fine.
Eternal formats run wild without this kind of support, and most importantly don't need to be anchored to every new set because each one brings just a very little amount of cards to them, and Modern, Legacy and Vintage players don't need to crack packs to find cards for their decks. The best they can do to support older formats are the Master series, but maybe they could try and run some kind of Modern Showdown during Modern's PPTQ season just to see how it goes. And I don't think it would be nearly as successful.
eternal isn't supported at all
it is not even test for bans/unbans/mechanics (while legacy and vintage can sort of balance themselves modern cannot and the lack of testing is rapresentated by unhelty meta)
there is no modern pro tour at all..
modern masters are intended to be a limited experience for draft players (awesome yes but doesn't help at all modern community)
i stopped playing magic years ago, i returned a little more than a year ago and every single choose i remember wotc did was against eternal and only in favor to more in sellings in standard lol
Why the negativity? Wizards providing original/valuable incentives for playing standard is a good thing, no?
The point is that if they're so desperate in trying to sell Standard when in the past just FNMs did the job it's because it's probably sinking hard. I had the suspicions when they started doing the Masterpieces as a regular thing and then the Standard Showdown packs. People rating it a 3/10 format in the Wizards survey fiasco a while ago (which is what led to the bannings by the way) seems to confirm that theory, and now they bring more shiny rewards in order to attract players to a format which is supposed to be the most played.
How do Masterpieces being a regular thing push Standard when they're mostly not Standard legal cards?
As far as Standard Showdown - are they not allowed to try new things and see how they work? Does it have to be because the world is ending?
And yeah, Emrakul standard was rough and that's what earned the bannings. But I'd bet they had something like this in the works for a while, considering it takes a not insignificant amount of time to get new cards created and printed.
Why the negativity? Wizards providing original/valuable incentives for playing standard is a good thing, no?
The point is that if they're so desperate in trying to sell Standard when in the past just FNMs did the job it's because it's probably sinking hard. I had the suspicions when they started doing the Masterpieces as a regular thing and then the Standard Showdown packs. People rating it a 3/10 format in the Wizards survey fiasco a while ago (which is what led to the bannings by the way) seems to confirm that theory, and now they bring more shiny rewards in order to attract players to a format which is supposed to be the most played.
How do Masterpieces being a regular thing push Standard when they're mostly not Standard legal cards?
As far as Standard Showdown - are they not allowed to try new things and see how they work? Does it have to be because the world is ending?
And yeah, Emrakul standard was rough and that's what earned the bannings. But I'd bet they had something like this in the works for a while, considering it takes a not insignificant amount of time to get new cards created and printed.
1) They incentivize it by making newer players more prone to cracking packs hoping they'll get their lottery ticket, which they can then sell to buy their Standard decks, and even attract Eternal players that would have no business cracking Standard packs otherwise.
2) About Standard Showdown, this "try" costs money, time and resources. Why would they spend all these if Standard was running just fine? While they'll never admit it was because poor sales, it's not difficult to connect the dots here. I've even heard that it didn't go very well.
3) Doubt they had it "in the works" as you put it simply because they asked which cards were the most "unfun" in Standard after the survey fiasco and went from there. Particularly Smuggler's Copter, which only saw 3 months in the sun and wasn't even that dominant.
4) They themselves admitted recently that Standard was on a downswing due to their stubborn reluctancy to print good answers while continuously pushing ridiculous creatures.
1) They incentivize it by making newer players more prone to cracking packs hoping they'll get their lottery ticket, which they can then sell to buy their Standard decks, and even attract Eternal players that would have no business cracking Standard packs otherwise.
So you're equating people who pop packs with Standard players. I disagree with that.
2) About Standard Showdown, this "try" costs money, time and resources. Why would they spend all these if Standard was running just fine? While they'll never admit it was because poor sales, it's not difficult to connect the dots here. I've even heard that it didn't go very well.
Because at some point people in Marketing said "We think this'll work. Let's pilot it!"
Sure, it might have gotten the green light because sales were down, but that doesn't mean it's "nigh unsalvageable" (which is hilarious that you'd even think that considering it'd mean Magic is about to shut down).
3) Doubt they had it "in the works" as you put it simply because they asked which cards were the most "unfun" in Standard after the survey fiasco and went from there. Particularly Smuggler's Copter, which only saw 3 months in the sun and wasn't even that dominant.
Wut. You're right. The bannings weren't in the works for a while. They absolutely were a reaction, at least partially, to the survey fiasco.
"not even that dominant" mtgtop8.com lists 262 Standard decks used in events above Regular REL - 159 of them had Copter in them while it was alive.
If we include Regular it's 1459 and 805. The actual numbers and your statements don't line up.
4) They themselves admitted recently that Standard was on a downswing due to their stubborn reluctancy to print good answers while continuously pushing ridiculous creatures.
Yes. Absolutely. I didn't say Standard was completely healthy - I took odds with your assertion that it was "nigh unsalvageable" or "rock-bottom".
This is another marketing thing, similar to Standard Showdown or the Kaladesh/Aether Revolt league. It was probably green-lit due to falling sales but it doesn't mean that Standard is going to end.
So you're equating people who pop packs with Standard players. I disagree with that.
Standard players also pop packs, though. Unless your LGS has a store credit system, prize packs are always of the latest set. With Masterpieces in the set, more players both show up for events in order to win those prize packs and crack one, and Eternal players crack packs when they wouldn't otherwise buy a single one. That's the idea, at least.
Because at some point people in Marketing said "We think this'll work. Let's pilot it!"
Sure, it might have gotten the green light because sales were down, but that doesn't mean it's "nigh unsalvageable" (which is hilarious that you'd even think that considering it'd mean Magic is about to shut down).
Before those people thought that would work though there were resources spent and circumstances considered. They didn't suddenly decide it in a lunch meeting between shifts, and if Marketing worked on it it's certainly because the product needed a boost, or they wouldn't have bothered. "If it ain't broken, don't fix it", they say. Also, I've never implied that Magic was dying, but anyways it's Limited what keeps it afloat, as they've claimed several times.
Wut. You're right. The bannings weren't in the works for a while. They absolutely were a reaction, at least partially, to the survey fiasco.
"not even that dominant" mtgtop8.com lists 262 Standard decks used in events above Regular REL - 159 of them had Copter in them while it was alive.
If we include Regular it's 1459 and 805. The actual numbers and your statements don't line up.
Now you're confusing "ubiquitous" with "dominating". Caw Blade was dominating. Affinity was dominating. Necro was dominating. Academy was dominating. Heck even Collected Company was dominating last year. Tarmogoyf and Lightning Bolt are ubiquitous in Modern, but would you say they're dominating and/or in need of a ban?
Yes. Absolutely. I didn't say Standard was completely healthy - I took odds with your assertion that it was "nigh unsalvageable" or "rock-bottom"
This is another marketing thing, similar to Standard Showdown or the Kaladesh/Aether Revolt league. It was probably green-lit due to falling sales but it doesn't mean that Standard is going to end.
I love that we can get regular border non-foil versions of these lands with that art. Too bad Sunken Ruins etc. couldn't be part of the cycle (granted they're not in standard) since I love that art on a regular border non-foil.
Basically, I hate foils.
I hate Standard and Modern. All they do is drive up the price of fun cards for EDH.
I love that we can get regular border non-foil versions of these lands with that art. Too bad Sunken Ruins etc. couldn't be part of the cycle (granted they're not in standard) since I love that art on a regular border non-foil.
Basically, I hate foils.
I hate Standard and Modern. All they do is drive up the price of fun cards for EDH.
I think those are foils. They're cited as "promo cards", and except for the Uncommon handed out at Launch Parties, those have always been foil AFAIK.
I love that we can get regular border non-foil versions of these lands with that art. Too bad Sunken Ruins etc. couldn't be part of the cycle (granted they're not in standard) since I love that art on a regular border non-foil.
Basically, I hate foils.
I hate Standard and Modern. All they do is drive up the price of fun cards for EDH.
lands are "masterpiece" foil, for what that means
and sometimes it is EDH that drives up card prices... at least for me that i'm a turn player and foil extra turns are so expensive due to edh ahahah
I guess some people forgot that wizards used to give insane cards for participating in events. Player rewards damnation, crytic, and wrath are still pretty valuable. Not to mention all the full art uncommons that came with it. I wish they'd bring that back but it's not as bad when coldsnap was legal....
I love that we can get regular border non-foil versions of these lands with that art. Too bad Sunken Ruins etc. couldn't be part of the cycle (granted they're not in standard) since I love that art on a regular border non-foil.
Basically, I hate foils.
I hate Standard and Modern. All they do is drive up the price of fun cards for EDH.
lands are "masterpiece" foil, for what that means
and sometimes it is EDH that drives up card prices... at least for me that i'm a turn player and foil extra turns are so expensive due to edh ahahah
EDH rarely does IMO. I don't like foils so never paid attention to that market but cool thematic things like Faeries and stuff end up being a fortune because oh, that's played in this or in that. Ffffff. I just want fun cards for a casual format to make cool deck themes. And only need one copy!
So Legacy and Modern are real bummers. But Standard is the worst because cards go from $25 to $5. And I'm here like… Waiting for Torrential Gearkhulk to rotate so I can play it in Silas Renn EDH for example. Or the new Gideon so I can play him in my Theros heroes deck etc.
The real problem is the RPTQ system more than the format. If other formats haven't suffered as much as standard, I would argue it's because:
-Modern is generally played by "more serious" players, who the RPTQ format is aimed at. Also, if you've invested in a modern deck you want to play it.
-Limited doesn't require any planning or investment, you can jump right in without feeling disadvantaged
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If the Vikings were around today, they would probably be amazed at how much glow-in-the-dark stuff we have, and how we take it for granted.
I'm not sure who the target audience is supposed to be on this. At first I was excited; I don't really play standard but maybe I'd toss together some budget standard lists, go get pasted 1-3 at a few FNMs, and collect my sweet sweet alt art BattleLand! But then I did the math:
- Even a mediocre standard deck (R/B Vamp-ristocrats, G/W Revolt) is going to be a $25+ investment, since I have only bought a handful of packs of anything since BfZ.
- THEN I pay a standard entry fee to FNM.
- THEN I most likely lose to various netdeckers and generally much more competent players for a few hours.
- Repeat steps 2 and 3 five times.
For that price I can almost just go buy an Expedition land and save myself some time and sorrow. I imagine that I'm not alone here; "serious" players would rather play Modern or Limited and will crush the competition at Standard, making it a tough sell for the casual "Prerelease" crowd to feel like investing the money and taking the leap.
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Sufferer of EDHD
Commander - Currently Playing: RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G) RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B) WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
The intended audience is probably those that go to Standard event, but just not that frequently. My LGS has two Standard events per week, so 8 per month. I have friends that go to two, sometimes three events per month. They already HAVE the decks, and are frequently competitive in terms of winning/losing/top 8-ing, but they just don't go as often as they could, even without conflicts in their schedule. A lack of exciting FNM promo's has been cited as one of the reason's why. Offering these lands up as a prize for little more than participation will likely encourage them to come out another time or two per month.
I want to go back to the days they ofered Emrakuls and Wurmcoil Engines for players :/
Discussions of prerelease promos are best left for another thread, probably one that started when Wizards stopped giving out mythic rare pre-re promos in 2011.
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Guess Standard must be in a rock-bottom, nigh unsalvageable position between these, Standard Showdown, Masterpieces and the bannings. Glad I abandonned ship a long ago when I saw this coming.
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
The point is that if they're so desperate in trying to sell Standard when in the past just FNMs did the job it's because it's probably sinking hard. I had the suspicions when they started doing the Masterpieces as a regular thing and then the Standard Showdown packs. People rating it a 3/10 format in the Wizards survey fiasco a while ago (which is what led to the bannings by the way) seems to confirm that theory, and now they bring more shiny rewards in order to attract players to a format which is supposed to be the most played.
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
URW PillowFort Stasis (costruction)
modern:
U Taking Turns combo
pauper:
UB Servitor Control
xenob8 : you know you are going to have a bad time when opponent starts with snow covered island
eternal isn't supported at all
it is not even test for bans/unbans/mechanics (while legacy and vintage can sort of balance themselves modern cannot and the lack of testing is rapresentated by unhelty meta)
there is no modern pro tour at all..
modern masters are intended to be a limited experience for draft players (awesome yes but doesn't help at all modern community)
i stopped playing magic years ago, i returned a little more than a year ago and every single choose i remember wotc did was against eternal and only in favor to more in sellings in standard lol
URW PillowFort Stasis (costruction)
modern:
U Taking Turns combo
pauper:
UB Servitor Control
xenob8 : you know you are going to have a bad time when opponent starts with snow covered island
How do Masterpieces being a regular thing push Standard when they're mostly not Standard legal cards?
As far as Standard Showdown - are they not allowed to try new things and see how they work? Does it have to be because the world is ending?
And yeah, Emrakul standard was rough and that's what earned the bannings. But I'd bet they had something like this in the works for a while, considering it takes a not insignificant amount of time to get new cards created and printed.
WiJ
Peasant 540 Cube
1) They incentivize it by making newer players more prone to cracking packs hoping they'll get their lottery ticket, which they can then sell to buy their Standard decks, and even attract Eternal players that would have no business cracking Standard packs otherwise.
2) About Standard Showdown, this "try" costs money, time and resources. Why would they spend all these if Standard was running just fine? While they'll never admit it was because poor sales, it's not difficult to connect the dots here. I've even heard that it didn't go very well.
3) Doubt they had it "in the works" as you put it simply because they asked which cards were the most "unfun" in Standard after the survey fiasco and went from there. Particularly Smuggler's Copter, which only saw 3 months in the sun and wasn't even that dominant.
4) They themselves admitted recently that Standard was on a downswing due to their stubborn reluctancy to print good answers while continuously pushing ridiculous creatures.
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
So you're equating people who pop packs with Standard players. I disagree with that.
Because at some point people in Marketing said "We think this'll work. Let's pilot it!"
Sure, it might have gotten the green light because sales were down, but that doesn't mean it's "nigh unsalvageable" (which is hilarious that you'd even think that considering it'd mean Magic is about to shut down).
Wut. You're right. The bannings weren't in the works for a while. They absolutely were a reaction, at least partially, to the survey fiasco.
"not even that dominant" mtgtop8.com lists 262 Standard decks used in events above Regular REL - 159 of them had Copter in them while it was alive.
If we include Regular it's 1459 and 805. The actual numbers and your statements don't line up.
Yes. Absolutely. I didn't say Standard was completely healthy - I took odds with your assertion that it was "nigh unsalvageable" or "rock-bottom".
This is another marketing thing, similar to Standard Showdown or the Kaladesh/Aether Revolt league. It was probably green-lit due to falling sales but it doesn't mean that Standard is going to end.
Standard players also pop packs, though. Unless your LGS has a store credit system, prize packs are always of the latest set. With Masterpieces in the set, more players both show up for events in order to win those prize packs and crack one, and Eternal players crack packs when they wouldn't otherwise buy a single one. That's the idea, at least.
Before those people thought that would work though there were resources spent and circumstances considered. They didn't suddenly decide it in a lunch meeting between shifts, and if Marketing worked on it it's certainly because the product needed a boost, or they wouldn't have bothered. "If it ain't broken, don't fix it", they say. Also, I've never implied that Magic was dying, but anyways it's Limited what keeps it afloat, as they've claimed several times.
Now you're confusing "ubiquitous" with "dominating". Caw Blade was dominating. Affinity was dominating. Necro was dominating. Academy was dominating. Heck even Collected Company was dominating last year. Tarmogoyf and Lightning Bolt are ubiquitous in Modern, but would you say they're dominating and/or in need of a ban?
We agree on this one.
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
Basically, I hate foils.
I hate Standard and Modern. All they do is drive up the price of fun cards for EDH.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
I think those are foils. They're cited as "promo cards", and except for the Uncommon handed out at Launch Parties, those have always been foil AFAIK.
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
lands are "masterpiece" foil, for what that means
and sometimes it is EDH that drives up card prices... at least for me that i'm a turn player and foil extra turns are so expensive due to edh ahahah
URW PillowFort Stasis (costruction)
modern:
U Taking Turns combo
pauper:
UB Servitor Control
xenob8 : you know you are going to have a bad time when opponent starts with snow covered island
So Legacy and Modern are real bummers. But Standard is the worst because cards go from $25 to $5. And I'm here like… Waiting for Torrential Gearkhulk to rotate so I can play it in Silas Renn EDH for example. Or the new Gideon so I can play him in my Theros heroes deck etc.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
The real problem is the RPTQ system more than the format. If other formats haven't suffered as much as standard, I would argue it's because:
-Modern is generally played by "more serious" players, who the RPTQ format is aimed at. Also, if you've invested in a modern deck you want to play it.
-Limited doesn't require any planning or investment, you can jump right in without feeling disadvantaged
Guess it's true. Rofl.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
- Even a mediocre standard deck (R/B Vamp-ristocrats, G/W Revolt) is going to be a $25+ investment, since I have only bought a handful of packs of anything since BfZ.
- THEN I pay a standard entry fee to FNM.
- THEN I most likely lose to various netdeckers and generally much more competent players for a few hours.
- Repeat steps 2 and 3 five times.
For that price I can almost just go buy an Expedition land and save myself some time and sorrow. I imagine that I'm not alone here; "serious" players would rather play Modern or Limited and will crush the competition at Standard, making it a tough sell for the casual "Prerelease" crowd to feel like investing the money and taking the leap.
RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR
WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG
GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG
GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G)
RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW
UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B)
WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
You talk like you don't even enjoy playing the game and are just interested in grinding.
it has a point that a lot of people share tho.
URW PillowFort Stasis (costruction)
modern:
U Taking Turns combo
pauper:
UB Servitor Control
xenob8 : you know you are going to have a bad time when opponent starts with snow covered island
Discussions of prerelease promos are best left for another thread, probably one that started when Wizards stopped giving out mythic rare pre-re promos in 2011.