Saheeli Rai is already being bought out on mtgo. No doubt they will ban that creature to protect Standard. No way they let a turn 4 infinite happen in Standard.
They specifically have said that they wanted to do a lot more combo than they have done recently in this block. It won't be banned...the way it would be banned is if it was consistent. Combo kill will happen, but it is probably something they planned for.
Saheeli Rai is already being bought out on mtgo. No doubt they will ban that creature to protect Standard. No way they let a turn 4 infinite happen in Standard.
They specifically have said that they wanted to do a lot more combo than they have done recently in this block. It won't be banned...the way it would be banned is if it was consistent. Combo kill will happen, but it is probably something they planned for.
Thalia laughs at all the cute little Felidar Guardian tokens which enter the battlefield tapped.
2x Felidar Guardian + Panharmonicon = blink all your lands back onto the bf untapped for infinite mana. Now all we need is a way to draw a card when a creature enters the battlefield to draw the entire deck and present the win condition on that turn. I am still cataloging the new cards; will look for that in a little bit.
Thalia laughs at all the cute little Felidar Guardian tokens which enter the battlefield tapped.
2x Felidar Guardian + Panharmonicon = blink all your lands back onto the bf untapped for infinite mana. Now all we need is a way to draw a card when a creature enters the battlefield to draw the entire deck and present the win condition on that turn. I am still cataloging the new cards; will look for that in a little bit.
Infinite combos already exist in Standard--Eldrazi Displacer + Brood Monitor--and no one has banned anything yet. I had that deck, too--it was annoying to go to 5,000 life via Pious Evangel then patiently take combat damage each turn, with or without creatures, until I can find a Felidar Sovereign. After sideboard, I switched to draining them via Zulaport Cutthroat.
Three and four card infinite combos are radically different from two card infinite combos.
Should start a separate topic: Things that can stop the combo dead on turn 4:
Authority of the Consuls, Talia, Anguished Unmaking, Queller, Countermagic, long road home (before saheeli drops), stasis snare, compelling deterrence, just the wind, sinister concoction, pick the brain, lost legacy, murder, any damage spell to the player at instant speed, ...
No matter what cards they print that can stop the combo, it doesn't matter. Null rod turn 1 on the play shuts off black lotus from opponent, doesn't make lotus fair. This 2 card combo is going to bust standard wide open, rest assured. WotC didn't print stuff to stop the combo, if they had caught that the combo existed they would have changed the text on the guardian or not printed it.
The 4 mana 2/2 that goes infinite with fumarole, however, is a dud. It's a 4 mana 2/2 without haste and can be chumped. Dies to basically every removal spell. Only reason it might pop up is because the UWR twin deck will exist and play fumarole so this could be backup combo win that also ignores really crappy stuff that shuts down the twin combo like authority of the consuls.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
Who is right about the Saheeli combo deck? Will it break standard? How high will she go? Is it actually a dud? I love watching these play out, its almost as much fun as actually playing magic!
As for me, I think it was an oversight that has the potential to be dangerous, but I will be surprised to see it turn into a very powerful deck. Are there enough pieces to dig for the combo? Are the combo pieces good at all on their own? Shrug, time will tell being able to go 'oops, I win' is always a good place to be
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The true mind can weather all the lies and illusions without being lost. The true heart can tough the poison of hatred without being harmed. Since beginning-less time, darkness thrives in the void but always yields to purifying light.
I invision a future where one is not mighty when he can silence a crowd with brutality,
but when he leaves them speechless with wisdom.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Saheeli Rai combo is pretty terrifying, especially since UW and UR Control are not bad archetypes to begin with and all the pieces are individually solid. I can't imagine we're not going to see Saheeli, Felidar, or both banned at some point in the next few months. I'm sure this isn't even an optimized list, but:
...Am I the only one excited about the potential return of Mono Green Stompy?
Greenpelt Rampager (and fetchlands) activate a number of other cards quite efficiently, including Greenbelt Liberator, narnam renegage, and hidden herbalist ('cause even a weak burning tree emissary is worth exploring). Longtusk Cub synergizes with the rampager and contributs to the +1/+1 counter theme. While a bit higher in cost, Bristling Hydra also marries energy with counters (and protects himself) and Verdurous Gearhulk is awesome. With the heavy +1/+1 counter theme in this block, Maulfist Revolutionaries can pump things up bigger and armorcraft judges could easily replenish your entire hand.
Even kill isn't too worrying, seeing how you have both Heroic Intervention AND Blossoming Defense.
...Okay, yeah. I know that it won't work. Even so, this is the MOST exciting that things have looked in a while.
Nope, you're definitely not alone. I think there is a lot of cool synergy with the card pool green has, but unfortunately it really doesn't have many ways to deal with the new combo deck (from what I can tell at a glance) which may kill the deck before it even starts.
You know what kind of sucks, not that many of these cards really interact with the Zendikar block. Nothing here really enable's madness, or encourages Eldrazi use. Why not have a card that uses energy to make C mana?
You know what kind of sucks, not that many of these cards really interact with the Zendikar block. Nothing here really enable's madness, or encourages Eldrazi use. Why not have a card that uses energy to make C mana?
When these were in development the rotation schedule had made it so Zendikar block wouldn't have been in standard at the same time.
As I said earlier, WOTC isn't going to ban anything because there are already so many ways to stop the combo before it hits or when it hits. There are three instant-speed Fog effects in Standard and one, Dazzling Reflection, which would be perfect against someone trying to pump a Crackdown Construct or Electrostatic Pummeler past the point of being lethal.
Meanwhile, Reckless Racer + Smuggler's Copter seems like fun. Tap the creature to crew the vehicle, rummage (discard a card, draw a card), then attack and loot (draw a card, discard a card). If you like filtering through cards, that is. The Racer also enables madness, if you enjoy that mechanic.
You know what kind of sucks, not that many of these cards really interact with the Zendikar block. Nothing here really enable's madness, or encourages Eldrazi use. Why not have a card that uses energy to make C mana?
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Add some counters and blockers and you're pretty much good to go.
The tricolor manabase could be trickier than most people here are assuming, though.
I'd be tempted to play this if I weren't convinced everyone else would be doing the same.
You are missing either Slip Through Space or Key to the City to make the Crackdown Construct unblockable. With access to Aether Hub, the BFZ dual lands, the OGW creaturelands, and the KLD fastlands building a consistent three-color mana base isn't too difficult. I am doing that right now in URW and the vast majority of the time I have access to the colors I need in the early turns of the game. What kills me is when I draw the artifact pieces of my combo without the Whirler Virtuoso, hence my back-up plan of Consulate Surveillance. The new Renegade Map makes it even easier, tutoring a basic land that you need.
They specifically have said that they wanted to do a lot more combo than they have done recently in this block. It won't be banned...the way it would be banned is if it was consistent. Combo kill will happen, but it is probably something they planned for.
dampening pulse
They planned for it
2x Felidar Guardian + Panharmonicon = blink all your lands back onto the bf untapped for infinite mana. Now all we need is a way to draw a card when a creature enters the battlefield to draw the entire deck and present the win condition on that turn. I am still cataloging the new cards; will look for that in a little bit.
Do-do-do-do-doot Inspector Thraben!
Standard - RIP Cat
Modern - Death & Taxes
Commander - Mazirek, Trostani, Angry Omnath
Three and four card infinite combos are radically different from two card infinite combos.
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
Authority of the Consuls, Talia, Anguished Unmaking, Queller, Countermagic, long road home (before saheeli drops), stasis snare, compelling deterrence, just the wind, sinister concoction, pick the brain, lost legacy, murder, any damage spell to the player at instant speed, ...
The 4 mana 2/2 that goes infinite with fumarole, however, is a dud. It's a 4 mana 2/2 without haste and can be chumped. Dies to basically every removal spell. Only reason it might pop up is because the UWR twin deck will exist and play fumarole so this could be backup combo win that also ignores really crappy stuff that shuts down the twin combo like authority of the consuls.
Currently Playing:
Retired
Was able to find a store in Australia with some in stock. Bought 8 for around $50 total including shipping
Who is right about the Saheeli combo deck? Will it break standard? How high will she go? Is it actually a dud? I love watching these play out, its almost as much fun as actually playing magic!
As for me, I think it was an oversight that has the potential to be dangerous, but I will be surprised to see it turn into a very powerful deck. Are there enough pieces to dig for the combo? Are the combo pieces good at all on their own? Shrug, time will tell being able to go 'oops, I win' is always a good place to be
I invision a future where one is not mighty when he can silence a crowd with brutality,
but when he leaves them speechless with wisdom.
I agree.
It's exactly the type of thing they'll cite as precedent
when they print true black artifact destruction.
That new green direct damage spell is BS, too.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
4 Thraben Inspector
2 Whirler Virtuoso
4 Felidar Guardian
2 Torrential Gearhulk
Planeswalkers: 4
4 Saheeli Rai
Instants and Sorceries: 19
4 Anticipate
4 Harnessed Lightning
2 Negate
3 Blessed Alliance
3 Glimmer of Genius
1 Disallow
1 Radiant Flames
1 Fumigate
4 Aether Hub
4 Port Town
4 Wandering Fumarole
3 Inspiring Vantage
1 Spirebluff Canal
5 Plains
4 Island
1 Mountain
RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR
WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG
GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG
GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G)
RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW
UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B)
WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
Greenpelt Rampager (and fetchlands) activate a number of other cards quite efficiently, including Greenbelt Liberator, narnam renegage, and hidden herbalist ('cause even a weak burning tree emissary is worth exploring). Longtusk Cub synergizes with the rampager and contributs to the +1/+1 counter theme. While a bit higher in cost, Bristling Hydra also marries energy with counters (and protects himself) and Verdurous Gearhulk is awesome. With the heavy +1/+1 counter theme in this block, Maulfist Revolutionaries can pump things up bigger and armorcraft judges could easily replenish your entire hand.
Even kill isn't too worrying, seeing how you have both Heroic Intervention AND Blossoming Defense.
...Okay, yeah. I know that it won't work. Even so, this is the MOST exciting that things have looked in a while.
What green direct damage spell? That one that's really just a splittable Rabid Bite? (Monstrous Onslaught)
Green getting damage-creatures-if-you-have-creatures-and-proportional-to-the-size-of-your-creature isn't anywhere near new.
Modern Tallowisp Spirits - A Modern Tallowisp Deck UW
Eldrazi Ninjas - Summoning Octopus Jutsu YYYYAAAHHHH!
STANDARD
Naban Wizards
When these were in development the rotation schedule had made it so Zendikar block wouldn't have been in standard at the same time.
Meanwhile, Reckless Racer + Smuggler's Copter seems like fun. Tap the creature to crew the vehicle, rummage (discard a card, draw a card), then attack and loot (draw a card, discard a card). If you like filtering through cards, that is. The Racer also enables madness, if you enjoy that mechanic.
Reckless Racer fuels madness, and Yahenni, Undying Partisan and Gifted Aetherborn might give Vampires one last desperate gasp at standard relevance (Fatal Push helps black decks as well). But yeah overall, not quite as much interaction.
RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR
WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG
GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG
GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G)
RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW
UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B)
WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
4 Crackdown Construct
4 Wandering Fumarole
4 Saheeli Rai
4 Felidar Guardian
Add some counters and blockers and you're pretty much good to go.
The tricolor manabase could be trickier than most people here are assuming, though.
I'd be tempted to play this if I weren't convinced everyone else would be doing the same.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
You are missing either Slip Through Space or Key to the City to make the Crackdown Construct unblockable. With access to Aether Hub, the BFZ dual lands, the OGW creaturelands, and the KLD fastlands building a consistent three-color mana base isn't too difficult. I am doing that right now in URW and the vast majority of the time I have access to the colors I need in the early turns of the game. What kills me is when I draw the artifact pieces of my combo without the Whirler Virtuoso, hence my back-up plan of Consulate Surveillance. The new Renegade Map makes it even easier, tutoring a basic land that you need.