So in panharmonicon deck I can play thought knot, next turn bounce thought knot and 2 threats. Play thought knot and remove those that from game?.... Seems busted in right shell
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Of course blue gets the weaker version of the cycle...
Sorcery speed bounce for 5. Baral better be good.
Of course people are going to whine about how hard done up blue is whenever a cycle of anything is spoiled. This one is definitely better than the white and green ones. Clear the board and drop your own threat at the same time.
Uh....yea no...so far this is definitely the weakest one revealed so far.
Of course blue gets the weaker version of the cycle...
Sorcery speed bounce for 5. Baral better be good.
Of course people are going to whine about how hard done up blue is whenever a cycle of anything is spoiled. This one is definitely better than the white and green ones. Clear the board and drop your own threat at the same time.
Uh....yea no...so far this is definitely the weakest one revealed so far.
Disagree. This is miles better than the green one, probably way better than the white one (unless a powerful token combo/synergy is found), and arguably better than the black one. In standard playing Baral's Expertise into planeswalker is probably backbreaking. Heck, it may even be vintage playable as a way to generate mana and/or storm count. Even pitches to FOW.
White one makes 3 dudes for 4 mana and still gives you a free spell, black one is effectively a wrath with a free spell, and the green one will draw on average 2-4 cards fueling the 2nd ability. Sure this is a big tempo swing, but it's sorcery speed, and 5 mana.
White one makes 3 dudes for 4 mana and still gives you a free spell, black one is effectively a wrath with a free spell, and the green one will draw on average 2-4 cards fueling the 2nd ability. Sure this is a big tempo swing, but it's sorcery speed, and 5 mana.
It's potentially the biggest tempo swing of all the expertise cycle. Dropping a planeswalker like Gideon or Chandra with your opponent's board being empty is ridiculous. Dropping a planeswalker like Tamiyo with an opponent's empty board and one or more creatures of your own is even better. And this card can target artifacts, so it can wreck vehicle decks, too.
Uh....yea no...so far this is definitely the weakest one revealed so far.
I strongly disagree with you here. The green expertise likely has the highest power ceiling, but is the kind of thing that is only good when you are already ahead. The texture of a deck that can play a 6 mana sorcery doesn't often lend itself to running a ton of creatures which makes it possible that it does little to nothing beyond cast a spell that costs 5. I can see situations where you have delirium and a grim flayer, you cast green expertise, draw 4 cards and get a free Ishkanah+babies, but that is an ideal case. In the ceiling cases (oh look I have emrakul or some other giant fattie they can't kill) you are already far enough ahead that this isn't likely the card that wins you the game. The floor of course is that you get literal nothing for your 6 mana after they kill your only creature. This one shares a similar floor in that it sometimes does actual nothing, but contextually, you actually WANT that situation in actual games of magic. This card provides a certain amount of expected value in that one of the things blue is missing is a way to come back when behind. Baral's Expertise being a sorcery really hurts it to be sure, but Torrential Gearhulk severely limits what they can print at instant speed for a while. It can still be an absurd tempo gainer to bounce your opponent's remaining board (you are playing some kind of removal yeah?)and dropping down a gideon or a glimmer of genius that you can now flashback next turn with a gearhulk.
Uh....yea no...so far this is definitely the weakest one revealed so far.
I strongly disagree with you here. The green expertise likely has the highest power ceiling, but is the kind of thing that is only good when you are already ahead. The texture of a deck that can play a 6 mana sorcery doesn't often lend itself to running a ton of creatures which makes it possible that it does little to nothing beyond cast a spell that costs 5. I can see situations where you have delirium and a grim flayer, you cast green expertise, draw 4 cards and get a free Ishkanah+babies, but that is an ideal case. In the ceiling cases (oh look I have emrakul or some other giant fattie they can't kill) you are already far enough ahead that this isn't likely the card that wins you the game. The floor of course is that you get literal nothing for your 6 mana after they kill your only creature. This one shares a similar floor in that it sometimes does actual nothing, but contextually, you actually WANT that situation in actual games of magic. This card provides a certain amount of expected value in that one of the things blue is missing is a way to come back when behind. Baral's Expertise being a sorcery really hurts it to be sure, but Torrential Gearhulk severely limits what they can print at instant speed for a while. It can still be an absurd tempo gainer to bounce your opponent's remaining board (you are playing some kind of removal yeah?)and dropping down a gideon or a glimmer of genius that you can now flashback next turn with a gearhulk.
I gladly eat cake on this one if I'm wrong, but right now this is the weakest in the cycle to me. The other 3 are much broader in usage.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Kynaios and Tiro, Couple of the Year 2016
Many thanks to DNC at Heroes of the Plane Studios
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
As-is, I'm not sure how this stacks up against Crush of Tentacles,
but being able to freecast a 3-4 CMC PW could be really good.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
But with crush sometimes you never even get to 6th land before you are dead or have a 1cc spell to surge with.
Many thanks to DNC at Heroes of the Plane Studios
Disagree. This is miles better than the green one, probably way better than the white one (unless a powerful token combo/synergy is found), and arguably better than the black one. In standard playing Baral's Expertise into planeswalker is probably backbreaking. Heck, it may even be vintage playable as a way to generate mana and/or storm count. Even pitches to FOW.
Many thanks to DNC at Heroes of the Plane Studios
It's potentially the biggest tempo swing of all the expertise cycle. Dropping a planeswalker like Gideon or Chandra with your opponent's board being empty is ridiculous. Dropping a planeswalker like Tamiyo with an opponent's empty board and one or more creatures of your own is even better. And this card can target artifacts, so it can wreck vehicle decks, too.
I strongly disagree with you here. The green expertise likely has the highest power ceiling, but is the kind of thing that is only good when you are already ahead. The texture of a deck that can play a 6 mana sorcery doesn't often lend itself to running a ton of creatures which makes it possible that it does little to nothing beyond cast a spell that costs 5. I can see situations where you have delirium and a grim flayer, you cast green expertise, draw 4 cards and get a free Ishkanah+babies, but that is an ideal case. In the ceiling cases (oh look I have emrakul or some other giant fattie they can't kill) you are already far enough ahead that this isn't likely the card that wins you the game. The floor of course is that you get literal nothing for your 6 mana after they kill your only creature. This one shares a similar floor in that it sometimes does actual nothing, but contextually, you actually WANT that situation in actual games of magic. This card provides a certain amount of expected value in that one of the things blue is missing is a way to come back when behind. Baral's Expertise being a sorcery really hurts it to be sure, but Torrential Gearhulk severely limits what they can print at instant speed for a while. It can still be an absurd tempo gainer to bounce your opponent's remaining board (you are playing some kind of removal yeah?)and dropping down a gideon or a glimmer of genius that you can now flashback next turn with a gearhulk.
Many thanks to DNC at Heroes of the Plane Studios