Oohh people don't understand Ludevic, he is not a worse Edric, edric can't partner anyone, you have acces to his opus, you have not only one extra card every game but an extra general, you can go voltron with opus and do other stuff with ludevic. I think that wizards overstimated the players capacitiy to grasp that having two commanders requires balance. Anyways when people actually start playing and winning games with partners they will realize what they were saying was an opinion in the vacuum.
Oohh people don't understand Ludevic, he is not a worse Edric, edric can't partner anyone, you have acces to his opus, you have not only one extra card every game but an extra general, you can go voltron with opus and do other stuff with ludevic. I think that wizards overstimated the players capacitiy to grasp that having two commanders requires balance. Anyways when people actually start playing and winning games with partners they will realize what they were saying was an opinion in the vacuum.
The existence of Opus makes Ludevic even worse because there is no point in which I would want to cast Ludevic, so he's just an emblem that says "If your commander has partner your color identity is also Red and Blue," and Opus fills that role better by doing the same thing PLUS being a playable creature
I have never played a Group Hugs deck before, but the Kings certainly make me want to play Group Hug. This is honestly the first commander that I'm genuinely excited to build around.
Oohh people don't understand Ludevic, he is not a worse Edric, edric can't partner anyone, you have acces to his opus, you have not only one extra card every game but an extra general, you can go voltron with opus and do other stuff with ludevic. I think that wizards overstimated the players capacitiy to grasp that having two commanders requires balance. Anyways when people actually start playing and winning games with partners they will realize what they were saying was an opinion in the vacuum.
There are people bashing partners overall. Personally I am not. I think it's a cool mechanic, and some of them are really cool. Silas is great. Kraum is fine. Kydele has a lot of potential. Tymna is quite strong. Ravos is also strong and cool. Tana isn't that powerful but she's cool. Reyhan is great. Ishai is kinda boring but seems like it'll be a big dumb flyer at least.
The RW legends are bad and boring - when the better of the two is an almost exact retread of last years second-lamest commander, you're not doing well, but I guess he's decent with a partner even if he's super boring. vial smasher is dumb but I guess some people like that sort of thing, and he's not quite BAD. Sidar is pretty weak but he does synergize with some of the other commanders, and in some groups maybe it'll make everyone else kill each other, who knows.
But Ludevic...holy balls. I would rather have nothing in play than Ludevic. It doesn't matter who you partner with him. He's almost exactly as bad as having no partner at all.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
To clarify why we have requested that the Gay kings not be used , it's because the Moderating team (which includes several mods who identify in the LGBTQIA spectrum) feels that feel that it can be taken negatively in the wrong context. This is not an attempt to deny what they are, just that that specific term is unfortunately loaded and it's better in general if we avoid misunderstandings
It's a rule in our playgroup, which is casual, to kill the Grouphug player first. I actually hate those kind of decks with a passion. If Kyanios and Tiro's effect had been on a random, non-gay, non-Theros legend, I would not have bothered to even comment on it, let alone run it. I'm disappointed they were designed as Group-Hug frankly, and was from the beginning. But not enough that it overshadows my joy at having Theros-themed homosexual male couple with beautiful art right out of the Theros myths about the Guardians of Meletis. This product is, ultimately, geared toward Vorthos and is a home run in that regard; and I am foremost a Vorthos after all. But yes, I am sorely disappointed in their effects, which aren't tactical and are exactly contrary to my play style or a reasonable play style. Group Hug to me is off-the-wall and for an old quirky legend like the flying hippo that just happens to be an awkward, amusing old card. It's not something to implement on a fresh, new, highly-sought and thematic card like Gay Kings. That's why I'm upset with their effect.
Regardless, they're too awesome not to play. So my intention is to make them my main Commander and let them simply happen to be Group-Hug by circumstance, but play whatever else I want in the deck and ignore their effect. At least it's an additional draw I suppose. I'm just sad because my Theros Enchantment deck, which is my main deck and centered around Theros Soldiers, Thassa and Heliod (with a Jace and Venser sub-theme) has Ephara as the General who makes the most sense with the deck. It's heavy on Creatures and she rewards this by drawing me cards. Thematically she represents building a Polis and rewarding its residents for having solidarity - cast creatures, and your god bolsters your resources. Flavorfully and mechanically, Ephara is the perfect General for that deck, and she benefits exclusively me and my play style. It feels wrong booting her into the 99 for a Group-Hug general that I ADORE in every way but is horrible and out of place for me mechanically. But I love Gay Kings as one of my absolute favorite cards so I must.
While I agree with the rest of your post, I have to point this out since poor phelddagrif has really taken a bashing today: Phelddy is not group hug. Group hug helps everyone, regardless of whether they're stuck on 2 lands and at 5 life, or if they've got 20 lands and 5 infinite combos in hand. That's why it (imo) sucks. Phelddagrif does help opponents, but he helps SPECIFIC opponents (or no opponents, if desired), so you can keep a (temporary) ally in the game long enough to help defeat the leader, or offer opponents rewards for making the plays you want. I'd call that sort of effect "political" not "hug".
Speaking as someone who's made, what, 5 phelddagrif decks now And I always play to win. You'll never feel as devious as when you coerce the whole table to do your bidding while you hide behind a derpy hippo.
I've actually never read the card. I just associate it with GroupHug and loathe it. But I also don't like playing into politics either. In fact, I just build up my resources quietly and peacefully and retaliate when appropriate. Usually relentlessly. If someone has an Eldrazi in play they draw my ire for example. So in a way, Tiro can still be salvaged as a card for my play strategy by drawing away hate toward me while still allowing the draw that Ephara might have, with admittedly less flexibility and diversity of plays. IDK if I will be able to surrender the drawing for Flash creatures and token generation though, since I loved finding ways to profit off Ephara on other turns. I may end up having to build an entirely separate deck for these guys, sadly. I say sadly because I have so many decks and I was hoping to consolidate more of them with these 4-color Legends. But I've grown attached to their unique play styles and themes.
It's difficult to get around the prospect of Tiro allowing opponents to ramp. That can be scary.
Flavorwise: at first I was thinking K&T represented a step forward as far as putting homosexual relationships on an equal footing with hetero ones. But come to think of it, while I believe there have been hetero relationships depicted, I can't remember one coming in the form of a legendary creature. Pia and Kiran Nalaar for example and Gisa and Geralf are each brother and sister pairs, right? Interesting.
Anyway, Ludevic doesn't look too good and K&T aren't really competitive but I still think it'd be fun to run them as a commander for those of us not using Zedruu the Greathearted
already.
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Flavorwise: at first I was thinking K&T represented a step forward as far as putting homosexual relationships on an equal footing with hetero ones. But come to think of it, while I believe there have been hetero relationships depicted, I can't remember one coming in the form of a legendary creature. Pia and Kiran Nalaar for example and Gisa and Geralf are each brother and sister pairs, right? Interesting.
Anyway, Ludevic doesn't look too good and K&T aren't really competitive but I still think it'd be fun to run them as a commander for those of us not using Zedruu the Greathearted
already.
Edit: Nvm. Pia and Kiran were married...
In addition to Pia and Kiran, Anax and Cymede are another royal couple from the same plane. Gisa and Geralf are the unusual ones; the OG two-person legendary Tibor and Lumia are also a couple.
One thought on Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis (OT: Why did they need "of Meletis"??? Absurdly long name) is that they're mostly an upgrade on Kami of the Crescent Moon (in exchange for +2 mana and being more color-intensive to cast), which definitely sees play as a commander in decks that are not at all group hug. So I think they have real potential; they just need the right person who sees them as a control-oriented general (countermagic + turbofog with an Owling Mine flair, e.g.).
Flavorwise: at first I was thinking K&T represented a step forward as far as putting homosexual relationships on an equal footing with hetero ones. But come to think of it, while I believe there have been hetero relationships depicted, I can't remember one coming in the form of a legendary creature. Pia and Kiran Nalaar for example and Gisa and Geralf are each brother and sister pairs, right? Interesting.
Anyway, Ludevic doesn't look too good and K&T aren't really competitive but I still think it'd be fun to run them as a commander for those of us not using Zedruu the Greathearted
already.
It's clearly a Simic effect, arguably given a whitish feel by the group-hug aspect.
There's no red.
For their second try at four-color, there needed to be a reason for all four colors.
Reckless card drawing/looting effects are Izzet. Donate is both blue and red with Harmless Offering. From a lore perspective, most couples tend to be red in Magic. Equally, considering we don't know their total history either as one could be Akroan originally.
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():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Life is a beautiful engineer, yet a brutal scientist.
Flavorwise: at first I was thinking K&T represented a step forward as far as putting homosexual relationships on an equal footing with hetero ones. But come to think of it, while I believe there have been hetero relationships depicted, I can't remember one coming in the form of a legendary creature. Pia and Kiran Nalaar for example and Gisa and Geralf are each brother and sister pairs, right? Interesting.
Anyway, Ludevic doesn't look too good and K&T aren't really competitive but I still think it'd be fun to run them as a commander for those of us not using Zedruu the Greathearted
already.
It's clearly a Simic effect, arguably given a whitish feel by the group-hug aspect.
There's no red.
For their second try at four-color, there needed to be a reason for all four colors.
Reckless card drawing/looting effects are Izzet. Donate is both blue and red with Harmless Offering. From a lore perspective, most couples tend to be red in Magic. Equally, considering we don't know their total history either as one could be Akroan originally.
Yep, I suspected Akroan as well. If you think about it, their colors are all the Human cities in Theros.
UW - Meletis
GW - Setessa
RW - Akros
I am gay. And I am not happy that this forum follows such a small-minded agenda regarding a loose und unserious nick name for Kyanios and Tiro of Meletis.
I posted the card image to many people on facebook, many gay friends that know magic only on a very basic level, but they were all very pleased about the card and even there we talked about them as g** kings.
I argue that threatening people with forum bannings is too excessive in this case.
Wizards of the Coast decided to focus on them being kings and being gay - lore wise. That included not only the Commander 2016 card, but also Guardians of Meletis. If they don't provide more context, then I think it's only logical to refer to them as that...
Here here. They are indeed homosexual monarchs. Such absurd behavior from the mods is actually reductive and insulting. Further, it paradoxically undermines the inclusiveness that Wizards is trying to promote here. I'm a huge supporter of their effort to include so many disparate demographics, but at the same time, we need to take off the kid gloves, white knight blinders or what have you, because you're not doing the gay community any favors by taking a stand against appropriate adjectives and nouns. They are gay. They are kings. Ergo...
Save the ban threats for the actual hate speech.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Can you name all of the creature types with at least 20 cards? Try my Sporcle Quiz! Last Updated: 6/29/20 (Core Set 2021).
I love how Parting Thoughts' flavor text completely summarizes like 80% of the people that asked for a Ludevic Legend.
Not saying it's unplayable crap like some, but it really does not feels how Ludevic should be portrayed. I was hyped when I saw Ludevic... but then once I fully comprehended what its effect did... ugh. Was it too hard to just make "took damage" instead of "lost life"? Well, it's still pretty much a Howling Mine on a stick in the right deck, and that's not completely terrible.
He does feels, however, like a combo piece missing his better half. What could we pair him with? Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix doesn't does much because the extra draw is on the end step. Vial Smasher the Fierce seems cute, as Ludevic reloads Vial Smasher and Vial Smasher provides the necessary damage for endstep draw... but ultimately, nothing groundbreaking. Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa lets you bypass enemy blockers and further incentives opponents into hitting each other, but doesn't sounds like something salvageable in a deck, unless it's some weird Weenie Aggro slash Group Hug and that is probably done better on Gahiji, Honored One.
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
Does anyone else want the two kings to be separate legendary creatures with..........wait for it...........PARTNER??!? The artwork could have been younger versions of the characters looking across the horizon yearning for each other. Then, they could have a joint three-colored card (GWB) later in a Theros revisit. (No red since the war would be over.) Such potential, but the card is sweet though.
The existence of Opus makes Ludevic even worse because there is no point in which I would want to cast Ludevic, so he's just an emblem that says "If your commander has partner your color identity is also Red and Blue," and Opus fills that role better by doing the same thing PLUS being a playable creature
ok takes all ogres but one
its just that i realized ogre tribal may become a reality now
"There are no two words in the English language more harmful than 'good job'." -Terrance Fletcher, Whiplash (2014)
The RW legends are bad and boring - when the better of the two is an almost exact retread of last years second-lamest commander, you're not doing well, but I guess he's decent with a partner even if he's super boring. vial smasher is dumb but I guess some people like that sort of thing, and he's not quite BAD. Sidar is pretty weak but he does synergize with some of the other commanders, and in some groups maybe it'll make everyone else kill each other, who knows.
But Ludevic...holy balls. I would rather have nothing in play than Ludevic. It doesn't matter who you partner with him. He's almost exactly as bad as having no partner at all.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
but these guys (all 5) might be my colored ones
With capes as awesome as those, how can you not?
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
To clarify why we have requested that the Gay kings not be used , it's because the Moderating team (which includes several mods who identify in the LGBTQIA spectrum) feels that feel that it can be taken negatively in the wrong context. This is not an attempt to deny what they are, just that that specific term is unfortunately loaded and it's better in general if we avoid misunderstandings
It's difficult to get around the prospect of Tiro allowing opponents to ramp. That can be scary.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
The effect is fine too, because they'll either give you two cards, or a card and a land.
Fan of Both old and new Slivers (But the new ones are still better anyway)
C Call of Emrakul - G vs R DD: Elves vs. Goblins - W vs B DD: Divine vs. Demonic - WUB Esper Artifice - RGW Aura Dancers
WUBRG Wrath of the Reaper King - WB Men of Faith - B Mercenaries - UB Phyrexian Assault 2.0 - WU Artifacts of Empires
BR Skeleton Warriors - RG Night of The Howlpack - B Bog Murderers - BR Eldrazi Assault - BGU Ulamog's Swarm
Only opponents get to draw on the secondary effect, so K+T's controller doesn't get the second card if they don't have a land
Anyway, Ludevic doesn't look too good and K&T aren't really competitive but I still think it'd be fun to run them as a commander for those of us not using Zedruu the Greathearted
already.
Edit: Nvm. Pia and Kiran were married...
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
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The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
It's clearly a Simic effect, arguably given a whitish feel by the group-hug aspect.
There's no red.
For their second try at four-color, there needed to be a reason for all four colors.
Rafiq of the Many
Kruphix, God of Horizons ~ Geist of Saint Traft ~ Trostani, Selesnya's Voice
Omnath, Locus of Mana ~ Patron of the Moon ~ Mangara of Corondor
~ W ~ ~ G ~ ~ U ~
In addition to Pia and Kiran, Anax and Cymede are another royal couple from the same plane. Gisa and Geralf are the unusual ones; the OG two-person legendary Tibor and Lumia are also a couple.
Anax and Cymede
Reckless card drawing/looting effects are Izzet. Donate is both blue and red with Harmless Offering. From a lore perspective, most couples tend to be red in Magic. Equally, considering we don't know their total history either as one could be Akroan originally.
Modern
Commander
Cube
<a href="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-lists/588020-unpowered-themed-enchantment-an-enchanted-evening">An Enchanted Evening Cube </a>
UW - Meletis
GW - Setessa
RW - Akros
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Here here. They are indeed homosexual monarchs. Such absurd behavior from the mods is actually reductive and insulting. Further, it paradoxically undermines the inclusiveness that Wizards is trying to promote here. I'm a huge supporter of their effort to include so many disparate demographics, but at the same time, we need to take off the kid gloves, white knight blinders or what have you, because you're not doing the gay community any favors by taking a stand against appropriate adjectives and nouns. They are gay. They are kings. Ergo...
Save the ban threats for the actual hate speech.
My 720 Peasant Cube
Not saying it's unplayable crap like some, but it really does not feels how Ludevic should be portrayed. I was hyped when I saw Ludevic... but then once I fully comprehended what its effect did... ugh. Was it too hard to just make "took damage" instead of "lost life"? Well, it's still pretty much a Howling Mine on a stick in the right deck, and that's not completely terrible.
He does feels, however, like a combo piece missing his better half. What could we pair him with? Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix doesn't does much because the extra draw is on the end step. Vial Smasher the Fierce seems cute, as Ludevic reloads Vial Smasher and Vial Smasher provides the necessary damage for endstep draw... but ultimately, nothing groundbreaking. Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa lets you bypass enemy blockers and further incentives opponents into hitting each other, but doesn't sounds like something salvageable in a deck, unless it's some weird Weenie Aggro slash Group Hug and that is probably done better on Gahiji, Honored One.
Isn't he supposed to be a pretty boss Necro-Alchemist, who Geralf respects? You'd assume Dimir colors too.
"OH GOD MY BRAIN IS EXPLOADING AT HOW BAD THE ART IS ON MY OWN CARD"
-A friend's first impression of Ancestral Recall
10/10, I tapped.
Thanks to XenoNinja at Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig.